Mr. O’Grady, May 23, 1974, Rome: […] Your edition of the Bhagavad-gita is very nice.
Srila Prabhupada: It is the fifth edition in two years.
Mr. O’Grady: In which country has the Hare Krsna movement been the most successful?
Srila Prabhupada: Everywhere. In Africa, America, Canada, Japan, China. But actually it has been most successful in America. Many Americans have taken to Krsna consciousness.
Mr. O’Grady: What about here in Rome? Have you had problems with the police?
Srila Prabhupada: We have problems everywhere. Police sometimes harass us, but usually they become tired and eventually don’t do anything. [Laughter.]
Mr. O’Grady: The system give up? That’s marvelous. I feel very tired of the system myself. Something is wrong with the present state of affairs. Maybe you can give me some advice on how to beat the system.
Srila Prabhupada: You Irish people! You are never tired of fighting.
Mr. O’Grady: No. [Laughter.] It’s inside us.
Srila Prabhupada: Actually, the fighting has been going on constantly.
Mr. O’Grady: Well, what do you suggest we do about it? I mean, is it morally correct for me to be sitting here…
Srila Prabhupada: As long as we remain illusioned by the bodily conception of life, thinking we are these bodies, one man thinking “I am Irish,” another thinking “I am Italian,” “… American,” “… Indian,” and so on–as long as this goes on, the fighting will go on. You cannot stop fighting between dogs and cats. Why do they fight? The dog simply thinks, “I am a big dog.” And the cat thinks, “I am a big cat.” In the same way, if we think, “I am an Irishman” or “I am an Englishman,” then we are no better than the cats and dogs. As long as people remain in a bodily conception of life, there will be fighting.
Mr. O’Grady: What was Mahatma Gandhi fighting in the House of Commons?
Srila Prabhupada: That was another dog-ism. There is no difference. A dog thinks, “I am a dog,” because he has the body of a dog. If I am thinking that I am Indian because this body was born on Indian soil, then how am I different from the dog? The bodily conception of life is simply animalism. When we understand that we are not these bodies but are spirit souls, there will be peace. There cannot be any peace otherwise. Sa eva go-kharah. The Vedic literatures state that a person in the bodily concept of life is exactly like a cow or an ass. People have to transcend this inferior conception of the self. How is that done?
mam ca yo ‘vyabhicarena
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate
“One who engages in the spiritual activities of unalloyed devotional service at once transcends the modes of material nature and is elevated to the spiritual platform.” (Bhagavad-gita 14.25)
In our society, there are many Mexicans, Canadians, Indians, Jews, and Muslims, but they no longer consider themselves Muslims, Christians, Jews, or whatever. They are all servants of Krsna. That is Brahman realization.
Mr. O’Grady: That’s giving it a name also.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, a name must be there. But although, for example, your name is different from that of another Irishman, you nonetheless all feel that you are Irish. One’s name may be different, but that doesn’t matter. The quality should be one. That is required. When we acquire Krsna’s quality, then, despite different names, there will be peace. That is called so ‘ham. The names of different people in a nation may be different, but all the people feel the same nationality. Varieties may exist, but if the quality is the same, that is oneness, brahma-bhuta.
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