BY: B. RADHA-GOVINDA
Apr 10, MIAMI, FLORIDA, USA — Seeing Rama prabhu’s article I became inspired to write the following Vyasa Puja offering to Jayadvaita Swami (for whenever is the day he commemorates to be his birthday):
My dear Jayadvaita Swami, you’re a puffed up piece of shit.
Without Srila Prabhupada’s authorization, you have changed our Guru Maharaja’s books bit by bit.
Your mind’s concocted contamination that you’re better than everyone else, You’ve placed yourself much too highly, as if sitting on a big high shelf.
Sitting on your stupid shelf you think you know it all.
My dear poor foolish crazy Godbrother, don’t you realize you’ve had a philosophical fall?You’re just so G-damned hellishly proud, your words and attitude says it all, Krishna’s devotees are trying to tell you things for years, Don’t you realize it’s Krishna’s call?
But you don’t care, your pride pushes you on, changing Srila Prabhupada’s books bit by bit.
Hopefully one day you will wake up to your nonsense and remove your abominable shit.
Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krishna
Well said, straight to the point. A little hefty-crafty but still valid.
There is absolutely NO excuse of changing Srila Prabhupadas original books.
The devil of book-changes, going against his own spiritual masters instruction, is nothing but a puffed up piece of sh*t. Other even depict him as demoniac.
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=18455
Dear respected Prabhus/Matajis,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Shrila Prabhupada.
I know the book changing controversy has been going on a LONG time. I had a cursory look at some of the arguements for and against a good while ago but I’m really not up to speed. Could some of you please explain to me, and others who wouldn’t be familiar with what’s at stake, how you see it and what significant changes have been made. Thanks,
Your servant,
Kirtan Das
So, Jayadvaita Swami, the devotees who are disciples , grand disciples and grand grand disciples of HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami ( Srila Prabhupada ) are
condemning you for making changes to his books.
They have condemned you as a ” PIECE OF SHIT “. an American slang we believe
for someone who is lower than a Mleccha or a dog eating Candala. You see how degraded you have become.
For years they have been telling you not to make any changes to Srila Prabhupada’s
spoken words in his books but like a village idiot you have been ignorant not to
listen. What possible reason could you have for not listening. Is there some grand
plan by you and your cohorts ( GBC ) to ” remake” the Iskcon society as being
established or founded by these ungrateful GBC’s and yourself as being the writer
of his books and in the process remove Srila Prabhupada completely as the founder Acharya and author of his own books. Just thinking out loud, Jayadvaita Swami. One can never know what goes on in the twisted mind of some of these so called devotees.
If you have any dignity, shame and honesty etc. ( due to proper upbring ) and love,
respect and eternal gratitude with humility for your spiritual master for opening
your eyes and giving you that chance to go back home, back to Godhead, then you
will not continue with this undignified act of making changes to his books. No
right thinking humble devotee will do what you have done after Srila Prabhupada
departure. He simply did not give you the permission to do so.
It will be proper and wise for you to stop this book changing nonsence and revert
to HDG original books or you can maintain your nonsence and forever be
condemned by his disciples.
Whatever PRETENSION you have about yourself, they are worth 2 cents only
to you. Give it a thought !
Hare Krsna .
I “upgraded” the poem a bit, so here it is with a few changes:
My dear Jayadvaita Swami, you’re a puffed up piece of shit
Without Srila Prabhupada’s authorization, you have changed our Guru Maharaja’s books bit by bit
Your mind’s concocted contamination that you’re better than everyone else,
You’ve placed yourself much too highly, on your self-concocted shelf
Sitting on your big high shelf you think you know it all,
My dear poor foolish crazy Godbrother, don’t you realize you’re very small?
You’re just so G-damned hellishly proud, your words and attitude says it all,
Krsna’s devotees are trying to tell you things for years, Don’t you realize it’s the Supreme Lord’s call?
But you don’t care, your pride pushes you on, changing Srila Prabhupada’s books bit by bit
Hopefully one day you will wake up to your nonsense and remove your abominable shit.
Normally, I would not write out such a word publically, but because of what Jayadvaita has done – the severity of it, along with his being so puffed up, that he become practically a monster if anyone tries to approach him even with humble mood to ask about why he made the changes he did – plus his overall, (puffed up) “better than thou,” (“better than everyone”) attitude that he has exhibited for so many years, since at least the 1970s, I ended up writing the poem. It actually flowed spontaneously; thus, my sending it in “as is” my now making the changes I did.
Kirtan prabhu, I’m going to reply to you in a separate comment:
Dear Kirtan prabhu,
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMFO I hope you are well.
There are definitely many devotees so much more qualified than me to give thorough explain to you Jayadvaita’s making the changes he has made to practically all, if not all of Srila Prabhupada’s books; some changes made in such a way where Jayadvaita even changes the philosophy.
While Srila Prabhupada was present on the planet, some changes in His books came to His attention, Srila Prabhupada expressing His upset, saying “Rascal editors.” Srila Prabhupada said that the changes these editors made, should be changed (back) to what had originally been written.
For one to make a change to any author’s books without the author’s permission is simply not done, what to speak of when the author is Krsna’s pure devotee, empowered by Krsna, specifically for presenting these books on behalf of Krsna, Who is trying to save people through His Pure Devotee and the books presented through His Pure Devotee.
Srila Prabhupada when asked by a devotee why it was He (Srila Prabhupada) was reading His own books, replied that it was Krsna Who had dictated the books; that Srila Prabhupada was simply taking and writing down the dictation from Krsna.
There is a verse in the Srimad Bhagavatam (1.5.11) which explains, “That literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc., of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world’s misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest.”
So there are so many things which can be said, the changes listed – which apparently many devotees have done – but this SB 1.5.11 verse explains it all.
What disciple would dare!!! without being instructed by or taking permission from their Guru Maharaja to make the kinds of changes Jayadvaita has to their Guru Maharaja’s books? That Jayadvaita has done this, is an abomination, one we know that Srila Prabhupada would not be happy with at all.
I hope all is well.
Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krsna
I myself am not on the “up and up” regarding the various changes, but I am aware of at least some of the changes made to Srila Prabhupada’s “Bhagavad Gita As It Is.”
I know the book changing controversy has been going on a LONG time. I had a cursory look at some of the arguements for and against a good while ago but I’m really not up to speed. Could some of you please explain to me, and others who wouldn’t be familiar with what’s at stake, how you see it and what significant changes have been made. Thanks,
Tamoharadasa said: 14. April 2011 at 4:18 am
GBC elected guru HH Gour Govinda Swami whom Tamoharadasa holds in high esteem did not follow Srila Prabhupada’s authorized ritvik system. So he certainly objected to it.
GBC elected guruHH Gour Govinda Swami and his GBC buddies did.
GBC elected guru HH Gour Govinda Swami supported this same “bogus process” . That’s where he got his guru certification.
Dear “July 9th” prabhu,
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMFO
You expressed your having a problem with my name and how I sign it, I’ll explain for you what’s what, so I can clear up any problems you have in this regard:
My name is Bhaktivedanta Radha-Govinda Swami. When I write to devotees, I sign my name as either Dasi, B. Radha-Govinda or Your servant, B. Radha-Govinda.
I used to sign, Dasi, Radha-Govinda Swami, but changed doing so when a devotee wrote expressing his confusion in thinking I was Radha-Govinda Swami from Bihar, (DESPITE MY PUTTING “DASI”. He later wrote back saying that he did see “Dasi,” and said he should have realized from that, that there was no way I “was trying to pretend to be” Radha-Govinda Swami from Bihar). So there would be NO CONFUSION for any more of the devotees, I changed the way I signed things to devotees: I took off “Swami” and put “B.” before “Radha-Govinda,” changing my signature to Dasi, B. Radha-Govinda, or Your servant, B. Radha-Govinda. Since that time when this devotee wrote me in that regard, it’s been very rare when I’ve written something to someone and used “Swami” after Radha-Govinda. (I write formal – legal – emails using Swami” because “Swami” IS my legal last name.)
My suggestion “July 9th” is BEFORE you JUDGE a person, and WRITE what YOU attribute as being “their motives,” what you THINK “are” “the reason(s) for ‘why’ they are doing something” – as per your (previously words written), “sometimes she calls herself swami sometimes not, depends which is going to bring more attention to herself at a particular time” – it might be BETTER (for YOU) that you TRY to FIND OUT from THE PERSON THEMSELVES WHY they are doing what they are. (Do you know the story regarding the name of the book “Sajahan” and how so many people SPECULATED as to WHY the author gave the book it’s name? So many people had their own specific speculations, but ONLY when the author was asked (and he told why) did people come to KNOW the reason.)
You expressed having a problem with my name. May I ask you WHY it is you can’t seem to write what your name is? that you write behind the name “July 9th”? What is YOUR reason for NOT using your name, and INSTEAD using “July 9th”?
You wrote, “However B. Radha-Govinda is also changing the philosophy by her tricks of deception. Most devotees when they see the name B. Radha-Govinda Swami they assume she is a he because Prabhupada has clearly stated the following…”
Sorry to disappoint you, but I’m not changing the philosophy, nor am I “deceiving” anyone; (“her tricks of deception”). It’s not clear to me, what you mean by “changing the philosophy, ‘by her tricks of deception'” because you go right into “Most devotees when they see the name B. Radha-Govinda Swami they assume she is a he”
First of all, I’ve been signing, “B. Radha-Govinda”. But going to your statement, are you TRYING to say that I’m “trying to deceive people by ‘PRETENDING’ I’m “a man”?
If this is what you’re TRYING to say, you’re WRONG! I’m NOT trying to ‘pretend’ ‘to be a man’. Even IF I was to be signing something with Radha-Govinda Swami, Radha-Govinda Swami is my name, so I would be USING MY!!! name. (So why is that a problem to you?) If I was to put or use a DIFFERENT name, then THAT would be “tricks of deception.” MANY devotees already KNOW that the person signing B. Radha-Govinda (with or without the “Swami”) is in a female body.
If you mean by your statement “However B. Radha-Govinda is also changing the philosophy by her tricks of deception…because Prabhupada has clearly stated the following…” and you’re referring to my having formally taken sannyas, then this is not a question of deceiving anyone (because I’m NOT “hiding” it), but a matter of you and other devotees feeling that I’m “doing something different from” or “going against” what Srila Prabhupada stated either verbally or in writing. So that is (also) a DIFFERENT matter than “tricks of deception.”
Go to SB 3.24.40 and see what Srila Prabhupada wrote about why it is women don’t take (formal) sannyas. (Women are (SUPPOSED) to BE PROTECTED. I won’t even dare to get into how SO MANY (if not MOST) women were NOT!!! protected within ISKCON, and surely that is NOT “due to” or “because of” Srila Prabhupada; but rather, because SO MANY male devotees did NOT have ANY!!! proper!!! understanding of the philosophy. (And no, I’m NOT a feminist. I’m simply stating THE facts!!!)
I can say many things about why it is I formally took sannyas, in knowledge of Srila Prabhupada’s purport here, although I appear to be in “contradiction” to what Srila Prabhupada said and wrote. (I was already shaved up and in white for many years that Srila Prabhupada was on the planet, my having given up my fiancee in making the choice to move into the temple, and taking a vow to not marry.)
I can say a lot, in terms of how I am NOT in contradiction of what Srila Prabhupada has written, but I’ve already written enough here.
The problem is that people ASSUME things (WRONGLY), just like you did here, “her tricks of deception” (as if I’m “purposefully” “trying to ‘deceive'” people) – although now your words are gone, but you know what you wrote, and some other devotees may have already seen. But I’m replying this for your sake, so instead of your having, (what to speak of posting) YOUR SPECULATIONS about someone else, why not ASK them? about why it is they are doing something, over which you have no knowledge, yet write your speculations. (You HAVE my email address, because you’ve ALREADY written to me something like over a year back.)
One doesn’t have to agree with another person’s conclusion, or what they have chosen to do, but we can AT LEAST BE PERSONAL (and caring) ENOUGH – if our motives are TRULY PURE in regards to trying to figure out, or understand why it is someone else has done something that we consider questionable – to GO AND ASK THEM!!! THEN we can at least with a better sense of fairness (if we are honest in heart) can come to some conclusion about them, be we right or wrong; but AT LEAST we’ve TRIED!
You don’t know me, and yet you (foolishly) wrote what you attributed as being “my motives” – though now it is no longer on your post.
In regards to you NOT using your name, anyone (if foolish enough) could give SO MANY SPECULATIONS: “S/He might be a child molester, and doesn’t want anyone to know that it’s hir (XY) posting.” “Oh, it’s probably Z, who’s taking crack. No one takes hir seriously so s/he’s using that name to hide behind for emailing and posting.” Or, “It’s L Dasi posting stuff, but she doesn’t want her husband to know she’s posting,” or vice-versa; “It’s gotta be J Das, because you know his wife can’t stand his getting into this kind of computer stuff”). Or, someone could come to the speculated conclusion that you’re a coward, writing your things, but are afraid to let anyone know who it is that’s posting. I’m not saying this is your reason: I’m simply giving an example of how someone could make ANY speculation regarding your “motives” for using “July 9th” in writing your emails and in posting rather than not writing your name. This applies to ANYONE’s “motives”. And you my friend, have made a BIG MISTAKE about mine.
To your (previous) “In sum – not much difference between HH Jayadvaita Swam, B. Radha-Govinda (swamini or ex-swamini?)” I’m still following my vows and haven’t given up the sannyas, and I still keep my sannyas name.
If your equating my formal taking of sannyas with what Jayadvaita is doing, it seems you have a big problem.
Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda (and for you), Swami
Hare Krsna
Dear Tamohara Prabhu,
I am a born-again ritvik, but I tell you what. Go lightly with B. Radha-Govinda Swami. When the chips are down, she is standing there beside you. She has more spunk than you and I put together.
She has sat in the temple room, full of demon, at the Sunday Feast, and said, “NO” to them, in front of EVERYBODY. What does that mean? That means, as you well know, you risk getting your ass kicked, right then and there.
She will tell the demons to their faces, what we have the courage only to write on paper. Would you say to their faces, “Prabhupada was poisoned,” or, “Prabhupada’s the guru,” or, “Your books are bogus,” if you risked getting an ass whipping?
Approach this mataji with respect. She belongs to Srila Prabhupada, in a very real sense. Very, very few are like her.
B. Radha-Govinda, (sometimes she calls herself swami sometimes not, depends which is going to bring more attention to herself at a particular time) has rightly attacked HH Jayadvaita Swami for changing Prabhupada’s books. We object because it is an attempt to change the philosophy of Krishna consciousness given to us by Srila Prabhupada. However B. Radha-Govinda is also changing the philosophy by her tricks of deception. Most devotees when they see the name B. Radha-Govinda Swami they assume she is a he because Prabhupada has clearly stated the following…
Then we have Tamohara dasa who introduces another change to the philosophy. He claims to be ritvik but lauds GBC elected guru HH Gour Govinda Swami (an anti-ritvik) as being “eternaly liberated” on the highest level of devotion. Yet it is clear that GBC elected guru HH Gour Govinda Swami’s behaviour is questionable and most importantly what he says and has written is contradictory to what Prabhupada has given us.
1) Srila Prabhupada’s tapes are useless for acquiring spiritual knowledge:
2) Srila Prabhupada’s books and those of the previous acharyas are useless for acquiring spiritual knowledge:
3) Srila Prabhupada’s philosophy is incomplete and limited by time, while GBC elected guru HH Gour Govinda Swami is bringing eternal, higher philosophy:
Not surprisingly the above is also contradictory to what GBC elected guru HH Gour Govinda Swami will also state, elsewhere.
In sum – not much difference between HH Jayadvaita Swam, B. Radha-Govinda (swamini or ex-swamini?) and Tamohara dasa, just different shades of bogusness.
PS: Srila Prabhupada wanted His female-bodied disciples to be protected, but so many of Srila Prabhupada’s male-bodied disciples (not all, but many, SO MANY), never understood this principle, NOR did they understand the concept of women being Mother.
You and other devotees are disturbed that I accepted the sannyas order, and LIVED according to the sannyas principles. Of course devotees get ticked, “How dare she do this. She’s bogus,” (and all the rest of the things said), yet these devotees NEVER consider that I was sent THROUGH ISKCON (the ISKCON GBC person, Bhaktitirtha, under whom I was serving) ALONE (NO ONE accompanying me), to the Middle East and the African continent to distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books and preach BY MYSELF. NO one considers the fact that in FOLLOWING MY INSTRUCTIONS, in rendering such services, my body got physically attacked MANY times. Devotees get upset, “She took sannyas,” but they NEVER get upset that a female-bodied disciple of Srila Prabhupada was sent ALONE – by herself – to render such services in the Middle East and Africa. (I’d love to see SOME of our ISKCON men doing such things, and I’m not speaking about going to places where there is ALREADY a SUPPORT system set into place: I’m talking about going “cold turkey”; ALONE with NO support system, where you just “get plopped” into a place and DEPEND WHOLLY AND SOLELY ON SRILA PRABHUPADA!!! AND KRSNA!!! and “figure it all out” how to go about your service, NOT knowing what is and isn’t going to happen in such CRAZY!!! places.
My ISKCON GBC AUTHORITY (Bhaktirtha) TOLD me to (formally) take sannyas (from him), so I followed my instruction. (He knew that I had already internally done so; and had been living under such vows since the early 1970s.)
So it may sound like “She’s ‘tooting’ her glories.” I’m not. I’m just sharing with you the facts, and how this all “came about.” (I later REJECTED the sannyas from BT, and retook from another Gaudiya Vaisnava sannyasi (who is a guru, not from ISKCON, and NOT Narayan Maharaj. I don’t give his name, because people will give criticism to him for having (re)given me the sannyas).
Now “July 9th” who doesn’t allow us to know what your name really is, you have the explanation. You can accept or not accept.
Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda (and for you), Swami
Hare Krsna
Simple as that!
What’s the matter dude, you can’t seem to find your name? Did you lose it somewhere, or is it that you are embarrassed with your intiation name that you can’t / don’t / won’t use it? Maybe you’re just a coward, who doesn’t want to let people know who it is posting up that which you send in.
Go look up Srila Bhaktivinode Thakor’s statement from Shri Chaitanya Siksamrta 2/4 (hint) strilokera grihastha ashrama o sthala visheshe vanaprastha (You can find the rest. Hmm; might be nice if you can find your name as well while you’re looking.)
Women weren’t offered in Vedic Culture, because there were men possessed of male qualities, who lived as proper men; thus, women protected and most happy to live according to their duties.
At times there will be a person who, by dint of consciousness, doesn’t fit into the designated “boxes,” thus… (So go figure out the rest.)
So dude, when will you come out from your hiding place, Mr. July 9th.? He who can’t give their name, gets upset when someone else does.
Your servant,
Dasi, B. Radha-Govinda (for you), SWAMI!!!
From Srila Prabhupada’s “Krsna Book,” “Delivering the Wives of the Brahmanas”:
“According to Vedic injunction, women are not allowed…nor are they allowed to live as brahmacarini in the asrama of the spiritual master.” Go figure it out “July 9th” (while you figure out what your name is).
You still can’t seem to answer that simple questions, “What’s your name?” (that you NEVER use in sending an email or posting up anything). Are you ashamed of your name or what?
(I’ve been quite heavy replying you, after having seen the extent to which Tamohara prabhu went with his lies posted – his and my comments given in reply to them now both (thankfully) removed. I say thankfully, because I don’t particularly “like” having to call someone out, especially publically, for being a liar, and the possibility that T… might have had to have sustained some reaction for writing such lies. After all, Bali Maharaj explained, (SB 8.20.4), “There is nothing more sinful than untruthfulness,” (and then went on to quote Mother Bhumi), “Because of this, mother earth once said, ‘I can bear any heavy thing except a person who is a liar’.”
Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda (for you), SWAMI
Hare Krsna
Ms. Noname, I’ve already replied you enough. If you have some complaint, go to Srila Prabhupada and speak to Him about what I did. Go ask Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur why He wrote what He did regarding jivas in female bodies and sannyas, Caitanya Siksamrta 4.2. (I don’t post it up, because you and people like you, would misunderstand.)Go talk to Gangamata Goswamini and tell her she’s a prostitute. Try to understand the purport of why Srila Prabhupada said this.
That’s your prerrogative to feel I’m “going against” what Srila Prabhupada said. In my taking into consideration all the factors involved, including what Srila Prabhupada has said, I know I’m not. You have no knowledge regarding the factors of my life, nor why I made the choice(s) I did, nor do you care, and nor do I feel any need, nor care to continue to give any more explanation to you, a person who comes to your own concocted assumptions about me. (By dint of what you’ve shown here and in emails from a Prabhupadanuga thread over a year ago, it suits logic that you do this with other people as well.)
The material world is such, that we are subjected to the foolish concoctions of others. Remember how Krsna was accused by Satrajit of killing Prasena and reasons given? Remember why Sita Devi was banished from Ayodhya? If such things can happen to the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His eternal Consort, then what to speak of an insignificant conditioned jiva like me.
You haven’t been able to reply to the simple questions, “What is your name?” “Why do you email and post using only a ‘hide-behind’ name, ‘July 9th’?”; thus logically someone could make various assumptions about you and your reason(s) for hiding behind a screen name, as opposed to using your own. So whatever hangups, be it your own cowardice, or something you’ve done that you feel you have to hide who you are, that when you want to email people, or post things ups, you feel you can’t reveal who you are – your not being able to write your own name, that’s your problem. I’ve taken alot of time to reply to the posts from such a “hide-behind” coward, and in one sense, a dishonest person; dishonest, in that you can’t won’t let anyone know who it is that is posting, (other than some made up name, “July 9th”). I will no longer be bothered to reply to someone, a “no-name,” who is so afraid that s/he can’t write hir name, and instead has to write emails and post things using a “hide behind” name. My understanding is that you’re a “he” but we’ll give all possibilities to you.
May Srila Prabhupada relieve you of your cowardice.
Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda (for you), Swami
Hare Krsna
B. Radha-Govinda Swaminie said:
No need since she never formally took sannyasa. It was a title given out of respect.
Since there is no record of Prabhupada even mentioning Gangamata (unless she is know by another name). For info on her we look elsewhere – so in a lecture entitled “Great Vaishava Women” to members of the International Network of Women and Religion (INWAR) at their headquarters in New York City.
Satyaraja prabhu states the following regarding Gangamata ..
Sri Caitanya Siksamrta 2.4
strilokera grhastha asrama o sthala visese vanaprastha vyatita anya kona asrama svikarya naya kona asadharanabhaktisampanna stri vidya dharma o samarthya labha karatah yadi brahmacarya va sannyasa asrama grahana kariya saphalya labha kariya thakena va labha karena taha sadharanataha komala sraddha komala sarira, komala buddhi stri jatira pakshe vidhi nahe
“There are no asramas acceptable by women other then the grhastha asrama or in specific cases as per time, place and circumstance the vanaprastha ashrama. Of course there can be some exceptional rare cases when an extraordinary and greatly advanced woman in bhakti can accept the brahmacarya and sannyasa asramas and make a success of her spiritual life.
I’ve never posted up this quote from Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, because some devotees would misunderstand, their thinking that I’m considering myself in such catagory of women Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur was referring to; “extraordinary greatly advanced. woman in bhakti.” I’m simply a jiva encased presently in female body, who by dint of circumstance formally accepted sannyas, take what I did seriously, and live accordingly. As stated earlier, unless Srila Prabhupada gives indication that He wants me to change this – my already having lived for many years prior to the formal acceptance of sannyas, as a renunciate (Srila Prabhupada’s having given His approval of my being in white with shaved head) – I’m not going to make any change.
I use my name. You don’t. I’m not ashamed of my name. In fact, Srila Prabhupada and Sri Sri Radha-Govinda are SO WONDERFUL, that I couldn’t be possessed of a better name, Their having allowed me to serve Their Holy Lotus Feet, even through such name.
Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda Swami
Hare Krsna
It is interesting to note that specifically in regard to Bhaktivinoda Thakura, which is what we are dealing with in the quote given from the Sri Caitanya Siksamrta 2.4. Srila Prabhupada does emphatically state:
It is one thing to argue that it is fine to read books other than those directly written and translated by Srila Prabhupada, however it is a completely different matter to try and use these outside teachings to supersede those teachings which have been given by Srila Prabhupada on this subject …
To your Apr 21st post, (since the space for writing has gotten smaller and smaller for replying):
(I haven’t read any of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur’s books. That quote from Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur was sent years ago to me from another devotee.)
No superseding; simply taking what Srila Prabhupada said, as well as time, and my own individual set of circumstances into account with balance.
You’re so upset regarding my name, yet you still hide behind a made up name. Are you ashamed to use the one you were given?
Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda Swami
Hare Krsna
You wrote:
Not just me, other also have brought this to your attention. You have been blessed by Prabhupada giving you a name, Mahavegavati dasi. Yet you reject this honor in favor of another name given to you by some misguiding individual “another Gaudiya Vaisnava sannyasi“.
Just see the bogusness.
Not only have you disregarded Prabhupada’s instructions …
But in doing so you further implicate yourself by changing your name.
You seem to have a problem with my name, yet you wrote (17. April 2011 at 8:24 pm)
If I had written to you my name would have been on the alledged e-mail.
The fact is we have never corresponded and this is simply further proof of your delusional condition.
Sorry Bro, it’s you who are delusional. We were both on some Prabhupadanuga thread – I believe created by Pratyatosa prabhu – someone’s having put my name on without asking me. You posted as “July 9th” just as you do now. It was the thread where Tamohara sent some emails upholding Gour Govinda Maharaj as a bona fide guru.
So dude, it’s you who are delusional. You must be very bored that you’re so preoccupied with my life. Sounds like you need to chant Hare Krsna and take up the process Srila Prabhupada gave to us for developing Krsna consciousness. It might be better if you would meditate on Srila Prabhupada’s Lotus Feet, and that of Sri Sri Radha-Krsna, as opposed to meditating upon me and my life.
Regarding your name, it really doesn’t matter to me what your name is, other than trying to relate to you as a person as opposed the “it” you’re presenting yourself as. You’re obsessed with my name, and you’ve proved yourself to be a coward who hides behind some screen name, so why be bothered to continue talking to an it?
Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda Swami
Hare Krsna
Prabhu, just so readers will know; I can’t be bothered answering again this sinful devotee’s endless questions about things and advanced devotees such as HDG Srila Gour Govinda Maharajah Thakura, as he knows nothing about Maharajah, never answers questions as he is not interested in truth, but in telling his political lies and insisting he is right like Goebbels.
Neither will he or she or whatever it is, listen to anything but the envy and anger in hir heart, blinding hir to truth altogether. And to top the insanity off, (s)he twists and misquotes out of text from scriptures and talks, misquoting and leaving out the parts (s)he does not like which disprove the nonsenses. This is impossible to address; truly astonishing skullduggery and monumental insanity; a true work of art in duplicity. I have never in my life I swear on a stck of Gitas, come across such a devious lying rascal. (Except of course the I$con-co.GBCs etc)
I am not a Ritivk, whoever you are, are we supposed to guess? I am a harmonist ; simple Prabhupadanuga; we simply follow Srila Prabhupada, so why should we object to other pure devotees? Just see how this person tries to twist meanings like a psy- operative. I think you must be mad; you accept Srila Prabhupada?, but you hate 90% of his disciples? and don’t like it when we reject your black and white stereotyping?
What makes you think i or we accept this stupid brainwash labelling campaign? You say ritivk like a redneck says nigger. And what do YOU think is a RITVIK, oh great one? Surely you have it all figured out, as you are telling us all . Thank Krsna we have you to straighten out the millions of devotees who love Gour Govinda Swami because he kicked the GBC’s ass. I simply follow my spiritual master, not your labels nor hatreds of Mahabhagavata pure devotees. Sorry to waste further time with you, but this is for the sake of Truth and our non-“ritvik” non-GBC devotees.
If you doubt Gour Govinda Swami was a mahabhagavata, go to Gopaljiu, the ancient family Deity who talked with and made prochecies which came true through GGS, and see what He has to say to you! Oh? He isn;t talking with you these days?
Who is swamini here and who is B.Radha Govinda??
I know that we had 7 gurumas after Nityananda but they were not sannyasis they were like babajis…..out of varnashrama system because 6 Goswamis came in that mood as i heard.
And btw if someone is Premi Bhakta even if she is women it is good to take association of here – unless one is self-realized he shouldnt be guru as Srila Prabhupada said.
Gaura Govinda maharaja was a huge supporter of the GBC’s gurus (hence GGM supported the book changes by supporting JAS et al.) , he was also writing “position papers” to defend the GBC’s gurus, for example GGM wrote their 1988 “Guru Tattva” paper wherein GGM says, gurus are sometimes demons, but GGM has never explained why he has the atuhority to support demons posing as gurus?
And in 1993 when the GBC was trying to get rid of the sahajiya Tamal / Narayana Maharaja “gopi rasika” group, it was Gaura Govinda maharaja who stood up at the GBC meeting saying we need to KEEP Tamal and Narayana Maharaja, because we should not remove the vaishnavas, except these same people removed tens of thousands of vaishnavas?
GGM personally told me he has to cooperate, tolerate and work with the GBC and their gurus, so he was a supporter of them. Now this begs the question, why did GGM support the GBC knowing they were changing the books? Good question, ys pd
And you Puranajana, are a world-renowned liar of astounding duplicity.
Devotees; please come watch a set of four videos of Gour Govinda Swami telling it like it is about the GBC etc Then if you are interested, you can form an opinion of your own, not one based upon political and ego directed lies from fools;
“HDG Srila Gour Govinda Maharajah Thakura, ’95 Bhubaneswara. “Rule by majority vote!”
This specific series of four videos is on the 3rd page of front page Posts at the SPIrit-net site, http://puredevoteeseva.ning.com/
I ugre Prabhus to please watch them; most wonderful! HH.Radha Govinda Swami expressed much appreciation of them, as did others.
In this regards, there are aloso quote where Srila Prabhupada expresses that what Radha Govinda Swami does with her vows is most unusual and example setting, and that all should try to encourage her. She is usually too modest to tell the whole story.
Mahasana; Radha Govinda Swami and my foolish self have an on going conversation going back about five years, so no lecture needed, thanks, and yes, you are right, we are all less renounced and courgeous than she.
pamho agtACBSP
Main point of Krishna consciousness is how to first save ourselves and then save others.
A pure Vaishnava should be very careful to engage in his specific duty without criticizing others. This is the safest position. Otherwise, if one tends to criticize others, he may commit the great offense of criticizing a Vaishnava.
Yayati reached the heavenly planets by dint of his pious acts, but he fell down from there because of his self-advertisement and criticizing other great souls. After his fall, his daughter and grandson bestowed upon him their accumulated virtues, and by the help of his grandson and friend Sibi, he was again promoted to the heavenly kingdom, becoming one of the assembly members of Yamaraja, with whom he is staying as a devotee.
He performed more than one thousand different sacrifices, gave in charity very liberally and was a very influential king. His majestic power was felt all over the world. His youngest son agreed to award him his youthfulness when he was troubled with lustful desires, even for one thousand years.
Finally he became detached from worldly life and returned the youthfulness again to his son Puru. He wanted to hand over the kingdom to Puru, but his noblemen and the subjects did not agree. But when he explained to his subjects the greatness of Puru, they agreed to accept Puru as the King, and thus Emperor Yayati retired from family life and left home for the forest.
The real treasure my friends very easily to be obtained in this age for the sincere followers of Srila Prabhupada who got the urge to spread the Holy Name around the world without caring for outsiders as H.H. Gaura Govinda Maharaja did.
To just mind one’s own business on the way back to SRILA PRABHUPADA.
Gaura Govinda Maharaja was criticized about that but he just kept going and the result was that people stole things from him in SRI MAYAPUR DHAM while giving an ecstatic lecture on Lord Jagannatha, Baladeva, Subhadra.
One should be sure of success at the end and pursue this course with great perseverance, not becoming discouraged if there is any delay in the attainment of success. Success is sure for the rigid practitioner.
ys seva das
haribol
“Sakshi” of b.i.f. ie akash47@tpg.com.au said;
“Tomatohara… You are a nobody who wants to be a somebody but will never be an anybody. Soon you will die alone and bitter in a trailer on the edge of town.
There is no need for the CIA, NSA or any other outfit. Why persist in giving your beggarly cult (ritvik) so much importance. You were never more than pretenders now in self-destruct mode. All BIF is doing is giving you a helping hand. Please don’t die before seeing what is about to happen to your bogus cult with its criminals and whack jobs, like you.”
Both Mahsana and Radha Govinda Swami have cooperated and made interviews on this website. This website actively promotes hatred of ritviks and Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Why are our nice devotees cooperating with these demons? I am noting this to warn the devotees of these rascals using you to destroy you!
Here is an example of the blasphemous materials spewing from b.i.f. and its supporters;
“When BIF members pointed out that ACBS had in fact produced a great body of literary work, we were reminded that the books were cult pressed and sold for donations on the street vis-a-vis manuscripts selected by publisher’s choice, marketed via reputed retail outlets, and winning acclaim in an open market by reader preference. Literally, ACBS’ works, in substance origin tone and intention, is under intense dissection even as we write. What readers will encounter in this post is a kindergarten version of what is to come. It is the hope and belief of those involved, that final results of research will manifest as a record for posterity rendering cults inoperable in Hindustan, if not on the planet.
Not only was the ten-point-plan for Indira Gandhi made irrelevant, ISKCON (even after displaying its ‘dancing white elephants,’) was denied the awe and reverence sought by ACBS. The new cult, and in spite of foreign involvement, was left in the wake of popularity and fame awarded to the Ram Krishna Mission in India. As explanation to what he perceived as injustice, ACBS persistently labeled the Ram Krishna Mission’s extremely popular leader a low-life. Here is one sample:
Prabhupada: Actually this Vivekananda rascal, what he has done? What is his contribution?
Tamala Krsna: You always add on “rascal” whenever you mention his name.
Prabhupada: No, no, what he has done? He has ruined the Vedic culture.
Hari-sauri: Completely misrepresented it.
Envious? Offensive? Inimical? Sahajya? Kanishta? Mayavad? ApaRadha? No. We are fully conversant and aware of these cult goons. In fact those who come in contact with cults are soon confronted by dark suited strictures with bulges under their armpits. What they protect is of no consequence to newcomers mesmerized by what is on offer, or until screams are heard from beyond the patrolled parameters. Then and only then, some, who have miraculously escaped the unreserved surrender/submissive demands, start fidgeting with possibilities of entrapment via deception. For victims wrapped up in cult gossamer, the prospect that their talents, individuality, intelligence, money, youth, contribution to nation, society, and those they love, is being cunningly siphoned off by mantra touting tarantulas, is inconceivable, unacceptable, devastating, immeasurable and indescribable, ergo easier to defend than confront.
Okay let’s peek outside the cult cocoon.
Did you know- 1) The Bhagavad Gita-“As it Is” has 700 verses, but the Bhagavad Gita “As it Was” has only 84 verses?
The Gita is based upon the Karika of Kapila. (Kapila lived (700 BC) 300 years before Vyas (400BC).
“The total number of versus of the original Gita is 84. The original begins with verse number 28 of the Bhagavadgita and ends with…”
concluding…
” To our readers who have persevered through this article- kudos. For BIF team contacts in Bengal, Gaudiyaism came as a big surprise. They had no idea the group even existed until running into the Gaudiya Mutt’s last stand- ISKCON. What will follow soon (hopefully) is a declaration of fallacies and abuses contained in ISKCON literature after meticulous investigation and research being completed by Bharat Ratna Scholars. We will post their finding here, if and when permitted.
In service to TRUTH, BIF ”
So devotees supporting these demonic thugs; why ?
“I am not a Ritvik, whoever you are, are we supposed to guess? I am a harmonist ; simple Prabhupadanuga; we simply follow Srila Prabhupada, so why should we object to other pure devotees?”
Weird statement. “Not a ritvik” – but following Prabhupada who never ordered anyone to be the next acarya. This is not exactly the understanding of all those new Prabhupada disciples who recently got initiated.
They believe that Prabhupada is their guru and that Prabhupada is the current link of the Brahma-Madhava-Gaudiya Sampradaya. “I am not a Ritvik”, usually we hear such “wisdom” from JPS, Bhavananda, Kirtananda, etc etc., those who teach to take the risk of getting initiated by someone who is not properly authorized to officiate as bona fide diksa-guru.
Did Prabhupada not say that those who were qualified could accept disciples? So?
Aside from the qualification, Srila Prabhupada also taught that specific authorisation from the predecessor acarya was also essential before anyone could act as a diksa guru:
Thus, according to Srila Prabhupada, one can only become a diksa guru when both the qualification and authorisation are in place. Srila Prabhupada had not authorised any such gurus, nor had he stated that any of his disciples were qualified to initiate. Rather, just prior to July 9th, he agreed that they were still “conditioned souls”, and that vigilance was essential lest persons pose themselves as guru.
None of that pertains to GGS. He was not a conditioned soul. Srila Prabhupada did not treat Gour Govinda like a conditioned soul ever; just ask anybody who lived and saw for themself in those times.
Perhaps you make presumptions based upon your own past conditioned modes of thinking, Prabhu, cannot see clearly due to this obfuscation by dichotomous doctrinal pardigms imposed by envious conditioned minds. No offense intended, be at peace and chant Hare Krishna, but kindly get facts before making accusation towards devotees who are gone, to ordinary visionists of this world, and so cannot directly stand up for themselves in devotee public.
This is not news re one must be qualified and authorized etc., thanks for the repeats though. In GGS’s case, Srila Prabhupada ordered him to stay in Iskcon no matter what. So, they grabbed him and made him GBC against his wish, then after a while of his exposing their kanistha status, they changed their minds and arranged to eliminate him. Those who watched the 4 videos i noted above, can see this for themselves.
GGs was qualified to lead all of ISKCON forward upon Srila Prabhupada’s departure. Krishna sent us a pure devotee ready to go and qualified to lead us all. But instead, they finished him, and now others are kicking at him to acquire prestige and control of the cognitive thought processes of the devotees, with a policy of divide and conquer, same scheme as was used by military level war operatives such as the British in India, etdc, oldest game in the book. The elites control the information, they control what is acceptable doctirnally by popular vote, and this is what the GBC also does, no?
Pamho , AGT Srila Prabhupada ! All glories to Gour Govinda Maharajah and all glories to all the devotees of Mahaprabhu.
Obeisances to all pure devotees, even the ones I cannot myself see, nor understand.
” Yada yada hi dharmasya…” by Krishna’s Grace, we shall see many more pure devotees in years still with us or soon to come…
Will you also blaspheme and belittle them, and how is this to the advantage of Vaisnavism? Not all so-called ritivk devotees want this way of thinking like Guru Govinda Singh’s last guruship of the Sikhs, but they are being herded into this extremist position by older Godbrothers who appear not to have thought this through adequately. GGS is perhaps also Krishna’s way of seperating the cheats and the sincere.
As to ongoing initiation of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples, yes that is the instruction, yet also we have pure mahabhagavatas appearing soon and perhaps already appeared within our own sampradaya. This has proved disastrous as kanisthas cannot understand the level of advanced devotees, so when they are in charge like the I$conco GBCs, then all hell breaks lose .
All temple presidents or single brahmanas, even with no direct support structures, are authorized in these current emergency times to recommend sincere persons for initiation as disciples of Srila Prabhupada. It is no question of this devotee that devotee; ANY devotee who is an authorized representative of Srila Prabhupada by diksa and services and words deeds and mind, currently is authorized to make more devotees, as Srila Prabhupada directly instructed that “more may be added as needed.”
At SPI site, TPs are elected, there are three co-presidents currently, two male devotee vanaprastha and one grhasta Mataji, and all three are SP disciples and as authorized according to our spiritual master’s instructions to recommend, as temple officers and representative of the agreed collective will of the Vaisnava sanga; all of whom are direct disciples or strict followers of Srila Prabhupada.
So all please do it! Lets create an unstoppable voluminous army and overwhelm the bogus I$conco, who cares about them actually anyway, and thus establish Srila Prabhupada’s mission and service. Does that not sound like a good service?
Hare Krishna.
Its interesting how the quote from S.Bhagavatam 4.8.54. has been used out of context and only in a literal way as if we are going to discover some document or transcription that shows who is “authorised”. What do we expect to find?
Authorisation simple means empowered.
Which disciple is not empowered by his Spiritual master?
The “ritvik” interpretation of the word “authorised” is they expect some evidence somewhere, as if it were written down as a sacred text.And the “ritvik” explanation and definition of the word “authorised” is just their way of disproving that Iskcon Gurus are not “authorised”.
But that is just their way of looking at the issue.
If we change that perspective of understanding the word “authorised” to mean empowered,which is a dictionary definition, then we all know that at the time of Initiation ALL disciples are empowered-but that still does not explain the conclusion-the conclusion is if we are ALL empowered by the Spiritual Master at Initiation then which disciple is fully surrendered to the instruction and will of the Spiritual master,He is the next Spiritual Master in Disciplic Succession.The time gap may be astronomical or it may be no time but that is the next disciple whom is empowered and fully surrendered-He may be in iskcon- He may not be in Iskcon.
I dont agree with premachand prabhus conclusion, because i think the authorisation is eternally in place but who is prepared to follow 100%,thats the real point. The evidence from S.Bhagavatam 4.8.54 in no way excludes disciples but includes disciples eternally.
If you are authorized to be the successor of your father’s business what does this mean? It simply means your father personally assigned you the duty of continuing the established commercial requirement.
Besides, your father figures that whenever decision making is required, you are properly trained by him to make the right desicion in order to not run out of the rudder at any time.
Same here, not that authorisation is automatic or impersonal. No!
Srila Prabhupada, he gave all direction and never said that “This man should be the next acarya.” Period.
As far I understood prabhupadanugas.eu, they stand for that Srila Prabhupada is the current link and therefore new devotees are initiated as disciples of Srila Prabhupada.
If anybody doesnt agree or has a problem with it, make your own website. Dont post your stuff here. Look for other forums, don’t start lenghty back and forth debates about what was established already in the final order.
More bogus speculation from Dusyanta.
The guru has to authorise a disciple to be a successor initiating spiritual master, not that anyone can become a diksa guru just by dint of the fact that he is an initiated disciple. It is not automatic, as Premchand has said. Srila Prabhupada makes this amply clear:
“On the whole, you may know that he is not a liberated person, and therefore, he cannot initiate any person to Krishna Consciousness. It requires special spiritual benediction from higher authorities.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter to Janardana, 26 April, 1968)
“Vallabha Bhatta wanted to be initiated by Gadadhara Pandita, but Gadadhara Pandita refused, saying, “The work of acting as a spiritual master is not possible for me. “I am completely dependent. My Lord is Gauracandra, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. I cannot do anything independently, without His order.”
(CC, Antya 7:150-151)
Indian man: When did you become the spiritual leader of Krsna Consciousness?
Srila Prabhupada: What is that?
Brahmananda: He is asking when did you become the spiritual leader of Krsna Consciousness?
Srila Prabhupada: When my Guru Maharaja ordered me. This is the guru-parampara.
Indian man: Did it
Srila Prabhupada: Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he is ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.
(Srila Prabhupada Bg. Lecture, 28/10/75)
“Guru cannot be self made. No. There is no such single instance throughout the whole Vedic literature. And nowadays, so many rascals, they are becoming Guru without any authority. That is not Guru. You must be authorised. Evam parampara praptam imam ra… As soon as the parampara is…kalena yogo nasta parantapa, immediately finished. The spiritual potency finished. You can dress like a Guru, you can talk big, big words, but it will never be effective.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, February 27th 1977, Mayapur, India)
“I shall produce some guru. I shall say who is guru, ‘Now you become acarya .’ […] You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to be guru. A small temple and ‘guru’. What kind of guru?” (SP Morning walk, 22/4/77 )
“A Guru can be Guru when he is ordered by his Guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become Guru.”
(Srila Prabhupada Bg. Lecture, 28th October 1975)
“Self made Guru cannot be Guru. He must be authorised by the bona fide Guru. Then he’s Guru. This is the fact…Similarly, bona fide Guru means he must be authorised by the superior Guru.”
(Srila Prabhupada NOD Lecture, October 31. 1972)
“Therefore Guru must be authorised person, not that bhumi phala Guru. No. “I am Guru,” no. You cannot become Guru unless you are agent to draw out the mercy water from the ocean of mercy of Krsna. That is Guru. And therefore a Guru is not an ordinary person. He is the representative, bona fide representative of Krsna.”
(Srila Prabhupada Bhagavatam Lecture, November 30, 1976)
“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorised by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa vidhana.”
(SB 4.8.54, purport)
“All my disciples will take the legacy. If you want, you can also take it. Sacrifice everything. I, one, may soon pass away. But they are hundreds, and this movement will increase. It is not that I give an order, ‘Here is the next leader.’ Anyone who follows the previous leadership is the leader…. All of my disciples are leaders, as much as they follow purely. If you want to follow, you can also lead. But you don’t want to follow. Leader means one who is a first class disciple. Evam param parapraptam. One who is following is perfect.”
(Srila Prabhupada, Back to Godhead magazine, Vol. 13, No. 1-2)
courtesy Rasa Manjari dd acbssp
There is the authorization to preach and lead, and the instruction is given elswhere to initiate on Srila Prabhupada’s behalf. Your quoting, Jay, is misleading, in that all authorization to be siksa guru is already given to Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. So far as other pure devotees, simply let them go outside. All should preach that SP is the spiritual master for all of us.
Since Tamohara rejects that Srila Prabhupada is the current diksha-guru of the Brahma-Madhava-Gaudiya-sampradaya and promotes ISKCON’s present guru system of “everybody is automatically guru”, he might do so at dandavats.org or his own website and rejoin ISKCON.
His understanding is that he himself is guru and this is what we have since 1977 in ISKCON, everybody is guru, all are gurus, the whole world is guru. Only problem is, why there are tons of fallen gurus?
Question is, why Tamohara doesnt tell his disciples to open temples and preach? Why is he all day spending Krishna’s time in cyberspace?
Tamoharadasa prabhu
With respect, what are you talking about? The above quotes from Srila Prabhupada refer to authorization to be DIKSA (initiating) guru. That is the subject of discussion. Look:
“On the whole, you may know that he is not a liberated person, and therefore, he cannot INITIATE any person to Krishna Consciousness. It requires special spiritual benediction from higher authorities.”
“Vallabha Bhatta wanted to be INITIATED by Gadadhara Pandita, but Gadadhara Pandita refused, saying, “The work of acting as a spiritual master is not possible for me. “I am completely dependent. My Lord is Gauracandra, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. I cannot do anything independently, without His order.”
“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorised by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called DIKSA vidhana.”
(SB 4.8.54, purport)
Hare Krishna!
Please accept my fallen obeisances.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Seeing all this disagreement lately makes me wonder who is really, cent per cent following His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Or at least trying to do so without any personal motivation.
I’m new to Krishna consciousness and wanted to let you know Prabhus that all of this is just creating more and more confusion for me. Only by the mercy of Lord Krishna and His pure devotee Srila Prabhupada do we have the great fortune to make our lives perfect. My worthless opinion is that all of you Vaishnavas should better utilize the precious time and cooperate leaving aside any and all personal intention.
Why would anybody want to become a guru or master in the first place? We already have the perfect guru Srila Swami Prabhupada, all we need is to learn how to perfectly follow.
“James 3.1
My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
James 3.2
For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.”
Bible (KJV)
Srila Prabhupada
Vrindavana Bhajana, 1958
Verse 20
The Vaiṣṇavas can awaken the sleeping world
By their mercy the sinful can all become devotees.
Therefore they do not perform nirjana bhajana,
That is the world cheating process of the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī
All the big big famous vaishnavas were in assembly
And Padri Saheb came in to meet them
He asked some questions about Kṛṣṇa’s līlā in Vṛndāvana
But that association of venerable Vaiṣṇavas was not able to enlighten him as to the real truth.
Please have mercy on my fallen soul and forgive my ignorance and offenses.
All glories to Śrī Guru and Gaurāṅga!
Jay; Once properly initiated, you are fully authorized to be siksa guru, but follow the instructions and then you can do it, otherwise, it is cheap talk. You must be temple president or other recognized Vaisnava senior person, then you can recommend to Srila Prabhupada for initiations of his new disciples, just like we have done since the seventies, with no change whatsoever. There IS no other diksa guru for us Srila Prabhupada disciples. Advanced Vaisnavas who are diksa guru category may leave Srila Prabhupada’s ashramas if they wish to be such, not steal everything as the GBC goondas have done. You mind set has been polarized into a box of either the hard ritivk or the GBCs by the proponets of each brainwash ; neither is correct. Both attempt to split the devotees into armed camps. We are the ninety percent, we accept neither the abusive hard ritivks nor GBC goondas. Any persons attempting to divide the devotees into seperate camps,divide and conquer, is an enemy. We are all Krsna dasa.
How is our program at SPI any different than, for example, Bangalores, except that we do not blaspheme nor abuse other pure devotees such as Srila Gour Govinda, and we do not come in succession form Jayapatakaura. ? We have three temple co-presidents currently, Basu Gopal Prabhu, Mother Parvati DD, and my lowly self, all three of whom recommend for initiations. Rather than talk cheap, come visit us sometimes and find out the truth for yourself.
Hare Krsna.
The problem with being influenced by “ritvik” ideology is you become blinded to all the other quotes that are provided by devotees.
Like the one Tamoharadas supplied which is an excellent quote by Srila Prabhupada illustrating that all disciples are automatically authorised.
“ALL MY DISCIPLES WILL TAKE THE LEGACY.If you want you can also take it…”
Legacy means something handed down by a predecessor……
So what on earth is Srila Prabhupada handing down to ALL His disciples ?
Then He says “It is not that i give an order “here is the next leader,” anyone who follows the previous leader is the leader….ALL of My disciples are the next leader as much as they follow purely.If you want to follow you can also lead.But you dont want to follow.Leader means one who is first class disciple.Evam param parapraptam.One who is following is perfect.”
“It is the duty of the siksha guru and diksa guru to instruct the disciple in the right way, and it DEPENDS on the Disciple to EXECUTE the process…..” S.Bhagavatam 4.12 32.
The authorisation and empowerment are always there for ALL disciples but the conclusive analysis is that “it depends on the Disciple to execute the process…”
Initiation is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and VANQUISH all reactions caused by sinful activity….. from Cc 15.108. This is the process that the disciple must execute and is dependent on.
Falldowns are only evidence that the disciple did NOT follow the process not evidence that the disciple is not authorised or empowered.
It depends on the disciple to follow, not the Siksha Guru or Diksa Guru.
That Iskcon Gurus fell down is not evidence that they were not authorised, thats using evidence with “ritvik” tinted glasses.S.Bhagavatam 4.8.54 purport does not mean that because falldown is there, they were not authorised,thats just twisting evidence to suit your own conclusion and thats not how to interprete scriptural evidence.To get a clear understanding of Scripture you have to be a transparent via medium otherwise the tendency is to put your own spin on it which is exactly how the “ritviks “operate.
Be transparent and then read it all again and it takes on a different quality then put your “ritvik” glasses on and it takes on the “ritvik” spin.
The legacy from Srila Prabhupada is for ALL His disciples.
But the problem has not been one of authorisation but one of following purely and executing the process given by the Siksha Guru or/and Diksa Guru.Lets not continue to be totally naieve about what the actual problem is and where it lays.
Dusyanta prabhu wrote:
“Falldowns are only evidence that the disciple did NOT follow the process not evidence that the disciple is not authorised or empowered.”
Srila Prabhupada writes:
“The spiritual master must never be carried away by an accumulation of wealth or a large number of followers. A bona fide spiritual master will never become like that. But sometimes, if a spiritual master is not properly authorized and only on his own initiative becomes a spiritual master, he may be carried away by an accumulation of wealth and large numbers of disciples.” (Nectar of Devotion, p116)
Thanks, but I’ll stick with Srila Prabhupada, and not your speculations.