It is interesting to see how some leaders simultaneously propound and reject the philosophy of Prabhupada being present and alive through his vani. An article was recently posted by Parasuram das titled, “Philosophy of Narayana Maharaja Proven Misleading and False“. There Parasuram challenges against the “living guru” philosophy when it is being preached by a Narayana Maharaja follower. The Narayana Maharaja follower is accused of preaching that sabda-brahma can only be attained through a physically present guru. Parasuram gives some nice quotes and supports the opposite view that Srila Prabhupada is still living with us and present through his vani. Particularly interesting, he gives a quote where an initiation is conducted and devotees are initiated as Srila Prabhupada ‘s disciples through the use of a tape recording of Srila Prabhupada chanting Gayatri mantra.
I don’t know exactly where Parasuram stands on the whole issue, but generally I have seen where many ISKCON leaders will take one stand of upholding the truth of Srila Prabhupada ‘s presence through vani when it comes to countering Narayana Maharaja propaganda, and then at the same time preach the opposite, denying that Srila Prabhupada could still be the current initiating spiritual master. This type of preaching is another display of hypocrisy in the age of Kali yuga.
Narayana Maharaja preaches the same “living guru” philosophy which today’s ISKCON leaders have adopted from the Gaudiya Matha after the passing of Srila Prabhupada, and which Srila Prabhupada warned us about as having been erroneously conceived of after the passing of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati. This whole scenario of ISKCON having conflict with the Narayana Maharaja camp is just another product of this “living guru” philosophy. ISKCON has embraced a guru system which opens the door for all these problems. We want to preach that Srila Prabhupada is living when it’s convenient, and then reject it when it doesn’t comply with the status quo.
A material bodily conception is being imposed on the very definition of parampara and initiation itself, where it is being said that the parampara cannot continue and initiation is not possible without the initiating guru being physically present. Srila Prabhupada has taught, however, that disciplic succession and initiation mean simply the transference and application of spiritual knowledge. We all know that this is going on through Srila Prabhupada ‘s books, and that it is his murti’s and guru pujas which are being performed daily in all ISKCON temples. This will go on as long as this institution is called ISKCON. So to reject that Srila Prabhupada could be the current initiator, saying he is not physically present and then turn and challenge Narayana Maharaja followers that Srila Prabhupada is our guru, he is present with us through his vani, is certainly duplicitous.
Here is the excerpt from Parasuram’s article:
“Big Bhagavat Maharaja (sorry, I don’t know his new name) claims that Srila Prabhupada ‘s books, tapes, DVDs, (vani) cannot bring one to Vraj lila, as they are not sabda-brahma.
Here’s the concept:
“One has to hear. It is not that, “All right, tapes are there, I’ll hear the recorded tapes.” sabda-brahma will never descend. […] You should be greedy. Physical contact is required. You must hear directly, not just by listening to tapes. Sabda-brahma will never descend through a tape. One must hear from a physically present Sri Guru.”
(HH Gour Govinda Swami, ‘Q&A’, The Worship of Sri Guru, chapter 3)
Here’s the reality:
“The potency of transcendental sound is never minimised because the vibrator is apparently absent.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam, 2.9.8, purport) “You should have a fire sacrifice and the second initiates should hear through the right ear the mantra on my recorded tape.” “
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, November 13th, 1975)
Dear Maharaja, in the past, no doubt you loved Srila Prabhupada . My challenge for you is to stand face to face with Srila Prabhupada in his murti form and declare out loud that: “Your books cannot bring me to the highest platform of Vraj lila as they are not sabda-brahma – and Narayan Maharaj can take me there.”
I don’t believe you can do it! You said it to me – you know you can’t say it to Srila Prabhupada , because he is still here with us. “
I absolutely agree with Parasuram that Srila Prabhupada is still with us, and not knowing his overall position on this matter I’m not making any accusations towards him, however it would be interesting to know what his conclusion is on this side of the issue. There is quite sufficient information available to us to make an educated conclusion that Srila Prabhupada has intended to continue initiating his own disciples after his disappearance through his vani and through his disciples. It appears that Lord Krishna has set up a situation where Srila Prabhupada would be the Spiritual Master for the whole world, just as He setup to make Yudhisthira the king of the whole world. Srila Prabhupada should become renowned throughout the world just as Lord Jesus Christ. In the way that everyone in the world has heard of Jesus, it should similarly come about where every person has heard of Srila Prabhupada. Right now if you go out and ask a hundred people, how many will have heard of Srila Prabhupada? At least the majority have not. The only way this likely will happen is with Srila Prabhupada remaining as the current initiator for ISKCON.
The current system of preaching that Srila Prabhupada is not physically present and not the current initiator simply diminishes and diverts the real glorification of Srila Prabhupada, which is needed in order to bring about his widespread awareness. So long as we keep propagating this “living guru” or physical guru philosophy we will always have so many of these competitor “guru’s” competing with Srila Prabhupada by publishing their own Bhagavad Gita’s, giving new names to Prabhupada disciples, and so on. And rather than having a united family of Prabhupada disciples as there once was, there will always be so many groups cropping up following this “guru” and that “guru”.
After several more generations, the connection with Srila Prabhupada will become more and more obscured, with everyone bewildered in search of another new fashionable upstart “guru”. So long as ISKCON is ensnared in these debates over who is a bonafide guru and does not have a clear cut presentation of a pure devotee whom all the world can take shelter in and connect to directly as his initiated disciple, then the world at large will never become attracted to this movement, or at least there might never be a united following of bonafide disciples.
I think we all know that a disciple must accept only one initiating spiritual master. According to Srila Prabhupada ‘s definition, although there may be many instructing gurus, the initiator is the primary focus of one’s devotional service, the primary source of our knowledge, the one whom a disciple actually worships as good as God, and for that matter the one who should actually be an uttama adhikari, seeing and communicating directly with Lord Krishna.
“Actually, you have only one Spiritual Master, who initiates you, just as you have only one father. But every Vaisnava should be treated as prabhu, master, higher than me, and in this sense, if I learn from him, he may be regarded as guru. It is not that I disobey my real Spiritual Master and call someone else as Spiritual Master. That is wrong. It is only that I can call Spiritual Master someone who is teaching me purely what my initiating Spiritual Master has taught. Do you get the sense?
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, November 20, 1971)
Naturally, since a devotee must accept only one person as initiating guru, it would seem to make sense that the initiator guru should be the same for everyone in an institution. This is why the guru puja is going on daily in all ISKCON temples for Srila Prabhupada only. Some of us remember the days back in the 80’s and early 90’s in the temples when after Srila Prabhupada ‘s guru puja, a folding screen was put out to cover Srila Prabhupada and little tables were put out, each with a picture of some different “initiating” guru, and devotees each did their own little separate guru pujas for their “initiating” gurus. Those days are over now because all that kind of stuff was a concoction that was a fiasco. And grand worship of ISKCON “initiating” gurus has gradually been scaled down, and their positions and powers amended and redefined by the guru voting board. But still somehow the living guru philosophy and denial of Srila Prabhupada’s actual position continue to resound in ISKCON, (perhaps we should call it MISKCON, or the great MISKCONception), so much so that devotees who propound this Prabhupada philosophy are banished from the society, just as the Pandavas were banished from their kingdom.
Those of us who cannot admit that Srila Prabhupada is the one person who is the primary guru for everyone in ISKCON, are doing so because of some personal motivation. Some want the recognition and honor of being an exclusive Prabhupada disciple, one of the few…one of the chosen, some want the satisfaction of fame and followers, servants and contributions, and some just want to be part of the club, society, friends and facility to enjoy. Grandfather Bhisma was a great devotee, but he played the role of someone who took the wrong side because of his own personal interest of being maintained.
I am hoping that devotees come more together on this understanding of Srila Prabhupada’s position. Before signing off, I’d just like to recap a few points. Although most of us have heard the evidences, I’d just like to recap as briefly as possible. To this day there is no official statement where Srila Prabhupada gives authorization to the current ISKCON guru system. Although we may find a few earlier quotes where Prabhupada gives mention of his disciples someday initiating on their own, we find many latter statements giving a different idea. The many quotes where Prabhupada orders to become guru, when analyzed, are clear to be simply ordering to preach. [See Addendum]
Several times when Srila Prabhupada was asked about a successor, he did not state anything like, “My disciples will be my successors and initiate their own disciples”. He stated there was no need for a successor and sometimes referred to a zonal system being in place to carry on the movement. When we refer to the latest and most final statement on the matter, namely the May 28th 1977 Conversation and following July 9th Letter, we find more supporting evidences. The May 28th Conversation, although confusing for some because of the mention of “grand disciples” and “disciple of my disciple”, is concluded by Srila Prabhupada stating “When I order”. Such an order however is nowhere to be found. The July 9th Letter, which is the official follow-up to the entire society resulting from the May 28th Conversation, makes no mention of anyone becoming initiating gurus and accepting their own disciples. Furthermore, and adding more to the question of the actual authenticity of the May 28th recording, Tamal Krishna had made a recorded statement three years later confirming that Srila Prabhupada had never appointed these 11 as initiating gurus, and that he had only appointed them as ritviks, saying you cannot show otherwise in tape or writing. Here is the well known Quote:
Tamal Krishna: “Actually, Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He didn’t appoint eleven gurus. He appointed eleven ritviks. He never appointed them gurus. Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years (32 now) because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus. […]
The point I want to state on that is this realization, and I feel that the GBC body, if they don’t adopt this point very quickly, if they don’t realize this truth: You can’t show me anything on tape or in writing where Prabhupada says, “I appoint these 11 as gurus.” It doesn’t exist because he never appointed any gurus. This is a myth. Everyone is qualified to right now give initiation and you’ll see no blood and pus will fall out of the sky, no thunderbolt will strike you dead.”
(December 3, 1980 Topanga Canyon Pyramid House)
The question that follows: Tamal Krishna admits that Srila Prabhupada never appointed 11 successors, yet he goes on to promote the idea that Srila Prabhupada has authorized everyone to take the position of initiating guru. Now if this were so, then why do we have a May 28th recording where Srila Prabhupada, when asked specifically about initiations after his departure, speaks of appointing eleven persons? Why does Srila Prabhupada not say right then something to the effect that any of my disciples can go ahead and initiate if they are qualified? When did Srila Prabhupada ever say such a thing? It certainly is not stated in the July 9th Letter, the one and only official document on the matter which Srila Prabhupada ever issued. We all know the document appoints eleven disciples to initiate on his behalf, and it does not say that the system should end at any time, it just says that it should continue “henceforward”. So where is the authorization to have ended this system? And where in the first place did ISKCON leaders even get the idea from to have a zonal system which they carried on for 10 years?
Isn’t it obvious enough that Srila Prabhupada set-up this zonal system and never instructed for it to end? If he had instructed it to end after his departure, then why did ISKCON leaders have it going for 10 years after? If Srila Prabhupada, as today claimed to, had so clearly instructed his disciples that they would become his successors and initiate their own disciples after his departure, then why did they even have to question him about it on May 28th, and why did they subsequently have a zonal system for eleven years?
One might think that it should be obvious enough to most of us what Srila Prabhupada has intended, but here 32 years later, this issue is still a perplexity for most of us being baffled and ensnared by the onslaught of “living guru” propaganda. Perhaps if we keep chipping away at the stone by presenting the facts, then someday these clouds of illusion will disperse and Srila Prabhupada ‘s light will shine on all the world.
ADDENDUM
In 1972 Srila Prabhupada had already indicated his intention for a zonal system whereby initiations would be performed by his disciples. The following statements indicated his intention for that system to continue functioning after his disappearance.
“GBC means now they should tour very extensive. That is the first principle, the GBC. Not sit down one place and pass resolution. No, they must be active. They must act like me. As I am old man, I am traveling all over the world. Now to give me relief, the GBC members…I shall expand into twelve more so that they can exactly work like me. Gradually they will be initiators. At least first initiation. You must make advance. That is my motive. So, in that way I want to divide it in twelve zones. And we have to make more propaganda throughout the whole world. Now if you think that the world is so big, twelve members are insufficient, then you can increase more than that and make the zone similarly divided. It is world affair after all.”
(Conversation with GBC May 25, 1972 Los Angeles)
Note that since Srila Prabhupada is speaking here of zones and indicating a time extending over his physical presence, he is obviously referring to his disciples as “initiators” in the capacity of initiating on his behalf. On another occasion later, after he had already deputed certain disciples to perform initiations on his behalf within this zonal system, he spoke using similar terminology, referring to these representatives as “initiators”.
Prabhupada: “Hare Krsna. One Bengali gentleman has come from New York?
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Mr. Sukamal Roy Chowdury.
Prabhupada: So I have deputed some of you to initiate. Hm?
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Actually… Yes, Srila Prabhupada .
Prabhupada: So I think Jayapataka can do that if he likes. I have already deputed. Tell him.”
(October 18, 1977, Vrndavana)
It is an undisputed fact that Srila Prabhupada was the only initiator for ISKCON up until his disappearance, yet here he says that Jayapataka can “initiate” him. Although Srila Prabhupada is using this terminology, it is understood that Srila Prabhupada is actually giving diksa and his representative is performing the formal ceremony on his behalf as clearly outlined by the July 9th Letter:
“Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as “ritvik – representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation. […] The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative.”
(July 9th Letter to all Temple Presidents and GBC’s)
It is therefore consistent that Srila Prabhupada would refer to his representative for initiation as “initiators”(later to be called “officiating acaryas” or “ritviks”). Whether Srila Prabhupada was intending at that time in 1972 for these “initiators” to go on to initiate their own disciples after his departure should be examined in light of the following; Srila Prabhupada was questioned during news interviews in 1976 on three occasions about who will succeed him after his departure, and each time he spoke only of a committee of GBC zonal secretaries. He never spoke of any individual successors and does not say that his disciples would carry on the movement by initiating their own disciples. In fact, he even states that there is no need of a successor acarya (because the zonal committee, as his representative, he says, would manage the movement).
Reporter: “Is there anyone who is designated to succeed you as the primary teacher of the movement?
Prabhupada: I am training some, I mean to say, advanced students so that they may be very easily take up the charge. I have made them GBC. They are under my direct training, and I think they will be able to conduct this movement.
Reporter: Do you expect to name one person as your successor or have you already?
Prabhupada: That I am not contemplating now. But there is no need of one person. As other things are managed, but by committee, so this can also be managed, and the committee may elect one person as chief. As, just like in the democracy there are senators and there is president, so it may be I may nominate or they can nominate.”
(Interview, June 4, 1976)
Interviewer: “What happens when that inevitable time comes when a successor is needed?
Ramesvara: He is asking about the future, who will guide the movement in the future.
Prabhupada: They will guide. I am training them.
Interviewer: Will there be one spiritual leader, though?
Prabhupada: No, I am training GBC, eighteen all over the world.”
(Interview, June 10, 1976)
Interviewer: “I was wondering if he had a successor to do… Do you have a successor to take your place when you die?
Prabhupada: Not yet settled up. Not yet settled up.
Interviewer: So what process would the Hare Krsnas…?
Prabhupada: We have got secretaries. They are managing.
Ramesvara: He has appointed from all the disciples a group of secretaries. Each one is in charge of a different sector of the world.
Interviewer: How many secretaries?
Ramesvara: Presently there is eighteen.
Interviewer: And so that group of eighteen secretaries will choose another leader?
Prabhupada: I am training each one of them as leader so that they can spread extensively. That is my idea.”
(Interview with Newsweek July 14, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada is specifically questioned three times in late 1976 about whether he will have a successor, and on each occasion he refers to this zonal system to carry forth the movement after his disappearance. There is no specific mention here of disciples initiating their own disciples and becoming successor diksa gurus. We should note that it is late in 1976, and Srila Prabhupada is being specifically questioned by Newsweek, a major national news magazine, about what will happen after his disappearance and there Srila Prabhupada is openly referring to a zonal system, managed by “secretaries“, to carry forth the movement. We know that later in the July 9th Letter Srila Prabhupada appointed 11 of these GBC secretaries to the post of ritvik.
It is an undisputed fact that for ten years after Srila Prabhupada’s departure, a zonal system was in effect in ISKCON. This clearly indicates that Srila Prabhupada never gave an instruction for the zonal system to end after his disappearance. This is consistent with the fact that the July 9th Letter instructs for the zonal system to continue henceforward without any indication of it ending at any time. The zonal system, however, has been disregarded by ISKCON after having been improperly executed. The zonal system, of course, was setup to function only through the proper execution of ritvik initiators or “officiating acaryas”, as Srila Prabhupada called them.
(Posted by Madhavananda Prabhu, Jun 16 2009, USA)
If you listen to the December 3, 1980 Topanga Canyon Pyramid House recordings TKG does a very obvious, (and somewhat limp) spin attempt to try and justify why he can still have disciples even after just admitting what he did – that he was never authorized by his guru to have disciples!? If he were approachable and open to his ego being challenged it would have been fairly simple to defeat his illogical logic. But like most of the Iskcon leaders, he silenced everyone with fear. Unfortunately like many statements made by these big Iskcon men, the words came out of his mouth and have probably never been discussed, questioned, investigated, challenged or put to the Vedic truth test within the Iskcon camp by rank and file. How strange that more devotees, (especially Tamal’s disciples) haven’t spoken out about such an obvious contradictory and confusing statement. That parents worry my son or daughter will become a mindless robot or a sheep follower if they join the Hare Krishna Movement may have some legitimacy?
If Narayana Maharaja was the ‘master’ of anything, it was the ‘master of charisma, subtlety and deception’. It does not surprise me that by his very expert and calculating mannerisms, he managed to capture many devotees due to this bogus ‘sabda-brahma, living guru’ idea. For a few years, I myself was ‘snared into his web of deceit’, but as with any form of deception, however subtle there are always certain things that don’t add up and so you have trust your heart and instincts or one will always be cheated.
This has created ‘another dilemma’ for the members of the ‘Narayana camp’ especially the devotees who were initiated by Srila Prabhupada, because with the passing of Narayana Maharaja they are ONCE MORE DISCONNECTED due to the absence of ‘sabda bramha’. Bhaghavat Maharaja is now mounting much opposition to the scandalous situation (of misappropriation of funds) which has unfolded over the last fews years in relation to the Narayana Maharaja’s samhadhi project. Western devotees ‘wear their hearts on their sleeve’ but Indians are very ‘closeted and secretive’ and this is why Westerners are easily ‘taken in’ as many are too trusting.
The Indian leaders of Gaudiya Math (Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti) have a ‘corner shop’ mentality just wanting proprietorship of a Math so they can ‘pick the pockets’ of gullible westerners and do some business. They are envious of Srila Prabhupada and reject the fact that He is our only link to the Brahma Madhva Guaudiya Sampradaya.
Narayana Maharaja made a big show of his “relationship” with Srila Prabhupada, but this was all just to ‘snare’ the disciples of Srila Prabhupada into his web of deceit. There are many examples of Narayana Maharaja ‘bad-mouthing’ Srila Prabhupada and His acheivements, this shows that he was very much envious of Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada warned disciples MANY TIMES to avoid His godbrothers as they were envious of Him and His acheivements and that they had alterior motives. This ‘sabda brahma, living guru’ nonsense is a DIRECT MANIFESTATION OF ENVY (both within ISKCON and Gaudiya Math) of Srila Prabhupada’s Supeme Position as Acharya and direct link to our Guru Varga.
Srila Prabhupada’s true position is not recognised by the ‘corner shop cast brahmanas’ of the Gaudiya Math, this is why they can only create offence to His Divine Grace in the same way ISKCON does with their minimisation of Srila Prabhupada and their un-authorised ‘living guru’ bullshit.
The spirit soul does not require a gross or subtle body in order for it to function. For the spirit soul there is NO material impediment, NO barrier of time, proximity or distance, these things are all material. Those who endeavour to follow the instructions of Srila Prabhupada are HIS disciples (whether one is formally initiated or not) and will gain the attention of Srila Prabhupada, who will give us shelter and guidance as this is always His wish.
“He reasons ill, who says that Vaisnavas die, While thou art living still in sound, Vaisnavas die to live and in living try to spread the Holy Name around” ( His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur )
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Sudarsana Das Vanacari:The Indian leaders of Gaudiya Math (Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti) have a ‘corner shop’ mentality just wanting proprietorship of a Math so they can ‘pick the pockets’ of gullible westerners and do some business. They are envious of Srila Prabhupada and reject the fact that He is our only link to the Brahma Madhva Guaudiya Sampradaya.
Mahesh: Good point. Srila Prabhupada is our ONLY link to the Brahma Madhva Sampradaya being the PROMINENT acarya.
68-04-12. Letter: Dayananda
Regarding parampara system: THERE IS NOTHING TO WONDER FOR BIG GAPS. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYA, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.
Note: Western devotees were DUPED by the two MAIN Indian bogus gurus from the Gaudiya Math camp: Sridhara Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja. Srila Prabhupada however, made EVERY effort to expose these bogus Gaudiya Math folks. He also warned his disciples:
SPL Rupanuga, April 28, 1974.
THEREFORE WE MAY NOT COMMIT THE SAME MISTAKE IN OUR ISKCON CAMP. ACTUALLY AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOME ACARYA. SO IT IS BETTER NOT TO MIX WITH MY GODBROTHERS VERY INTIMATELY BECAUSE INSTEAD OF INSPIRING OUR STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES THEY MAY SOMETIMES POLLUTE THEM. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2260.htm
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Analysis of Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Rupanuga
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2250.htm
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Was Sridhara Maharaja a bonafide guru?
http://www.iskcontimes.com/was-sridhara-maharaja-bona-fide-guru
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Sridhara Maharaja – EXPOSED
http://iskcontimes.com/sridhara-maharaja-exposed
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Conditioned soul Sridhara Maharaja Vs Srila Prabhupada the Mahabhagavata
http://iskcontimes.com/conditioned-soul-sridhara-maharaja-vs-srila-prabhupada-mahabhagavata
Exposing Gaudiya Math Twister: Sankarshana dasa (Bhakta Suria)
http://iskcontimes.com/exposing-gaudiya-math-twister
Note: UNFORTUNATELY the western disciples disciples of Srila Prabhupada did NOT listen. They were eager ONLY for the MATERIAL gains of MONEY SCREWING AND SLAVERY MAKING.
Hence, began the deception. The BIGGEST BLUFF was that DIKSA is ONLY the CEREMONY FIRE SACRIFICE AND NAME GIVING–that connects one to Sampradaya. Bas!
NOBODY gave the emphasis on SVARUPA (constitutional position) IMPORTANT ELEMENT OF DIKSA. WHY? because the WHOLE CON GAME WAS BASED fire sacrifice CEREMONY some bananas, sesames seeds thrown in the fire BIG smoke and THAT’S it–INITIATIED.
What was NEEDED was wake-up call to address HOW and WHAT DIKSA ACTUALLY IS. If devotees can UNDERSTAND what Diksa IS——THEN the CON game is FINNISHED! Fire sacrifice Ceremony is only a PART of Diksa process.
Hence this paper gives the whole DETAILED ANALYSIS OF DIKSA to help others UNDERSTAND that Srila Prabhupada is OUR bonafide DIKSA guru for AS LONG AS HIS BOOKS ARE ON THIS PLANET:
Only Maha-Bhagavata is Diksa Guru
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422#more-41422
“A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. SURRENDER BY YOUR INTELLIGENCE BUT DON’T SURRENDER YOUR INTELLIGENCE.” (SP to Bali Mardana, 1974)
“We request you to chant HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE, and your life will be sublime.”
Even a quick glance at Narayan swami’s criticism of our Srila Prabhupada is enough to reveal his envy & deceit..
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/document-preview.aspx?doc_id=151127120 .
Also in the ITV interview with HG BV Puri Maharaj, he explains how Srila Prabhupada invited all his godbrothers to the Mayapur foundation ceremony, but Narayan swami (sorry, NOT a maharaja), refused to attend and made critical comments about Srila Prabhupada. Maybe he’s gone back to the Brahmajoti where I think he said we originated from??
Yhs, Bal.
Siman Balaram Prabhhu.
Yes! there are many examples in the ‘link’ of Narayan Swami which do not conform to proper Vaisnava conduct and contain statements that clearly are not consistent with either his own Gurudeva, Srila Prabhupada or the previous Acharyas. I accept the ‘general conclusion’ of the document although it is ‘compiled’ by personalities and conditioned souls who may have their own agendas laced with their own duplicitousness and personal ambition, so I will only refute the words of Narayan Swami by using the quotes of reliable sources.
Narayan Swami says …In Venu Gita Introduction
“Those who believe that only sadhakas who are completely free from all anarthas are eligible to hear the above-mentioned pastimes (of Krishna and the gopis), will neither become free from anarthas, nor obtain eligibility to hear even after millions of births…Then how can this greed be obtained?…Faithfully hearing the narations of Sri Krishnas’ pastimes, saturated with the rasa from the lips of rasika vaisnavas or by faithfully studying the literature related to the pastimes of Sri Krishna composed by them, this greed may be obtained. Besides this there is no other means”
This is completely refuted by Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja* (Narayan Swami’s Gurudeva and sannyas Guru of Srila Prabhupada. * His Life and Teachings Part 4 Page 343.
“One day a devotee was studying the commentaries on Rasa Lila, Brahmara-Gita and so-on and Srila Gurudeva ( Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur ) said ‘The qualification to hear topics of Rasa Lila will come when Sri-Nama-Kirtana has freed the heart from anarthas and Suddha- Sattva has appeared there’ ”
The statement of Narayana Swami is also ‘at odds’ with Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur’s statement in Prabhupada Patravali Chapter 1……
“There is no point in making a separate effort to artificially remember the Lord’s form, qualities and pastimes. The Lord and His name are one and the same. This will be understood clearly when the coverings in our hearts are removed. By chanting without offences you will personally realize, that all perfections come from the Holy Name”
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur also states quite clearly that RASA IS NOT PART OF SADHANA (emphasis mine) in Sri Chaitanya Siksamrta Ch 7. Part 1.
“Those who have not attained pure Rati and sense control, make futile attempts to become qualified for Rasa by practicing Rasa. That taste which arises naturally in a person on the level of Prem is called Rasa. The discussion of Rasa is only a description of how the various elements combine in the different Rasas; It is is not part of Sadhana. Therefore if anyone says that he will teach you the Sadhana of Rasa, he is an imposter or a fool”
While Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Maharaja Prabhupada, and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur are consistent in their conclusion Narayana Swami is saying something different altogether! …………………………Why is that?……………Think about it!
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Hare Krsna Sudarsana Prabhu,
Thanks for exposing Narayan swami as deviating from Guru-Sadhu-Sastra.
I agree completely when you state.. “I accept the ‘general conclusion’ of the document although it is ‘compiled’ by personalities and conditioned souls who may have their own agendas laced with their own duplicitousness and personal ambition,”
Bir Krsna swami amongst many others, loves the Aussie ‘milk-run’ where they regularly collect from the ‘gullibles’ to maintain the ‘career devotee lifestyle’. Even that low life ‘Burrows’ still comes to OZ & NZ to collect and the Greedy Boys Club turns a blind eye to it all!
However the research of actual quotes from Narayan swami has been accurately detailed, so I feel a good arrow we can keep in our quiver.
Yhs,
Balaram das.
Sorry about the spelling!…… Should have double-checked!
Hare Krishna
AGTSP, PAMHO.
The guru is initiating on behalf the institution, the institution is initiating on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, then the guru is initiating on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. A simple rule of three where A EQUAL B, B EQUAL C then C EQUAL A.
Daurasundara Das 83
What ”guru” (or gurus) are you referring to, here?, be specific.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: While Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Maharaja Prabhupada, and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur are consistent in their conclusion Narayana Swami is saying something different altogether! …………………………Why is that?……………Think about it!
Mahesh: This is because people like Narayan “Maharaja” and Sridhar “Swami” and the Gudiya math bogus Acaryas are CONDITIONED souls. They are NOT realized souls. ALL they were doing is PARROTING the Sanskrit verses of the sastra. They were talking thru their BRAIN BOX whereas Srila Prabhupada when he spoke the words they were coming FROM KRSNA when he moved his lips. Please read the difference:
760714iv.ny
Bali-mardana: In other words, when you decide that someone is to be in charge of a particular temple does Krsna tell you that this person should be in charge.
Interviewer: Or do you by judging him say this person is qualified.
Prabhupada: YES, BECAUSE A DEVOTEE ALWAYS CONSULTS KRSNA AND HE GIVES ORDER.
Interviewer: IT’S A MORE DIRECT COMMUNICATION.
Prabhupada: YES. AND HE GIVES ORDER.
Ramesvara: Because intelligence, our philosophy is that intelligence comes from Krsna. So if I have some…
Interviewer: And your philosophy is that your daily necessities come from Krsna as well.
Ramesvara: Yes, try to understand. Suppose my intelligence sees that this person is qualified, that means Krsna has told me.
Prabhupada: NO, NOT NECESSARILY, KRSNA WILL TELL DIRECTLY. A DEVOTEE ALWAYS CONSULTS KRSNA AND KRSNA TELLS HIM, “DO LIKE THIS.” NOT FIGURATIVELY.
Interviewer: Does that apply then to other kinds of decisions and other kinds of activities as well?
Prabhupada: EVERYTHING. BECAUSE A DEVOTEE DOES NOT DO ANYTHING WITHOUT CONSULTING KRSNA.
Note: His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada speaks as Krsna speaks.
Antya 5.71
One is forbidden to accept the guru, or spiritual master, as an ordinary human being (gurusu nara-matih). When Ramananda Raya spoke to Pradyumna Misra, Pradyumna Misra could understand that Ramananda Raya was not an ordinary human being. A SPIRITUALLY ADVANCED PERSON WHO ACTS WITH AUTHORITY, AS THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, SPEAKS AS THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD DICTATES FROM WITHIN. THUS IT IS NOT HE THAT IS PERSONALLY SPEAKING. WHEN A PURE DEVOTEE OR SPIRITUAL MASTER SPEAKS, WHAT HE SAYS SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS HAVING BEEN DIRECTLY SPOKEN BY THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD IN THE PARAMPARA SYSTEM.
Further details:
WE DON’T ALLOW ANY LITERATURE WHICH IS NOT GIVEN BY LIBERATED SOUL.
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41793#more-41793
Note: this is WHY Srila Prabhupada WARNED the devotees:
SPL Rupanuga, April 28, 1974
ACTUALLY AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOME ACARYA. SO IT IS BETTER NOT TO MIX WITH MY GODBROTHERS VERY INTIMATELY BECAUSE INSTEAD OF INSPIRING OUR STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES THEY MAY SOMETIMES POLLUTE THEM. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them.”
What happened was these ANTI RITVIK SLAVERY MAKING MONEY SCREWING BUNCH OF CROOKS BETRAYED Srila Prabhupada. They went to seek the “blessings”(licence of operation) from the deviant Sridhara Maharaja for running a HOAX CONDITIONED SOUL guru business voted in by bogus GBC. These DEMON OPPORTUNISTS rejected Srila Prabhupada’s BONAFIDE Ritvik System for their GREED:
760628bj.nv Conversations
Pusta Krsna: Some of them will say some things that Krsna says, but they’ll take from other places also. What is the position of such persons?
Prabhupada: He’s most dangerous. HE’S MOST DANGEROUS. HE IS OPPORTUNIST. HE’S FINDING OUT CUSTOMER, something here… According to the customer he is giving something, as the customers will be pleased. So he is not guru. He’s a servant. He wants to serve the so-called disciples so that he may be satisfied and pay him something. He’s servant. He’s not guru. Guru is the master. You cannot disobey guru. But if you become a servant, you want to please the disciple by flattering him to get his money, then you are not guru, you are servant. Just like a servant pleases the master. He’s not guru. He’s servant. So our position should be servant, yes, but servant of the Supreme. So guru means heavy. You cannot utilize him for satisfying your whims. That is not guru.
Note: Rejecting the BONAFIDE Ritvik system these demons make a SHOW OF RELIGION:
Bg 16.4 P The Divine And Demoniac Natures
In this verse, the royal road to hell is described. The DEMONIAC WANT TO MAKE A SHOW OF RELIGION AND ADVANCEMENT IN SPIRITUAL SCIENCE, ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES. THEY ARE ALWAYS ARROGANT or proud in possessing some type of education or so much wealth. THEY DESIRE TO BE WORSHIPED BY OTHERS, AND DEMAND RESPECTABILITY, ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT COMMAND RESPECT. Over trifles they become very angry and speak harshly, not gently. They do not know what should be done and what should not be done. THEY DO EVERYTHING WHIMSICALLY, ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN DESIRE, AND THEY DO NOT RECOGNIZE ANY AUTHORITY.
Note: the ANTI RITVIK DEMONS DESTINATION:
Iso 12
The Lord states that as soon as one reaches Him by devotional service–which is the one and only way to approach the Personality of Godhead–one attains complete freedom from the bondage of birth and death. In other words, the path of salvation from the material clutches fully depends on the principles of knowledge and detachment gained from serving the Lord. THE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS HAVE NEITHER KNOWLEDGE NOR DETACHMENT FROM MATERIAL AFFAIRS, FOR MOST OF THEM WANT TO LIVE IN THE GOLDEN SHACKLES OF MATERIAL BONDAGE UNDER THE SHADOW OF PHILANTHROPIC ACTIVITIES DISGUISED AS RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES. BY A FALSE DISPLAY OF RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS, THEY PRESENT A SHOW OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE WHILE INDULGING IN ALL SORTS OF IMMORAL ACTIVITIES. IN THIS WAY THEY PASS AS SPIRITUAL MASTERS AND DEVOTEES OF GOD. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. THEY IGNORE THE VEDIC INJUNCTION ACARYOPASANA–“ONE MUST WORSHIP THE ACARYA”–AND KRSNA’S STATEMENT IN THE BHAGAVAD-GITA (4.2) EVAM PARAMPARA-PRAPTAM, “THIS SUPREME SCIENCE OF GOD IS RECEIVED THROUGH THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION.” INSTEAD, TO MISLEAD THE PEOPLE IN GENERAL THEY THEMSELVES BECOME SO-CALLED ACARYAS, BUT THEY DO NOT EVEN FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES OF THE ACARYAS.
These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20). SRI ISOPANISAD CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION.
Note: Anti Ritvik DEMONS AND THEIR FOLLOWERS destination:
SB 6.7.14 Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati.
A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. SIMILARLY, THOSE WHO MISLEAD PEOPLE GO TO HELL, AND THEIR FOLLOWERS GO WITH THEM.
WHY did they leave Srila Prabhupada’s BONAFIDE RITVIK system? BECAUSE the CROOKS wanted “guruship licence” in order to be RECOGNISED. So they went to the DEVIANT Sridhara Maharaja who DISOBEYED Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura (his Guru):
SPL Rupanuga, April 28, 1974.
HE NEVER RECOMMENDED ANYONE TO BE ACARYA OF THE GAUDIYA MATH. BUT SRIDHARA MAHARAJA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DISOBEYING THIS ORDER OF GURU MAHARAJA, AND HE AND OTHERS WHO ARE ALREADY DEAD UNNECESSARILY THOUGHT THAT THERE MUST BE ONE ACARYA.
1) How can a DEVIANT who has DISOBEYED his Guru be a GURU? Does it make ANY SENSE? This is WHY Sridhar Maharaja was NOT a Guru he was a CONDITIONED SOUL.
2) Because the ANTI RITVIK CROOKS wanted POWER, MONEY, PROPERTIES DISCIPLES(FREE SLAVES) they went to the DEVIANT SRIDHAR MAHARAJA for getting that GURUSHIP LICENCE to operate in ISKCON under Sridhar Maharaja’s “blessings”.
3) The CHEATERS who felt that the Sridhar “Maharaja” door was closed went to Narayan “Maharaja”. WHY? —- for GURUSHIP LICENCE. Same disease: POWER,MONEY,WORSHIP, DISCIPLES, PROPERTIES.
Srila Prabhupada many times points out THE CHEATERS AND THE CHEATED. So what is happening is Krsna is giving them some material TOYS to play with but NOT Srila Prabhupada the BONAFIDE Diksa GURU.
Note: Krsna is not a fool He gives IN PROPORTION to the surrender: “I reward him ACCORDINGLY.”
SB 6.9.37 P Appearance of the Demon Vrtrasura
In Bhagavad-gita (4.11) the Lord says, ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham: “As one surrenders unto Me, I reward him accordingly.”
And come death—- the CARCASS of the CONDITIONED SOUL BOGUS GURU is pickled in salt so called “samadhi” by the followers— BUT —- Yamadutas DRAG that soul to hell for punishment.
Some interesting features of the Anti Ritvik bogus Guru Club:
What was happening was that AFTER setting up their OWN camp with license(“blessings”) from the DEVIANT Sridhar Maharaja the bogus GBC factory produced their rubber-stamped version “voted in gurus”. This became a CLOSED SHOP. NOW it was THEY who decided who could be diksa guru and who could not. They also decided on Sannyasa franchise business.
This means people like Tripurari etc could not enter to get the their guruship license from the old boys club. So Tripurari had to go shopping —– –and he went to Sridhar Maharaja – yes! for getting “blessing” guruship license of operating as a “diksa” guru:
http://krishna1008.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/tripurari-swamis-guru-tradition.html
Srila Prabhupada gave them a BIG chance for Goloka but these people wanted to EXPLOIT by TRICKERY to find some slaves(disciples) who worship them and maintain their lives of luxury.
We PRABHUPADANUGAS have TOTALLY DEFEATED the ANTI RITVIK camp SIMPLY BY QUOTING Srila Prabhupada:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422#more-41422
We say to these folks— it is still not too late. COME BACK TO SRILA PRABHUPADA:
1) Accept the Ritvik System with Srila Prabhupada as the ONLY Diksa guru for ISKCON.
2) Accept the Direction of Management (1970)
3) Accept the Original UNCHANGED Srila Prabhupada books
Simply if they accept these THREE points we can WORK OUT -TOGETHER- a COOPERATIVE solution for ALL of us in a PRABHUPADA way. ALL this HERE in an OPEN FORUM NOT SECRETLY BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. Will they accept?
“We request you to chant HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE, and your life will be sublime.”
In a letter written in 1970 Srila Prabhupada wrote the following:
“I thank you very much and all the devotees for offering me a garland daily as you were doing when I was physically present. If a disciple is constantly engaged in carrying out the instructions of the Spiritual Master he is supposed to be constantly in company with his Spiritual Master. This is called Vaniseva. So there are two kinds of service to the Spiritual Master One is called vaniseva and the other is called vapuseva. Vaniseva means as above mentioned, executing the instructions, and vapuseva means physically or personally rendering service. So in the absence of physical presentation of the Spiritual Master the vaniseva is more important. My Spiritual Master, Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura, may appear to be physically not present, but still because I try to serve His instruction I never feel separated from Him. I expect that all of you should follow these instructions.”
The words in that letter offer us guidance and solace and so also these:
“People with a poor fund of knowledge do not know the difference between the death of a devotee and the death of a nondevotee. In this connection, an example can be given: a cat carries its kittens in its mouth, and it also catches a rat in its mouth. Superficially, the catching of the rat and the kitten appear to be one and the same, but actually they are not. When the cat catches the rat in its mouth it means death for the rat, whereas when the cat catches the kitten, the kitten enjoys it.”
All glories to our eternal spiritual master, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
The smartha tradition of diksa sampradaya can not be accepted, since the Padma Purana say: “Kalau sudra sambhavam” In Kali yuga everyone is disqualified for deity worship. It is not that by being initiated I can become a successor spiritual master. Only the vaishnava siksa sampradaya (by instruction) of the Bhagávata or Pancharatrika vidhi is recognized by authorities. Someone who has seen the truth can be recognized by an acharya not by anyone else.
Srila Prabhupada says that “A Guru can become Guru only when ordained by his Guru.”
“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is AUTHORIZED BY HIS PREDECESSOR SPIRITUAL MASTER. This is called diksa vidhana.” (Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54, purport)
“Self-made guru cannot be guru. HE MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE BONA FIDE
GURU. Then he’s guru. This is the fact… Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru.” (Srila Prabhupāda Lecture on Nectar of Devotion, October 31. 1972)
“Guru cannot be self-made. No. There is NO such single instance throughout the whole vedic literature. And nowadays, so many rascals they are becoming guru without any authority. That is NOT guru. You MUST be authorized!” [Bg. 4.2 P.]
Brahmananda: He’s asking when did you become the spiritual leader of Krsna consciousness?
Prabhupāda: When my Guru Maharaja ordered me. This is the guru-parampara.
Indian: Did it…
Prabhupāda: Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he’s ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru. When my Guru Maharaja ordered me. This is the guru-parampara.” (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
Reporter: “Is there anyone who is designated to succeed you as the primary teacher of the movement?” Prabhupada: “I am training some, I mean to say, advanced students so that they may very easily take up the charge. I have made them GBC. They are under my direct training, and I think they will be able to conduct this movement.” Reporter: “Do you expect to name one person as your successor or have you already?” Prabhupada: That I am not contemplating now. But there is no need of one person.” (Int. 6/4/76
Excellent comments Prabhu,
Many thanks.
Ys, balaram das.
pamho agtACBSP,
to become a eternal associate of SRILA PRABHUPADA means to meditate constantly on HIS divine vani seva which is still alive and will be spread in this pious planet for another 9.500 years of golden SRI HARINAM SANKIRTAN age and by keeping to follow the powerful instructions of SRILA PRABHUPADA we will be transfer from the deadly platform to the alive platform because we are all dead at the present moment this means to not be dead by associating constantly with people who are eternally alive like SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU and HIS eternal associates they are still teaching us the real way how things should be through THEIR perfect examples in vapu seva when THEY were physically present on this planet and in vani seva too
through the great chanting of liberation of the maha mantra hare krsna we will get that rare fourth dimension beyond the three guna of the materiakl nature by stopping to sin once for all and staring to live the rel life completely free from lust and greed to be able to go everywhere without getting trapped,
all the saintly people who became eternal by getting mukti liberation through the bonafide parampara system got the saguna form perfection first when they were physically present on this planet like SRILA PRABHUPADA and HIS vani seva is the way to connect our present guna and karma with the spiritual guna and akarma constantly to be able to connect the own sambandha jnana eternal relationship with SRI SRI GURU GAURANGA ,
we worship SRILA PRABHUPADA deity in saguna form because that saguna form is the sum total of all the saguna forms including that of all the demigods that’s why SRI GAURANGA MAHAPRABHU say never disrespect a acharya by taking him for a ordinary person as all the kanistha adikari devotees including all the guru hoaxers are doing by trying to take the transcendental position of our guru maharaj without any qualification and vaisnava history in our brahma gaudiya sampradaya ,the ordinary living entity ask to SRI KRSNA tocome in this material world to become the HIS enemy but the guru is senting by SRI KRSNA as a pukka servant
agtSP
ys haribol
“Only when a house burns can you see all the misery that was inside. Then, even the king finds out that he has lived with the rats.” Hebbel, Friedrich German playwright.