BY: GEORGE A. SMITH
Jan 14, 2013 — CALIFORNIA, USA — One of the things that the anti-Rtviks fail to mention and something that Puranjana notices and that I’ve even seen Rocana dasa sweat about, firstly when one of my submitted article (which he did not want to publish at the time but said that he would publish later – I still haven’t seen it) caught him off guard and just “winging it” is the alternative to Rtvik initiations, which is exactly what?
Even the anti-Rtviks except for the institutionalized ones agree that the rubber stamped ISKCON gurus are not the kinds of gurus that one with any intelligence or knowledge of the institution’s track record should take shelter of, so that leave what?
In the article about the Rtviks that I gave the title to in my previous post, MORE IRRESPONSIBLE MAD MEN — By George A. Smith which Rocana dasa probably considered to be a lead up to a recommendation of him to fill the post of guru, Srila Prabhupada’s answer or “answers rather” on who besides a pure devotee of Krsna can give diksa or give formal initiation.
One thing that the article does not point out because Srila Prabhupada, in the quotes from his writings that I included, points it out himself is though the answers are given on who can give initiation besides a pure devotee of Krsna, to either give or to accept initiation in accordance with the permissions that are offered goes against Srila Prabhupada’s recommendation, which are that only a pure devotee of Krsna or uttama-adhikari should give initiation and one should only accept initiation from such a person.
Line um up Rocana, or all you other anti-rtviks, they won’t and it’s exactly for the reason that Puranjana says (even a stopped clock tells the time truthfully twice a day), they won’t because they can’t. All that they can offer you instead is themselves, the alternatives that my article brings up to mention, all of those flawed individuals who are so foolish as to recommend themselves or their friends as being acceptable for you to take initiation from, against Srila Prabhupada’s recommendations.
One of the other things that my article brings up is the interesting fact that one does not need to accept formal initiation in order to make spiritual advancement. In fact one can make spiritual advancement up all the way to the middle level (at least) of devotional service without accepting formal initiation as the article shows and supports with Srila Prabhupada’s words in support of its conclusions.
Although this third allowance, which is that one may make spiritual advancement without accepting initiation is not explicitly stated it is so obviously implicit that had the Zonals been at all serious about attaining to real spiritual qualification before accepting disciples there is a good probability that the society would have gotten serious and that you would have quite a selection of pure devotees to choose from now, but it didn’t, and it’s still not and the Ritviks are proposing something that will interfere with the process of making spiritual advancement just how?
By going against Srila Prabhupada’s recommendation? But it isn’t.
By going against Srila Prabhupada’s recommendation that one should only accept initiation from a pure devotee of the Lord. It doesn’t tell you that. Just the opposite in fact, it tells you exactly that one should do that, so there are only two questions left to be answered. The first comes first and it is whether or not initiation after the fact of physical disappearance is a viable alternative, and the second is to my mind a bit different than the Rtviks formulate it.
The answer to the first question as to whether or not one can become an actual disciple of a guru who is no longer physically present is a resounding yes, because Srila Prabhupada has told us this himself in these words:
Srila Prabhupada: I don’t follow.
Tamala Krishna: Can a Christian in this age, without a Spiritual Master, but by reading the Bible, and following Jesus”s words, reach the…
Srila Prabhupada: When you read the Bible, you follow the Spiritual Master. How can you say without. As soon as you read the Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ. That means that you are following the Spiritual Master. So where is the opportunity of being without Spiritual Master?
Madhudvisa: I WAS REFERRING TO A LIVING SPIRITUAL MASTER
Srila Prabhupada: SPIRITUAL MASTER IS NOT QUESTION OF … SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ETERNAL…so your question is, “without Spiritual Master”. Without Spiritual Master you cannot be at any stage of your life. You may accept this Spiritual master or that Spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that, “by reading Bible”, when you read Bible that means you are following the Spiritual Master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ.
(SP Morning Walk, Seattle, 2/10/68)
The point of this first question has already been conceded by such stalwart anti-Rtviks as Rocana himself. Albeit very sullenly and being rather sectarian he did not want to see the connect but preferred to think that this bit of guru-tattva was applicable to the Christians only. But the Sun is the Sun and if it works and although it may not be so traditional a practice among the peoples of the East since before even the time of the Christians it is a practice that is traditional to our native stock.
Please note that as Christian history clearly shows this practice can be perverted and abused to among other things preach exclusivity and institutionalize intolerance to such a degree that anyone disagreeing with it could be put to death.
In the Christian formula above because there is no recognition of the potential for anyone else ever coming up to the level of a pure devotee or becoming Christ “like” or equally salvific, no provisions are made for anyone else ever to conduct imitations upon their own behalf within the main stream Christian Religions, will the Rtviks also be like this?
The second question then is whether the Rtvik formula can co-exist peaceably with the more traditional practice, both now and in the future.
Ys
George A. Smith
Tradition of what? That is the whole question we are asking you all along, what and where is your tradition? What is the name of the guru in your tradition? Where are your programs? How many people follow your tradition? And who are these followers and where are they? Where are your temples? Who are your leaders? What books has your guru wrote and where are they? We have no idea what your tradition is, because you never tell us any details of where your tradition is being applied? Where is your guru tradition be done in practice, and how come you never tell us? Now you are saying Rocana is waiting to be coronated as the guru in your tradition, the guru wanna be club is your tradition? Or what? We have no idea what your tradition is? Nor have you told us for the past 35 years, nor has Rocana ever told us who is the living guru in his tradition, ooop, because as you pointed out, he is his own guru in his own tradition. Rocana’s self-appointment to the post of guru is your tradition? Gaudiya Matha pt.2? I have no idea what your system is, nor does anyone else. ys pd
George A. Smith says: The second question then is whether the Rtvik formula can co-exist peaceably with the more traditional practice, both now and in the future.
IMHO, no!
But there is another alternative:
(http://pratyatosa.com/?P=18)
This seems to be pretty much the same idea that ISKCON Bangalore is reported to be currently proposing:
(http://www.iskcontruth.com/2012/12/iskcon-bangalore-vs-iskcon-mumbai-gbc.html)
There seem lots of devotees who conclude: I seen it on video – I saw how they put Prabhupada’s dead body in the earth, therefore, Prabhupada is dead and gone.
So this is in no way what Prabhupada exemplified. Prabhupada wanted that things go on exactly as if he would be physically present. Starting in 1969, Prabhupada was constantly travelling. Quite some temples Prabhupada could never visit. But still, things went on as if Prabhupada would be personnally present in each and every temple.
Prabhupada set things up in such a way that every temple was running perfectly without him physically present. So basically there is no difference whatsoever between the time when Prabhupada was physically present and now. Those who have realized that Prabhupada is fully present in his books for them there is no difference whatsoever.
So the whole controversy is actually that there are some who consider Prabhupada is a physical body, and since this body is dead, Prabhupada is gone.
Instead of organizing an united global Sankirtan movement, these devotees simply fight about who should be Prabhupada’s successors. They don’t even care about the trail of destruction caused by all those failures. Ok, they blame now the ritviks for having caused gurus to fail. For them only one thing counts, to have a living guru sitting on the throne. How much more childish can they possibly get?
Besides, look at those present ISKCON gurus more carefully. Is there anyone who is able to turn this planet into Vaikuntha? They mainly recruit their disciples at 3rd world countries, Asia’s prisons, Asia’s slums, devotees who consider to improve their awkward material situation when joing GM or ISKCON. As soon there is “golden opportunity” – they are gone.
Nothing wrong with that, however, no intelligent Westerners, famous people (like George Harrison), take present Vaishnavism seriously anymore. Wherever Prabhupada went university professors would line up to meet him and write commentaries on Prabhupada’s books.
GBC somehow manages to not sell all those temples like Villa Vrindavan (Italy), German Nrsinghadeva farm, Korsnas Gard temple (Sweden), Zurich temple (Switzerland), etc. etc about 42 European ISKCON properties. However, point is, no intelligent Westerner wants to have anything to do with GM or ISKCON. It all shifted to 3rd world countries, Latin America, Asia, Siberia.
So, question is, when discussing about qualification of spiritual master, phalena pariciate, what are those present 150 ISKCON gurus actually preaching right now?
Bh. Goerge: “In the Christian formula above because there is no recognition of the potential for anyone else ever coming up to the level of a pure devotee or becoming Christ..”
Right, thats were proponents of by hook or by crook – guru has to be alive doctrine – will finally lose it in the West when their failure rate of 41 “God’s direct representative” in 35 years goes on like that. Christianity had Lord Jesus never falling down after 2000 years and in future this also wont happen.
Intelligent Westerners at one point might ask this question, who needs a so called spiritual movement with such exorbitant error ratio? Let these folks pay tax like any bowling club! And basically it is happening already, no tax exempt for Hare Krishnas in Europe.
More speculative blather from the guy who only likes the sound of his own voice. George “Agent” Smith.
Especially the part about how much advancement a person can make without formal initiation.
His latest exercise in prideful futility does not really merit more than the dismissive sarcastic response printed above, especially after he has proven to dodge logic and reason during debate time and time again on the Prabhupadanugas.EU forum.
But he does parrot an all to familiar straw man concoction favored by the anti-Prabhupada ilk of whom Georgie is now making his play to become the leading voice of after Killing his Guru (Rocana das) in order to Become Guru (take his place at the top of the dung hill). It deserves exposure and defeating.
GS: “Please note that as Christian history clearly shows this practice can be perverted and abused to among other things preach exclusivity and institutionalize intolerance to such a degree that anyone disagreeing with it could be put to death.”
Any form, or practice can be perverted and abused etc. etc. This is just a strawman scare tactic to imply a negative connotation to the practice George wishes to demonize.
GS: “In the Christian formula above because there is no recognition of the potential for anyone else ever coming up to the level of a pure devotee or becoming Christ “like” or equally salvific, no provisions are made for anyone else ever to conduct imitations upon their own behalf within the main stream Christian Religions, will the Rtviks also be like this?”
Pure facetious rubbish. This statement above comes straight from Georges lower mind which has been brainwashed by various interpretive opinions as to the true Christian formula, you know, the one that Srila Prabhupada did not have a hard time summarizing in one paragraph. George acknowledges that the Chrisitan practice has been perverted and abused, but then goes on to utilize a perverted interpretation of Christianities true method and potency in order to equate it to Srila Prabhupada’s ritvik system in order to cast doubt on it.
Bas
The thing to fear is George A. Smith and his living gurus, which Rocana admits he a party to. George thinks we all forgot how his and Rocana’s program of the voted in “spokesman for God” Vatican Papal system was the cause of the inquisition, burning people at the stake, a few Crusades and so on, sorry we recall all that only too well. ys pd
George prabhu says in the end :”The second question then is whether the Rtvik formula can co-exist peaceably with the more traditional practice, both now and in the future.”wims
Hmmm. For me it is confusing, the ritivks preach basically the most important truths, however they spoil everything in the end turning all the good things by the “virtue” of their “slightly too much devotion” produced out of their subconscious material mind’s whims (in case of the good guys amongst them, mongers like Puranjan use their conscious kabalistic mind) into sectarian irreligion in fact. Now, isn’t it a wrong question prabhu? The Global Web of the Church of Ritvik’s is build on material fundaments (mostly talking and offending others) and so it will never be able to transcend the three modes, whereas the spiritual formulas of the Acaryas which you refer here to as “more traditional practices” are immediately placing even a neophyte who takes them seriously on a completely liberated nonmaterial platform are but a part of spiritual eternal realm. How they may coexist then?
remaining y.s.bj
George A. Smith writes ;
“The second question then is whether the Rtvik formula can co-exist peaceably with the more traditional practice, both now and in the future “
George, the answer to your second question , you have yourself given in your comments which reads ;
“Srila Prabhupada: SPIRITUAL MASTER IS NOT QUESTION OF … SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ETERNAL…so your question is, “without Spiritual Master”. Without Spiritual Master you cannot be at any stage of your life. You may accept this Spiritual master or that Spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that, “by reading Bible”, when you read Bible that means you are following the Spiritual Master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ.
(SP Morning Walk, Seattle, 2/10/68)
So where is the question of any traditional system of practice come into existence ?????
Is Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions, books not readily available and accessible to all the conditioned souls who are sincere and serious to cultivate God – Krishna Consciousness in order to take them back home Back to Godhead ?
The so called traditional system means simply materialistic practices which has been practised by different societies at different places by different people under the different leaders of the Institutions dictated by the various mode of the material nature. Is this not TRUE , Bhakta George ?????
So Bhakta George, please you must get out of the tamasic guna mixed with rajo guna in order for you to truly accept and OBEY the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada as it is without any interpretation.
Only when any one is situated at the mode of goodness, Sato guna , free from all material desires then, one can begin to accept and OBEY the instructions of the Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada. Otherwise, all these talking is waste of time not only for you but also for other readers as well who enjoy your such misleading writings.
Hope it meets you well, Bhakta George.
Hari BOL.
YS……… Amar Puri.
Bhakta George please read what Srila Prabhupada says ;
” “The answer to your Istagosthi questions are as follows: Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance.”
(Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Hope you find it satisfactory, Bhakta G.
Hari BOL.
YS…… Amar Puri.
Allow me to translate the latest Gobbledygook written by Jarek.
Blah Blah blah, ritviks.
Blah blah blah, traditionallists.
Blah blah blah, I don’t have a solution but everyone else but George is definitely a neophyte and wrong.
(implication: George you are my Acarya, but even you are beginning to not make sense, someone please save me)
Jarek: … of the Acaryas which you refer here to as “more traditional practices” are immediately placing even a neophyte who takes them seriously on a completely liberated nonmaterial platform are but a part of spiritual eternal realm. How they may coexist then?
[PD: Right, the worship of the bona fide acharyas take us to the liberated state right away, whereas worship of the GBC’s debauchee messiahs takes one to, well truth be told, to the “tradition” of worship of debauchees, which is of course, why Rocana, George A Smith, the GBC gurus and others of this ilk claim that this bogus process is “the tradition.”
Right, the ritvks follow that actual tradition, that we ALL need to worship a bona fide pure devotee, that is our tradition for the past, I dunno how long for sure, but lets just say its been our tradition for the past 480 quad-trillion kalpas, and see if we can even comprehend that amount of time just to start off with. There is no other tradition than this, you need to worship the pure devotee, that is the only tradition we have ever had, ever, ok eternally. ys pd]
(http://rtvik.com/?TP=4312)
Tradition of what? That is the whole question we are asking you all along, what and where is your tradition?
I was speaking of the more traditional Gaudiya Vaisnava traditional practice where physically present gurus initiate physically present disciples, not of “my” tradition. I was wondering what would become of anyone who disagreed with you should you ever happen to attain to a social majority.
I think that you have answered that question for all of us. If you are unwilling to live in peace with others simply because they do not subscribe to your own particular views, what does that say about you?
My tradition? I am traditionally intolerant of narrow minded bigots, fascists, fundamentalis, etc., what about you?
As
‘ traditionWhat is the name of the guru in your tradition? Where are your programs? How many people follow your tradition? And who are these followers and where are they? Where are your temples? Who are your leaders? What books has your guru wrote and where are they? We have no idea what your tradition is, because you never tell us any details of where your tradition is being applied? Where is your guru tradition be done in practice, and how come you never tell us? Now you are saying Rocana is waiting to be coronated as the guru in your tradition, the guru wanna be club is your tradition? Or what? We have no idea what your tradition is? Nor have you told us for the past 35 years, nor has Rocana ever told us who is the living guru in his tradition, ooop, because as you pointed out, he is his own guru in his own tradition. Rocana’s self-appointment to the post of guru is your tradition? Gaudiya Matha pt.2? I have no idea what your system is, nor does anyone else. ys pd
Let’s summarize. “Traditional Gaudiya Vaisnava society” – did I miss something? Where does it exist besides Prabhupada’s attempt? Isnt essence of Gaudiya Vaishnavism to establish the yuga-dharma – harinam sankirtan – in each and every town and village? “We are trying to fulfill the Lord’s desire, and our attempt has become fairly successful”. (Antya 3.104)
It is difficult for me to figure how Rocana das and his comrades-in-arms are in any way different than what present ISKCON’s guru system is accomplishing? Present ISKCON gurus conclude, so many predecessors are fallen down, I’m now taking care of disciples of those who are already fallen down, let me do it better. Better safe than sorry. So they try hard to not also join the list of so many failures.
Now, Rocana das and his fellow campaigners say, no, ISKCON’s living guru system is doing it wrong, they don’t know how to do it right, this is not according the sampradaya acarya. When we ask Rocana das and his combatants, why don’t you join the GBC they do exactly what you are saying, Rocana: no, no, this is not exactly how living gurus function….. Does it make sense to anybody?
On the other hand, what have the ritviks done? Did the ritviks cause so many failures with thousands of disenchanted disciples, ISKCON’s reputation as genuine spiritual movement practically destroyed in the West?
Let’s say there would have been no Prabhupadanugas, no ritviks, no PADA, no Final Order (TFO), nothing. Situation of ISKCON’s failing gurus, guru error rate, would have been exactly the same. Damage would be exactly the same.
However, Rocana das and his interventionists never mention ISKCON’s predicament since years. It all focuses and is projected upon the ritviks. What is this called, losing touch with reality?
Dear ritviks, or maybe dear ones please read it carefully, possibly whitout changing, adding and concocting(posible?!!!) , the quotation is this from a letter of Srila Prabhupada to Hamsaduta Prabhu:
“Next January there will be an examination on this Bhagavad-gita. Papers will be sent by me to all centers, and those securing the minimum passing grade will be given the title as Bhakti-sastri. Similarly, another examination will be held on Lord Caitanya’s Appearance Day in February, 1970 and it will be upon Srimad- Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita. Those passing will get the title of Bhakti-vaibhava. Another examination will be held sometimes in 1971 on the four books, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and Nectar of Devotion. One who will pass this examination will be awarded with the title of Bhaktivedanta. I want that all of my spiritual sons and daughters will inherit this title of Bhaktivedanta, so that the family transcendental diploma will continue through the generations. Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations. That is my program. So we should not simply publish these books for reading by outsiders, but our students must be well versed in all of our books so that we can be prepared to defeat all opposing parties in the matter of self- realization.”
68-12-03 Hamburg
If just for a moment you simply try not to adulterate ( remember this is the only condition how to become a perfect disciple, or Sri guru as per Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s desire) you will see it clearly what we talk about. We supposed to be a family and there will be naturally next generations, where next qualified disciples become qualified gurus(“… but just a regular guru, nothing more, …when I order…but the training must be completed..”) So simple, but it all requires hard work, time and patience. “Change means rascal”, so instead of destroying the heritage of Srila Prabhupada under the notorious liars of FisKcon or the TFO mongers like Puranjana let us follow the Acarya Srila Prabhupada, what means no change, simply repeating and following Lord Sri Krishna and His representativ- Acarya-Sri Guru, the Guru inside and outside.
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
y.s. bj
Tradition of what? That is the whole question we are asking you all along, what and where is your tradition?
I was speaking of the more traditional Gaudiya Vaisnava traditional practice where physically present gurus initiate physically present disciples, not of “my” tradition. I was wondering what would become of anyone who disagreed with you should you ever happen to attain to a social majority.
[PD: Right, George and Rocana follow their concocted “guru tradition” friends who are advertised on the Sampradaya Sun, ok — such as (a) “Friends of the BBT” aka Jayadvaita swami (he says gurus engage in illicit sex with men, women and children) — fine standards for messiahs that George and Rocana have here, less than donkey behavior is the behavior of their messiahs, that figures;
Gaudiya Matha folks like Mayesvara (their gurus were deviants, criminals, bi-sexuals and etc.), Srila Prabhupada says these gurus are: cock roaches who think they are Garuda birds, envious snakes, hogs and dogs, sudras, bugs biting the king, kill guru and become guru, business men, and so on, … small wonder then — George has supported Rocana program, since their program is in favor of snakes and animals, what to speak of child molesters, being the messiahs for human society;
Folks like Bhakti Vikas swami, who is a sannyasa initiate of Bhavanda’s main henchman and groupie Jayapataka, and who was voted in as guru by the same folks who recoronated Bhavananada, after it was learned that he was having homosex with taxi drivers in the holy dham. Sorry, we do not accept that homosex in the holy dham is the activity of the messiahs from heaven.
And in sum, sorry, we simply do not accept that ANY of this is is a traditional living guru system. Sridhara Maharaja said in 1936 there needs to be a living guru, because that is the tradition, and he said the same thing after 1977. Of course, his gurus are living deviants and not living gurus.
George has also told us Rocana is his living guru in waiting, well yes, he supports the molester messiahs program, so of course that is another of George’s example of a living guru. When is George going to tell us why he has been supporting Rocana, at least up to recently where he says Rocana is his guru in waiting, and their living guru tradition of illicit sex, drugs, crimes and murders? Even cannibal’s witch doctors do not worship illicit sex with men, women and children bogus living guru projects, why has George been a huge supporter of that process by support of the Rocana deviation? ys pd]
Dear Bhakta Jarek Prabhu, it’s becoming more and more obvious that you simply want to waste our time. How many times must I repeat the following before it sinks in?
1. Follow the Latest Order
From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada on the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Hyderabad, India, April 15, 1975:
If the captain of the ship says “5° starboard” and the first mate replies, “But captain, before you told me ‘10° port’.,” then it can be understood that the first mate has gone insane.
(http://pratyatosa.com/?P=27&TP=349)
Therefore, the only way to contradict the July 9, 1977 letter is to find a signed, written document to all TPs and GBCs that is dated later than July 9, 1977. Why is this so difficult for you to grasp?
Bhakta Jarek, thanks for reminding and repeating GBC slogans / GBC sales promotion. Present ISKCON does exactly what you are saying, everybody is a spiritual master. Go there and be happy.
Unfortunately your “school of thought” produced so many bogus gurus that Vaishnavism is about of being kicked out in the West, rejected by people in general.
Might be that meanwhile you joined somewhere else and simply come here to spam this forum – as Bhakta George mentioned, primates feel that urge of marking a territory?
You got now plenty of opportunities to explain how your idea of “living gurus” is in any way different than what is just going on in present ISKCON.
BTW, tell your boss Rocana to also rejoin ISKCON’s guru system since this is what he is promoting with his “DOR”. In this way people can know what is what and are not fooled by you pseudo reformers who only want one thing, epidemic fall-down of so called “genuine spiritual masters” to go on.
In case you keep a dog, it might be more advanced to become a disciple of your dog, dogs are more loyal and faithful than those rugrats, HG Rocana Dasa:
ISKCON Fallen Gurus List
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-09/editorials5364.htm
So mataji (sorry I don’t call your alleged(?) name, in case You are initiated by Srila Prabhupada between 1966-1977 I humbly ask, please write about, otherwise I don’t accept the FisKcon bhogus show, you must know very well what I mean, you such an unalloyed FisKcon expert) you obviously can’t stop offending blindly and without reason/ You addicted to concocting things, and now even call Prabhupada letters to be GBC slogans, only because the apes from GBC inc. of West Bengal (remember guys fromFisKcon who do you work for) are misusing them for their demoniac agenda. Are you a women at all by the way? Seriously, but never mind your problem. Pratyatosha das could you wake up and show me directly at least single one written instruction that Srila Prabhupada wants the ritvik system to go on after His Divine Graces disappearance? (we know you can’t, but you liars and mongers have to admitt it once, than we may be friends again) Directly stating it, written document or even a sentence from Srila Prabhupada prabhu, not the mayavada indirect speculative ovestreched mudy talk you guys love so much. We are simple folk.
y.s.bj
Jarek the jerk read:
History:
July 9th, 1977 – “Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative.”
(Srila Prabhupada’s final signed Directive describing the initiation system to be followed in ISKCON, sent to all GBC’s and Temple Presidents)
July 11th, 1977 – “A letter has been sent to all the Temple Presidents and GBC which you should be receiving soon describing the process for initiation to be followed in the future. Srila Prabhupada has appointed thus far eleven representatives who will initiate new devotees on His behalf.”
(Letter from Tamala Krishna Goswami to Kirtananda describing the above system) July 19th, 1977 – “Make your own field and continue to be Ritvik and act on my charge.” (Room Conversation, above dictated by Srila Prabhupada to his secretary Tamala Krishna Goswami)
July 31st, 1977 – “Make your own field and continue to become ritvik and act on my behalf.”
(Above dictation sent out to Hamsaduta Swami by Tamala Krishna Goswami in a letter) Nov 1977 – “The system of management will continue as it is now and there is no need of any change.”
(Srila Prabhupada’s Last Will and Testament, which now comes into force for the lifetime of ISKCON)
Nov 1977 – “In the event of death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is my initiated disciple …”
(Srila Prabhupada’s Last Will and Testament, which now comes into force for the lifetime of ISKCON. The above system of selecting directors can only work if Srila Prabhupada’s initiated disciples exist throughout ISKCON’s lifetime.)
Dear Jarek, You keep saying we are offending people, whom?
You also ask for written proof that Srila Prabhupada wanted to be worshiped after his departure, so what you are really saying that unless someone like Jesus writes a letter to his followers saying they must worship him after he is physically departed, they should not worship him? Thus the whole process of worship of Jesus needs to stop, because there is no official and legal letter from Jesus saying his worship should continue? I suppose the fact that the Sun never writes a letter saying, “I am illuminating the universe,” means — the Sun no longer is? This is silly, Jesus worship has to stop, because he did not write a legal letter saying his worship should continue? Are you taking your pills today or not? Incidently, this is what the Pharisees argued, Jesus has no letters, hmmm, so you are part of the Pharisees? ys pd
Jarek, none of that ever happened. To this day, that exact system under which Srila Prabhupada said his disciples might become qualified to initiate their own disciples has never been created.
So, just consider that was a letter, written to a leader in 1971, expressing just another one of the hopes Srila Prabhupada had, which was later dashed on the rocks of reality, Just like the DOM letter written a year earlier. The instructions in that letter were not as difficult as exemplifying mastery in all Gaudia scriptures. It was simply to hold GBC elections. And to add the DOM to each temples charter.
That never happened either. In 1974 SP asked his leaders to add the DOM again. They refused.
So don’t get all hung up on something that never happened.
Srila Prabhupada made the adjustments over the years and created the best initiation system to reflect the REALITY, and then put it into writing sent to all temples. A little more weight than a letter sent to ONE PERSON in 71 that was NEVER acted on wouldn’t you say? Hmmmm?
No one needs to initiate their own disciples to become Krsna conscious and make superior advancement. No one needs to become yours, or George Smith’s, initiated disciple to become Krsna conscious and make superior advancement.
Get over it.
Lord Chaitanya, the Six Goswamis, Jesus, Haridas Thakura, Srila Bhaktivinode, Gaura Kishore Das Babaji, and so on and so forth, none of them can be worshiped after their departure because, they never wrote a letter saying their worship was required after they departed? This is what Harikesha was saying, there is no letter, well that is why we are not disciples of Harikesha. ys pd
Dear Mahesh Raj das prabhu why are you not simply repeating what Your great Master said, thus you could be a regular guru(simply repeat what the guru says, everything he says, all his final orders, not just some one TFO nonsense), but guru when ordered by Him of course. And though you are repeating your mind in the spirit of thinking that you follow your master you must still consider yourself to be a guru, this is in fact the position you take prabhuji, though with the difference that you are self made guru(…another rascal guru,… the training is not completed), or so called guru, dishonest guru in disguise as contrived ritvik, completely unathorised anyway, since you don’t have the structures nor means to rebuild the once working authorised system. Of course the main problem is the same as with the so called ISKCON gurus, there is no order given to you guys to do the guru job in the forms you invented, no one word no one statement. It is only your lust and anger, nothing more. Simple logic. Show me clear statement for the generations to come, where the Acarya calls everyone to become his diksha disciple, instaed you show me with ass like obstinacy the July 9 letter prabhu where there is no one single word about the time after Srila Prabhupada enters samadhi (India, I am here). This is the verdict of the wise and awaken, whereas I am just taking my chance in following the great souls(some maybe not so great yet according to you ritviks, but give them guys some time they will do fine very quickly, we all may do well, whereas you will have to take havy karma for false teachings and liars propaganda.
y.s. bj.
The tradition that I am speaking of is the one by which all of the acaryas have availed themselves of, the one by which a physically present disciples accepts initiation from a physically present spiritual master. Of course people who have no respect. Even Lord Caitanya and Lord Krsna themselves took initiation in this sacred and time honored fashion.
P.S. NO Puranjana you are a liar, I never said that Rocana dasa was my guru or that I had a living guru. I have an eternal guru but she has not been physically present now for over 500 years.
P.S. NO Puranjana you are a liar, I never said that Rocana dasa was my guru or that I had a living guru. I have an eternal guru but she has not been physically present now for over 500 years.
PD: George, wake up, you have been Rocana’s best cheer leader for years. And you recently said he could be a guru, so you are supporting him and saying he is qualified to be a guru. So he is a guru in your opinion. That makes him your guru since — you said he is — or should be — a guru.
And he is NOT our guru, he is a guru in your opinion, so he is your rubber stamped guru and not ours.
And now you are confuting yourself by saying you are a (ritivk style) follower of a female guru who departed 500 years ago, so you are agreeing with us, that you can represent a departed guru, unless of course, you are saying you are her guru successor? You are confusing us again George. And if you are her successor, then where are your books, temples, programs and devotees and etc.? ys pd
Somewho you are a funny guy Puranjana, I do even kind of liked you, but as an aspiring bhakta have to reject you in any case at first. Like with an amazingly looking, colorful snake for example, though nicely looking, although he is being created by Krishna we are right to kill the venomous jealous rascal. Anyone who follows such serpent in person as as you are Puranjana is as spiritualy dead and zombie like yourself. Alas, you are a frick rascal greatest liar I have met in my life. Ritivks are damned and untrue right from the start just because they follow such an rascal liar snake like Puranjana. May God forgive you lies on Kailasa, or bhakta George or even the poor guys from FisKcon when you contrives things in your sick manner, things about them which never happened in their individual lives. You are like an stinking sick bag of the karmi pizza womits you are eating every day.
y.s. bj
Thanks Jarek, ok, you are saying now you take leave of debating here at this forum and this is twice-overdue. In cyberspace we do not know if people are still devotees and what are their real intentions.
In sum, you were not satisfied with our answers and we couldnt find out where actually is your living guru hiding?
As said above we were fair enough to give you plenty of opportunity to explain what is your understanding of genuine guru-tattva, although from begin with we felt the very same undertone like at Sampradaya Sun, badmouthing instead of presenting who is a genuine authorized qualified living guru. And, why you do not rejoin ISKCON since they do exactly what you are perpetually stating, a spiritual master has to be physically present and if there is none he has to be voted in by three fourths vote.
In any case, we cannot have here name-calling, we are all victims of ISKCON’s mismanagement and not in need of being verbally attacked by other ex-ISKCONites. Thank you for your understanding. ys bm
Bhakta Jarek :
And though you are repeating your mind in the spirit of thinking that you follow your master you must still consider yourself to be a guru, this is in fact the position you take prabhuji, though with the difference that you are self made guru
Mahesh: Prabhu, ALL the time I have consistently stated SRILA PRABHUPADA IS OUR DIKSA GURU.
Self made gurus are the bogus ISKCON factory rubber-stamped who want their vyasa puja and disciples.
Bhakta Jarek
Show me clear statement for the generations to come, where the Acarya calls everyone to become his diksha disciple, instaed you show me with ass like obstinacy the July 9 letter prabhu where there is no one single word about the time after Srila Prabhupada enters samadhi (India, I am here).
68-04-12. Letter: Dayananda
REGARDING PARAMPARA SYSTEM: THERE IS NOTHING TO WONDER FOR BIG GAPS. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYAS, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.
Thanks Jarek prabhu, but no one is following anything I ever said? I am simply forwarding citations from Srila Prabhupada, and people are agreeing with those citations. They are following what he said, we are simply pointing out what he said.
I am also citing our opponents, ok people like George, and he says he has a 500 years old female guru. So he is the one who just said this, not me? I am citing him. He say that he worships a departed guru. That means he is a liar and a hypocrite by saying others cannot do so, and we are simply pointing that out. That is all we are doing. I am simply showing his quotes and the hypocrite problem with his quotes.
You by the way are citing nobody and nothing as your authority? You keep forgetting to tell us who your living guru is, or if you even have one? That makes you another liar / bluffer.
At least George had the decency to tell us he is the ritvik type follower of a departed guru from 500 years ago, you on the other hand cannot identify your current diksha guru source at all. All you are doing is saying we cannot promote Srila Prabhupada, but you are promoting nothing and nobody. You are a nihilist, you just want everything to be destroyed, but you have nothing to replace it with. You are simply trying to tear down others faith in the pure devotee, but you have no positive alternative, this is called nihilist. You want to destroy others faith in the guru, but you have no better plan. You just want Srila Prabhupada’s worship to stop. This is called demon-ology by all of us, not just me? ys pd
Yes dear Mahesh Raj prabhu, I do pick up from our Acarya Srila Prabhupada as well. By His mercy I got the Bhagavad Gita in 1984, I read it and started to sing Hare Krishna, chanting meant to me then only sing, it took me several hours daily for quite some months till I got to knew from FisKcon devotees how to chant japa. So I assume I got to know somewho Sri Guru by Krishnas mercy. However being stupid I have turned away from Him by consequently accepting bhogus zonal Acaharya as my so called diksha guru, my fault, but also because You guys did allow them to kidnapp the society, after they poisoned Srila Prabhupada. Thank you however that at some time you started to debunke the false system and reestablish the worship of the acarya. But now you went to far, you want me and others to just take diksha from H.D.G. But I ask You Mahesh Raj prabhu show me how He does say it clearly to me or others to come, how does He explain it clearly, as clearly as He did explain to us everything else we suppose to know(“all I had to say is in my books”), how He explains such vast change in philosophy which practices are described otherwise in all of His books, letters, records, etc. Don’t you assume that it would be much wiser after initially warning the general masses about FsiKcon being a shadow Krishna Consciousmess movement gave them the oportunity to chant Hare Krishna and pick up from the acarya directly what to do, and what not to do untill they become strong in their individual spiritual realisation of completely belonging to Krishna, instead of pushing another “must be initiation system” madness in the name o a new sectarian business? What really counts is to chant congregationally and purely, it mens avoiding offences. How you senior disciple of the Acarya want to put an end to constant fight and controversies amongst those few who at all worry about Krishna and Srila Prabhupada? Why can’t we just chant altogether day after day to counteract the offences we all make, and finally give some stop to the horrible scenario of Kali yuga? Why and what for build another splited groups, so some unscrupulous rascal may again force another kind of bhogus initiation trap upon innocent fools? If the ritivk order is true than after some years of chanting and following strictly rules and regulations the educated individual will come by Krishnas mercy to understand it, otherwise you will surely vanish and spoil the chance of the rare human form(this is our opinion of course in contradiction to yours) forcing people to believe in something you can’t show(prabhus it is only in your heads, you again failed toi show me) instead of understand and follow naturally that we are simple meant to serve to Krishnas pure devotees under the guidance of the Hare Krishna Movement (ISKCON) Acarya and Founder Srila Prabhupada.
y.s. bj
p.s. Puranjana I am depending on Srila Prabhupada up to the degree my stone like heart allowes me to do. I do not pray or offer services to any bhogus or even kanistha, or madhyama gurus ((as per NOD vers 5 by Sri Rupa Goswami Prabhupad). You don’t get by the way that guru is no the question of living or not living, however there is vani and vapu, and after Guru choosed to disappear “only” vani is left to be served to, and of course according to the vani we are trying to become qualified and approach a selfrealised soul as Krishna says us to do in Bhagavad Gita. This we have to try, whether we succeede or not is up to THEM. Here some nice quotes against your narrowmindednessThe guru is not just a person but a principle
“Spiritual master is not that a particular man is spiritual master. Spiritual master is a truth. So what is that truth? The truth is samsara-davanala-lidha-loka-tranaya karunya-ghanaghanatvam **. The whole world is in the blaze of material pangs, threefold miseries. And a person who is authorized to deliver people from that material pangs, he is called spiritual master.”
Sri Vyasa-puja — Hamburg, September 5, 1969
“As God is one, similarly, guru is also one. There cannot be different gurus. Because God is one, how there can be different gurus? The principle of guru is one. The original guru is Krsna.”
Arrival Lecture — San Francisco, July 15, 1975
“guru cannot be two. Mind that. The person may be different, but the message is the same. Therefore guru is one.
The Vedic instruction is, tad vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Gurum eva, “one must.” Eva means “must.” Abhigacchet, this verb is used when there is the sense of “must.” It never says “Go to a guru,” but he says “Must approach the guru.” Guru is one. Guru cannot be two. Gurum evabhigacchet. And we see also, practically, in the disciplic succession of guru, the same thing is spoken by the guru. Same thing. Repetition of the same subject matter, no other.”
Lecture: What is a Guru? — London, August 22, 1973
“The spiritual master can be present wherever the disciples wants. A spiritual master is the principle, not the body.”
– Srila Prabhupada letter — May 28, 1968.
y.s. bj
Dear Bhakta Jerek
Thank you for your kindness, but plese do not damn anyone on my account, their karma will catch up with them and then it’ll just be “flush” and down the chute, it is the perversion of the Rtvik type of initiatory system that such as these represent, not their type of initiatory system which Srila Prabhupada accepted to be valid that we must oppose and fear the spread of , and that we can only do by first accepting that Srila Prabhupada did accept such a type of initiatory system as the Rtviks practice to be valid and then move on from there. That frees up your engergies and dissacociates you from them and them from the Rtviks as well. “Whatever actions a great man performs, common men foillow.” Set the standard prabhu, ignore the envious and dishonest and trust to Krsna that they will certainly have their reward.
Just my two cents prabhu, but I figured I should say thank you prabhu for championing the truth.
Ys, George Smith
I am sorry to hear the new concepts from you dear bhakta George.
In answer to that I will honestly and humbly propose study this masterpiece, please:
“RITTVIK AS COVERT CHRISTIANITY
Since Christianity predominates in the West, and since many of Prabhupada’s disciples came from that background of mleccha-dharma, it should be no surprise that it has rebounded to influence the Krishna consciousness movement.
Srila Prabhupada was sardonic and contemptuous of the concept of Christ taking on the sins of his modern-day so-called disciples (“very good idea”). He considered it nothing more than a convenient rationalization. But the Christians put together congregations based on massive baptisms (initiations). It’s an easier gig then facing the hard reality, so the rittviks copy the Christian way, although they don’t admit to this.
Rittvik is very centrifugal at the present moment. So was Christianity in the first few centuries. The rittviks do not have a commission or a hierarchy, as does the ACRONYM, but time changes things. Nevertheless, like the ACRONYM, the rittvik movement is based on a kind of “ecclesiastical convention” and that tends toward dogma, in due course of time.
The rittvik system indirectly encourages its followers to concoct that they are hearing Prabhupada speak to them in their hearts, just as the followers of the mleccha-dharmas, supposedly hearing Christ. The bona fide system urges neophytes to control their minds.
Although Prabhupada slightly favored the mleccha-dharma over the atheist decadence it opposes, that should be seen as nothing more than a slight encouragement. All such statements should never be interpreted to mean that he wanted his devotees to become like the Christians or to copy their initiation system.”
The autor is Kailsacandra prabhu. I expect here Puranjana or his pale disciple bhakta Mark to come up with their distorted rants of hate, but the wise and serious may benefit from under:http://therealexplanation.org/article/flaws_concoct.html
y.s. bj
Kailash has no initiation system? He has stolen his one and only disciple from us. We have asked this many times, what is his initiation system? And where is is system applied?, and we never get an answer. Kailash has no system to initiate anyone? In the past 35 years Jesus has become the guru for billions of people, and in the same period of time, not even one flea, one lice, one banana spider, one mouse, one turtle, one song bird, ….. in some not even one animal has become a disciple of Kailash? In 35 years Jesus has inspired a billion people to worship God, whereas Kailash has not even been able to save one cock roach in the past 35 years. Yes, good comparison, Jesus is helping billions of people worship God, meanwhile Kailash has not even been able to save one cock roach in the same period of time. We agree with Jarek, this is a good comparison. ys pd
Well, neither Jarek, nor George, nor SG, nor Kibbosh Kailash, has been able to provide proof from accepted Gaudiya Canons, that representative initiations in absentia are forbidden.
Srila Prabhupada did exactly that from 74-77. He was completely physically absent from the process from top to bottom. His disciples did everything. I didn’t hear anyone attacking Srila Prabhupada then. How dare you let your disciples recommend and accept aspirants, choose their names, chant on their beads, and initiate them over a fire on your behalf and call them YOUR DISCIPLES. You are not even DOING anything! You don’t even meet them or get to know them. What a fraud!
But the DAY AFTER HE DEPARTED, boy all smiles and I am the unopposed new acarya.
And now what Srila Prabhupada was doing is claimed to be against sastra. But these so called logicians cannot provide even a smidgen of a prohibition. All they can do is say that it was never done before. And that is somehow tantamount to a prohibition. My 8 year old niece would laugh at such a proposal.
Nothing else changes. There are still teachers and students, senior devotees overseeing and correcting junior devotees. The books are the basis. All the complete structure of instructions given by the Founder Acarya for his society are available in black and white. Nothing left to chance.
But that isn’t enough for a faithless guru wannabee who exalts his so called rationalizations above pure reason even a child can understand.
There is proof that Srila Prabhupada ordered the ritvik system for managing formal initiations, and did not set a time limit. Proof that he said do not change the management systems. That is all that is necessary to continue as it was. For the honest and simple.
Show us the proof of a prohibition in the scriptures. We are all waiting breathlessly for your erudite scholarship to save millions of souls from a fate worse than meditating on God through Jesus, or Krsna through HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami. Deliver these ill fated masses to the larval feet of your slimy sabha if you can.
Chumps. The lot of you. And Jarek can kiss my pale but hairy you know what.
Dear Bhakta Mark,
Please forgive me.I am not trying to divert your discussion.I am just an 18 year old engineering student,who wants to understand Krsna Consciousness.Since I have studying modern science,it is becoming difficult for me to accept some of the things that Prabhupada says, for example on the moon issue.And that is why, I’ve been posting comments on “Update on rocana Das’ Sampradadya Sun”—so that I can develop my conviction.And whenever a particular doubt of mine gets cleared,I feel more inspired to chant and study Prabhupada’s books–and whenever I get even an insignificant doubt,I get worried to get it cleared..I request you to please kindly tell me how to get convinced about the moon issue…..how I can get it cleared on this site.As Puranjana Prabhu said,without getting free from doubts of this nature, I getting nowhere..So,please give me a way out of this problem…If not in this site….I don’t believe I can clear my doubts anywhere else.Because this site is very liberal and posts all my doubts.So I don’t know any other way to express myself.
As for the melodramatic comments,you can take it for granted that I do not know how to speak with devotees…..please forgive me.
So, I humbly request you to not take any offense and provide me some guidance….because I don’t have ready guidance around me.I request you to read the comment that I posted yesterday on “Update on Rocana Das’ Sampradaya Sun”.
Begging for a reply,
Your servant,
Santosh
My Dear Santosh,
Hare Krishna. AGTSP.
To remove your doubts about the Moon is closer to the Earth or Sun is closer to the earth, you need to study the SB. 5.24 by HDG. Srila Prabhupada. You must have faith in the writings of Srila Prabhupada. Then only you can understand from the description. If you go and search into it from ten different places, you will be lost completely and possibly lose faith more in the description of the Srimad Bhagavatam.
From SB.5.24.6 ” Below the abodes of the Yakṣas and Rākṣasas by a distance of 100 yojanas [800 miles] is the planet earth. Its upper limits extend as high as swans, hawks, eagles and similar large birds can fly.” we can understand that above the earth are the abodes of Yaksas and Raksasas aka. Bhuta and Preta. Above that is the Rahu perhaps and so on because Rahu also acts like Bhuta or Preta creates hovac as per Vedic Astrology. So, this indicates that far far away above the Earth is situated the Luminary planet Sun and / or the Moon etc.
This is a very simple description in the SB.
Hope your faith is restored properly as per your conviction.
Hari BOL…..
YS………… Amar Puri.
Dear Santosh Prabhu,
Thank you for clarifying your situation. I can empathize with what you are going through.
To help you, please answer these questions.
Is there a temple nearby to you? Perhaps one run by Prabhupadanugas under the name Iskcon Inc?
Have you read the 1972 Bhagavad Gita as it is, cover to cover, including Purports?
Please realize that there are some very intricate plans that governments have set into motion in order to compete for resources on this planet, and to convince their populations to support their efforts with their tax money, instead of rebelling or electing them out of office.
Did you know that it has been proven that at least SOME of the so called trips to the moon were DEFINITELY STAGED AND FILMED BY EXPERTS IN THEATRE SETS AND THE DESERT IN AMERICA?
Those few pieces of footage from the one mission that are harder to find fault with, are cast into suspicion due to the above fact.
Even assuming the mainstream assumptions made by astronomy and telescopes as to the distance to the moon and the nature of space are correct, some scientists have also put forth a few serious questions that certain physical laws would be broken to get to the moon by craft, and these have not been answered to everyone’s full satisfaction.
And the Vedas speak for themselves. Much of what is calculated in the Vedas does not meet the calculations given by the mainstream scientists. Either that or people are misunderstanding what the Veda’s say.
A serious student of the more hidden history of politics and nation building of the last 2 centuries can easily explain the motive to organize such a massive hoax in order to sway public interest and build national esteem. The compartmentalization of duties can be organized in such a way that people in one department would not be aware of the trickery in another.
You also must realize that the Moon described in the Veda’s is a Major Heavenly Planet, ruled by one of the most powerful Demigods. Lord Candra. Why could he not, with his own mental intention, create a sphere made of rock and dust, and use that illusion as a place to accept space craft that miraculously were able to make it 240,000 miles into space in their vain attempt to visit his planet without proper moral and behavioral qualifications?
Have you ever read about the powers of Demigods?
Anyhow, these are just some things to think about. Your doubts should ALWAYS first be directed to make you skeptical of anything scientists say they have accomplished. Especially if the claim is coming from a Government sanctioned organization that was created by Nazi scientists imported under secrecy into America.
Not to mention, that Srila Prabhupada is obviously 100% correct about all details of the Spiritual Sky, Sri Radha and Krsna, Lord Caitanya, and all the transcendental lilas of the scriptures. These are what is ultimately important.
Would you lose faith in Srila Prabhupada’s authority on spiritual subjects because he once said that we “cannot live for 3 seconds without air”? Or misquoted a verse once or twice? Or quoted a scientist who said the average female brain is 34 ounces, in order to make a point. Should he have dug up some graves and weighed brains in order to find out that the average weight was actually more than that? Would that make him more credible as to the nature of Sadhana Bhakti, Raganuga Bhakti, and Ragatmika Bhakti?
Think like this, and you will be ok.
Hare Krsna
ys
B.Mark
Dear Santosh Prabhu, don’t get hung up on the small stuff. When I first started going to the temple in Washington D.C. in 1969, one of the devotees told me that Srila Prabhupada had made a mistake when he chose the font for the first Japanese printed book, Teachings of Lord Chaitanya, because it was difficult to read. Did the ISKCON Press/BBT devotees ever again ask Prabhupada to choose the font? I don’t think so! 🙂
But that didn’t prevent me from moving into the Detroit temple a few months later! Srila Prabhupada saved me! If I had been hung up on some seeming discrepancy, then my life would have been ruined! The association of devotees is the only thing that can save us. Don’t criticize the moon because it has a few pockmarks! 🙂
These seeming discrepancies/contradictions are simply Krishna’s trick to keep those who lack sincerity/surrender from bothering Him! 🙂
These seeming discrepancies/contradictions are simply Krishna’s trick to keep those who lack sincerity/surrender from bothering Him!
I have heard that same thing. I wonder if Srila Prabhupada ever said that. I will check the books when I get the chance.
Hare Krsna,
Please accept my most humble obeisances.All glories to Srila Prabhupada.I am very much comforted by the kind and meaningful replies of Bhakta Mark Prabhu and Pratyosa das Prabhu.Yes, I think I must think along what Bhakta Mark has written now,and maybe my faith will strengthen..
As for myself,I study in Bhubaneswar,India and live in hostel….but my parents live in Mumbai. near to the Juhu temple,Hare Krsna land.I visit my parents during the holidays.In October 2012,I purchased the Macmillan edition of Bhagavad Gita As It Is(after fortunately coming across krishna.org)from the Juhu temple.(before that I used to read the changed Bhagavad Gita)I have read upto chapter 6.I have also read many of the small books written by Prabhupada.I have the 1st canto of Srimad Bhagavatam.I hope that after studying Bhagavad Gita and Srimad BHagavatam(1st canto), I can purchase the other sets of Bhagavatam and Caitanya Caritamrta….Can I purchase from the Juhu temple as well?I guess they must be having the unedited versions of Prabhupada’s books(though not in large quantity),since it is the main centre of the BBT. Please give me your opinion about my position and tell me whether my way of studying Prabhupada’s books is correct.
Hoping for a reply,
Your servant,
Santosh
Santosh Hare Krishna!
Caitanya Caritamrta – do NOT buy it has changed. The following downloads will give you ORIGINAL books:
http://krishna.org/srimad-bhagavatam-original-edition-pdf-download/
It will be good for you to HEAR Srila Prabhupada:
http://krishna.org/download-prabhupadas-1977-conversations/
This forum thread titled “What would motivate a disciple to claim that Srila Prabhupada never makes any mistakes?” might help our understanding of our relationship with Srila Prabhupada and his relationship with Krishna:
http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/browse_thread/thread/b0c002fffe422f17/83b772fb51bf0830
The thread begins as follows:
Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
To claim that Srila Prabhupada, doesn’t make any mistakes is the same as claiming that “Srila Prabhupada is God,” a virulent disease that infected ISKCON in August of 1970:
(Radha-Damodara Vilasa by Vaiyasaki dasa -Eleventh Wave – New Vrndaban Shakedown)
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
…, but there is much more. Please give it a read.