
IRM – Iskcon Revival Movement
To the Editor,
prabhupadanugas.eu
What is the IRM?
Is IRM, Shriman Krishna Kanth co-operating with the prabhupadanugas.eu ?
I have seen that prabhupadanugas.eu are co-operating with Bangalore temple management and other Ritvik temples but I haven’t seen at all any affiliation of Shriman Krishna Kanth with this web site organizers and other Ritvik temples around the world.
Can some body please describe what is going on ?
Thank you. Hari BOL.
Amar Puri
Hare Krishna dear Amar Puri Prabhu,
please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you very much for your question and enquiries concerning the IRM and our website prabhupadanugas.eu
We like to take this chance to explicitly thank you first for your active contribution and frequently commenting on our published articles, which we really appreciate.
Concerning the prabhupadanugas.eu – it was established in 2008 by direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada from the first generation, and it is continued till today by Srila Prabhupada’s disciples of the second generation.
Prabhupadanugas.eu is independent and not affiliated with any other group or organisation such as the IRM or others. We are only affiliated with Srila Prabhupada
Although there are different Prabhupadanuga groups, the Prabhupada-anuga devotees generally maintain, that Srila Prabhupada is still available through his books and instructions (vani).
Prabhupadanugas promote Srila Prabhupada as the bonafide Guru of ISKCON and accept the Ritvik system established by Srila Prabhupada in his letter of July 9th.
Long before the IRM (Iskcon Revival Movement) was established, there already was a big group of Prabhupadanuga devotees, trying to bring back Srila Prabhupada to the center of ISKCON, which had been hijacked by so-called (false) “successor acaryas“, known as the “IskCon Zonal Acarya Hoax“.
It seems that some people focus on that IRM as representing all Prabhupadanugas – this is not true. Krishnakant Desai (of IRM) is NOT co-operating with prabhupananugas.eu and is NOT co-operating with the Bangalore temple, nor does he co-operate with anyone else. Krishnakant has his own agenda and his own interpretation of the “Guru Issue” which is not necessarily shared by other devotees.
The following websites give a more detailed account about the IRM:
http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/black/irm.htm
http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/black/irm-2.htm
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-06/editorials1062.htm
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-06/editorials1044.htm
In order to remind about Srila Prabhupada’s true instructions, and to counteract the bogus IskCon so-called “successor” gurus, the project prabhupadanugas.eu was established, as independent website.
Besides simply reminding about Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, we are trying to connect Prabhupadanuga devotees worldwide, and we are trying to point new visitors to existing Prabhupadanuga temples or projects all over the world, because most of these new people need practical example and guidance, and we are trying to show that Srila Prabhupada is still available for everyone.
The purpose of prabhupadanugas.eu is to attract people to Srila Prabhupada and his true teachings, and by this we want to attract them to Sri Krishna. So we accordingly place advertisement banners and web links to other Prabhupadanuga temples and projects, although we are not officially affiliated with them.
Prabhupadanugas.eu is advertising the Bangalore temple, because it is the only bonafide temple (at the moment) following Srila Prabhupada’s instruction on initiation, outlined in his letter of July 9th. The Bangalore temple is so to say a “Prabhupadanuga temple” with Srila Prabhupada in the centre, where only Srila Prabhupada is worshiped, not submitting to IskCon’s bogus so-called “successor-gurus”.
Hare Krishna, Your servant
webmaster prabhupadanugas.eu
——-
From Amar Puri: Thank you very much Prabhu – webmaster prabhupadanugas.eu for your kind information.
I am so deeply indebted to all of you at the prabhupadanugas.eu for the best service in contribution to Srila Prabhupada’s mission world wide and my little – insignificant contribution of writing my insight on your web site keeps me thinking in the service of HDG. Srila Prabhupada’s mission for which I offer my best thanks for your wonderful service.
May our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada empower you more and more for this great service.
Hari BOL.
YS…….. Amar Puri.
We see that when some one is power hungry, wants to be a controller without being controlled – rendering selfless service, the contaminants of all sorts i.e. Labha, Puja and Prathistha etc. prevail very subtly without being noticed by such personality.
That is itself a down fall in the practise of cultivating Spiritual Life.
Another words, one is not practising what ones preaches.
OM TAT SAT.
I am also an ardent follower of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, but I don’t call myself a ‘Prabhupadanuga’ who came up with this term? The word Prabhupada is not a name but title which is also applied to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati and Srila Thakur Bhaktivinode. This word as far as I know is a concoction which does not appear anywhere in the Vedic literatures as far as I understand.
Also as Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is here no longer in his vapu form it is not possible for any temples or centres to be run according to “how he wanted it” they can only be run according to how the person/or persons running the facility ‘interpret’ those instructions. This is very problematic as everyone interprets those instructions according to their own limited capacity.
The third point I would like to make is that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada did not write ‘The Science of Collective Realization’ but ‘The Science of Self Realization’. Self realization is not (by definition) a collective process but an individual one and does not require consensus.
About the word ‘Prabhupadanuga’ or ‘Prabhupada-anuga’:
His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami allowed his own disciples to call him ‘Prabhupada’. ‘Anuga’ means ‘following’. So the translation of ‘Prabhupadanuga’ means ‘following Srila Prabhupada’, and that term can be used in this matter.
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdvO0jcuQ_M
It has been made popular by the early Prabhupadanugas like PADA. ‘Prabhupadanuga’ is similar to ‘Rupanuga’ or ‘Rupa-anuga’, which means ‘following Srila Rupa Goswami’. Of course you are free to choose the term ‘Prabhupadanuga’ for yourself or not, whatever you like better. The main thing for your spiritual success is to simply follow Srila Prabhupada’s divine instructions.
Srila Prabhupada is no longer present in his bodily vapu form since 1977, but he is still present in his much more important vani form (his books and instructions). To run a temple “how he wanted it” is possible simply by following Srila Prabhupada’s instruction on initiation, outlined in his letter from July 9th, which the Iskcon Bangalore Temple does.
Thank you for mentioning Srila Prabhupada’s book “The Science of Self Realization”. It can be read online at http://www.prabhupadabooks.com
For newer readers, we also have a special essential article collection online.
Your servant
webmaster prabhupadanugas.eu
It appears from Sudarsana Das Vanacari writing ; ” I am also an ardent follower of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, but I don’t call myself a ‘Prabhupadanuga’…………” that he does not read and know from Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions.
Therefore, how some one like Sudarsana Das Vanacari can say that he is also an ardent follower of Srila Prabhupada when he writes such things ; ” Also as Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is here no longer in his vapu form ………. ”
This type of contradictions are very deceptive and misleading and thus, do not represent some one following Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions which is very clear from the message.
It seems that Sudarsana Das Vanacari is indeed following some one physically “living” guru out there.
I wonder who is that ? Only Sudarsana Das Vanacari can explain it.
Hari BOL.
“Prabhupada’ is the official title of His Divine Grace A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, given to him after several
successful years of preaching for Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati’s
mission.”
Sneaky fellow this ritvik webmaster. He says someone gave
the title ‘Prabhupada’ to Srila Prabhupada officially but didn’t
bother to mention who that person was. Is it because no one
actually gave the title officially to Srila Prabhupada but it started
with his disciples fondly calling him so and he just accepted it.
[offtopic deleted]
HARE KRSNA
SG is right, I confused “Bhaktivedanta” with “Prabhupada” because I was in a hurry. Corrected, thank you.
Your humble sneaky fellow
webmaster prabhupadanugas.eu
His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada explains in the Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 12.9 purport:
“When disciples do not stick to the principle of accepting the order of their spiritual master, immediately there are two opinions. Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. There is no scope for adjusting spiritual advancement to material ideas.”
It is explained further in the c.c. Adi 12.10:
acaryera mata yei, sei mata sara
tanra ajna langhi’ cale, sei ta’ asara
“The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes useless.
Here is the opinion of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami – Purport ;
” Persons who strictly follow the orders of the spiritual master are useful in executing the will of the Supreme, whereas persons who deviate from the strict order of the spiritual master are useless.”
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Hari BOL.
Such usual writing from SG ; ” Sneaky fellow this ritvik webmaster.” demonstrates that how he not only disregards ritivik system but also shows his anger when addressing with the word ” ritvik ” webmaster without ever, ever, ever, never giving any sensible reason of his such relentless writing against the ritivik system of initiation from the point of view of the Sastras let alone accepting Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions of Ritivik Inititation in His world wide Organization of Iskcon as per July 9th directive.
I am not surprised of it IF SG is accepting Srila Prabhupada Instructions – VANI at all.
Jai Srila Prabhupada.
In reply to Amar Puri Das……..I am not in the habit of explaining myself to antagonistic persons who make false assumptions about me. If you want to use Srila Prabhupada’s words like ‘battering ram’ to feed you own false ego you will no doubt be ignored by many people in your life.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari says: This word [Prabhupadanuga], as far as I know, is a concoction which does not appear anywhere in the Vedic literatures as far as I understand.
This is pure silliness. Whoever came up with the term, “Prabhupadanuga” was right on target. I myself came up with the term, “Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry” in 1973. Did Srila Prabhupada ever say that the “Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry” terminology is an “unwanted concoction which does not appear in any Vedic literatures?” Of course not! Using our God-given intelligence in the service of God is what Prabhupada wants us to do!
There are different varieties of people out there who enjoys to defend what they conceive through their imperfect senses and offend others what they perceive with their imperfect senses as well. That is why a wise person takes the shelter of the Instructions coming from the authorized perfect source. That such source is the Vani of HDG. Srila Prabhbupada to which serious and sincere people accept it as it is.
As for Sudarsana Das Vanacari, your own comments in your writing contradicts as is pointed out for your further explanation to which you reply as antagonistic making false assumptions about you. You chose not to explain out of your free will indicates that you are hiding behind the contradiction what you believe in.
By using Srila Prabhupada’s words the selfless ego feels satisfactory because it is authoritative.
Being yourself as ardent follower of Srila Prabhupada and simultaneously rejecting Srila Prabhupada’s presence in His VANI by saying ; ” Also as Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is here no longer in his vapu form ………. ” certainly does not satisfy your false EGO, Sudarsana Das Vanacari or does it ???????
That is why I ask for clarification in my writing ; ” It seems that Sudarsana Das Vanacari is indeed following some one physically “living” guru out there. I wonder who is that ? Only Sudarsana Das Vanacari can explain it.”
OM TAT SAT.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada’s guru maharaja (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta) was also called Prabhupada but (the former) did not refer to himself as a ‘Prabhupadanuga’. It is only for that reason I don’t use that term, but hey! I don’t have a problem with it. It’s not really any point of contention for me, there are other issues that require more urgent attention. Thank you for those points you have mentioned. I never said that it was an ‘unwanted’ concoction however, perhaps the word ‘concoction’ I used implies a negative element, though this is unintended. Srila Prabhupada ‘concocted’ (if you like) many words like demoncrazy (democracy) etc much to the great pleasure of the devotees, so I take a lighthearted view regarding these things.
Regarding Amar Puri Das’s comment.
Prabhu you are drawing a “false” conclusion based on a so called “contradiction” which does not exist!
Sudarsana Das please explain your position as to why did you write in your comments : ” you are an ardent follower of Srila Prabhupada and yet you write further rejecting the presence of Srila Prabhupada in His VANI by saying ; ” Also as Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is here no longer in his vapu form ………. ” ????
Why are you not answering the questions I put forth to you to prove my false conclusion of ” contradiction ” to which you are refusing to accept it ?
Why don’t you reveal who is your physical “living” guru who advises you that Srila Prabhupada is not present in His VANI and as a result of it you are rejecting to accept the presence of Srila Prabhupada in His VANI ?
Hope you do answer all these above mentioned questions Sudarsana Das Vanacari for which I look forward to hear from you.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada News says:
6. January 2014 at 8:12 pm
“Corrected, thank you.”
You are welcome, webmaster. Your honesty and correction
on this matter is appreciated.
As for ” rejecting to accept the presence of Srila Prabhupada
in His VANI ?”. – Ritviks
It is said that Sri Krsna, His name, His form, His words are
non different from Sri Krsna himself. We can understand
and accept that because He is said to be omnipresent beside
being omniscient and omnipotent.
Can we say the same for Srila Prabhupada ?. Does a spiritual
master who is said to be as good as God comprises of these
three omni qualities also?. Is the spiritual master God?
Has Srila Prabhupada ever claimed himself to be so? Have
the ritviks become delusional?
HARE KRSNA
Dear SG,
just as side note:
Of course I don’t know about your spiritual background and your personal (bad?) experiences, and I don’t know which Guru you have accepted. But I get the feeling that your comments tend to show some basic misunderstandings, like repeatedly using your favourite term “the ritviks” which shows that you don’t even know what a “ritvik” exactly is, but nevertheless you are using it and trying to “brandmark” other devotees, for whatever reason that I don’t know.
Personally you can call me whatever you like, I don’t care at all, but please note that this website is only meant for positively enlightening other devotees in their Krishna consciousness (stated above in this website as article), so we are trying to only publish comments or content which we consider to be helpful in this regard.
So in the future please kindly restrain yourself from writing “the ritviks” in almost all of your comments – for others it only shows a lack of understanding. I humbly suggest to get some proper information about this term first. Thank you.
Regarding your question “Is the spiritual master God?”:
The proper answer in detail would be an own article at least. The short answer is: An authorized spiritual master is not God, but is considered to be as good as God, because the authorized spiritual master is His representative, authorized by the Guru parampara coming from God Himself.
Your servant
webmaster prabhupadanugas.eu
Dear Amar Puri Das
Firstly, in hindsight, describing myself as ‘ardent follower’ was perhaps not a good choice of words as It sounds rather conceited……so lets just say I am endeavouring to obtain the mercy of Srila Prabhupada and vaisnavas. (that’s what happens when to post a comment within a short time restraint……It becomes “etched in the granite of cyberspace.)
I don’t know how you drew the ‘mistaken conclusion’ that…….. ”I am rejecting the presence of Srila Prabhupada in his vani” ………..because I stated that Srila Prabhupada is no longer here in his vapu form.
I do not have diksa guru (other than those I have already rejected) alive or departed other than Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada saved us all. When there is some adversity in my life, I think of what “seemingly overwhelming” adversity Srila Prabhupada had to endure and I am filled with admiration and awe, making my own troubles pale into insignificance. Srila Prabhupada is always present in spirit. When I listen to Srila Prabhupdas bhajan, how can I not be overwhelmed with emotion and love always sure that he is in my heart and guiding me.
A few years ago I had some connection with the Narayana Swami group and took harinam (again). As with ISKCON GBC (who I have been fighting since mid 90s) This was (and remains) toxic in it’s hypocrisy of Srila Prabhupada’s true position. The “sugar coating” can be quite seductive, but at it’s core is just a malignant tumor, a physical manifestation of deep-seated, and ”almost” concealed envy of Srila Prabhupada.
What really set off the ‘alarm bells’ for me was when Kirtananda visited Narayana Swami and the latter welcomed him and permitted him to speak “Krishna Katha” in front of the assembled devotees. I was not present, but how anyone thinking they had any semblance of devotion could have stayed and listened to this “serial killer and paedophile” is beyond my comprehension. A strong dose of poison delivered there.
Bisikisena was a “boy scout” compared to this guy Kirtananda yet in stark contrast the powerful and supremely righteous Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur had Bisikisena unceremoniously, rounded up (by police) in chains like a dog and thrown in jail (much to the displeasure of his foolish, misguided followers)
This is REAL humility, not becoming sanctimonious and posturing hypocrite, this is real power!
What a tangled web we weave, when we decide to deceive.
Wishing you well, vaisnava dasanudas
SG has some problem with, “rejecting to accept the presence of Srila Prabhupada
in His VANI ?”. By implying that by doing so this is giving Prabhupada, God status.
He is forgetting that Prabhupada has also stated similar (C.C. (1975 Ed) Adi 1.35 ) ….
btw;
Instructions tend to manifest in the form of words.
SG: It is said that Sri Krsna, His name, His form, His words are
non different from Sri Krsna himself. We can understand
and accept that because He is said to be omnipresent beside
being omniscient and omnipotent.
Can we say the same for Srila Prabhupada ?. Does a spiritual
master who is said to be as good as God comprises of these
three omni qualities also?. Is the spiritual master God?
Has Srila Prabhupada ever claimed himself to be so? Have
the ritviks become delusional?
Mahesh: Anti Ritvik means Anti Prabhupada. They do NOT ACTUALLY WANT Srila Prabhupada. They HAVE VESTED INTEREST TO KEEP THE MONEY SCREWING AND SLAVERY MAKING GOING IN ISKCON in the name of Diksa Guru BUSINESS:
Bhaktivedanta Manor Accounts SALARIES
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=38907#comment-24810
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends49/0000259649_ac_20111231_e_c.pdf
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The CONDITIONED SOULS factory manufactured by the bogus GBC as “Diksa guru” are JACKALS whereas the Srila Prabhupada is THE BONAFIDE DIKSA GURU who as REPRESENTATIVE OF LORD KRSNA (THE MASTER OF MYSTICS BG18.78) has the POWER TO BE PRESENT WHEREVER LORD KRSNA DESIRES AND WHATEVER LORD KRSNA WANTS HIM TO KNOW:
Letter to: Tusta Krsna
Ahmedabad
14 December, 1972
As for your next question, can only a few pure devotees deliver others, anyone, if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become spiritual master. But unless he on that platform he should not attempt it. Then both of them will to go to hell, like blind men leading the blind.
NEXT YOU ASK IF I AM PRESENT IN MY PICTURE AND FORM? YES. IN FORM AS WELL AS IN TEACHINGS. TO CARRY OUT THE TEACHINGS OF GURU IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN TO WORSHIP THE FORM, BUT NONE OF THEM SHOULD BE NEGLECTED. FORM IS CALLED VAPU AND TEACHINGS IS CALLED VANI. BOTH SHOULD BE WORSHIPED. VANI IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN VAPU.
Morning Walk—
June 8, 1976, Los Angeles
Bharadvāja: I understand, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the pure devotee can be as pervasive as Supersoul?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bharadvāja: By the mercy of Supersoul, he can be present in many places at once?
Prabhupāda: Yes. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, a devotee can become anything.
Duryodhana-guru: So in other words that means the pure devotees can be omniscient?
Prabhupāda: Everything. God is omniscient, so a pure devotee can become omniscient by the grace of God.
C.C. (1975 Ed) Adi 1.35
“There is no difference between the spiritual masters instructions and the spiritual master himself. “
Note: Srila Prabhupada is PRESENT IN BOTH HIS PICTURE AND HIS VANI – So WHEREVER there is the PRESENCE of Srila Prabhupada in this way he will ALWAYS BE WITH US AS OUR BONAFIDE SPIRITUAL MASTER GUIDING US THRU THIS DIFFICULT JOURNEY BACK HOME BACK TO GODHEAD MANY LIFE TIMES JANME JANME PRABHU SEI( BIRTH AFTER BIRTH HE IS OUR SPIRITUAL MASTER)
Note: the POWER of Srila Prabhupada as BONAFIDE Diksa guru is given BY LORD Krsna. So WHATEVER AND WHEREVER Lord Krsna DESIRES His Representative Srila Prabhupada to KNOW and to BE PRESENT is arranged by Lord Krsna THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD. It does NOT mean that Srila Prabhupada is OMNICIENT GOD but it simply means that Lord Krsna as MASTER OF MYSTICS(SEE BG 18.78) CAN ARRANGE for Srila Prabhupada to be PRESENT IN HIS PICTURE AS WELL AS HIS VANI——- FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS TO COME.
Morning Walk—
April 8, 1975, Māyāpur
Jayādvaita: Because we see… For instance, sometimes the ācārya may seem to forget something or not to know something, so from our point of view, if someone has forgotten, that is…
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Then…
Jayādvaita: …an imperfection.
Prabhupāda: That is not the… Then you do not understand. Ācārya is not God, omniscient. He is servant of God. His business is to preach bhakti cult. That is ācārya.
Bhagavad-gita As It Is (1972) Bg 18.78
TEXT 78
yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo
yatra pārtho dhanur-dharaḥ
tatra śrīr vijayo bhūtir
dhruvā nītir matir mama
Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, EXTRAORDINARY POWER, and morality. That is my opinion.
Letter to: Malati
Allston, Mass
28 May, 1968
In the absolute world there is no distinction as me, or he, and I. Krishna and His representative is the same. Just like Krishna can be present simultaneously in millions of places. SIMILARLY, THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ALSO CAN BE PRESENT WHEREVER THE DISCIPLE WANTS. A Spiritual Master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in thousands of places by the principle of relay monitoring.
Morning Walk
At Cheviot Hills Golf Course
May 13, 1973, Los Angeles
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you are not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions, for example, on questions that may arise?
Prabhupāda: Well, the questions… Answers are there in my books.
Paramahaṁsa: Other than that, for example, that we would ask you in…
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Do you direct us also through the heart? Besides the Paramātmā?
Prabhupāda: IF YOUR HEART IS PURE. Everything depends on purity. Whether there. What is this? Sacrificial arena? (laughter)
Note CONDITIONED SOUL bogus “diksa gurus” manufactured by bogus GBC are JACKALS who have to be EXPOSED:
730503mw.la Conversations
Prabhupada: No, it is Sanskrit. And in Bengal it is called vane asiya raja.(?) “In the forest a jackal has become king.” They are like that. Nila-varna-srigalavat.(?) When… There is big story about this jackal. I will tell you some. A jackal came in the village and he fell in the tub where, what is called, the water? No, no. The water man keeps the water for dipping, making
little bluish. For coloring. That blue, blue. So the washerman kept the dye water in a big tub, and the jackal fell in it. So jackal fell in it; he became blue, all blue. So he fled away, and all the animals said, “What is this animal? What is the animal? What is that animal? Oh?” All, even lion became surprised. “We have not seen this.” “So who are you, sir?” “I AM SENT BY GOD TO RULE OVER YOU.” “OH?” SO THEY BEGAN TO WORSHIP HIM AS GOD, AS LEADER. Then one day other jackals, they were crying, “Wa, wa,” but the jackals cannot stop. If others jackals cry, the jackal cannot stop. So he also began to “Wa, wa.” Oh, then, they, oh, this rascal is a jackal. Yavat kincin na bhasate. That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that “Here is a jackal.” SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA. NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, ALL POLITICAL THINGS, SOCIAL THINGS, EVERYTHING. THEY SHOULD BE ALL KICKED OUT. THEY SHOULD BE REPLACED BY KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. THEN PEOPLE WILL BE HAPPY. THIS SHOULD BE OUR PROGRAM. Our, this propaganda means to make people happy. It is not a business, to make business and take some money. And so many jackals have been arrested and resigned in your… You know that? Many jackals have been obliged to resign their post in the government.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari says: ” ……..because I stated that Srila Prabhupada is no longer here in his vapu form ”
Certainly, the above writing indicates strongly that the writer does not accept the presence of Srila Prabhupada in His VANI as SG one of the distinguished guest on this web site rejects as well the presence of Srila Prabhupada in His VANI. That is why SG writes relentlessly against Srila Prabhupada’s July 9th directive.
Hope Sudarsana Das does see my point.
And yet Sudarsana Das further quotes ; ” I do not have diksa guru (other than those I have already rejected) alive or departed other than Srila Prabhupada. ”
Where is the problem to accept Srila Prabhupada as your Diksa Guru, and as a matter of fact the Jagat Guru of all of US ?
Do we not pray and sing ; ” cakhu-dan dilo jei, janme janme prabhu sei, divya-jnan hrde prokasito ……..” ?
Sudarsana Das writes ; ” What a tangled web we weave, when we decide to deceive.”
Yes indeed, I agree with it . Definitely in the ” We ” as per above mentioned quote, I am not included.
So people like SG, Rocana dasa an other author of DOR thesis mislead massive people and contradict with their respective concocted conception of interpretation of the Inititation Instructions of Srila Prabhupada.
That is why I ask you, Sudarsana Das to clarify your position.
Hope it meets well to the Readers.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Amar Puri Das, It’s ridiculous that you come to those conclusions. Your obviously one of those persons that is “hard work” and doesn’t listen to what is beying said, It’s all about what is coming out of your head. Why are you saying that I reject Srila Prabhupada;s Vani, that’s crazy. The Brahma Madhva Gaudyia Sampradaya is a siksa line NOT a diksa line. There are huge gaps in the sampradaya that is the obvious.
Srila Bhaktivinode’s diksa guru was a neophyte “kanistha adhikari” but Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur was a Vaisnava Acharya because of his siksa acceptance of Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji.
When the Acharya leaves this world (his physical presence no longer with us) there is chaos, which makes it more difficult to implement his instructions, this is obvious. That is why any temple which is beying formed can only function according to “how Srila Prabhupada’s instructions are “interpreted” by others. That is why such institution stand little chance of survival. This is further and conclusive proof…….
The church (spiritual institution, organised religion) that has the best chance of survival in this damned world is that of atheism in the guise of theism. The churches (temples) have always proved the staunchest upholders of the grossest form of worldliness from which even the worst of non-ecclesiastical criminals are found to recoil.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: Srila Bhaktivinode’s diksa guru was a neophyte “kanistha adhikari” but Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur was a Vaisnava Acharya because of his siksa acceptance of Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji.
Mahesh:
1) Srila Prabhupada does NOT mention Bhaktivinode Thakura’s “Diksa” guru BUT he does not need to as SRILA BHAKTIVINODE THAKURA IS ETERNAL ENERGY OF LORD SRI KRISHNA CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU. AND WHATEVER HE DID, WAS JUST TO SUIT THE TIME, PLACE, CIRCUMSTANCES, AND ETC
2) Diksa guru is NEVER a Kanistha: The QUALIFICATION for Diksa guru is Maha Bhagavata.
3) WHATEVER we want to learn of Bhaktivinode Thakura teachings is from SRILA PRABHUPADA not from concoctions from outside to suit ones personal agenda.
4) We have to pick up PROMINENT ACARYA and FOLLOW from HIM: Srila Prabhupada IS this CURRENT PROMINENT ACARYA.
68-11-20. Letter: Madhusudana
Regarding your questions, “I read in a book sent from India that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura was sent directly by Lord Sri Caitanya from the spiritual sky. I am not sure if the book was bona fide. Is the above true? Someone, a God-brother brought up that he heard that Srila Bhaktivinode was at one time an impersonalist. Was he ever?” Yes, what you have heard is all right. Just like Arjuna is constant companion of Krishna, as it is confirmed in the 4th chapter, Krishna says that both Arjuna and He appeared many times on this world, but he had forgotten his past appearance and Krishna did not. Krishna is like the sun, and maya is just like darkness. Where Krishna is present there cannot be any darkness of maya. So as Arjuna although always in the presence of Krishna as eternal companion in friendship, still he had some illusion in the battlefield of Kuruksetra, and Krishna had to dissipate that darkness by the teachings of Bhagavad-gita. The purport is, sometimes even a liberated person like Arjuna plays the part of a conditioned soul in order to play some important part. Similarly, Bhaktivinode Thakura for sometimes was associating with the impersonalists. And then he exhibited himself in his true color as pure devotee, exactly in the same way as Arjuna exhibited in the beginning as a conditioned soul, and then as a liberated soul. So there is nothing to be misunderstood in this connection. Krishna and His devotees sometimes play like that, as much as Lord Buddha although an incarnation of Krishna, preached the philosophy of voidism. These things are conducted in terms of place, audience, time, etc. In the Caitanya Caritamrta it is said that the activities of the Vaisnava cannot be understood even by the greatest scholar. So we have to understand everything through the transparent via media of the Spiritual Master. So there is no doubt about it that SRILA BHAKTIVINODE THAKURA IS ETERNAL ENERGY OF LORD SRI KRISHNA CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU. AND WHATEVER HE DID, WAS JUST TO SUIT THE TIME, PLACE, CIRCUMSTANCES, AND ETC. There is no contradiction in his activities. Yes, also, what you have learned about Sukadeva is correct. He stayed in the womb of his mother for 16 years because he was fixed on the Brahman conception, and then on hearing the Srimad-Bhagavatam, he became realized and decided to come out and be active in the service of the Lord, to enjoy blissful varieties.
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.))
Note The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION.
73-12-25.Letter: Gurukrpa , Yasodanandana
Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. THERE IS NO NEED WHATSOEVER FOR ANY OUTSIDE INSTRUCTION.
68-04-12. Letter: Dayananda
Regarding parampara system: THERE IS NOTHING TO WONDER FOR BIG GAPS. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYAS, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.
Dear Sudarsana Das Vanacari Prabhu,
All Glories to Srila Prabhuapada!
Please accept my humble obeisances.
I only read Srila Prabhupada’s words, and Srila Prabhupada has NEVER used the term “Siksa sampradaya”! Devotees of Gaudiya Math say Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya is a siksa line . Am I wrong ?
Hare Krsna,
ys marica
Wow ……… Sudarsana Das Vanacari is playing the games of defensive and offensive.
He defends what he writes is correct saying the readers have to go beyond his written statement to understand what he writes without any explanation of what he wants the readers to know further from his particular statement ; ” ,,,,,,,, Srila Prabhupada is no longer here in his vapu form ”, and yet he dares to offend the readers like myself when it is pointed out exactly what he has written by saying ;
” Amar Puri Das, It’s ridiculous that you come to those conclusions. Your obviously one of those persons that is “hard work” and doesn’t listen to what is beying said, It’s all about what is coming out of your head. Why are you saying that I reject Srila Prabhupada;s Vani, that’s crazy…………….. ”
Then he further writes in his comments ; ” Srila Bhaktivinode’s diksa guru was a neophyte “kanistha adhikari” but Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur was a Vaisnava Acharya because of his siksa acceptance of Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji. ”
From his statement above, it clearly indicates that his source of knowledge of understanding what he writes is not from Srila Prabhupada but from some where else. That is why he writes Srila Bhaktivinode’s diksa guru was a neophyte “kanistha adhikari ” where as Srila Prabhupada says in his writings that the Diksha Guru is situated on the topmost platform of devotional service which means Maha Bhagavata not a neophyte “kanishtha adhikari” as Sudarsana Das writes in his comments to mislead people.
That is why perhaps he wrote that ” ,,,,,,, Srila Prabhupada is no longer here in his vapu form ” in order to exhibit his hidden agenda of physical “living” guru.
I have no idea what is his agenda in writing such misleading statement on this public forum ?
OM TAT SAT.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Mahesh Raja….. Bipin Bihari Goswami was Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur’s diksa guru. He was NOT Mahabhagawat. This Idea in not correct. If he was Mahabhagavat why was Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur ‘rarely’ in his association? Why did Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur accept siksa from Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji? Why did Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati reject Bipin Bihari Goswami if he was indeed a Mahabhagawat? If Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya is linked by diksa and not siksa as you proclaim then why is Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji part of the guru varga and not Bipin Bihari Goswami? his diksa guru!
Dear Hunyadi Marica prabhu When we glorify Srila Prabhupada by singing the song ‘Sri Guru Carana Padma’ are those words Srila Prabhupada’s words? No they are the words of Srila Narottama Das Thakur. All of the previous acharyas have written so many books Srila Visvannatha Chakravati Thakur. Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur etc. and on it goes. Only purports and commentaries by Vaisnava Acharyas in our sampradaya are free from contamination and material influence.
Daso Smi
Amar Puri das. When we act above (or below) our realisation we are in the realm of Kali. The problem with ISKCON, Gaudiya Math is just that. You are obviously a young and inexperienced aspirant that has no grasp of Gaudiya Vaisnava traditions or understanding how to endear yourself to others and convey the message you are trying to convey. Perhaps you should read more books by the previous acaryas within our sampradaya. I am growing rather weary of your incessant ‘ranting’ and ‘accusing’ demeanour and almost maniacal false conclusions. The LAST paragraph of the last ‘comment’ I submitted beginning with ‘The Church’ was actually a quote (verbatim) by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur. If you entertain such delusional aspirations of becoming some sort of authoritative figure in a kind of future “Prabhupada said” Pol Pot regime then you will just become ‘another statistic’ like many in ISKCON and Gaudiya Math.
Sudarsana Das Vancari Prabu .
When I only read Srila Prabhupada’s words I actually read great Acaryas, Goswamis and Sri Caitanya Maháprabhu ‘s words.
This is the Srí Caitanya Caritamrta :).
Sudarsana Das Vanacari:: Why did Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati reject Bipin Bihari Goswami if he was indeed a Mahabhagawat?
Mahesh: You have already answered the point that “Bipin Bihari Goswami …He was NOT Mahabhagawat”
So as per Sastra he was rejected:
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.))
Note The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: Bihari Goswami was Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur’s diksa guru.
Mahesh: Just because Srila Bhakivinode Thakura played A PART that way did NOT mean he ACCEPTED
a CONDITIONED SOUL as his ACTUAL Diksa Guru besides HE WAS LIBERATED soul:
68-11-20. Letter: Madhusudana
The purport is, sometimes even a liberated person like Arjuna plays the part of a conditioned soul in order to play some important part. SIMILARLY, Bhaktivinode Thakura for sometimes was associating with the impersonalists. And then he exhibited himself in his true color as PURE devotee, EXACTLY in the same way as Arjuna exhibited in the beginning as a conditioned soul, and then as a liberated soul. So there is nothing to be misunderstood in this connection. Krishna and His devotees sometimes PLAY LIKE THAT , as much as Lord Buddha although an incarnation of Krishna, preached the philosophy of voidism. These things are conducted in terms of place, audience, time, etc. In the Caitanya Caritamrta it is said that the activities of the Vaisnava cannot be understood even by the greatest scholar. So we have to understand everything through the transparent via media of the Spiritual Master. So there is no doubt about it that SRILA BHAKTIVINODE THAKURA IS ETERNAL ENERGY OF LORD SRI KRISHNA CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU. AND WHATEVER HE DID, WAS JUST TO SUIT THE TIME, PLACE, CIRCUMSTANCES, AND ETC. There is no contradiction in his activities.
Note: MERE FORMALITY OF THROWING IN BANANA AND SESAME SEEDS IN FIRE SACRIFICE DOES NOT MAKE ONE A DIKSA GURU. Diksa guru IS a MAHA BHAGAVATA AND IT IS ONLY ON THAT PLATFORM ONE IS ABLE TO TRANSFER KRSNA INTO ANOTHERS HEART BY WHICH THE DISCIPLE UNDERSTANDS HIS CONSTITUTIONAL POSITON (SVARUPA) : DASYA, SAKHYA, MADURYA ETC SERVANT OF KRSNA.
KANISTHA IS INCAPABLE TO TRANSFER KRSNA INTO ANOTHERS HEART HENCE THERE IS NO REVELATION OF HIS SVARUPA. To put it simply when you are before the SUN you SEE THE SUN AND YOUR IDENTITY. When you SEE KRSNA in your HEART you SEE YOUR SVARUPA (constitutional position) as dasya(servant) sakhya (friendship) madurya (lover) with Krsna. THIS is WHY Kanistha is NOT Diksa guru.
Note: Diksa is illustrated graphically here(MAHA BHAGAVATA) Vasudeva was on Suddha sattva platform this is why from him Krsna is transferred to Devaki
SB 10.2.18 Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb:
Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was transferred from the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devaki. Devaki, having thus been initiated by Vasudeva, became beautiful by carrying Lord Krsna, the original consciousness for everyone, the cause of all causes, within the core of her heart, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.
PURPORT:
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was TRANSFERRED from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. UNLESS ONE IS INITIATED BY THE RIGHT PERSON, WHO ALWAYS CARRIES WITHIN HIS HEART THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, ONE CANNOT ACQUIRE THE POWER TO CARRY THE SUPREME GODHEAD WITHIN THE CORE OF ONE’S OWN HEART.
SB 8.5.29 P The Demigods Appeal to the Lord for Protection:
Sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam (Bhag. 4.3.23). In this material world, the three modes of material nature–goodness, passion and ignorance–prevail. Among these three, goodness is the platform of knowledge, and passion brings about a mixture of knowledge and ignorance, but the mode of ignorance is full of darkness. Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead is beyond darkness and passion. He is on the platform where goodness or knowledge is not disturbed by passion and ignorance. THIS IS CALLED THE VASUDEVA PLATFORM. IT IS ON THIS PLATFORM OF VASUDEVA THAT VASUDEVA, OR KRSNA, CAN APPEAR.
SB 5.3.20 P Rsabhadeva’ s Appearance in the Womb of Merudevi, the Wife of King Nabhi:
Lord Visnu descends in His suddha-sattva form. Suddha-sattva refers to the sattva-guna which is never contaminated. In this material world, even the mode of goodness (sattva-guna) is contaminated by tinges of rajo-guna and tamo-guna. WHEN SATTVA-GUNA IS NEVER CONTAMINATED BY RAJO-GUNA AND TAMO-GUNA, IT IS CALLED SUDDHA-SATTVA. SATTVAM VISUDDHAM VASUDEVA-SABDITAM (BHAG. 4.3.23). THAT IS THE PLATFORM OF VASUDEVA, WHEREBY THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, VASUDEVA, CAN BE EXPERIENCED.
Note: what we have in ISKCON circles is FORMALITY initiation taken as everything:
You will not find ONE quote to say Kanistha or even a Madhyam devotee can act as DIKSA guru.
THE STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES ARE INITIATED ACCORDING TO AUTHORIZED PANCARATRIKI REGULATIONS
There are two aspects in initiation:
1) Formality (Pancaratriki) – name giving ceremony etc
2) Diksa(Knowledge) – spiritual initiation received by Madhyama adhikari
As shown previously in my article”, the Ritvik ***Representative*** was to allow for the function of Formality. So a question may be raised, why formality?
The answer is very simple: the Diksa given to Madhyama adhikari is NOT a formality. Initiation offered to neophyte/Kanistha IS a Formality. THIS is the BIG difference.
In conformity with the establishment of the formality of a Ritvik System 9th July 1977, Srila Prabhupada’s signed directive to the society the Pancaratriki regulations were followed in this initiation. “THE STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES ARE INITIATED ACCORDING TO AUTHORIZED PANCARATRIKI REGULATIONS”
This is a general principle. However, A person who is liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as ‘guru’ and ‘acharya’ by strictly following the disciplic succession.
(Lecture 26th April, 1968. New York)
Whether one uses the terms OFFICIATING ACARYA OR RITVIK OR REPRESENTATIVE they mean the SAME ie to ACT ON BEHALF OF ACARYA. So this is act as “guru” and “Acarya”. They ACTING as OFFICIATING ACARYA OR RITVIK REPRESENTATIVE OF ACARYA. They are NOT acarya but acting as in capacity to OFFICIATE on behalf of the ACARYA. This is very clear. Srila Prabhupada has in all front cover of the Books:
Founder-Acarya His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The hypen means Srila Prabhupada IS the ACARYA of ISKCON not simply its Founder consequently, one who wants to accept the position of formality of initiating others can ONLY do so ON BELHALF of Srila Prabhupada the ACARYA. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. Srila Prabhupada’s Diksa giving position in ISKCON as long as it exists is IRREPLACEABLE.
Srila Prabhupada’s introduction of Ritvik Initiations (PANCARATRIKI) is fully justified as the formalities may be changed ” can also be initiated according to circumstances.”
SB 4.8.54 Purport:
Those who are not actually in the line of acaryas, or who personally have no knowledge of how to act in the role of acarya, unnecessarily criticize the activities of the ISKCON movement in countries outside of India. The fact is that such critics cannot do anything personally to spread Krsna consciousness. If someone does go and preach, taking all risks and allowing all considerations for time and place, it might be that there are changes in the manner of worship, but that is not at all faulty according to sastra. Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. The formalities may be slightly changed here and there to make them Vaisnavas.
68-06-12. Letter: whom it may concern
In each center we have got hundreds of disciples and followers, and our initiated disciples are strictly following the restrictions as principle, as follows: (1) no illicit sex life, (2) no intoxication, including coffee, tea, and cigarettes, (3) no gambling, (4) no meat eating. We have got both Brahmacaris and Householders as disciples, and all of them are following the above mentioned principles. THE STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES ARE INITIATED ACCORDING TO AUTHORIZED PANCARATRIKI REGULATIONS. According to Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita, anyone, including so-called low born men, who may take shelter unto the Lotus Feet of Lord Krishna or His devotees, is sanctified by initiation process.
kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye ‘nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah
How such thing can be possible is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that by special all-pervading power of Visnu this is possible.
721027ND.VRN Lecture
So we are trying to follow Sanatana Gosvami. By diksa-vidhanena, by imitating persons any, from anywhere. It does not matter. Because in this age, Kali-yuga, the diksa-vidhana is performed according, according to Pancaratrika-vidhi. Not Vaidika-vidhi. Vaidika-vidhi is very strict. Unless one is bona fide son of a dvija, the initiation was not given. To the sudras, there was no initiation. A brahmana ksatriya, vaisya. So these are the Vedic process. SO IN THE KALI-YUGA, BECAUSE IT IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD THAT EVERYONE IS A SUDRA, THEREFORE VAIDIKA-VIDHANA CANNOT BE APPLIED. VAIDIKA-VIDHANA REQUIRES THAT ONE MUST BE BORN BY A BRAHMANA, KSATRIYA. THEN HE’S ELIGIBLE FOR BEING INITIATED. BUT IN THE KALI-YUGA, THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE. THEREFORE THE PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI IS ACCEPTED.
680724IN.MON Lecture
sruti-smrti-puranadi-
pancaratriki vidhim vina
aikantiki harer bhaktir
utpatayaiva kalpate
This is the definition given by Srila Rupa Gosvami, that to become a devotee of the Lord, Krsna, one has to follow the principles of sruti and smrti, and pancaratriki-vidhi. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, there is no Vedic vidhi. Because Vedic vidhi is lost. Formerly, initiation was offered to a person who is actually born of a brahmana father. Otherwise… Or the higher caste, the brahmanas, the ksatriyas, and the vaisyas, they were offered initiation, and the sudras were not offered. That was the Vedic system. But in this age the sastra says that kalau sudra sambhava. IN THIS AGE OF KALI PRACTICALLY THERE IS NO MORE ANY BRAHMANA, KSATRIYA, OR VAISYA. MAYBE BY NAME, BUT IN QUALIFICATION THEY ARE NOT EXISTING. EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SUDRA. SO IN KALI-YUGA THE PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI IS ACCEPTED. The pancaratriki-vidhi is also Vedic vidhi, corollary, given by Narada Mahamuni. But it is accepted by the Vedic followers, pancaratriki-vidhi.
Pancaratriki-vidhi means if any one has a little inclination for spiritual development, he should be given chance. This initiation means to give chance. The Bhagavata says that kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah. These are the list of the candalas or less than the sudras. So Bhagavata gives open road for everyone. Even one is kirata… Kirata means… Generally they are called aborigines, or the very black aborigines living in the jungles, they are called kirata.
710329BG.BOM Lecture
Our Sanatana Gosvami gives direction in the Hari-bhakti-vilasa that one man can become a brahmana by the regular process of diksa. Diksa, this initiation, cannot be offered to a sudra. Diksa cannot be offered to a sudra. But in this age, Kali-yuga, it is the statement of the sastras that in the Kali-yuga most of the population are sudras. Kalau sudra sambhavah. How they can be initiated? This initiation is offered not according to the Vedic rules, because it is very difficult to find out a qualified brahmana. DIKSA IS OFFERED TO A QUALIFIED BRAHMANA. THEREFORE THIS DIKSA IS OFFERED ACCORDING TO PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI. THAT IS RECOMMENDED IN THIS AGE. MY SPIRITUAL MASTER INAUGURATED THIS PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI, AND WE ARE FOLLOWING HIS FOOTSTEPS. Anyone who is inclined to devote his life for Krsna, he should be accepted as brahmana.
Note: A MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI HAS RECEIVED SPIRITUAL INITIATION FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER AND HAS BEEN FULLY ENGAGED BY HIM IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE OF THE LORD.** THIS IS DIKSA**.
Antya 4.192 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri:
DIKSA-KALE bhakta kare atma-samarpana
sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama
“At the time of initiation, when a devotee FULLY SURRENDERS UNTO THE SERVICE OF THE LORD, Krsna accepts him to be as good as Himself.
Antya 4.193 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri:
“When the devotee’s body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders SERVICE to the lotus feet of the Lord.
Antya 4.194 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri:
“‘The living entity who is subjected to birth and death, when he gives up all material activities dedicating his life to Me for executing My order, and thus acts according to My direction, AT THAT TIME HE REACHES THE PLATFORM OF IMMORTALITY, AND BECOMES FIT TO ENJOY THE SPIRITUAL BLISS OF EXCHANGE OF LOVING MELLOWS WITH ME.’
NoI 5:
In order to intelligently apply the sixfold loving reciprocations mentioned in the previous verse, one must select proper persons with careful discrimination. Srila Rupa Gosvami therefore advises that we should meet with the Vaisnavas in an appropriate way, according to their particular status. In this verse he tells us how to deal with three types of devotees–the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The kanistha-adhikari is a neophyte who has received the hari-nama initiation from the spiritual master and is trying to chant the holy name of Krsna. One should respect such a person within his mind as a kanistha-vaisnava. A MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI HAS RECEIVED SPIRITUAL INITIATION FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER AND HAS BEEN FULLY ENGAGED BY HIM IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE OF THE LORD. The madhyama-adhikari should be considered to be situated midway in devotional service. The uttama-adhikari, or highest devotee, is one who is very advanced in devotional service. An uttama-adhikari is not interested in blaspheming others, his heart is completely clean, and he has attained the realized state of unalloyed Krsna consciousness. According to Srila Rupa Gosvami, the association and service of such a maha-bhagavata, or perfect Vaisnava, are most desirable.s to act for everyone’s welfare.
Note: in this Srila Prabhupada makes a point of Initiation as a formality this is different from Madhyama Adhikaris receiving Diksa
761016iv.cha Conversation Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. INITIATION IS FORMALITY. JUST LIKE YOU GO TO A SCHOOL FOR KNOWLEDGE, AND ADMISSION IS FORMALITY. THAT IS NOT VERY IMPORTANT THING.
Whereas Srila Prabhupada DELIVERS by giving DIKSA knowledge the formality is conducted by the Ritviks (Representatives of Acarya).
Kanistha adhikari is supposed to be in the mode of Goodness Sattva guna not on Visuddha Sattava platform which is Pure Goodness so he can NOT give diksa. How can a Kanistha adhikari give diksa if he himself is not free from all material contamination?
Madhya 4.111 Sri Madhavendra Puri’ s Devotional Service:
Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.
If Kanistha adhikari could give this Diksa to another this means there would be no material contamination at all but he cannot do this. ONLY at Madhyama adhikari stage one can initiated with transcendental Knowledge and become freed from ALL material contamination. It is mistakenly misunderstood that even Kanistha or Madhyama adhikari give diksa this is perhaps due to the understanding they CAN accept disciples. Please see the quote below:
“In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and the uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaisnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaisnavism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritualmaster.” (Purport, Nectar of Instruction)
In this quote please note there is no mention of giving diksa at all. In fact it does NOT encourage accepting spiritual master from the Madhyama or Kanistha. The quote is about taking discipline NOT Diksa. The 3rd Offence in chanting is to disobey the Spiritual master so in either case if one becomes a spiritual master without being on Uttama Adhikari he will be committing offense and if he accepts one who is not on uttama adhikari he will commit offense in the chanting of the holy name.
Note: Diksa is illustrated graphically here Vasudeva was on Suddha sattva platform this is why from him Krsna is transferred to Devaki
SB 10.2.18 Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb:
Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was TRANSFERRED from the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devaki. Devaki, having thus been initiated by Vasudeva, became beautiful by carrying Lord Krsna, the original consciousness for everyone, the cause of all causes, within the core of her heart, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.
PURPORT:
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was TRANSFERRED from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. THUS THE IMPORTANCE OF INITIATION IS MENTIONED HERE. UNLESS ONE IS INITIATED BY THE RIGHT PERSON, WHO ALWAYS CARRIES WITHIN HIS HEART THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, ONE CANNOT ACQUIRE THE POWER TO CARRY THE SUPREME GODHEAD WITHIN THE CORE OF ONE’S OWN HEART.
SB 8.5.29 P The Demigods Appeal to the Lord for Protection:
Sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam (Bhag. 4.3.23). In this material world, the three modes of material nature–goodness, passion and ignorance–prevail. Among these three, goodness is the platform of knowledge, and passion brings about a mixture of knowledge and ignorance, but the mode of ignorance is full of darkness. Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead is beyond darkness and passion. HE IS ON THE PLATFORM WHERE GOODNESS OR KNOWLEDGE IS NOT DISTURBED BY PASSION AND IGNORANCE. THIS IS CALLED THE VASUDEVA PLATFORM. IT IS ON THIS PLATFORM OF VASUDEVA THAT VASUDEVA, OR KRSNA, CAN APPEAR.
SB 5.3.20 P Rsabhadeva’ s Appearance in the Womb of Merudevi, the Wife of King Nabhi:
Lord Visnu descends in His suddha-sattva form. Suddha-sattva refers to the sattva-guna which is never contaminated. In this material world, even the mode of goodness (sattva-guna) is contaminated by tinges of rajo-guna and tamo-guna. WHEN SATTVA-GUNA IS NEVER CONTAMINATED BY RAJO-GUNA AND TAMO-GUNA, IT IS CALLED SUDDHA-SATTVA. SATTVAM VISUDDHAM VASUDEVA-SABDITAM (BHAG. 4.3.23). THAT IS THE PLATFORM OF VASUDEVA, WHEREBY THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, VASUDEVA, CAN BE EXPERIENCED.
Note: Karma is taken by UTTAMA-ADHAKARI. Only he can DELIVER by definition. uttama-adhikari Sei taraye samsara.
Madhya 22.65 The Process of Devotional Service:
uttama-adhikari–the topmost devotee; sei–he; taraye samsara–can deliver the whole world.
Srila Prabhupada delivers. He GIVES Diksa. Formalities of initiation are done by his Ritvik Representatives.
Sudharsana Dasa where are you heading with this type of comments saying ; ” ……… almost maniacal false conclusions. ” ?
You have simply proven that you are IGNORANT by playing the games of defensive and offensive as mentioned in my comments because you continue to ignore in describing my false conclusions and yet you accuse me of it in your every comments you reply . Is it NOT a FACT ?
What it says is that you are hiding behind your personal hidden agenda by going around off topic of the discussion by playing games as described in my comments and thus, spreading very thinly all over the place which results the loss of essence in conveying your message. Another words, you seem to have read previous acarayas literature without the proper understanding of it.
Had you read and listened from Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions ( Books, lectures, letters etc.) you would quote and write straight forward in your message without any deviations.
As I mentioned in my earlier comments that since your source of information about reading the previous acarayas seems corrupted, therefore, you are unable to present the facts and address the issue as it is.
Hence, the delusion takes place.
Under these circumstances, I only wish to grasp the essence of the Insgructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada and thus humbly request you to please do the same in order to make your life sublime in cultivating Krsna consciousness.
Hari BOL.
OM TAT SAT.
Mahesh Raja. I have already undergone the ”formalities” of diksa (diksa mantra/pantrika mantra) over 3 decades ago. I have no further need of any “intermediary conditioned soul” in my relationship with Srila Prabhupada.
Vaisnava Dasanudas
Sudarsana Das Vanacari :When we glorify Srila Prabhupada by singing the song ‘Sri Guru Carana Padma’ are those words Srila Prabhupada’s words?
Mahesh: OUR FIRST BUSINESS is to UNDERSTAND FROM Srila Prabhupada he is OUR CURRENT LINK in the Disciplic Succession of ACARYAS:
731208SB.LA Lectures
So if you want to understand Bhagavad-gita, then we must understand in the same way as the person who directly heard from. This is called parampara system. Suppose I have heard something from my spiritual master, so I speak to you the same thing. So this is parampara system. YOU CANNOT IMAGINE WHAT MY SPIRITUAL MASTER SAID. OR EVEN IF YOU READ SOME BOOKS, YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME. THIS IS CALLED PARAMPARA SYSTEM. YOU CANNOT JUMP OVER TO THE SUPERIOR GURU, NEGLECTING THE NEXT ACARYA, IMMEDIATE NEXT ACARYA.
SB 3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acarya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.
Note: “Sri Guru-vandana” singing the song ‘Sri Guru Carana Padma’ does NOT stop there. There is FURTHER explanation Srila Prabhupada gives Divya-jnana (DIKSA). Divya means TRANSCENDENTAL and Jnana means KNOWLEDGE Hride means heart and Prokasito means revealed just as in prakasa – manifested Krishna becomes manifest in the heart of the Pure Devotee.
Diksa MEANS from this divya-jnana:
Lectures, July 11, 1976, New York
Prabhupada: Divya-jnana hrde prokasito. What is that divya-jnana? Divya-jnana is that we are all SERVANT OF KRISHNA, and our only business is to serve Krishna. Divya-jnana. This is divya-jnana. It is not difficult at all. Simply we have… We have become servant of so many things–servant of society, servant of community, servant of country, servant of wife, servant of children, servant of dog and so many. “Now let me become SERVANT OF KRISHNA” This is divya-jnana. Diksa. Diksa means from this divya-jnana. That is di. And ksa means ksapayati, expands.
Note: When at the stage of Madhyama Adhikari one is RECEPIENT of THAT Diksa in the HEART from SRILA PRABHUPADA he becomes a SERVANT OF KRISHNA. He relishes a particular mellow (Rasa) of his relationship with Krishna. This point HE SEES KRISHNA and HIS RELATIONSHIP (svarupa) is established. So it is not so CHEAP to be Diksa guru.
TLK Vs 29 Perfect Knowledge Through Surrender
We can experience ananda perfectly in the association of Krsna. We can associate with Krsna as a servant, a friend, a father, a mother or a conjugal lover. There are five basic rasas–santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya. is Vrndavana.”
TLK Vs 29 Perfect Knowledge Through Surrender
We can experience ananda perfectly in the association of Krsna. We can associate with Krsna as a servant, a friend, a father, a mother or a conjugal lover. There are five basic rasas–santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya. is Vrndavana.”
Bg 8.14 P Attaining the Supreme
A PURE DEVOTEE constantly remembers Krsna and meditates upon Him. These are qualifications of the pure devotee for whom the Lord is most easily attainable. Bhakti-yoga is the system that the Gita recommends above all others. Generally, the bhakti-yogis are engaged in five different ways: 1) SANTA-BHAKTA, ENGAGED IN DEVOTIONAL SERVICE IN NEUTRALITY; 2) DASYA-BHAKTA, ENGAGED IN DEVOTIONAL SERVICE AS SERVANT; 3) SAKHYA-BHAKTA, ENGAGED AS FRIEND; 4) VATSALYA-BHAKTA, ENGAGED AS PARENT; AND 5) MADHURYA-BHAKTA, ENGAGED AS CONJUGAL LOVER OF THE SUPREME LORD. IN ANY OF THESE WAYS, THE PURE DEVOTEE IS ALWAYS CONSTANTLY ENGAGED IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE OF THE SUPREME LORD and cannot forget the Supreme Lord, and so for him the Lord is easily attained. A pure devotee cannot forget the Supreme Lord for a moment, and similarly, the Supreme Lord cannot forget His pure devotee for a moment. This is the great blessing of the Krsna conscious process of chanting the maha-mantra–Hare Krsna.
Note: Diksa is illustrated graphically here(MAHA BHAGAVATA) Vasudeva was on Suddha sattva platform this is why from him Krsna is transferred to Devaki
SB 10.2.18 Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb:
Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was transferred from the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devaki. Devaki, having thus been initiated by Vasudeva, became beautiful by carrying Lord Krsna, the original consciousness for everyone, the cause of all causes, within the core of her heart, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.
PURPORT:
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was TRANSFERRED from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. UNLESS ONE IS INITIATED BY THE RIGHT PERSON, WHO ALWAYS CARRIES WITHIN HIS HEART THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, ONE CANNOT ACQUIRE THE POWER TO CARRY THE SUPREME GODHEAD WITHIN THE CORE OF ONE’S OWN HEART.
Please let me know what term do you want me to use to refer to those who claim to be his disciples [SG yadda yadda deleted]
Ah ! Webmaster, as usual you decided not to publish my comments.
[SG yadda yadda deleted]
Sudarsana Das Vanacari says: ” Mahesh Raja. I have already undergone the ”formalities” of diksa (diksa mantra/pantrika mantra) over 3 decades ago. I have no further need of any “intermediary conditioned soul” in my relationship with Srila Prabhupada.”
The question arises from above mentioned Sudarsana Das writings that who gave him diksa – 3 decades ago ?
Was it conducted on behalf of Srila Prabhupada because he did not have the need of any “intermediary conditioned soul” as he writes ?
Hope he does answer these questions.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
SG and associates do not accept the exalted position of Srila Prabhupada. That is why these people are lost and confused upon reading the available various writings duly interpreted by different self motivated personalities on the Instructions of our previous Spiritual Masters in the disciplic succession.
That is why Srila Prabhupada has said that every things are in His BOOKS. The conditioned (the Cheaters and the Cheated ) Jivas do not want to follow and learn from the Instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada. It is simply because there remains in their heart some sort of a propensities of getting cheated on account of certain material desires. There is nothing anybody can do about it.
Those who are serious and sincere certainly follow the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada in order to make their lives sublime in cultivating Krsna Consciousness.
OM TAT SAT.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Amar Puri Das Well, You can’t even agree with me that the term “Prabhupadanugas” is a concoction (as Srila Prabhupada did NOT describe himself using this term). I do not call myself a “Prabhupadanuga” because Srila Prabhupada did not. Srila Prabhupada said that the Americans did not go to the moon also, but I am of the opinion that they did, so what! That’s my opinion. Why did Srila Prabhupada pick the ”worst of the worst” (child molesters rapists, murderers, deviants, drug addicts, sahajiyas and mayavadis) to ‘act on his behalf’ after he departed……Think about it! Why did he not choose less demonic persons! or aren’t there any! The very least you can do is answer this! But I know you cannot!
In Sri Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya ALL books by previous Acaryas (the words, purports and commentaries) should be read (and preserved) by us not just Srila Prabhupada and only commentaies by successive Acaryas (not by those who are not Acaryas in our Sampradaya. Sri Brahma Madva Gaudiya Sampradaya is not a ‘personality cult’. In our sampradaya Siksa is the prominent principal otherwise the sampradaya would not exist. Bipin Bihari Goswami is Srila Bhaktivinode Thakurs DIKSA guru, So Where is he in our sampradaya?
I have just received email saying it was Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura who rejected Bipin Bihari Goswami and then took initiation from JAGANNATHA DASA BABAJI.
Actually – it states here that SRILA JAGANNATHA DASA BABAJI, WHO INITIATED SRILA BHAKTIVINODA THAKURA. Srila Prabhupada does not write about Bipin Bihari Goswami—–AT ALL—- in ANY of his books.
Maybe he was NOT worth to mention as conditioned soul?
Adi 1 The Spiritual Masters
The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted SRILA JAGANNATHA DASA BABAJI, WHO INITIATED SRILA BHAKTIVINODA THAKURA, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: Bipin Bihari Goswami is Srila Bhaktivinode Thakurs DIKSA guru, So Where is he in our sampradaya?
Mahesh: CONDITIONED souls are NOT accepted in the DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS:
SB 3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acarya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.
Dear Sudarsana Das Vanacari.
You are in Krsna Consoiusness over three decades. I am not even devotee. But I see according to your questions you have no knowledge of Srila Prabhupada and you have no belief in Srila Prabhupada . I am suprised that why is this ?
I think you do not read Srila Prabhupada .
Amar Purí certainly will give answers you, but why do you think that Americans did go to the moon ? There is no evidence !
Mahesh Raja. It is not my understanding that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur ‘rejected’ Bipin Bihari Goswami but only that he took initiation (diksa) from him. This is the custom in Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya and more of a formality. Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur was still respectful but as Bipin Bihari’s Siddhanta was not strong, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur accepted siksa from Srila Jaganannatha Das Babaji.
It is NOT correct that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur was ‘initiated’ (diksa) by Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji.
Srila Narottama Das Thakur preached very strongly that spiritual advancement has little or nothing to do with “who” you are initiated by,”when” you are initiated (in relation to others) nor does any ‘group consesus’, or what ‘asrama’ or varna you are from, or what sex …..etc..etc.
Srila Narottama Das Thakur’s initiating (diksa) guru was Lokanatha Goswami. Srila Krsnadas Kaviraja was NOT his diksa guru. Lokanatha Goswami told Srila Narottama Das Thakur to accept instruction (siksa) from Srila Jiva Goswami (this again illustrates the the prominence of Siksa)
You say further that Srila Visvanatha Chakravati Thakur ‘accepted’ (I assume by that you mean diksa) Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji. This is also FALSE. How could he have given initiation (diksa) when he had departed from this world in the year 1708! Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji wasn’t born till 1776! his diksa guru was Jagadananda Goswami and his ‘Babaji’ initiating guru was Madhusudana Das Babaji.
It is also FALSE to state that Srila Gaurakisora Das Babaji was initiated (diksa) by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur. Srila Gaurakisora Das Babaji’s diksa guru was Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji (yes, he lived a very long life, over 120 or so years). Both VANI and SIKSA have similar if not the same meaning. Siksa is coming ‘through’ Srila Prabhupada from previous acaryas not from him.
Daso Smi
Mahesh Raja. Why do you FALSELY assume that “spiritual master” means diksa. This is FALSE Idea, perpetuated by foolish GBC, rubber stamp monkeys and flunkies. Don’t assume this nonsense Idea listen to previous Acaryas like Narottama Das Thakur! is he saying like this? ………..No!
Sudarsana Das Vanacari says:
“Why did Srila Prabhupada pick the ”worst of the worst” (child molesters rapists, murderers, deviants, drug addicts, sahajiyas and mayavadis) to ‘act on his behalf’ after he departed”
May I ask you …. “Why did Srila Prabhupada pick the ”worst of the worst” (child molesters rapists, murderers, deviants, drug addicts, sahajiyas and mayavadis) to ‘act on his behalf’ BEFORE he departed”
……Think about it!
Sudarsana Das Vanacari ; Informatively I may mention and remind you that all of your questions have been answered in the debate under discussion on this post.
Perhaps, it appears that you have not read the answers or have IGNORED the answers BECAUSE it did not suit your personally motivated hidden agenda.
For example ; Did you read this my post which I am reproducing it again for your kind perusal :
Amar Puri says:
6. January 2014 at 6:11 pm
His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada explains in the Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 12.9 purport:
“When disciples do not stick to the principle of accepting the order of their spiritual master, immediately there are two opinions. Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. There is no scope for adjusting spiritual advancement to material ideas.”
It is explained further in the c.c. Adi 12.10:
acaryera mata yei, sei mata sara
tanra ajna langhi’ cale, sei ta’ asara
“The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes useless.
Here is the opinion of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami — Purport ;
” Persons who strictly follow the orders of the spiritual master are useful in executing the will of the Supreme, whereas persons who deviate from the strict order of the spiritual master are useless.”
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Hari BOL.
Further did you also read this post which I am reproducing for your convenience again that answer your question ;
Pratyatosa Dasa Prabhu says:
7. January 2014 at 6:08 am
Sudarsana Das Vanacari says: This word [Prabhupadanuga], as far as I know, is a concoction which does not appear anywhere in the Vedic literatures as far as I understand.
This is pure silliness. Whoever came up with the term, “Prabhupadanuga” was right on target. I myself came up with the term, “Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry” in 1973. Did Srila Prabhupada ever say that the “Bhaktivedanta Tape Ministry” terminology is an “unwanted concoction which does not appear in any Vedic literatures?” Of course not! Using our God-given intelligence in the service of God is what Prabhupada wants us to do! ”
Mahesh Raja Prabhu have answered your question over and over again which reads ;
Mahesh Raja says:
14. January 2014 at 9:19 am
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: Bipin Bihari Goswami is Srila Bhaktivinode Thakurs DIKSA guru, So Where is he in our sampradaya?
Mahesh: CONDITIONED souls are NOT accepted in the DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS:
SB 3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acarya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
Now that all of your questions have been answered on this forum, therefore, it should behove you to answer my question as put forth to you in my comments which I reproduce below once again ;
Amar Puri says:
13. January 2014 at 6:06 pm
Sudarsana Das Vanacari says: ” Mahesh Raja. I have already undergone the ”formalities” of diksa (diksa mantra/pantrika mantra) over 3 decades ago. I have no further need of any “intermediary conditioned soul” in my relationship with Srila Prabhupada.”
The question arises from above mentioned Sudarsana Das writings that who gave him diksa — 3 decades ago ??????????
Was it conducted on behalf of Srila Prabhupada because he did not have the need of any “intermediary conditioned soul” as he writes ???????????
Hope he does answer these questions.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
N.B. : Should you fail to answer the questions I put forth as cited above, you leave no choice to yourself BUT to leave this group and refrain from posting any further NONSENSE comments which is full of contradiction and misleading the innocent ( sincere and serious) Readers.
Hope it meets you well, Sudarsana das Vanacari.
OM TAT SAT.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
What does it mean to be fully Krsna conscious?
HDG. Srila Prabhupada explains during the Morning Walk — December 10, 1975, Vrndavana ;
Visala: I remember over five years ago you telling me about, “If you read the first nine cantos of Srimad-Bhagavatam, you become fully Krsna conscious.” Would you kindly tell me what does it mean to be fully Krsna conscious?
Prabhupada: What do you understand, fully Krsna conscious?
Visala: What does it mean to be fully Krsna conscious?
Prabhupada: No, what you mean, first of all let me know.
Harikesa: What do you think fully Krsna concious means? You tell Prabhupada.
Visala: It’s to see Krsna face to face?
Prabhupada: That means Krsna conscious? Everyone is seeing Krsna face to face. When you go to the temple Krsna is there, and you are seeing. Does it mean everyone is Krsna conscious?
Visala: No.
Prabhupada: Then what is the meaning of Krsna conscious?
Indian man: Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54].
Prabhupada: Hm, that is part of Krsna consciousness, brahma bhutah. Real Krsna consciousness is: “Krsna is master, I am servant.” This is Krsna consciousness.
Visala: To understand that you’re the servant and Krsna is the master. I see.
Prabhupada: When you fully understand, that is your Krsna… That is Krsna conscious. [break] So long you think that “I can also become like Krsna,” then you are not Krsna conscious.
Visala: In other words, if you still have material desires you can’t be fully Krsna conscious.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the beginning of Krsna consciousness, anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Make all your material desires zero.
Visala: Thank you very much.
Prabhupada: That is Krsna conscious. You should only desire to serve Krsna. [break] …clear or not?
Visala: Very clear. Thank you very much.
Harikesa: What if a person doesn’t desire material enjoyment, but still, there is so much dirt?
Prabhupada: Hm? Who is that person who has no material desires?
Harikesa: A person really wants to be Krsna conscious, but somehow or another, so much dirts gets in the way.
Prabhupada: Yes. Dirt means it is not yet zero. I said that all material desires should be made zero.
Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11].
Harikesa: As soon as the desires completely change, then everything else is purified.
Prabhupada: Yes. As Arjuna said, karisye vacana tava, nasto mohah: “Now my illusion is over. I agree to act as you say.” This is Krsna conscious. Nasto moha smrtir labdh tvat prasadan madhusudana. [break] The moha is there. Moha means these desires are illusion, like dreaming. In dream we see so many things. They are all false. In dreaming I am seeing that somebody is coming to kill me but there is nobody, but still, I am dreaming. This is called moha. So when one is free from moha, then he’s Krsna conscious. The whole material world is going on under such illusion. Therefore it is called maya.
Hare Krsna. Thank you. (end)
Jai Srila Prabhupada.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: It is NOT correct that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur was ‘initiated’ (diksa) by Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji.
Mahesh: We PRABHUPADANUGAS ONLY ACCEPT SRILA PRABHUPADA as EVIDENCE:
Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 1 The Spiritual Masters
The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted SRILA JAGANNATHA DASA BABAJI, WHO INITIATED SRILA BHAKTIVINODA THAKURA, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: You say further that Srila Visvanatha Chakravati Thakur ‘accepted’ (I assume by that you mean diksa) Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji. This is also FALSE. How could he have given initiation (diksa) when he had departed from this world in the year 1708! Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji wasn’t born till 1776!
Mahesh: You are trying to bring Diksa down to the level of BEING PHYSICALLY PRESENT -ONLY- FOR THROWING Banana and sesame seeds in the fire Sacrifice – FORMALITY INITIATION. Srila Prabhupada states THAT IS NOT VERY IMPORTANT THING.
761016iv.cha Conversation Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. INITIATION IS FORMALITY. JUST LIKE YOU GO TO A SCHOOL FOR KNOWLEDGE, AND ADMISSION IS FORMALITY. THAT IS NOT VERY IMPORTANT THING.
Note: RECEPTION OF SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE IS NEVER CHECKED BY ANY MATERIAL CONDITION.
SB 7.7.1 P What Prahlada Learned in the Womb
When he was in the womb of his mother, Prahlada Maharaja listened to the words of Narada Muni. One cannot imagine how the baby in embryo could hear Narada, but this is spiritual life; progress in spiritual life cannot be obstructed by any material condition. THIS IS CALLED AHAITUKY APRATIHATA. RECEPTION OF SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE IS NEVER CHECKED BY ANY MATERIAL CONDITION.
Note:THE POTENCY OF TRANSCENDENTAL SOUND IS NEVER MINIMIZED BECAUSE THE VIBRATOR IS APPARENTLY ABSENT.
SB 2.9.8 P Answers by Citing the Lord’ s Version
Lord Brahma heard the occult sound tapa, but he did not see the person who vibrated the sound. And still he accepted the instruction as beneficial for him, and therefore he engaged himself in meditation for one thousand celestial years. One celestial year is equal to 6 x 30 x 12 x 1000 of our years. His acceptance of the sound was due to his pure vision of the absolute nature of the Lord. And due to his correct vision, he made no distinction between the Lord and the Lord’s instruction. There is no difference between the Lord and sound vibration coming from Him, even though He is not personally present. The best way of understanding is to accept such divine instruction, and Brahma, the prime spiritual master of everyone, is the living example of this process of receiving transcendental knowledge. THE POTENCY OF TRANSCENDENTAL SOUND IS NEVER MINIMIZED BECAUSE THE VIBRATOR IS APPARENTLY ABSENT.
74-11-22. Letter: Bahurupa
In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop.
Los Angeles, California 90034730513mw.la Conversations
Paramahamsa: Srila Prabhupada, when you are not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions, for example, on questions that may arise?
Prabhupada: Well, the questions… Answers are there in my books.
Paramahamsa: Other than that, for example, that we would ask you in…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: Do you direct us also through the heart? Besides the Paramatma?
Prabhupada: If your heart is pure. Everything depends on purity.
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
There is NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.
70-01-24. Letter: Ranadhira
Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice–in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered.
70-02-14.Sac Letter: Sacisuta
If you simply chant your rounds daily as prescribed and stick strictly to the rules and regulations, all these questions will automatically be answered by Krsna as Supersoul. You may refer in this connection to Bhagavad gita, (10:10), “To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.” and (10:11), “Out of compassion for them, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance.” This process of understanding by devotional service is essential for developing Krsna Consciousness and you all must follow this program assiduously.
72-02-19. Letter: Upendra
(8) In other words, if you are sincere to serve continuously and always chanting, all such questions become answered automatically. I never asked my Spiritual Master one question except one: “How shall I serve you?” So in this way, kindly inform the others that I may be relieved to give you so many more nice books–that is my real desire.
72-03-07.Ani Letter: Aniruddha
Thank you very much for serving Krishna in this way, and if you go on sincerely serving like this, chanting, and following the regulative principles strictly, all your questions will be answered by Krishna automatically.
SB 2.9.8 P Answers by Citing the Lord’ s Version
The potency of transcendental sound is NEVER minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent.
690113LE.LA Lectures
Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Krsna, to consider that “This is a stone…” Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na… Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man’s body, this is denied in the sastras. So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master, THAT IS LIVING.
72-12-14. Letter: Tusta Krsna
Next you ask if I am present in my picture and form? Yes. In form as well as in teachings. To carry out the teachings of guru is more important than to worship the form, but none of them should be neglected. Form is called vapu and teachings is called vani. Both should be worshiped. Vani is MORE important than vapu.
73-12-25. Letter: Gurukrpa , Yasodanandana
Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. There is no need whatsoever for any outside instruction.
731208SB.LA Lectures
So if you want to understand Bhagavad-gita, then we must understand in the same way as the person who directly heard from. This is called parampara system. Suppose I have heard something from my spiritual master, so I speak to you the same thing. So this is parampara system. YOU CANNOT IMAGINE WHAT MY SPIRITUAL MASTER SAID. OR EVEN IF YOU READ SOME BOOKS, YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME. THIS IS CALLED PARAMPARA SYSTEM. YOU CANNOT JUMP OVER TO THE SUPERIOR GURU, NEGLECTING THE NEXT ACARYA, IMMEDIATE NEXT ACARYA.
Note: you can DIRECTLY associate with Srila Prabhupada by reading his books:
721020ND.VRN Lectures
But in this life, if we develop Krsna consciousness by association of devotees… As Narottama dasa Thakura has sung, tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa. One’s aim of life should be to serve the acaryas. Acarya upasanam. So our acarya in the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya, the sri-rupa sanatana bhatta-raghunatha, sri-jiva gopala-bhatta dasa-raghunatha, the Six Gosvamins, and if we associate with them… THIS BOOK, NECTAR OF DEVOTION, BHAKTI-RASAMRTA-SINDHU, IF YOU READ REGULARLY, TRY TO UNDERSTAND, THIS MEANS YOU ARE ASSOCIATING WITH SRILA RUPA GOSVAMI DIRECTLY. AND IF YOU ACT ACCORDINGLY, THEN YOU ARE SERVING THEIR LOTUS FEET. TANDERA CARANA-SEVI-BHAKTA-SANE VASA.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: Srila Prabhupada said that the Americans did not go to the moon also, but I am of the opinion that they did, so what! That’s my opinion.
Mahesh: That – may be YOUR opinion: HOWEVER, WE PRABHUPADANUGAS ACCEPT -ONLY- SRILA PRABHUPADA OUR BONDAFIDE DIKSA AND SIKSA GURU:
MOON
SB 8.11.5 P King Indra Annihilates the Demons
There are undoubtedly different planetary systems for different persons. AS STATED IN BHAGAVAD-GITA (14.18), URDHVAM GACCHANTI SATTVA-STHAH: PERSONS IN THE MODE OF GOODNESS CAN GO TO THE UPPER PLANETS. Those in the modes of darkness and passion, however, are not allowed to enter the higher planets. The word divam refers to the higher planetary system known as Svargaloka. Indra, King of the higher planetary system, has the power to push down any conditioned soul attempting to go from the lower to the higher planets without proper qualifications. THE MODERN ATTEMPT TO GO TO THE MOON IS ALSO AN ATTEMPT BY INFERIOR MEN TO GO TO SVARGALOKA BY ARTIFICIAL, MECHANICAL MEANS. THIS ATTEMPT CANNOT BE SUCCESSFUL. FROM THIS STATEMENT OF INDRA IT APPEARS THAT ANYONE ATTEMPTING TO GO TO THE HIGHER PLANETARY SYSTEMS BY MECHANICAL MEANS, WHICH ARE HERE CALLED MAYA, IS CONDEMNED TO GO THE HELLISH PLANETS IN THE LOWER PORTION OF THE UNIVERSE. TO GO TO THE HIGHER PLANETARY SYSTEM, ONE NEEDS SUFFICIENT GOOD QUALITIES. A SINFUL PERSON SITUATED IN THE MODE OF IGNORANCE AND ADDICTED TO DRINKING, MEAT-EATING AND ILLICIT SEX WILL NEVER ENTER THE HIGHER PLANETS BY MECHANICAL MEANS.
740101SB.LA Lectures
So this is the age of Kali. So simply full of sinful activities, that’s all. That is Kali-yuga. But sinful activities will not help us. That they have no brain to understand. You have to purify yourself. Sinful activities will involve you more and more in the cycle of birth and death. You will take sometimes birth as a king or as a demigod, and sometimes as the worm of the stool. Because according to your karma, you will get next body. Karmana daiva-netrena. Therefore the process is at least don’t act sinfully. Then you will get higher-class birth. Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah. You will get chance of taking your birth in higher planetary system where the standard of living is many, many thousands better than this planet. JUST LIKE SVARGALOKA, JANALOKA. FROM OUR SASTRA WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE INHABITANTS OF CANDRALOKA, MOON PLANET, THEY LIVE FOR TEN THOUSANDS OF YEARS, BUT THESE RASCALS ARE GOING THERE. THEY DO NOT FIND ANY LIVING ENTITY. SO THAT IS THE CONTRADICTION. BUT WE BELIEVE THAT IN THE MOON PLANET… AND WHY WE SHALL NOT BELIEVE? IF THE LIVING ENTITIES ARE FOUND EVERYWHERE, SO WHY, WHAT MOON PLANET HAS DONE THAT THERE SHOULD BE NO LIVING ENTITY? FROM OUR EXPERIENCE WE CAN SEE LIVING ENTITY IS THERE ON THE LAND, IN THE AIR, IN THE WATER, EVEN IN THE FIRE. SO EVERY PLANET IS MADE OF THESE FIVE ELEMENTS: EARTH, WATER, FIRE, AIR, SKY. SO WE FIND BY PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE THAT IN THE WATER THERE IS LIVING ENTITY, ON THE LAND THERE IS LIVING ENTITY, WITHIN THE LAND THERE IS LIVING ENTITY. SO WHY IN THE MOON PLANET OR OTHER PLANET THERE SHOULD BE NO LIVING ENTITIES? THAT’S A WRONG THEORY.
740318mw.vrn Conversations
Guru dasa: Why does the moon reflect? They say the moon is sandy, but this sand here is not reflecting.
Prabhupada: That… They are not going to the moon planet. They are going to some other planet, Rahu planet.
Guru dasa: Rahu?
Prabhupada: Yes. There are many planets invisible. So there is a Rahu planet which comes in front of the moon planet, and that is called eclipse. So there is a planet rotating. I think they are going to that Rahu planet, not to the moon planet.
750301mw.atl Conversations
Balavanta: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam you say that the Rahu planet is visible on the full moon night? The Rahu planet?
Prabhupada: No, when there is eclipse.
Balavanta: Oh, eclipse.
Prabhupada: Eclipse means Rahu planet comes in front.
SB 4.29.69 P Talks Between Narada and King Pracinabarhi
In this connection, the darkness occurring before the full moon, the lunar eclipse, can be explained as being another planet, known as Rahu. According to Vedic astronomy, the Rahu planet, which is not visible, is accepted. Sometimes the Rahu planet is visible in the presence of full moonlight. It then appears that this Rahu planet exists somewhere near the orbit of the moon. The failure of modern moon excursionists may be due to the Rahu planet. In other words, those who are supposed to be going to the moon may actually be going to this invisible planet Rahu. Actually, they are not going to the moon but to the planet Rahu, and after reaching this planet, they come back. Apart from this discussion, the point is that a living entity has immense and unlimited desires for material enjoyment, and he has to transmigrate from one gross body to another until these desires are exhausted.
750615SB.HON Lectures
So in the Fifth Chapter, at the end of the Fifth Chapter, Sukadeva Gosvami has described the different sufferings, body in the hellish condition. We are, according to change of body, we are not only going through the evolutionary process of different types of body, as we have got experience here: the aquatics, the trees, the plants, the insect, the birds, the beast, then a human being. Similarly, after human being, if we do not work properly with our advanced consciousness, then we go down again in the hellish planet that are down this universe. And if we act piously, then you go to the upper planetary system. This moon planet is also one of the upper planetary system. BUT YOU CANNOT GO BY SPUTNIK. THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE. IT IS ALL FOOLISHNESS. THE MOON PLANET IS SITUATED ABOVE THE SUN PLANET. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO THE MOON PLANET; THEREFORE THEY HAVE STOPPED THEIR PROPAGANDA. SO ABOVE THAT MOON PLANET, THERE IS VENUS, THERE IS JUPITER, THERE IS MARS, AND SO MANY OTHERS. SO IN THE SASTRA IT IS SAID, URDHVAM GACCHANTI SATTVA-STHAH. IF YOU ACT VERY PIOUSLY, IN THE MODE OF GOODNESS, THEN YOU ARE PROMOTED TO THE HIGHER PLANETARY SYSTEM. And if you do not work in the modes of goodness–in the modes of passion–then you remain in this planet and become changed into so many bodies. And if you still work… Jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. If you are so abominable that you do not work as a human being and just like animal, then you go to the hellish condition. This is nature’s law.
760101BG.MAD Lectures
They are going to, trying to go to the moon planet but according to our calculation they have never gone to the moon planet. They have never gone because, we find in the sastras, the moon planet is situated 1,600,000 miles above the sun. And they calculate that 93,000,000’s of miles the sun is situated. So 93,000,000 plus another 1,600,000 it becomes 95,000,000 miles. HOW ONE CAN GO NINETY-FIVE MILLIONS OF MILES IN FOUR DAYS? SO ACCORDING TO OUR SASTRA, WE CANNOT BELIEVE THIS STATEMENT.
So apart from this discussion, you can go to the moon planet. That is also one of the heavenly planet. But you have to prepare for that, sir. That is karma-kandiya. You have to perform such and such yajnas. It is not that by force you can go any other planet. By force you cannot go even any other parts of the world here. If you want to go to America you have to take passport, visa, and so many things. And you’ll be allowed to go to the moon planet without any visa or passport? How it is possible? It is common sense. They are so fools that some rascal will take some machine and go there? That is not possible.
760706r2.wdc Conversations
Prabhupada: Why he brings Arizona? Who asked him? That means that their business in Arizona.
Rupanuga: They have exposed themselves.
Prabhupada: Rascals, how they are cheating people.
Rupanuga: Such a big hoax. They have spent billions of dollars for such a hoax.
Prabhupada: Now you consider whether I am right or wrong. THE MOON PLANET IS ALSO ARIZONA. (LAUGHS) ALL THEIR BUSINESS ASSET IS THERE.
Rupanuga: So one of the things we want to do is expose this cheating. Should we expose this kind of thing directly like this, or should we indirectly deal with it?
Prabhupada: No, you do scientifically. I give you the hint. (laughter)
Svarupa Damodara: If we say that, they will be mad at the…
Prabhupada: Give psychology. Say “WHO ASKED HIM ABOUT ARIZONA? WHY HE IS SPEAKING ARIZONA?” THAT MEANS THEY ARE IN ARIZONA.
760710mw.ny Conversations
Prabhupada: And as soon as we say that you take an egg and find out the chemicals and put it into the incubator or under a chicken, get life, “No, wait millions of years.” THIS BLUFFING. AND THIS MOON PLANET GOING MEANS ARIZONA. THAT IS NOW DISCLOSED. THEY TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS IN THE ARIZONA. THAT’S ALL.
Tamala Krsna: Take photographs where?
Hari-sauri: In Arizona. There’s an article, and it showed a picture of Mars and it compared, there’s supposed to be this canyon four miles deep. So they said it compares to the Grand Canyon in Arizona, like that. So Prabhupada said that by even mentioning Arizona they’ve revealed themselves. And he told one story about, there’s a man, he heard a noise in his room, and he said, “Ah, who is that?” And immediately the reply came, “Oh, I’m not stealing.” So even without asking, they’ve revealed themselves by saying Arizona, even mentioning Arizona.
Prabhupada: WHY THESE RASCALS COMPARE IT WITH ARIZONA? AS IF THERE IS NO OTHER PLACE IN THE WORLD. EVERYTHING THEY ARE DOING IN ARIZONA. ALL PHOTOGRAPH IN THIS PLACE. NOW THEY HAVE BEEN CAUGHT. I WAS ALWAYS PROTESTING, “THESE RASCALS HAVE NEVER GONE.” FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS I’VE PROTESTED. WHENEVER THEY ASKED ME, I SAY STRAIGHTLY, “IT IS ALL CHILDISH. THEY HAVE NEVER GONE, NEITHER THEY’LL BE ABLE TO GO.” THAT HAS BEEN PROOF AVAILABLE. NOW THEY DO NOT TALK ABOUT IT. THAT IS FINISHED, ALL PROPAGANDA, FINISHED. Now they have taken another…
Tamala Krsna: Mars.
Prabhupada: …to keep their service in order. This is going on, all cheating. To keep people in darkness and exploit them. The so-called swamis exploiting, yogis exploiting, politician exploiting, scientists exploiting, philosophers exploiting. What is the position of the world? And this is the opportunity, human life, to know everything, to solve all the problems. They are not given the opportunity, they are kept in darkness. The demons. “There is no God, science is everything, life is produced from chemicals, and there is no living entities on other planets.” They are simply show. This planet is full of…, it is all scientists, and they are vacant. And we have to believe that. Perhaps for the first time I am raising protest against all this nonsense.
751128SB.DEL Lectures
yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutejya yanti bhutani
mad-yajino ‘pi yanti mam
You can utilize this body properly for higher standard of life. You can go to the higher planetary system. The higher planetary system begins from the sun. That is another subject matter. But so far we get information from Srimad-Bhagavatam, there sun, then moon, according to Bhagavatam. And I think… We were talking about these things, that whether the moon is the first planet or the sun is the first planet. So far we understand from Vedic literature, the moon is the second planet. The sun is the first planet. If we consider like that, then moon is beyond the sun planet. The estimation is there in the Srimad-Bhag avatam: 1,600,000 miles above the sun the moon is situated. NOW, IF WE TAKE CONSIDERATION OF THE SUN PLANET SITUATED 93,000,000 MILES FROM EARTH, THEN ADD 1,600,000 MILES AGAIN, IT COMES TO 15,000,000…, 95,000,000’S MILES AWAY FROM THE EARTHLY PLANET. AND HOW YOU CAN REACH THERE IN FOUR DAYS, 95,000,000 MILES AWAY? IF WE APPLY OUR COMMON SENSE, THEN IT APPEARS THEY HAVE NEVER GONE TO THE MOON PLANET. IT IS ALL BOGUS PROPAGANDA. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.
SB 8.18.5 P Lord Vamanadeva, the Dwarf Incarnation
Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, an expert astrologer, explains the word naksatra-taradyah. The word naksatra means “the stars,” the word tara in this context refers to the planets, and adyah means “the first one specifically mentioned.” AMONG THE PLANETS, THE FIRST IS SURYA, THE SUN, NOT THE MOON. Therefore, according to the Vedic version, the modern astronomer’s proposition that the moon is nearest to the earth should not be accepted. The chronological order in which people all over the world refer to the days of the week–Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday–corresponds to the Vedic order of the planets and thus circumstantiates the Vedic version. Apart from this, when the Lord appeared the planets and stars became situated very auspiciously, according to astrological calculations, to celebrate the birth of the Lord.
740620BG.GER Lectures
Prabhupada: Yes. (translator reads German translation) So our natural tendency is to go to other, better planets. Therefore people are trying to go to the moon planet. Similarly, you can go to the sun planet, heavenly planet. There are so many. But the information is, even though you reach the topmost planet of this universe, still, there the four principles of material life, namely, birth, death, old age and disease, are there. So we can go to the topmost planet. There is process how to go.
urdhvam gacchanti sattva-stha
madhye tisthanti rajasah
jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha
adho gacchanti tamasah
If you keep yourself in sattva-guna, or in the modes of goodness, you are promoted to the higher planetary system. Even to the topmost planetary system. That is called urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah. And if you keep yourself in the modes of passion, you shall remain within the middle planetary system. This is middle planetary system. This earthly planet, it is called Bhurloka. Then, above this, there is Bhuvarloka. Then, above that, Svargaloka. That is heavenly planets. The heavenly planets begins from the moon planet. Jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. And those who are in the modes of darkness, they go down, down, down. The animal life is also amongst the down, I mean to say, modes of life. So this human form of life is a chance to make our choice where we shall go next, in the higher or in the lower, or we shall remain here. So how to go to the higher planetary system, that is also mentioned. Yanti deva-vrata devan. Read this.
Satsvarupa:
yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutani yanti bhutejya
yanti mad-yajino ‘pi mam
(German translator reads translation)
Prabhupada: So, if we like, we can go to the higher planetary system, heavenly planetary system. Just like we are trying to go to the moon planet, but we have not been successful. In this way we cannot go there. Each planet, each and every planet, has got different atmosphere. SO UNLESS YOUR BODY IS COMPLETELY COMPETENT TO LIVE IN SUCH PLANET, YOU CANNOT GO THERE. JUST LIKE THE SCIENTISTS SAY THAT IN THE MOON PLANET THE TEMPERATURE IS TWO HUNDRED DEGREES BELOW ZERO. Similarly, in the sun planet the temperature is very, very high, hundred and thousand times degrees above the normal. So in this way, every planet has got different atmosphere, different temperature, different standard of life, different duration of life. So one has to become competent to transfer himself in a particular type of planet. So we, as spirit soul, dehi, the possessor of this body… Dehi means one who possesses this body, or the occupier of the body, the spirit soul. That is eternal. Changing body only, but eternal. Therefore we should not be interested to these different types of temporary body. That is not very good intelligence. So we have to prepare ourself. If we want… There is a full description of each and every planet. And we can prepare ourself according to our desire, which planet we wish to go. But Krsna says, mad-yajino ‘pi yanti mam. “Persons who are engaged in My occupational duties, they will come to Me.”
721027SB.VRN Lectures
So to become Krsna conscious, that is the highest perfection of life. Param Brahman. Param Brahman. Brahman, impersonal effulgence. Just like the sunshine. Then localized sun, the sun globe. Then further, if you able to enter the sun globe, you’ll find there is a predominating deity. There are also cities and palaces–everything, just like this planet. But this planet is made prominently of earth, and that planet is one of the elements, material elements, earth, water, fire, air. So if this planet is made of earth, why not other planet made of fire? WHAT IS THE SCIENTIFIC REASON TO DENY IT? BECAUSE I CANNOT LIVE IN THE FIRE, IT DOES NOT MEAN OTHER LIVING ENTITIES CANNOT LIVE THERE. THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF LIVING ENTITIES. JUST LIKE YOU CANNOT LIVE WITHIN THE WATER, WITHIN THE OCEAN, BUT THERE ARE OTHER LIVING ENTITIES… JUST LIKE FISH. THEY LIVE VERY COMFORTABLY WITHIN THE WATER. SO WHY SHOULD WE CONCLUDE THAT THERE IS NO LIFE IN THE SUN PLANET OR MOON PLANET? THIS IS NOT PERFECT KNOWLEDGE. FROM VEDIC BOOKS WE CAN UNDERSTAND THAT THIS MOON PLANET IS ONE OF THE HEAVENLY PLANETS AND PEOPLE LIVE THERE. THEY ARE DEMIGODS. THEIR DURATION OF LIFE IS VERY LONG. And one can go to that planet by performing the rituals. They are described. In the Bhagavad-gita also it is said, yanti deva-vrata devan. If you are serious to go to the planets where demigods live, you can go. There are rules and regulations, rituals. Just like if you want to pass law examination, you prepare for that examination, and you pass, you become a lawyer. You become an engineer. Similarly, any planet you want to go, you prepare in this life. Don’t degrade yourself to become again cats and dogs, but you prepare yourself to be promoted to the other, higher planetary system… As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah. You can go there.
Krsna says,
yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutani yanti bhutejya
yanti mad-yajino ‘pi mam
So there is another planet… Not another planet, another nature, sanatana. Paras tasmat tu bhavo ‘nyo ‘vyakto ‘vyaktat sanatanah. There is another nature, eternal nature. That is called Vaikunthaloka. Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama. Every dhama, every place, is Krsna’s. He’s the supreme proprietor. Sarva-loka-mahesvaram. “I am the proprietor.” But there are differentiation, param dhama and aparam dhama. This is aparam dhama. This material world is aparam dhama, inferior nature. These are stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param. Itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param. There is another prakrti, another nature. There is Vaikunthaloka. Not one, two, but millions, unlimited. And the topmost planet is called Goloka Vrndavana. That is mad-dhama, Krsna says, or tad-dhama.
731226SB.LA Lectures
So there is a Pitrloka, Yamaloka. Just like the moon planet, we are trying to go there, but there are different lokas, planets, and you can go, not by the sputnik, by force. No. You’ll have to qualify yourself. Just like to come to your country, to take the permanent visa, I had to qualify in so many ways, the immigration department, not by force. Even in this planet, you cannot enter any country without being permitted. How you can enter other planets? Simply by force? No, that is not possible. You have to qualify yourself. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Yanti deva-vrata devan. A person can go to the planets of the demigods, devan. There are many demigods: Indra, Candra, Varuna, Vayu. Brahmaloka, Prajapatiloka, Siddhaloka–they are in the higher planetary systems. This is… We are now situated in the middle, Bhurloka. It is called Bhurloka. Above this, there is Bhuvarloka. Above that, Svarloka, Janaloka, Maharloka, Satyaloka, like that, urdhvaloka. They are higher planetary… Then middle. And then lower planetary system. URDHVAM GACCHANTI SATTVA-STHAH. IF YOU DEVELOP SATTVA-GUNA, THE QUALITY OF GOODNESS, THEN ACCORDING TO YOUR DEGREE OF GOODNESS, YOU GET PROMOTED TO THE HIGHER PLANETS. URDHVAM GACCHANTI SATTVA-STHA MADHYE TISTHANTI RAJASAH. If you are in the passion modes, then you stay here in this middle planetary system. And jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. Those who are in the most abominable condition of life, adho gacchanti, they go down. Not only the down planetary system, but even to the animal kingdom, the beasts, birds, trees, plants, aquatics. You have to go.
731231SB.LA Lectures
So Maharaja Pariksit was so exalted king that by his invitation, the demigods would come and public could see. That was possible. That is stated here. He was so, I mean to say, exalted king, he could invite. And the kings also were invited. Just like Maharaja Yudhisthira went. That was interplanetary exchange. That is now not… YOU CANNOT GO BY THE SPUTNIKS TO THE HEAVENLY PLANET. THE MOON PLANET IS ALSO ONE OF THE HEAVENLY PLANET. OR THE OTHER PLANETS. THEY ARE ALL HEAVENLY PLANETS. URDHVAM. URDHVAM GACCHANTI SATTVA-STHAH. WHEN YOU ARE COMPETENT, FIT, FOR GOING THERE, THEN YOU CAN GO THERE. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Yanti deva-vrata devan pitrn yanti pitr-vratah, bhutejya yanti… You can go, but you must be qualified, pitr-vratah, deva-vratah. Similarly, you can go to Krsna also if you are krsna-vratah. Mad-yajino ‘pi yanti mam. What to speak of going to other planets, if one is qualified, if one is pure devotee, Krsna says, “He also comes to Me.” So this exchange of going and coming is not difficult, provided a person is qualified. Not a cat and dog can go. That is not possible.
710318SB.BOM Lectures
THE MATERIAL SCIENTISTS, THEY HAVE NO INFORMATION OF ATMA. THEREFORE THEY THINK THAT IN THE MOON PLANET THERE IS NO LIFE, IN THE SUN PLANET THERE IS NO LIFE. SIMPLY… THIS IS KUPA-MANDUKA-NYAYA. DR. FROG PHD., HE’S THINKING IN HIS OWN WAY. DR. FROG THINKS THAT THIS THREE FEET DIMENSION OF THE WELL IS ALL IN ALL, THERE CANNOT BE ANYTHING. These rascal philosopher and rascal scientist, they think in that way, Dr. Frog. There cannot be Atlantic Ocean. That three feet dimension, well water is sufficient. Therefore we have to receive knowledge from authorities. We cannot speculate.
760731rc.par Conversations
Harikesa: “Every man everywhere is trying to obtain the greatest amount of sense enjoyment by various endeavors. Some of them are busy engaged in trade, industry, economic development, political supremacy, etc., and some of them are engaged in fruitive work to become happy in the next life by attaining higher planets. IT IS SAID THAT IN THE MOON THE INHABITANTS ARE FIT FOR GREATER SENSE ENJOYMENT BY DRINKING SOMA-RASA, and the Pitrloka is obtained by good charitable work. So there are various programs for sense enjoyment, either during this life or in the life after death.”
Prabhupada: SUCH A PLEASING PLANET, AND THESE RASCALS SAY THERE IS NO LIFE. THE MOON IS DESCRIBED EVERYWHERE, THE MOST PLEASING PLANET. ACTUALLY, WHEN THERE IS MOON IN THE SKY, HOW IT IS PLEASING. SO THAT PLANET IS MEANT FOR THE HIGH-CLASS PIOUS PERSONS, AND THEY GET THEIR LIFE FOR TEN THOUSANDS OF YEARS. THEY LIVE VERY COMFORTABLY, DRINK SOMA-RASA. THESE ARE THE DESCRIPTIONS WE GET FROM SASTRA. AND THESE RASCALS SAY IT IS DESERT. AND WE HAVE TO BELIEVE THEM. AND PRACTICALLY WE SEE HOW PLEASING IT IS. AS SOON AS THE MOON PLANET IS THERE, THE WHOLE ATMOSPHERE BECOMES PLEASING. AND IT IS DESERT. AND WE HAVE TO BELIEVE THESE RASCAL SCIENTISTS AND DISREGARD THE DESCRIPTION OF THE SASTRA. WHAT DO YOU THINK? IS THAT VERY GOOD INTELLIGENCE?
Devotee: No.
Prabhupada: WE DISREGARD THE STATEMENT OF VYASADEVA, AND WE HAVE TO ACCEPT THE STATEMENT OF A RASCAL DRUNKARD. (LAUGHTER) WE ARE NOT SO UNFORTUNATE. The unfortunate, they can believe that, we cannot believe.
I am unable to find anything concocted by Mahesh Raja Prabhu writings BUT the quotes from Srila Prabhupada’s BOOKS, and Lectures in answering the questions put forth by various participants on this web site to which Muddha Matie – bewildered conditioned Jivas to name a few such as Sudharsana das vanacari, SG, including present corrupted Isckon GBC gurus / leaders and Gaudiya Maths gurus of all sorts refuse and reject the Initiating Instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada.
I wonder WHY except one reason. That is because these people are yearning Labha, Puja and Prathistha and thus accepting only Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions what it suits their various agenda.
Is my inference correct ?
” One’s aim of life should be to serve the acaryas” as Srila Prabhupada says 721020ND.VRN Lectures.
But who is this present day acarya ? Is it NOT HDG. Srila Prabhupada Himself ?
Yes, He is as Srila Prabhupada says 721020ND.VRN Lectures ;
” But in this life, if we develop Krsna consciousness by association of devotees… As Narottama dasa Thakura has sung, tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa. One’s aim of life should be to serve the acaryas. Acarya upasanam. So our acarya in the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya, the sri-rupa sanatana bhatta-raghunatha, sri-jiva gopala-bhatta dasa-raghunatha, the Six Gosvamins, and if we associate with them… THIS BOOK, NECTAR OF DEVOTION, BHAKTI-RASAMRTA-SINDHU, IF YOU READ REGULARLY, TRY TO UNDERSTAND, THIS MEANS YOU ARE ASSOCIATING WITH SRILA RUPA GOSVAMI DIRECTLY. AND IF YOU ACT ACCORDINGLY, THEN YOU ARE SERVING THEIR LOTUS FEET. TANDERA CARANA-SEVI-BHAKTA-SANE VASA. ”
Similarly IF we follow the Instructions – VANI of HDG. Srila Prabhupada without any material motive, it means we are associating with Srila Prabhupada directly and we act accordingly, then we are serving Srila Prabhupada’s Lotus Feet to make our lives sublime.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.