Srila Prabhupada: Sampradaya Acharya

Srila Prabhupada is the center-piece, the Acharya, the central person in our association. His instructions are the pivot, the essence of our association.

(by Hansadutta das)

Putting things into proper perspective

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originally published in the magazine Every Town & Village, 1992, Singapore

HANSADUTTA: It’s nice to see you have a Deity of Srila Prabhupada.

We should focus our attention on the teachings, which are important. And of course, Srila Prabhupada brought the whole current of Krishna consciousness to the world—not just the western world, but the eastern world also. There is no history of any acharya who has done so much in so short a time as Srila Prabhupada has done.

Srila Prabhupada was an extraordinary, transcendental personality, who has taken the whole Gaudiya Vaishnava stream of instructions, which have come down originally from Lord Brahma, the first and foremost living being in the universe, the engineer of the universe. He (Lord Brahma) directly received instructions from Lord Krishna. Lord Brahma gave these instructions to Narada, and Narada gave them to Vyasadeva, and Vyasadeva wrote all these instructions down and compiled them in a systematic way: the Vedic literatures. And thus they have come through Madhvacharya, Lord Chaitanya, Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati and His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the modern day Vyasadeva and the Sampradaya Acharya.

Everyone wants to worship someone. It’s natural, because we are all parts and parcels of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, and Krishna, being the most extraordinary. He is the Supreme Person, but we are the minute persons. Our natural tendency is to worship, but when our worship becomes diverted from Krishna, it manifests itself materially. But we find that we are always worshipping someone. People worship movie stars. They worship pop stars. They worship athletic stars, political stars. It’s natural and unavoidable to worship someone. We must always worship someone.

But if we worship someone who is not great and just worship someone for the sake of having an object of worship, to fulfill our inclination to worship, that won’t satisfy us, and it won’t help the person who is being worshipped—in this case, me. There’s no advantage. You won’t gain anything by worshipping me. You will gain something by worshipping Srila Prabhupada as the Sampradaya Acharya, and others are respected as his representatives.

Perhaps there lies a clue to so many problems in this movement. We want to worship someone, and we want somone to bless us in return. That’s what we want. But we have to worship the proper, qualified person. Srila Prabhupada is the qualified person. Although he is not physically present, he is present transcendentally, in the shape of his instructions. He is the Sampradaya Acharya. He is the leader.

Just making a big show of worship, without actually understanding and following the instructions becomes just like Christianity, a big show—”Yes, I believe in Jesus,” but they do nothing for Jesus. They follow none of Jesus’s instructions. They just say, “We love Jesus. We have accepted Jesus.” But they have not accepted his order. If someone follows the orders of Jesus Christ under the direction of a priest, then one is the disciple of Christ.

Similarly, this Krishna conscious movement, the Hare Krishna movement, is coming through Srila Prabhupada, and Srila Prabhupada’s instructions are there in his books. It’s important to live according to his order. If we ignore the order, where is the worship? Worship the Acharya by following his order under the guidance of his rittvik representative.

We should hear from that person who is actually in touch, actually connected through the disciphc succession with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That person is the Sampradaya Acharya. He is present by vani, instructions.

So I am very seriously and humbly requesting you to try to understand the instructions of Srila Prabhupada and offer your worship to Srila Prabhupada and receive blessings from Srila Prabhupada. As his rittvik representative, I can give some guidance, but Srila Prabhuapda is the actual spiritual master.

Srila Prabhupada wanted all his disciples to preach Krishna consciousness all over the world. And of course I’m one of his disciples. For that purpose, I’m in Singapore, going to India to encourage people to practice Krishna consciousness.

What is Krishna consciousness? How do we practice Krishna consciousness? We practice Krishna consciousness by hearing—shravanam kirtanam vishnoh smaranam: hearing about Krishna and chanting about Krishna. This is the simplest, most effective way to awaken and maintain our Krishna consciousness: chanting the holy name of Krishna. Anyone can chant the name of Krishna. It doesn’t require a temple. It doesn’t require any money. Anyone, anywhere, anytime can chant the holy name of Krishna. And as soon as we chant, then we are in touch with Krishna. That is the aim. The aim is to be in touch with Krishna. Bhakti-yoga. Yoga means to be in touch, to be connected, to link up. Just as when we make a long-distance call, we have to link up. Linking up is done through the telephone company. They connect us overseas. The overseas operator connects us.

Srila Prabhupada can connect us to Krishna. His instructions are to chant Hare Krishna and be happy. If we follow those instructions, then we will be connected, and by that connection everything else will be understood. Everything will be revealed to us what to do and what not to do. just like when the telephone connection is made and you hear your friend on the other side, you communicate, and according to his instructions, you’ll know what to do. Material existence means not connected; disconnected. It means darkness, no direction. And spiritual life begins by the connection with Krishna. That connection takes place by following the instructions of the spiritual master.

Those instructions are first and foremost to chant Hare Krishna. The more you chant Hare Krishna, and the more you make an arrangement for other people to chant, the more the spiritual master is pleased. Srila Prabhupada said it’s not necessary even to understand the language of the mantra. A child can do it. Even a dog can take part in the chanting, Prabhupada says. Even a dog can take part in the chanting, because the chanting of the holy name of Krishna is identical with Krishna. The whole process is to realise this truth, as we realise that we can be always in association with, always connected to Krishna, simply by chanting His name.

At that time there will be nothing in this world that will have any attraction for us. We will simply wish to be perpetually, constantly in touch with Krishna, because Krishna is the source of all bliss, happiness. And after all, we want to be happy. Why is a man working? He thinks by earning money he will be happy. Of course we see people are earning money, but they are not happy because real happiness means to be connected with, reunited with Krishna. Krishna says, “I am the Father of all living beings of all shapes and sizes, and material nature is the mother.” Krishna is our real Father. If a child is separated from his father, he becomes very anxious, but as soon as he again catches sight of his father, then everything is okay. We are anxious, being disconnected from Krishna. We are running here and there, looking for shelter, looking for happiness. It is only when we are again connected to Krishna, then we feel that everything is all right, and whatever our material circumstances may be, we don’t mind. This is the aim: simply to be happy, being again in touch with our eternal Father, Krishna.

The spiritual master helps us in that way. That person is Srila Prabhupada. There’s no doubt about it, and if you neglect Srila Prabhupada and become unnecessarily fixed on this material body which you see in front of you, then you will make me unhappy, and you will not get any real happiness. My function is to tell you this, that the person to be worshipped, the person to be followed and regarded with all love and affection is Srila Prabhupada. Otherwise, why do we have this murti here? Are we just idol worshippers? No. We want to point out to people in general: here is the personality who brought Krishna consciousness to the whole world. He is the empowered, transparent representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Of course, I had the good fortune to meet Srila Prabhupada as far back as 1967, and I am his initiated disciple, and he did order me to preach Krishna consciousness all over the world. And I am trying to do that. If you give credit to me, instead of to Prabhupada, then you are not helping me to preach Krishna consciousness to the world—which is what Srila Prabhupada wanted me to do—act as his rittvik representative.

So please take me seriously when I say that I do not want to be the center of your worship. I want the center of your worship to be Srila Prabhupada. Then I will feel comfortable. I will be happy, and Srila Prabhupada will be happy with me. I want Srila Prabhupada to be happy. I do not want him to be displeased. And Srila Prabhupada also, of course, if he were here in person, would feel, “All the credit goes to my spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada.” This is the way transcendental life is imparted. It comes through the disciphc succession. Please try to understand this. I am simply the rittvik representative of the Acharya, Srila Prabhupada.

And you also represent Srila Prabhupada and spread Krishna consciousness wherever you go, just by inducing people to chant the holy name and follow the instructions of Lord Krishna. Lord Chaitanya said, “In this way you also become guru, spiritual master, and save the people of this land by this process.”

I know what some of you are thinking—Bhima, Baba and Vrindaranya … they are thinking that Hansadutta is the guru,” and I’m thinking, “No, I’m not the guru; Srila Prabhupada is the guru.” The word guru has a wide spectrum of meaning. Just like the word businessman. Someone says, “I’m a businessman.” Businessman could mean that he’s the CEO of IBM, or it could mean he has a small grocery store on the comer, selling fruits and vegetables. Guru has a very wide spectrum of meaning, and we should understand that and not artificially apply it without proper perspective. Srila Prabhupada is prabhupada, or the master at whose feet all the prabhus, all the masters take shelter. He is the super guru, the supreme guru, acharya, the great guru. All the gurus take shelter of him. That means he’s the gurus’ guru.

And we are acting as his rittvik representative, as he ordered us to do in his letter of July 9, 1977. In any field there are great personalities, great innovators. In science there was Einstein, because he introduced and expanded in such a way that had never before been done. In the university, someone is also a professor of science, and he is bringing the teachings of the previous scientists Einstein and Galileo and so forth. The professor is also a scientist, but he cannot be compared to Einstein. Einstein was unique, because his contribution was so vast and so broad. just because a professor is teaching us doesn’t mean that he should be regarded the same or on an equal footing with Einstein. That would be a mistake. At least, the professor should not think of himself in this way. This is my point. I am only a monitor in the class.

Naturally devotees offer all respects, not only to other devotees, but even to non-devotees and even to an ant. Lord Chaitanya said that one should offer respects to everyone, not expecting anything for himself. I understand that, but we should also understand that the most respectable person in our association is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and we can show him that respect by understanding his teachings and following the teachings he brought to us. That will be a happy association, and people will be able to accept Krishna consciousness very easily with Srila Prabhupada as the worshipable Acharya in the center.

If you continue to put emphasis on myself, then people will say, ‘Who is this person? Why should we pay attention to him? Some American person who is always chanting. Why should we give him so much regard?” They will be hesitant. So you will be doing a disservice to Srila Prabhupada, and I mean it very sincerely. I mean it deeply, truly. I don’t say it as a cliche or as a posture to appear humble. I mean it genuinely, and I am determined to teach people to worship Srila Prabhupada. He will be pleased, and people will be benefitted. And the Krishna conscious movement will spread. Wherever this is not done, Krishna consciousness will not spread, and Srila Prabhupada will not be pleased, and no one willbe benefitted. Is it clear? In this way, he will be present. Transcendentally, he is present. But we must also be present spiritually, and that presence is by acknowledging him, acknowledging Srila Prabhupada’s presence and offering all our attentions, all our sentiments, all our love, all our energies, all our good will—everything—there. Any questions?

DEVAKARAN: Yes, Prabhu. A question. You are a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, but we are here without a guru.

HANSADUTTA: No.

DEVAKARAN: Someone needs to guide us.

HANSADUTTA: That’s okay. I’m telling you what the guidance is, so therefore I’m guiding you. In that sense I may be a guru, rittvik representative of the Acharya, as Srila Prabhupada ordered me in a letter of July 9, 1977. I’m just giving you the right instructions, as I understand them, and as I know Srila Prabhupada would want me to, so that you will be blessed and benefitted. I have no power to bless you. If I have any blessing, it is only this, that Srila Prabhupada is the center-piece, the Acharya, the central person in our association. His instructions are the pivot, the essence of our association. I’m just pointing that out. In that sense, you may think, “Oh, he’s a very nice man, and he’s giving us good advice.” But then you have to actually follow the instructions. I didn’t write this book [Bhagavad-gita As It Is]. I am not the author or the translator of this book. Srila Prabhupada is. Therefore Srila Prabhupada should be regarded in the proper perspective. If I happen to sell you a book, that doesn’t make me the author; it makes me a book salesman. The book contains the instructions of Srila Prabhupada, so in that sense it is a transcendental engagement, and it is beneficial for you and for me and for many. But the essential factor is that Srila Prabhupada’s instructions are to be understood, followed and taught. And therefore Srila Prabhupada is to be honored without any reservation as the Sampradaya Acharya, without feeling that it should be otherwise. It should be that way. It is that way. That is the correct perspective. And that will bring you immense transcendental blessing. Anything else is bogus.

KENNY: Maharaja, for preaching physically—

HANSADUTTA: We don’t preach physically. We preach spiritually. My body cannot preach. My body is a lump of matter. If the soul is not there in my body, then how will my body help you?

I am getting my order from my spiritual master. l want you to understand this. And he has especially translated these literatures to make understanding Krishna consciousness easy for you. Please read and understand these books. In a small sense I may be a guru by saying this: “Oh, please read the books and follow Srila Prabhupada. He’s a great personality.” But if you give inordinate attention to me, if you exaggerate and flatter me, or in other words, if you give me more regard than I’m actually due, then it becomes offensive to Srila Prabhupada. Because actually Srila Prabhupada is not just a guru in the ordinary sense. He is extraordinary, just as Vyasadeva was extraordinary, Madhvacharya was extraordinary, Ramanuja was extraordinary. There were many gurus in between, but they were not extraordinary. They were ordinary gurus. They were gurus, but my point is, be realistic. If you become unrealistic, just sentimental, you will become fanatics, and that won’t help you. It won’t help me, it won’t help Srila Prabhupada, and it won’t help people in general. They will think, “Who is this Hansadutta? Why are they paying so much attention to him? What has he done?” And actually what has he done? He hasn’t done anything. In fact, he has done all kinds of mischief. Everyone knows that. I’ve done wrong and offensive things because of this very point, because of becoming diverted by inordinate amount of attention. It tends to intoxicate one’s false ego, and in this way, a person becomes crazy. The whole world is full of such persons. Unqualified persons accepting inordinate amount of worship or regard is no good. In one sense, yes, okay, he’s guru, but if I say I want you to do this and you don’t do it, then you don’t have a guru, because you’re not following what he wants you to do.

We should see things in the proper perspective. Then everything will be happy. And if you go out fighting in my name, you’re just causing me harm, and you’re causing yourself harm by making Vaishnava aparadha. There should be no fighting. The fighting will stop immediately when you all agree, when all the devotees agree that Srila Prabhupada is the central figure, the supreme spirihial master in our association. If someone confronts you, you can say, “We’re following Srila Prabhupada. That’s what Hansadutta told us to do. That’s what we do.” There’s nothing to fight about then. In Srila Prabhupada’s presence there is no fighting, because he is so great that all contending parties are harmonised. When he was present, that’s how things were. And if we agree, if we understand that spiritually he is present by his instructions and by his orders, then at least for yourselves, then…. You think I appreciate your fighting? I don’t appreciate that. There’s no spiritual happiness, no spiritual merit. That is just Vaishnava aparadha. And if we want to stop Vaishnava aparadha in our Hare Krishna movement, in our ISKCON movement, brought in by the influence of Kali, causing dissension in the rank and file of devotees so that they become ineffective for preaching—if we want to stop that, we have to see that Srila Prabhupada is the central figure. Srila Prabhupada should be worshipped. He should be honored. We should tell the whole world to worship Srila Prabhupada and follow his instructions. His books should be distributed. Then the fighting will stop and unity will come.

Srila Prabhupada is the Sampradaya Acharya—all others are his servants. But if we continue at every chance to hold up the banner of their little guru, little upstart guru, then we’re going to have what they had in India at the turn of the last century, when the British came in. All the little princes had their own little kingdoms, and the British came along and said, “Yes, you’re a good little prince.” They flattered him a bit and gave him a bit of something, gave him a title and took over his principality. In this way they devoured India. Similarly, the influence of Kali has come into this movement by inordinate flattery—”Oh yes, you’re a big guru like Srila Prabhupada. You should have a nice seat. You’re showing us Srila Prabhupada, so you’re great. You’re greater than Srila Prabhupada.” Then everyone became polluted. And the prime example is myself. If anything should be learned, that should be learned.

And I’m not saying it as a gesture. I’m saying it honestly and sincerely, and I’m appealing to you to understand this. And maybe, just maybe everything could be reversed and set back on proper course with Srila Prabhupada in the lead, and his disciples…. Yes, Srila Prabhupada used to say, “I am Marx, and you are Lenin.” We are doing the work—that’s all right—but we are not Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada is the person, like Marx, who gave the ideas, and he will forever be honored as the supermost excellent personality in the association of the devotees. And the others, they are carrying the banners and rallying—”Come on! Chant Hare Krishna and take prasadam! Sell books!” That’s nice, but they are not Srila Prabhupada. I am not Srila Prabhupada. And anyone who allows himself to be honored in that way without pointing out the proper perspective in this association, he will have to meet with disaster, as I have met with disaster. And he’ll be actually dishonoring Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada said, “In my books I will live forever.” That means he will live forever. That means he’s here. And I want to associate with you on that basis. I don’t want to be isolated by being put up in an extraordinary way. That means I can’t associate with you. I want to associate with you under the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada. That’s what I want. So if you really mean that, that I’m the guru, then understand this from me. If you don’t understand this and don’t follow this, then you don’t have a guru, and I don’t want to associate with you. I’m telling you plain and simple.

VRINDARANYA DAS: This is the same, something like the Jesus philosophy?

HANSADUTTA: I don’t know what the Jesus philosophy is. I’m telling you only what our philosophy is. That’s not my expertise. I’m not a Christian. So I can’t comment on that. I’m telling you what our philosophy is, what our association is, what our proper understanding is, and what our future is. We’re not concerned with Jesus or others. We don’t know what they’re doing. It’s not our business to tamper with their association.

GUEST: Maharaja, would you consider to initiate disciples sometime in the future?

HANSADUTTA: First of all, we have to see whether they have any understanding. What is the use of initiating someone who has no understanding, who doesn’t follow?

My point is this, that we should worship Srila Prabhupada. If we do that, then everything will come into proper perspective. And I’m pointing that out. I don’t encourage people to worship me. I encourage people to worship Srila Prabhupada. And anyone who has a problem with that, they should deal with Srila Prabhupada, not with me. I don’t encourage people to worship me or follow me. I encourage people to follow Srila Prabhupada. See, Srila Prabhupada is smiling. He likes it. He is. He’s smiling, he’s happy. This is correct.

If you tell this to people, to anybody—devotees and non-devotees—then it’s correct. Then things will work. Otherwise things won’t work. This has been the problem throughout the movement: undue attention, undue worship being offered to Srila Prabhupada’s disciples and Srila Prabhupada being neglected.

The disciples are also respectable. But there’s a difference between me and Srila Prabhupada. Do you think there’s a difference or not? Is there a difference between me and Srila Prabhupada, or not? Tell me. You don’t see the difference?

KENNY: He’s your spiritual master.

HANSADUTTA: That’s right. He’s not only my master; he’s everyone’s master. Therefore we call him Prabhupada, the master at whose feet all masters take shelter.

Maybe I’m the first person to say this. I don’t know. Srila Prabhupada is the Sampradaya Acharya. We are his representative.

VRINDARANYA DAS: Actually, myself, when I come down and pay obeisances to Srila Prabhupada, I feel there’s a difference, and when I say to you, I think, “What about Srila Prabhupada?”

HANSADUTTA: Okay, good. I’m glad you’re finally getting some common sense. Even when Srila Prabhupada was here, I was in Europe, and there were many devotees there who had regard for me, but they always understood that Srila Prabhupada was the central person. Even in his presence, Srila Prabhupada wanted to see that his senior disciples were regarded properly and followed, but it was always understood that Srila Prabhupada was the central person. That is the point I wish to make. If you take this point seriously without any undue, blind sentiment, then your be happy. Your spiritual life will be more happy and successful. “Love me, love my dog.” If you love Srila Prabhupada, then naturally you’ll love his devotees. But if you love his devotee and forget about Srila Prabhupada, then your love is useless. We must worship the Sampradaya Acharya. By that his servants are also worshipped.

VRINDARANYA DAS: Let’s say I have some problem. Who will give me advice?

HANSADUTTA: You can ask me, and I can give you advice, but it doesn’t make me Srila Prabhupada. If he [indicating Bhakta Kenny] has a problem and he asks your advice, and you give him advice, should he give you more respect than he would give to me? I originally gave you the advice, and you gave it to him. Then if he starts working with you, do you think that’s right? No. But still, because he’s taking advice from you, he’s giving you respect. So we have to see things in proper perspective. The idea, the understanding is the perspective.

VRINDARANYA DAS: Then we can be together.

HANSADUTTA: Everyone can be together—no problem. Everyone. You can have your cake and eat it too. Everyone can be together and worship Srila Prabhupada, and at the same time disciples who are leading disciples also should be respected, but not like Srila Prabhupada. Not more than Srila Prabhupada. Not at Srila Prabhupada’s expense. That’s not right. It’s common sense, right? Is it common sense or not? Like in Singapore, I know that Lee Kwan Yew will always be the number one man. He’s number one, because he made Singapore. Handmade by him. There may be other people who become prime minister. Or like in our country, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, maybe JFK. Other presidents did nicely, but these are number one. In other words, we have to keep proper perspective.

VRINDARANYA DAS: Say if everyone starts glorifying Srila Prabhupada, then everything will be in harmony again.

HANSADUTTA: Yes. Then everything will be in proper perspective, harmony. Do you get it?

DEVAKARAN: Why is it the gurus have all split all different directions?

HANSADUTTA: Because of this very reason. They’re giving more attention to Srila Prabhupada’s followers who are trying to spread Krishna consciousness. But they are not the Founder-Acharyas of this movement. The Founder, the initiator, the supreme guru is Srila Prabhupada. When that perspective is taken, then everything will be all right, worshipping Srila Prabhupada as the Sampradaya Acharya.

DEVAKARAN: So the senior disciples who are organising this movement, they themselves should say, “You only must worship Prabhupada, not me?”

HANSADUTTA: Yes. They should teach everyone to worship the Acharya, Srila Prabhupada.

DEVAKARAN: “I’ve only the knowledge taken from Prabhupada, and I’m guiding you.”

HANSADUTTA: Exactly. I’m simply giving advice.

DEVAKARAN: That is acceptable. We understand that. But the other people … the other senior devotees should—

HANSADUTTA: They should also do.

DEVAKARAN: Why is it that they are not doing?

HANSADUTTA: Because the tendency is … it’s not that l’m criticising them, but it happened to me … the tendency is that if you give someone respect, he loses his head. He becomes puffed up. It’s very intoxicating.

DEVAKARAN: That is what is happening to Jayapataka Swami in Malaysia. A lot of people talk about him.

HANSADUTTA: Everywhere. The tendency is if you give someone attention, he’ll become puffed up. just like you see in children. If you give them attention, immediately they become crazy. Not only children, but grown-ups. If everyone in this room came to you and touched your feet and put flowers on you, you’d become puffed up. Although you’re an ordinary person, after a while you’d think, “Maybe I am special.” This is the nature of maya. Maya is intoxicating—”You’re such a nice person. You’re so wise. You have done everything.” And you completely neglect that you have got everything from the other source. just like you have children. How many children you have?

DEVAKARAN: Two boys.

HANSADUTTA: Your children think you’re the greatest man in the world, but if you think that you are, then you are a fool. It’s okay for them to think like that. It’s natural. But if you think like that and come in front of your father, he’ll give you a slap—”You nonsense!” He sees you as his son, like a little boy—”What do you know?” Before your father you are always just his son, a small boy. This is the idea. Is it clear?

In this way, although you may have some regard for me—which is proper—Srila Prabhupada should be in the center. Then we can have a nice relationship. Otherwise it becomes strange. We don’t want any strange relationship. We want a happy relationship. And that is possible when we see everything in its proper perspective.

KUNOT KUDIAN: Maharaja, another question. Maharaja has told us that every one of us must worship Srila Prabhupada. But within Srila Prabhupada’s International Society of Krishna Consciousness there are puffed-up people who do not want to admit… it seems about 90% his followers are outside, and only 10% are running the society. Why they do not accept these people without any condition? They can always give a statement that all the followers of Krishna consciousness any time can be accepted back without any condition.

HANSADUTTA: Because when you become puffed up, you do crazy things. That’s all.

KUNOT KUDIAN: How is it possible, then, to follow ISKCON?

HANSADUTTA: I didn’t say follow ISKCON. I said follow Srila Prabhupada. I say follow Srila Prabhupada, and anyone who tells you, “No, don’t follow him” is nonsense. Follow Srila Prabhupada, follow his instructions, read his books, and tell people to read his books. It’s simple. If I follow Srila Prabhupada and if you follow Srila Prabhupada, then automatically you follow me, because he’s my guru. I’m asking everyone to chant Hare Krishna—which is what he asked me to do. If you follow him, if you read his books and tell others, then you’re automatically following me, right?

You can tell people, “Here is Srila Prabhupada. Here are his instructions.” If you actually follow him, nothing changes. I can be followed, but not by neglecting Srila Prabhupada. By focusing on Srila Prabhupada, appreciating his instructions and telling others, then you’re actually helping me to follow, because I’m also following Srila Prabhupada. And you’re following me. I’m saying, “Follow Srila Prabhupada.” What’s the problem?

DEVAKARAN: Is there any chance that ISKCON will come back together again?

HANSADUTTA:Yes, there’s a chance. That’s another point I want to make. What is ISKCON? People say, “ISKCON, ISKCON.” ISKCON means the flow of transcendental instructions coming down through Srila Prabhupada, and before him Bhaktisiddhanta and before him Bhaktivinoda. Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON is just like the Ganges, which comes from the spiritual world, falling upon the head of Lord Shiva, to the Himalayan mountain and down to the plains of India. Anyone can go into the Ganges and get purified. No one can say, “Hey, you cannot come into the Ganges. You’re not pure.” And if you go into the Ganges, that doesn’t mean that you become Ganges. You don’t become the Ganges.

DEVAKARAN: You’re purified by yourself, that’s all.

HANSADUTTA: Yes, you’re purified by allowing the water to touch you. Similarly, you do not become ISKCON. I am not ISKCON. ISKCON is not a conglomeration. It means the flow of spiritual instruction coming through Srila Prabhupada. So if you allow the instructions to come through you, then that’s ISKCON. Then you’re purified, and people who are in there are purified. But this idea that ‘We are ISKCON, and you are not ISKCON” is nonsense.

DEVAKARAN: That’s right. You are all devotees of the Hare Krishna movement, united parts and parcels of different angles.

HANSADUTTA: This is clear, right? You do not become ISKCON. ISKCON means International Society for Krishna Consciousness. That means the consciousness of Krishna, which is there in His instructions. His instructions awaken. That is ISKCON. Anyone who adheres to those instructions and tells them to others, ISKCON is flowing there, like the Ganges, and no one can restrict us. Such restriction [against following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and preaching them to others] is nonsense, foolishness. Just like if you tell your son, “I don’t want you to marry and have children.” He has got the right from God. It is his God-given right to marry and have children. And he will teach his children, according to what he has learned from you. But he’s always your son. Even when he’s sixty years old, you can tell him, “You’re a nonsense,” just as your father told you when you were small.

DEVAKARAN: Nowadays children are different.

HANSADUTTA: They’re not different. Children will be whatever you teach them. They are mirrors. If you are standing in front of the mirror, whatever you are you will see. Children are a mirror to the parents. Whatever you are they reflect. It’s not that they are different.

You want a revolution? A spiritual revolution? This is it. No one can argue with this. Srila Prabhupada should be worshipped. He should be regarded. By worshipping him, everyone is included. Why? Because he is Krishna’s representative.

To take the example further, we have Vyasadeva. Vyasadeva is a guru. Do present-day gurus teach that they are more than Vyasadeva? No. It’s very nice that they are bringing the teachings, and they are respected for that, but they cannot be considered on the same level. Similarly, in the university you have to accept a professor in order to study science. And the professor will teach you about Einstein and other great stalwarts who have made big contributions, but if the professor thinks that he is as good as Einstein, that would be foolishness. But the students regard him respectfully—”Oh, my professor is great guy. ” At the same time, they know Einstein was their professor’s professor. Einstein was also a professor, but he’s the professor’s professor. Here we have Srila Prabhupada, author of so many books, the acharya or pioneer who ushered in a whole new era. He connected the whole world to Lord Chaitanya’s sankirtan movement. And then you have a person like myself, Hansadutta, who is coming and telling you to chant Hare Krishna. But does that mean I’m as good as Srila Prabhupada? No, of course not. I’m doing a service for Srila Prabhupada, and I should be seen in that way, in the proper perspective.

DEVAKARAN: No matter what, we look at you as some kind of personality, something special—

HANSADUTTA: Because you can see me… because you’re a conditioned soul, and you look at me and think I look nice and sing nice.

DEVAKARAN: No, spiritually you look something very different. That is what we consider.

HANSADUTTA: That, whatever you see, is Srila Prabhupada. If there is anything nice or attractive or valuable about me, it is simply that I am telling you what I heard from Srila Prabhupada, and I am also telling you to worship him. Worship means follow. Worship does not mean bowing down. Bowing down is not worship.

DEVAKARAN: Follow instructions.

HANSADUTTA: Follow instructions. In the army, you have your commanding officer. Anybody here in the militiary? If all day long you just salute the commanding officer, do you think he would be pleased? No. He wants you to follow his order—”I want you to go out and do this.” And when you do it, then he’s pleased—”Oh, good soldier.” You get a promotion. We have to put things into perspective. It’s very, very important, because things are out of perspective. And you know, people are not foolish. They will say, “Who is this Hansadutta? Why they give him so much attention? What has he done?” And they are right in thinking like that. They are correct.

KUNOT KUDIAN: Maharaja, one more question. It seems that if a sannyasi gives initiation and then gets married … some people are telling that he is fallen. Is it correct that he is fallen?

HANSADUTTA: Yes, he is fallen. But falldown is always temporary. He can get up. just like a child will fall down. Does that mean the end, finished? No, the child will get up and again go on. Again he may fall, then get up again. It is another reason why we should keep our attention on Srila Prabhupada. We are more like children of Srila Prabhupada. A child may fall, but the father doesn’t fall. He is stable. There may be older children, but the father will not fall. There’s no shame in falling. There is shame in not getting up. If a child falls and says, “No, I’m not getting up any more,” the father says, “Come on! Up!” Once you have failed, try and try again. The whole Bhagavatam is full of falldowns. All the stories are full of fallen devotees. Even Brahma is fallen. It’s only Krishna who is above falldown. Why is the story there? Because he realises and then goes on glorifying Krishna.

BHIMA: I told one devotee that the Bhagavatam is full of examples of falldown, and he said, “Oh, those are brahmarishis, or munis. They are not pure devotees.”

HANSADUTTA: No, they are pure devotees. Otherwise, why their stories are there? Even Narada fell. Markandeya, Lord Shiva—not pure devotees? Chitraketu, Vitrasura … there are so many stories. Ajamila … why is the story there? There are so many stories. But the point is to get up and continue devotional service.

So this is another reason why we should worship Srila Prabhupada. As the children or disciples of Srila Prabhupada, we do have some shortcomings. Therefore our business is to point out that Srila Prabhupada is the boss.

KUNOT KUDIAN: It seems that gurus come from the spiritual world, and they are non-different from the Lord. How can they be fallen?

HANSADUTTA: Guru cannot be fallen. If guru falls, it means he was never a guru. Gold cannot become rusty. If gold becomes rusted, then it was never gold. The guru is not fallen. That’s why I say worship Srila Prabhupada. I may be fallen, but he’s not fallen. So in this way you’re safe.

There’s no mechanical formula. just like gold. Gold is gold. How much gold is it? What is the quanfity? The quantity and the quality? It may be 10-karat gold, 12 or 22-karat. It maybe one ounce. It may be one kilo. So guru means… how much of a guru is he? Guru means teacher. In the broadest sense, it means teacher. What is his capacity? This difference we can see between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples. Don’t you think there’s a difference? Did you ever see Srila Prabhupada?

KUNOT KUDIAN: No.

HANSADUTTA: Well, you’ve seen his books. Are there any disciples who can claim… any person who you can honestly say is greater than Srila Prabhupada? Then why artificially make believe? You think by making believe and giving that someone the attention that he will become great? No. If there is an ounce of gold, but you pay for a kilo, will the ounce of gold become a kilo? No. it will remain an ounce. So we have to see what is the quality, what is the substance of the guru. Not that “Oh, he’s guru” and therefore you become blind and he’s everything. Don’t be blind. Don’t be a blind follower. Be sincere.

GUEST: Maharaja, if there’s falldown, then that means it is the reaction of Vaishnava aparadha?

HANSADUTTA: It may be. But my point is, we know that Srila Prabhupada is not fallen. We know that. That’s for sure. And I say you should pay attention to him. That’s helpful. There’s no loss. This issue about the guru is very important, and it should be understood. Once it’s clear, then everything will flow. Then the flow will come. There’s a difference between the river Ganges and some other river. Or to put it another way, all rivers that flow into Ganges become Ganges. All rivers that flow away become non-Ganges. When the river comes in touch, it becomes as good as Ganges water. And those that flow away lose the Ganges quality. All of us can flow our attention, our love and worship to Srila Prabhupada. If we allow our flow to go away, it will be useless.

BHIMA: Some devotees want to know… yes, we worship Prabhupada and we distribute all these books here, but also you are the representative of Prabhupada who has guided us in Krishna consciousness. We understand that we have to give Prabhupada more respect, but you are also the person who has directed us, so we are giving you respect.

HANSADUTTA: Therefore, if you respect me, then do as I say. Really respecting me is respecting my order, my wish, my desire. So my desire is that I want you to show the respect and regard for Srila Prabhupada. And I want you not only to show it, but I want you to teach other people to do the same. That is real respect. Then you will be respecting me as his representative, and you will be really respecting Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to be respected. Srila Prabhupada wanted the public to follow his disciples. But the disciples want that people should follow Srila Prabhupada. People should understand that Srila Prabhupada is the fountainhead of this movement, the author of these wonderful books, and the source of all auspiciousness and blessings. It’s not contradictory. It’s correct. This is the nature of the transcendental life. Just as Krishna wants that you should worship Radharani, and Radharani wants that you should worship Krishna. The karmi thinks, “What is this? Krishna is the supreme, but He says, ‘I don’t want you to worship Me. Worship Radharani.’ But Radharani says, ‘No, no, no. I should not be worshipped. Worship Krishna.”‘ Not only that, but Krishna says, “Those who worship Me are not My devotees. I want you to worship My devotee.” But the devotee says, “No, no. I don’t want you to worship me. I want you to worship my guru.” And guru says, “No, no.” This is the nature of transcendental association. Try to understand this point. Srila Prabhupada told his disciples, “I want you to go out and preach Krishna consciousness. And Srila Prabhupada wanted that the public should hold his devotees in regard. And the devotees want that the public should hold Srila Prabhupada in regard. This is healthy, transcendental association. When it becomes anything else, then it becomes mundane, material. If a disciple of Srila Prabhupada thinks, “Yes, Srila Prabhupada wanted that people should follow me, so I am the one, and you should worship me,” then that person is the greatest fool, and he cannot help anyone spiritually.

BHIMA: That’s causing all the problems now in ISKCON.

HANSADUTTA: Isn’t it? Is it or isn’t it? You tell me. Am I correct?

Here you are the number one man. I want people to recognize that. But if you think that you’re the number one man, then you become a fool, and you are useless. But you say, “No, I want you to do what Hansadutta wants. ” And what does he want? “He wants us to worship Srila Prabhupada. That’s what he said.” Then our association is healthy, then it’s happy, and you can all be together. Although you may be the boss, you are not the boss of the boss of the boss of the boss. You are the servant of the boss, and so on and so forth. We have to understand the spiritual nature of our association. It is not mundane. just like your son… he will go out and get married and have children. You want him to. But if he thinks that he is more than you, then he’s a rascal. He will tell to his children, “My father is so wonderful. I want you to know him. ” They see him as grandfather. It doesn’t mean that they don’t love their father. They love him. Everything should be in proper perspective. We want a happy, transcendental association, transcendental family.

Yes, it’s becoming clear. That’s what I want. It’s what Srila Prabhupada wants. It’s proper and healthy.

People take worship to mean bowing down and giving some flowers, or singing some name. That’s not worship. That’s just a formality, like a soldier saluting his commanding officer. He’s supposed to do that, but that doesn’t mean that his job is finished there. He has to do what he is ordered to do by his commanding officer. If he doesn’t do that, then what is the use of his salute? So just chanting the name, offering pranams— that is useless. The real substance of our spiritual life is following the instructions of Krishna, and Srila Prabhupada brought us those instructions.