“In 1971, during his historic visit to the Soviet Union, Srila Prabhupada was introduced to Professor Grigoriy Kotovsky, head of the India Department at the U.S.S.R. Academy of Sciences and chairman of the Indian studies department at the University of Moscow. “
Srila Prabhupada, Moscow, 22 June 1971: […] The actual words in Bengali are kiba vipra, kiba nyasi, sudra kene naya. Do you understand a little Bengali?
Prof. Kotovsky: A little.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, as a vibration. Yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei ‘guru’ haya. “Anyone who understands the science of Krishna can become a spiritual master.” (Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya 8.128)
Prof. Kotovsky: But by creating brahmanas from different social classes of society, you deny the old prescription of the Hindu scriptures.
Srila Prabhupada: No, I establish it.
Prof. Kotovsky: According to all scriptures–the Puranas, etc.–every member of one of these four classes of varnas has to be born within it.
Srila Prabhupada: No, no, no, no.
Prof. Kotovsky: That is the foundation of all the varnas…
Srila Prabhupada: No, no. I am sorry.
Prof. Kotovsky: The foundation of all the varnas…
Srila Prabhupada: You have spoken incorrectly. With great respect I beg to submit that you are not speaking correctly. In the Bhagavad-gita (4.13) it is stated, catur-varnyam maya-srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah. “These four orders of brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas, and sudras were created by Me according to quality and work.” There is no mention of birth.
Prof. Kotovsky: I agree with you that this is the addition of later brahmanas who tried to perpetuate these qualities.
Srila Prabhupada: That has killed the Indian culture. Otherwise there would have been no necessity of the division of part of India into Pakistan. Not only that, but from the historical point of view this whole planet was Bharata-varsa, and it was controlled by one flag up to the time of Maharaja Pariksit.
Then it gradually separated. This is history. Lately they have separated Pakistan. So Bharata-varsa is now crippled into a small piece of land. Otherwise, according to Vedic scripture, this whole planet is called Bharata-varsa. Formerly it was named Ilavrta-varsa. But since Emperor Bharata ruled this planet, it is called Bharata-varsa. So this culture, Krishna consciousness, was always existent.
Consider any religion–Christian, Muhammadan, Jewish. They are at most two to three thousand years old. But you cannot trace out the beginning of this Vedic scripture. It is therefore called sanatana, eternal. This culture is for this whole human society. It is not a religious faith.
Religious faith you can change, but real dharma you cannot change. Try to understand Krishna. In the Bhagavad-gita (18.66) He says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: “Give up all other forms of religion and just surrender to Me.” That is real knowledge–to surrender to the Supreme. You or I–anyone–is surrendered to someone. That is a fact. Our life is by surrender, is it not? Do you disagree with this point?
Prof. Kotovsky: To some extent you surrender.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, to the full extent.
Prof. Kotovsky: You have to surrender to the society, for instance. To the whole people.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, to the whole people, or to the state or to the king or the government or whatever you say. This surrender must be there.
Prof. Kotovsky: The only difficulty is that we cannot half surrender to a government or a king. The principal difference is of surrender to a king, to a person, or to the society.
Srila Prabhupada: No, that is only a change of color. But the principle of surrender is there. Whether you surrender to monarchy, democracy, aristocracy, or dictatorship, you have to surrender; that is a fact. Without surrender there is no life. It is not possible.
So we are educating people to surrender to the Supreme, wherefrom you get all protection, just as Krishna says (sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja). No one can say, “No, I am not surrendered to anyone.” Not a single person. The difference is where he surrenders. The ultimate surrendering object is Krishna.
Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita (7.19) Krishna says, bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate: “After surrendering to so many things birth after birth, when one is factually wise he surrenders unto Me.” Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah: “Such a mahatma is very rare.”
Science of Self Realization, Ch 6
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