May 28, 1977 Alternate Analysis | by Hrishikesh dasa

An Alternate Analysis: Prabhupada’s May 28th
Conversation and July 9th Letter (1977)

Copyright © 2015 by Henry Doktorski, III

— Re-post 23-09-2015, link updated with most recent PDF Version—

FULL TEXT (new PDF): http://www.iskcon-truth.com/pdf/Alternate_Analysis_May_28th_1977.pdf

(old PDF: version posted 16-09-2015 )

 

Introduction

What is the value of yet another examination of Srila Prabhupada’s May 28th conversation with members of the GBC and July 9th letter authorizing eleven men to initiate as ritvik priests? Hasn’t this already been analyzed to death? After nearly four decades, haven’t Prabhupada’s instructions been clearly understood and implemented? I’m not convinced that they have.  This is important because if the instructions of the spiritual master are not correctly interpreted and followed then the entire sampradaya will veer off course and become asara, or useless. Prabhupada explained, “Persons who strictly follow the orders of the spiritual master are useful in executing the will of the Supreme, whereas persons who deviate from the strict order of the spiritual master are useless [asara].”  (1)  I first heard about this famous conversation and letter—in which Prabhupada allegedly appointed eleven advanced disciples to succeed him—in 1978 when I joined ISKCON and began serving Prabhupada’s mission as a disciple of one of the zonal acaryas. I learned more about this conversation and letter in 1983, when Satsvarupa dasa Goswami’s Srila Prabhupada- lilamrta, Volume 6: Uniting Two Worlds was published.
At that time I accepted Satsvarupa’s conclusion that these two documents were a “clear and conclusive” appointment of eleven men to “become gurus and accept disciples of their own.”

 

Recently, however, I have had the good fortune to become acquainted with a devotee who lived in Vrindaban, India during the summer of 1977 when Srila Prabhupada was making arrangements for the future of ISKCON in preparation for his inevitable passage from this world. This person is Yasodanandan dasa, who, at that time 38 years ago, served as headmaster at the Vrindaban gurukula. He shared with me many entries in his 1977 diary that described important conversations with Prabhupada and leading GBC members about the future of ISKCON. While what he shared with me is not new information (it was published as early as 1989 in Vedic Village Review ), it was new to me. I was surprised (but also not surprised, considering the disastrous history of the zonal acarya era in ISKCON) that his recounting of events contradicted Satsvarupa’s version.  Yasodanandan’s eye-witness accounts were extremely revealing, and after conducting further investigation, I compiled my research into this essay which I humbly submit to the worldwide community of Vaisnavas who follow in the disciplic succession continuing from His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 

—The author (September 5, 2015: Krsna Janmastami)

 

From rags to riches

Abhay Caranaravinda Bhaktivedanta Swami (1896-1977), a former manager for a Calcutta chemical factory who had a profound religious fervor for his Gaudiya-Vaisnava faith, left his Indian fatherland on an ocean freighter in August 1965, shortly before his 69 th birthday. After a month-long sea voyage, he arrived in New York City with a suitcase, a crate of his books (three volumes of the hardcover Srimad-bhagavatam and the paperback Easy Journey to Other Planets ), a three-tiered brass cooker, a pair of kartals (small bell-metal cymbals) and forty rupees (worth at the time about seven U. S. dollars).

 

Abhay Caranaravinda Bhaktivedanta Swami (1896-1977), a former manager for a Calcutta chemical factory who had a profound religious fervor for his Gaudiya-Vaisnava faith, left his Indian fatherland on an ocean freighter in August 1965, shortly before his 69 th birthday. After a month-long sea voyage, he arrived in New York City with a suitcase, a crate of his books (three volumes of the hardcover Srimad-bhagavatam and the paperback Easy Journey to Other Planets ), a three-tiered brass cooker, a pair of kartals (small bell-metal cymbals) and forty rupees (worth at the time about seven U. S. dollars).
The short, charismatic man (five-feet five-inches tall, but filled with life and energy and love for his Lord) came to America solely on a solo missionary expedition to spread the Gospel of Lord Caitanya (1486–1534)—the Medieval scholar, saint and mystic who is regarded by his followers not as an ordinary mortal man but as an incarnation of the Supreme Godhead. Three decades earlier Bhaktivedanta Swami’s spiritual master, His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada (1874-1937), knowing his disciple Abhay Caranaravinda to be an educated man who spoke English, had requested him to preach to the English-speaking people.

After nine months in the United States with little success, Bhaktivedanta Swami unexpectedly found a promising source of enthusiastic converts. Word spread among young hippies and seekers of spiritual truth that an Indian Swami had come with a “far out” yoga method: chanting Hare Krsna. His mission expanded and in June 1966 Bhaktivedanta Swami rented a tiny storefront on Second Avenue in the Lower East Side of Manhattan and incorporated the International Society for Krsna Consciousness, Inc.

After twelve years of preaching in the West, Bhaktivedanta Swami (venerated by his disciples with the honorable title “Srila Prabhupada” beginning in December 1967) achieved remarkable success: a worldwide preaching mission with thousands of initiated disciples and many more thousands of followers and supporters. When he passed away on November 14, 1977, he had initiated several thousand disciples (one reliable source claims 4,734), established more than one hundred temples and agricultural communities in dozens of countries, and written and published sixty volumes of translations of and commentaries on Sanskrit and Bengali sastra (scriptures).

The institution he founded was also a financial success. By 1977, ISKCON had collected hundreds of millions of dollars through lucrative fundraising, book selling and business  ventures. With the profits, they printed hundreds of thousands of Prabhupada’s books, purchased luxurious mansions, historic churches, thousands of acres of land, and in India constructed imposing marble temples and guest houses for pilgrims—all for the glory of Krsna.

In India, most gurus maintain one or two humble ashrams where their disciples (perhaps numbering a few dozen—at most a hundred) live and study. These disciples have personal association with their spiritual master and get to see him and hear him speak frequently. But ISKCON grew so rapidly in North and South America, Europe, Asia and Australia that Prabhupada could not maintain intimate relationships with all of his disciples; he had to delegate responsibilities to his senior disciples in order to keep his growing mission functioning.

As a service to his disciples, Prabhupada’s lectures and conversations were recorded on magnetic tape, copied and distributed to his many centers around the world so his disciples could become transcendentally enlivened through his lectures and conversations. He stressed that his words were more important than his physical presence. “We should take advantage of the vani [the words], not the physical presence [vapu] [of the spiritual master],” Prabhupada instructed, “because the vani continues to exist eternally.”

 

Prabhupada creates the GBC

In 1970, four years after incorporating ISKCON, Prabhupada created a committee within ISKCON—the Governing Body Commission (or GBC)—and began training his senior disciples to take over the management of his society. Eventually, he hoped to retire from management completely and have the GBC become the “ultimate managing authority” in ISKCON, so he could complete his translation of and commentary on Srimad- bhagavatam without disturbance. Prabhupada also expected that members of the GBC, when fully trained, would also take over the duty of initiating new disciples after his death. Hamsadutta Swami (Hans Kary), 4 a senior disciple who was appointed to the original GBC in 1970, recalled, “He [Prabhupada] told me personally, ‘I am training you to be guru. I am training you to be perfect, so that in my absence [after my death] things will go on.’”

More (FULL TEXT): http://www.iskcon-truth.com/pdf/Alternate_Analysis_May_28th_1977.pdf

 

Comments

  1. Ritvik Essay. IF BASE IS WRONG , ALL IS WRONG

    Hare Krsna dear prabhu, pamho agt Srila Prabhupada

    Thank you so much for taking the time and energy to write about Srila Prabhuapadas order and desire for future initiations….

    I am still reading it now but a first question already jumped out at me which if right changes the whole argument.

    Whenever prabhupada was asked about a future successor, he never said the obvious if that was his plan…..he should have simply said: I will name the next acarya…..or I will appoint the next Diksha guru or Diksha guruS.

    but such a sentence was never ever stated…..why?

    There must be a strong reason? …..and we know how Srila Prabhupada chose his every single word with transcendental precision to give the exact meaning and implication.

    So for me, it is clear that Srila Prabhupada ( while hoping a shining pure devotee would be sent by Lord Krsna) knew all a long that none of his disciples would become Diksha gurus. But he also new of our motives and desires to become gurus and be admired or even worshipped so he had to transcendentally cheat us as always by keeping us thinking and believing that one day we would also become worshipped gurus like him. In this way Srila Prabhupada had to keep the carrot hanging in front of us for us to keep serving and pushing forward while at the same time not disclosing the fact that we would never be appointed Diksha gurus because he knew that such a realization would or could deflate our enthusiasm to serve on.

    Even when asked directly :

    Satsvarūpa: ……… Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.

    Prabhupāda: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating ācāryas.

    Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that called ṛtvik-ācārya?

    Prabhupāda: Ṛtvik, yes.

    If iskcon’s current understanding is to be accepted as the correct desire of Srila Prabhupada, then surely the simple clear answer would have been:

    I shall recommend one of you to be THE NEXT DIKSHA GURU or some of you to be diksha guruS

    bas! leaving no room for interpretation or speculation……but as time has shown us: such is the deep and intense desire of the conditioned soul to be worshipped that whatever needs to be done to achieve this end will be done even at the so called death of ones own spiritual master.

    PURI MAHARAJ INTERVIEW:

    Here when ( 1977 vrindavan final days) Prabhupada was lying, I said, “Mahārāja, you should survive 10 more years.” “How can I survive? You see my pulse.“ I saw pulse was not beating. “Then how can you say that I must stay 10 years? I cannot stay 10 years.” Unless you ( Prabhupada ) stay there will be no peace and unity among these Westerners. They are very strong heads. They won’t unite. After your demise, the institution will be nowhere. At least you must put them in line. They should have some tradition. In India there is some tradition. But in western countries no tradition. Then he said, “What to do? Everything Kṛṣṇa’s will. And he passed away. Previous to that on occasion I asked, “Mahārāja you have established 11 gurus. There is no harmony. This can be no harmony. Guru must be one. You have selected 11 gurus.” He said, “I have not selected. I have appointed 11 ritviks.” I said, ritviks, as long as you survive, they are ritviks. After your demise they are gurus.“ And unless guru blesses a disciple to sit on the throne and continue this service, he cannot survive. He cannot sit then. He must go down. And that sure it is happening now. Then he said, “What shall I do now? What shall I do now?” Once he introduced that all the temples, centres, the president’s must be tyāgīs, sannyāsīs, not gṛhastas. Then all the gṛhastas, those who were dominating, they offered the resignation. Then he said, “It is a headache to me.” He only propose it. That it is better. So.. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, he made that proposal and put before Prabhupāda. All the president’s came to know and they said that, “We resign.” Then he stopped discussion. So it was not under his control in the last moment.

    Puri Maharaja confirms Srila Prabhupada’s Ritvik order
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oETO0KzbRk

    The above also shows the source and facilitation of the appointed ritviks becoming gurus.

    Srila Prabhupada answered the question: ”particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us”

    with the ritvik appointment to go onto the future but puri maharaj aswell as the traditionalists could not, did not and still do not accept it as an order to continue into the future even thou the question’s time reference was very clearly. So after prabhupada left our vision, these 11 ritviks headed by Tamala gosvami took and accepted the perverted understanding of prabhuapada’s order from prabhupada’s godbrothers as it supported their materially motivated desires rather than accept the written and signed order of our Acarya, Srila Prabhupada, July 9th order:

    Now that Srila Prabhupad has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupad by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupad has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupad, to be included in His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.

    please note: main point:

    1.Prabhupada is the initiator!
    2.The Ritviks approve and act as check points representing Srila Prabhupada. They may never know these newly initiates or see them, that relationship rests more fully on the TP.
    3.The TP performs the yajna in his temple ( or arranges for the yajna to be done by a qualified brahmana.

    So the whole process may involve 4 people, Prabhupada, the new disciple, the TP and the Ritvik.

    or 5 people: Prabhupada, the new disciple, the TP, the Brahmana to perform the yagna and the Ritvik.

    In some exceptional situation the TP, the Ritvik & the performer of the yajna may all be the same person. so such a case, only 3 poeple are involved: Prabhupada, TP ( or preacher ) and the new disciple. However such a situation which be avoided for the following reason:

    Srila Prabhupada knows very well that the stronger the connection or dependence is between himself and the new disicple the more chance the new disciple will have of being pulled out of the ocean of attachments and suffering. This is why it is a transcendental arrangement of Prabhupada that the new disicple does not have the ritvik sitting in front of him at the yagna as the immature innocent sentimental new disciple may begin or continue to see the ritvik as his guru.

    Any leaning from the new disicple towards seeing the Brahmana, TP or indeed the Ritvik as their gurudeva must be redirected towards the lotus feet and lotus instructions of their actual gurudeva, Srila Prabhupada. This point can not be stressed enough. It is in indeed the most dangerous point that those in iskcon and outside are struggling with. It is the biggest obestacle that we must overcome to reach the Lotus service of Sri Sri Radha Krishna.

    You stated:……“The fall down of a Ritvik will naturally cause a disturbance in the minds of the new initiates who received guidance and counsel from the ritvik acarya who had fallen away…”

    But all disciples of Srila Prabhupada in his iskcon movement should be getting guidance and council from Prabhupada in book or audio or video form and everyone else in iskcon be he TP, Ritvik or pot cleaner should try to be the disciples best friend by encouraging them and facilitating the desire to associate with Srila Prabhupada in his Vani form more and more. If you read the July 9th signed order, you will see the ritvik may not have a relationship with the new disciple at all….’’WHOEVER IS NEAREST’’…..

    The actual key relationship is between TP and New disciple, then the ritvik must have enough of a relationship with the TP to trust he is nicely positioned and is loyal to Srila Prabhupada, so basically the ritvik will think….yes, I know bla bla TP, I know he is following Srila Prabhupada nicely so if he recommends this new disciple for initiation, Prabhupada accepts.

    This is the ritviks responsibility…..to know the TP or Preacher well enough and represent Srila Prabhupada by accepting to give a spiritual name and or Gayatri thread as Srila Prabhupada does.

    When Prabhupada was physically manifest here, he simply accepted all reccomendations from TPs or Preachers in the field without even ever meeting most of these new disciples. Thus the ritvik must do the same. Prabhupada did not appoint Ritviks to act in all scopes of guruship. Again if you read the July 9th letter carefully, you can see Srila Prabhupada outlined very clearly the scope or duties as ritviks:

    1.Consider the recommendations. 2. Accept or Reject. 3. Choose a spiritual name. 4. chant on the Gayatri thread. 5. Arrange for newly initiated disciple’s names to be added to Srila Prabhupada’s disciple book.

    As far as the initiation process is concerned, that’s it. The appointed ritvik must perform the above 5 functions sincerely on behalf of Srila Prabhupada for the continued smooth efficient running of Srila Prabhupada’s International movement for Krishna Consciouness.

    Hare Krsna

    All glories to Srila Prabhupada

    Ys Balarama das

    http://harekrishnaturkey.wordpress.com

    • Rsi Kumar dasa says:

      Balarama please accept my dandavats,your presentation here is par excellent –yes Srila Prabhupada knew the future ,he knew ahead of time and he accepted everything had Krishna will -plan ,he therefore accepted joyfully.He had to have carrot dangling in front of them,therefore he used many tactics to keep the devotees going ,keep printing more and more books.Well Balarama ji ,Jai ho
      ys
      Rsi Kumar dasa dasa anu dasa

    • Hare Krishna, Balarama Prabhu,

      Thank you for your post – very intelligent and perceptive on your part.

      One thing that I’m not so sure about is this statement:

      “But he also new of our motives and desires to become gurus and be admired or even worshipped so he had to transcendentally cheat us as always by keeping us thinking and believing that one day we would also become worshipped gurus like him. In this way Srila Prabhupada had to keep the carrot hanging in front of us for us to keep serving and pushing forward while at the same time not disclosing the fact that we would never be appointed Diksha gurus because he knew that such a realization would or could deflate our enthusiasm to serve on.”

      Srila Prabhupada was always preaching pure, unalloyed devotional service. I never heard him – or of him – dangling a material carrot in front of his disciples’ eyes. He warned Bhavananda (and Tamal) that diligence and expert management had to be applied to prevent persons from jumping over the real guru, Srila Prabhupada, and trying to become gurus themselves before the training is complete. To the best of my knowledge, he never tempted them with the idea of becoming a guru. He nixed that idea constantly with references to his godbrothers’ failed attempts, etc.

      Your knowledge and experience are much deeper, I’m sure, so maybe you’re just expressing a different perspective on the issue. I do however hesitate to put words or intentions into Prabhupada’s mouth or behavior which aren’t there. He encouraged devotees to become pure devotees first, and then maybe they could think about becoming gurus – but then only for the pleasure and service of the Lord and the disciplic succession when they are ordered to do so. The guru in Prabhupada’s teachings was never a material position in any way, shape or form.

      That’s my understanding, but please correct me if I’m wrong.

      • Balaram das says:

        Dear LW prabhu,

        Yes I agree. We have to accept Srila Prabhupada’s words and instructions ‘as they are’, without speculation or interpretation. That has been the problem, even when His Divine Grace was personally with us, culminating with the 9th July Order…. oh he must have ‘meant’ this or ‘meant’ that!

        We can’t speculate or know the mind of the uttama-adhikari.

        He gave a direct and emphatic reply to SDG’s ‘In the future’ question.. Ritvik-yes, but TKG and those ready to jump would not accept that direct answer as their life and soul and continued to ‘cross examine’ Prabhupada to get an answer that would confirm their ambitious take over plans.

        I also don’t agree with the comment that ” In this way Srila Prabhupada had to keep the carrot hanging in front of us for us to keep serving and pushing forward while at the same time not disclosing the fact that we would never be appointed Diksha gurus because he knew that such a realization would or could DEFLATE OUR ENTHUSIASM TO SERVE ON”.

        I was privileged to be able to serve Srila Prabhupada and his disciples as Temple President during his manifest time with us, and there was no question of needing anything to ‘enthuse’ us, save and except the vani & vapu of His Divine Grace.

        Mayadevi, as a servant of Krsna, is a far bigger cheater than the cheating bugs that have tried to bite the transcendental body of Srila Prabhupada.

        Yhs,
        Balaram das ..Australia
        (not the author of the comment in question)

        • Dear Balarama Prabhu,

          Thanks for your reply. Sorry, I thought that statement was yours because there were no quotation marks. I only read some of Hrsikesa’s article due to the time factor. If it is indeed from him, then I’m afraid he’s mistaken, as you nicely point out.

          Your statement about the “cheating bugs” is right on. A long time ago, I picked up a Time Magazine and there was a short piece inside which read, “Trouble in Nirvana.” It went on to describe how His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was blasting Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Prabhupada was quoted as saying that if the Maharishi thinks he can cheat Krishna, then he’ll soon discover that Krishna can be the greatest cheater of all.

          Yes, these tiny wannabe demons (cheating bugs) will soon be vanquished. Srila Prabhupada can never be defeated. Krishna will see to that.

          It’s all so very simple, but they try to complicate everything to obscure the truth. But the truth always prevails.

          “Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance, and of the existent there is no cessation. This seers have concluded by studying the nature of both.” (B.G. 2.16)

          As Prabhupada said, “My success is always there.”

          All glories to His Divine Grace.

          • Mahesh Raja says:

            LW:Yes, these tiny wannabe demons (cheating bugs) will soon be vanquished. Srila Prabhupada can never be defeated. Krishna will see to that.

            Mahesh: Krsna give the INTELLIGENCE for these Anti Ritvik DEMONS Crooks to do WRONG so that MAYA the material energy gives them lower forms of life as PUNISHMENT:

            730715BG.LON Lectures
            SO THE ATHEIST CLASS, DEMON CLASS, THEY WANT TO FORGET KRSNA. SO KRSNA GIVES HIM SUCH INTELLIGENCE THAT HE CAN SPEAK OF ATHEISM SO MANY VOLUMES. BUT HE IS GETTING THAT INTELLIGENCE FROM KRSNA. KRSNA GIVES EVERYONE THE CHANCE THAT “WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO, YOU CAN DO. I WILL GIVE YOU INTELLIGENCE. So if you want to become atheist, then I will give you intelligence how to become first-class atheist, like Hiranyakasipu, Ravana, Kamsa. And if you want to become devotee, then I will give you intelligence also in that way.” Buddhi-yogam dadami tam yena mam upayanti te. Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam. Anyone who is engaged in His service with love and affection, tesam, not all, not all… Because not all, not everyone wants to serve Him

            730811BG.PAR Lectures
            Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah. Everything is done by prakrti under the direction of Krsna. This is the position. So there are so many thing. If you have got little brain, try to understand. Then knowledge is perfect. Even by studying, simply by studying these two or three lines in this thirteenth chapter, you can become a perfect knower. And if you follow Krsna’s instruction… He is giving you instruction. He’s ready to give you instruction. From inside and outside also. Inside He’s sitting. He’s ready to give you instructions. SARVASYA CAHAM HRDI SANNIVISTO. “I AM SITTING IN EVERYONE’S HEART.”
            MATTAH SMRTIR JNANAM APOHANAM CA: “FROM ME, ONE REMEMBERS, ONE FORGETS.” WHEN YOU FORGET SOMETHING, THAT IS ALSO KRSNA’S TRICK. BECAUSE… JUST LIKE THERE ARE SOME PERSONS WHO ARE DEVOTEES AND SOME PERSONS WHO ARE DEMONS. SO IF ANYONE WANTS TO BECOME A DEMONS, KRSNA IS WITHIN. HE’LL GIVE HIM INTELLIGENCE IN SUCH A WAY THAT HE BECOMES A FIRST-CLASS DEMON. What is the duty of the first-class demon? That he’ll never understand Krsna. (laughter) That is first-class demon. And if you want to hear Krsna, then he will give you such instruction as you will be relieved from this miserable condition of material life and go back to home, back to Godhead. He’s ready. But He does not speak generally, to the nondevotee. If you become a devotee, pure devotee, without any motive, then Krsna is sitting within your heart. He says: tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam. “Persons who are twenty-four hours engaged in My service with love and faith,” buddhi-yogam dadami tam: “I give him such intelligence by which he can come back to home, back to Godhead.”

            BERGSON.HAY Henri Bergson Philosophy
            Prabhupada: YES, YES. HE IS THE SUPREME POWER. HE CAN DO THAT. SO IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO FORGET KRSNA PERSISTENTLY–IN SPITE OF KRSNA’S INSTRUCTION, DEVOTEE’S INSTRUCTION, ONE DOES NOT CARE, HE PERSISTS TO BECOME A DEMON–KRSNA IS WITHIN THE HEART OF EVERYONE, SO HE GIVES HIM CHANCE TO BECOME MORE AND MORE SO THAT HE COMPLETELY FORGETS HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. That is explained in another place, ksipamy ajasram anta yonisu. In the Sixteenth Chapter. (aside:) You can find out. So that this rascal, life after life, remains a rascal. That is Krsna’s punishment, that he is kept in perpetual darkness. But it is the mercy of Krsna’s devotee, a Vaisnava, he is more compassionate, that “This rascal, he is in perpetual darkness. Let me try to relieve.” Therefore Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, vaisnava thakura tomara kukkura. “Vaisnava devotee, kindly accept me as your dog.” Because as Narottama dasa Thakura says, chadiya vaisnava seva: “Unless one who gets the shelter of a Vaisnava, he will perpetually remain in darkness.” (aside:) Have you got?

            Hari-sauri:

            tan aham dvisatah kruran
            samsaresu naradhaman
            ksipamy ajasram asubhan
            asurisv eva yonisu

            “THOSE WHO ARE ENVIOUS AND MISCHIEVOUS, WHO ARE THE LOWEST AMONG MEN, ARE CAST BY ME INTO THE OCEAN OF MATERIAL EXISTENCE, INTO VARIOUS DEMONIAC SPECIES OF LIFE.”

            Prabhupada: THEY WILL BE PUNISHED TO FORGET GOD, FORGET. HE WANTS TO FORGET, SO APOHANAM CA, MATTAH… THE BRAIN IS THERE, BUT KRSNA WANTS THAT THIS RASCAL SHOULD BE PUNISHED TO FORGET GOD. THEN HE WILL BE PUNISHED MORE BY THE MATERIAL NATURE, DAIVI HY ESA GUNAMAYI. MAYA’S BUSINESS IS TO PUNISH THE DEMON, SO MAYA KEEPS HIM IN DEMONIC LIFE SO THAT HE MAY BE PUNISHED MORE AND MORE. And Krsna gives intelligence to a devotee, tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam. One who is engaged in devotional service, trying sincerely, from within He is giving instruction, “Do like this. Do like this.”

  2. “Internationally, the movement was struggling to cope with life after Prabhupada. A number of disciples had been appointed as gurus to fill the void,… but the new system was to implode spectacularly over the next ten years as guru by guru fell from grace.”

    Narrator of the documentary, The Hare Krishna’s First Second and Third Generation. Where are they Now?

    “In 1986 there was a big festival, (at New Govhardhana farm) for Vishnupada who was the guru for most people in the community. Then shortly after that it was discovered that he wasn’t living the life of a celebate as he’d vowed to be, and that perhaps he wasn’t, you know, a directly empowered representative of God if he wasn’t able to maintain that standard. And there was a crisis of faith for many of the followers after that was revealed. It was tumultuous for everyone. It was hugely tumultuous because, you know, people imagined their spiritual path to be very much tied up with this person, and then he was gone”.

    Gurukuli interview – from the documentary, The Hare Krishna’s First Second and Third Generation. Where are they Now?

    Questions: Did Srila Prabhupada give us this new system wherein guru after guru fell from grace? Did Prabhupada create a system wherein sincere devotees would be left open and prone to crisis in faith? And did Srila Prabhupada give us anything ‘imagined’?

    • Sudarsana Das Vanacari says:

      This doco’ was meant for ‘mass consumption’ and contains many inconsistencies such as statements like ”A number of devotees had been appointed as gurus……” This statement is false! Where is the evidence that ANYONE was appointed as guru? There is none! Also the following words ”…to fill the void,…” The Idea that there is a ‘void’ is only a material concept as Srila Prabhupada is always with us the same way that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur is always with Srila Prabhupada.

      Guru does NOT fall down so what does this statement ..”guru by guru fell from grace” mean? Srila Prabhupada did NOT ”appoint” anyone as guru, so this statement is meaningless.

      Finally are you asking the questions at the end of of your comment? If so what do you think?

      Y s

      Sudarsana

      • Hare Krishna Sudarsana prabhu,

        yes of course no one was appointed and a real guru cannot not fall, and there was/is no void after Prabhupada because Prabhupada is still here as you know.

        But as they say, you can take gold from anywhere. Despite it’s inconsistencies (that may have been a result of what the doco makers were told by devotees, ie; the gurus where ‘appointed’ to fill a so called void) a careful listen of these historical accounts brings out many truths and clear evidence that the system we see now was not Prabhupada’s idea.

        When I write, I try to do it in such a way as to get devotees who might be reading these articles to think about the issue from many angles, including just plain common sense. Others present very well researched Sastric evidence on this site which is invaluable, but I’m not that way inclined and so I find myself searching for logic in actual events. When even a non-devotee doco maker points out that the the “new system” was to implode spectacularly over the next ten years as guru by guru fell from grace, I find that very teling. How can a thoughful, open minded devotee not hear such things and begin to doubt the current system?

        I’m not trying to ‘preach to the choir’ as they say, as devotees like yourself have been convinced for years I imagine that the ‘new system’ was a lie all along. But there are many devotees still waking up, and from my experience that is often done in gradual steps, so maybe I can offer a stepping stone or two for someone’s journey back to Prabhupada?

        By asking questions, (as opposed to making statements) I’m trying to leave it open to thoughtful devotees to discover their own realizations through education, and not feel these ideas are simply being forced on them in much the same manner as the ‘new system’ was in the past. Again this is just my style.

        Surya Narayana das – NZ

        mantracardsinc@yahoo.co.nz

        • Sudarsana Das Vanacari says:

          Dear Surya Narayana prabhu.

          Thank you, for your explanation. Always good to hear your thoughts on these subjects. When I read your questions, I was thinking ”sounds like Surya is having some doubts”, then I was thinking “no that cannot be possible as your previous comments were right on the button”, “maybe he is just playing devil’s advocate!” So like that I was a little perplexed as for the reasons you were asking these questions. So thanks again prabhu and I hope that you are well and in good spirits!

          Hare Krishna

          Y s Sudarsana.

        • We understand that Jesus Christ had to perform miracles and “rise from the dead” to convince his followers of his divine and empowered status. Srila Prabhupada has not explained his reason for arranging and ordering the rtvik program except that “we do not want a Gaudiya Math part two.My understanding is that Prabhupada saw that there was no disciple who was self realized or fully trained.
          So this makes sense that a rtvik procedure become the society standard and in this way the old and new devotees can understand that Prabhupada is eternal and eternally present for the sincere and strict followers..Jesus Christ was sometimes compared as Acharya to Prabhupada’s appearance..I stand to be corrected if I am not correct on this That quote from 1977″they killed Jesus Christ ;someday they may come and kill me”?January 1977

          • Sudarsana Das Vanacari says:

            Yes, Dharma prabhu There was no fault in Jesus Christ but because he comes to give the truth and knowledge of God many people want to do him harm. They also wanted to harm Mohamed (who had to flee Mecca). The same with Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur.

            The world is full of envious demons, something that Srila Prabhupada was only too aware. Why would he bestow the post of Guru to those who would poison his body? It is clear that his order was to remain Acharya and appoint persons ONLY TO ACT ON HIS BEHALF.

            The order comes first! The realization comes ONLY by adhering to the instructions given by the Acharya. Srila Prabhupada has stated his instructions clearly. What else could he do?

  3. So again this conversation is being repeated..One may ask why so many different understandings after so many falldowns and disasters. One exact quote explains that “to the demons ,such explanations by Krsna Himself (or Prabhupada )may appear to be strange because the demons always study Krsna from their own standpoint , but those who are devotees heartily welcome the statements of Krsna when they are spoken by Krsna Himself”BG 4:4

  4. Hare Krsna.

    Srila Prabhupada is TRI-KALA-JNA. The bogus gurus are fools if they think theirself superior . Actually they only the parts of Srila Prabhupada ‘s promise. Srila Prabhupada makes certain the ten thousand years for the next generations . He paves the way of Krsna consciousness movement for major improvement by samples of bogus gurus and bogus disciples. This is the purification process. Because the Kali-yuga becomes more and more dark where Srila Prabhupada radiates the light as Diksa and Siksa Guru.

  5. Sudarsana Das Vanacari says:

    If these (11) personalities would have followed Srila Prabhupada’s instructions to act in the capacity of Officiating Ritvik Representative they would have been acting in the role of Siksha also, although other devotees (to the extent that they are also strictly following the instructions of Srila Prabhupada) could also fulfill this role also, they would have progressed to the level of Madhyam Adhikari and things would have progressed more favourably.

    Because there was poisoning of Srila Prabhupada’s body and the 11 personalities DEFIED SRILA PRABHUPADA’S CLEAR DIRECTIONS to act as his representatives (in the position of Ritvik) by FALSELY USURPING THE POSITION OF “DIKSHA GURU” their position is ZERO! They are NOT even on the platform of Kanistha Adhikari (what to speak of Siksha Guru or Madhyam Adhikari). These are ASURAS! ONLY.

    It is not that “they became gurus and then they fell down” NO! THEY WERE NEVER GURU IN THE FIRST PLACE only USURPERS! They had already committed Guru Hatya SO THEY WERE ALREADY ASURAS AND “FALLEN DOWN” EVEN BEFORE FALSELY USURPING SRILA PRABHUPADA’S POSITION AS DIKSHA GURU.

    Now instead of just 11 RASCALS AND FOOLS there are HUNDREDS OF BOGUS, COUNTERFEIT RASCALS AND FOOLS (and counting). Srila Prabhupada knew there would be cheating and skulduggery and this was also the opinion of Puri Maharaja also. Srila Prabhupada gave (and is constantly giving also) the proper direction and instruction for our eternal benefit. Most will not take this opportunity however (that is the material disease) but the truth has to be presented as instructed by the Acharya. Whether persons follow or not depends upon their own free will.

    Daso Smi

    Sudarsana

    • Mahesh Raja says:

      Sudarsana Das Vanacari: It is not that “they became gurus and then they fell down” NO! THEY WERE NEVER GURU IN THE FIRST PLACE only USURPERS! They had already committed Guru Hatya SO THEY WERE ALREADY ASURAS AND “FALLEN DOWN” EVEN BEFORE FALSELY USURPING SRILA PRABHUPADA’S POSITION AS DIKSHA GURU.

      Mahesh: this is FACT. They were already ASURAS . NOT devotees. You can NOT address such DEMONS who gave poison to Srila Prabhupada as “Prabhus” “Maharajas” etc
      Sometimes devotees want to play at being polite calling them “prabhus” “maharaja” etc to these Anti Ritvik MANIPULATIVE slavery making money screwing Godless GOONS BUT this is NOT Srila Prabhupada’s way:

      IF A MAN IS A THIEF AND IF PEOPLE ARE WARNED THAT HE IS A THIEF, THAT IS TRUTH. ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES THE TRUTH IS UNPALATABLE, ONE SHOULD NOT REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING IT. TRUTHFULNESS DEMANDS THAT THE FACTS BE PRESENTED AS THEY ARE FOR THE BENEFIT OF OTHERS. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF TRUTH.

      10.4-5 P The Opulence of the Absolute
      SATYAM, TRUTHFULNESS, MEANS THAT FACTS SHOULD BE PRESENTED AS THEY ARE FOR THE BENEFIT OF OTHERS. FACTS SHOULD NOT BE MISREPRESENTED. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straight and forward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. IF A MAN IS A THIEF AND IF PEOPLE ARE WARNED THAT HE IS A THIEF, THAT IS TRUTH. ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES THE TRUTH IS UNPALATABLE, ONE SHOULD NOT REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING IT. TRUTHFULNESS DEMANDS THAT THE FACTS BE PRESENTED AS THEY ARE FOR THE BENEFIT OF OTHERS. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF TRUTH.

      Madhya 5.90 The Activities of Saksi-gopala
      A person who knows things as they are and still does not bear witness becomes INVOLVED in sinful activities.”

      SB 5.26.28 A Description of the Hellish Planets
      A person who in this life bears FALSE WITNESS or lies while transacting business or giving charity is severely punished after death by the agents of Yamaraja. Such a sinful man is taken to the top of a mountain eight hundred miles high and thrown headfirst into the hell known as Avicimat. This hell has no shelter and is made of strong stone resembling the waves of water. There is no water there, however, and thus it is called Avicimat [waterless]. Although the sinful man is repeatedly thrown from the mountain and his body broken to tiny pieces, he still does not die but continuously suffers chastisement.

      Prabhupada has stated in his conversations of May 3, 1973, Los Angeles,
      “…one who is mischievous, he is culprit. But one who tolerates mischievous activity, he is ALSO culprit. If you are mischievous, you are criminal. But if you tolerate mischievous activities that is ALSO criminal. ”
      & on April 19, 1973:
      “So you all write VERY STRONGLY vehemently. EVEN IT IS A LITTLE OFFENSIVE, STILL these rascals should be taught a lesson. Yes. They’re misleading. Godlessness.”

      Note: sometime some devotees put forward passive arguments of “do not fight” BUT if YOU do not fight they have ALREADY begun that FIGHT by given Srila Prabhupada poison USURPING Srila Prabhupada’s disciples, properties, changed his books WHAT is left?

      74-07-01. Letter: Gurudasa
      The whole management should be done combinedly. Do not fight amongst yourselves, as that is my only anxiety. I shall leave for Vrindaban by 25th July. In the meantime, reply to me at L.A.

      Bg 2.33 T Contents of the Gita Summarized
      IF, HOWEVER, YOU DO NOT FIGHT THIS RELIGIOUS WAR, THEN YOU WILL CERTAINLY INCUR SINS FOR NEGLECTING YOUR DUTIES and thus lose your reputation as a fighter.

      731209SB.LA Lectures
      So this Krsna consciousness movement is a challenge to all the rascals and fools, that’s all. SO THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THIS MOVEMENT VERY SERIOUSLY, THEY SHOULD BE VERY SOBER AND UNDERSTAND AT LEAST YOU MUST EXPOSE ALL THESE RASCALS. THAT WILL BE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED BY KRSNA.
      Thank you very much. (end)

      SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA

      730503mw.la Conversations
      Prabhupada: No, it is Sanskrit. And in Bengal it is called vane asiya raja.(?) “In the forest a jackal has become king.” They are like that. Nila-varna-srigalavat.(?) When… There is big story about this jackal. I will tell you some. A jackal came in the village and he fell in the tub where, what is called, the water? No, no. The water man keeps the water for dipping, making
      little bluish. For coloring. That blue, blue. So the washerman kept the dye water in a big tub, and the jackal fell in it. So jackal fell in it; he became blue, all blue. So he fled away, and all the animals said, “What is this animal? What is the animal? What is that animal? Oh?” All, even lion became surprised. “We have not seen this.” “So who are you, sir?” “I AM SENT BY GOD TO RULE OVER YOU.” “OH?” SO THEY BEGAN TO WORSHIP HIM AS GOD, AS LEADER. Then one day other jackals, they were crying, “Wa, wa,” but the jackals cannot stop. If others jackals cry, the jackal cannot stop. So he also began to “Wa, wa.” Oh, then, they, oh, this rascal is a jackal. Yavat kincin na bhasate. That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that “Here is a jackal.” SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA. NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, ALL POLITICAL THINGS, SOCIAL THINGS, EVERYTHING. THEY SHOULD BE ALL KICKED OUT. THEY SHOULD BE REPLACED BY KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. THEN PEOPLE WILL BE HAPPY. THIS SHOULD BE OUR PROGRAM. Our, this propaganda means to make people happy. It is not a business, to make business and take some money. And so many jackals have been arrested and resigned in your… You know that? Many jackals have been obliged to resign their post in the government.

      “A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. SURRENDER BY YOUR INTELLIGENCE BUT DON’T SURRENDER YOUR INTELLIGENCE.” (SP to Bali Mardana, 1974)

    • Mahesh Raja says:

      LW Prabhu that runaway freight train is—— heading to hell. These Anti Ritvik CROOKS are THINKING that they can get away. BECAUSE they are ATHEISTS they THINK they can PRETEND to be Diksa gurus and CON people. BUT—– when their time is UP —– they are DOOMED!!!!. Enjoy now: PAY LATER. Srila Prabhupada says, “man is the Architect of his fortune —-and his MISFORTUNE”. These Anti Ritvik GOONS usurping the PURE BRAHMANA VAISNAVA DEVOTEE Srila Prabhupada’s disciples and property means they are actually GATHERED TOGETHER for ENTERING LOWER FORMS: “A PERSON WHO TAKES AWAY PROPERTY WHICH HAS EITHER BEEN AWARDED TO A BRAHMANA OR GIVEN AWAY BY HIM IS CONDEMNED TO LIVE FOR AT LEAST 60,000 YEARS AS MISERABLY AS AN INSECT IN STOOL.”

      730617SB.MAY Lectures
      So here it is stated that vamsam kuror vamsa-davagni-nirhrtam. When everything was finished… Krsna knows how to kill the demons, setting fire. Just like you… Some way or other, if there is fire in the forest, automatically, so many trees, so many animals, so many other things, they become devastated, burned into ashes. SO KRSNA, BY THE POLICY OF KRSNA, ALL THE DEMONS WERE BROUGHT TOGETHER IN THE BATTLEFIELD OF KURUKSETRA, and set them… The fire was set, fighting, and they died. When Arjuna was hesitating to fight, Arjuna was at last informed that “Why you are hesitating? It is all My plan. You fight or don’t fight, it doesn’t matter. These people are not going back home. They will die here.” Nimitta-matram bhava savyasacin: “You just become only a nimitta, an immediate cause. Everything is arranged. But if you fight, you get the credit. I want to see My devotee gets the credit. Everything I am doing.”

      750323AR.MAY Lectures
      Prabhupada: Many countries. It is unnatural to deny God. It is unnatural. This is also Krsna’s another magic. All such people who had any doubt about Krsna, they have been kept over there in Russia. JUST LIKE THE OTHER DAY THERE WAS A TRAIN CRASH ACCIDENT. SO ALL THESE RASCALS THEY ARE BROUGHT TOGETHER IN THAT WAY IN A TRAIN OR TWO TRAIN, AND THEY SMASHED. THAT IS… JUST LIKE KRSNA DID IN BATTLE OF KURUKSETRA. ALL THE RASCALS WERE BROUGHT INTO THE BATTLEFIELD AND FINISHED. (end)

      KB 64 The Story of King Nrga
      Lord Krsna continued: “If some foolish king who is puffed up by his wealth, prestige and power wants to usurp a brahmana’s property, it should be understood that such a king is clearing his path to hell; he does not know how much he has to suffer for such unwise action. If someone takes away the property of a very liberal brahmana who is encumbered by a large dependent family, then such a usurper is put into the hell known as Kumbhipaka; not only is he put into this hell, but his family members also have to accept such a miserable condition of life. A PERSON WHO TAKES AWAY PROPERTY WHICH HAS EITHER BEEN AWARDED TO A BRAHMANA OR GIVEN AWAY BY HIM IS CONDEMNED TO LIVE FOR AT LEAST 60,000 YEARS AS MISERABLY AS AN INSECT IN STOOL. Therefore I instruct you, all My boys and relatives present here, do not, even by mistake, take the possession of a brahmana and thereby pollute your whole family. If someone even wishes to possess such property, let alone attempts to take it away by force, the duration of his life will be reduced. He will be defeated by his enemies, and after being bereft of his royal position, when he gives up his body he will become a serpent. A serpant gives trouble to all other living entities. My dear boys and relatives, I therefore advise you that even if a brahmana becomes angry with you and calls you by ill names or cuts you, still you should not retaliate. On the contrary, you should smile, tolerate him and offer your respects to the brahmana. You know very well that even I Myself offer My obeisances to the brahmanas with great respect three times daily. You should therefore follow My instruction and example. I shall not forgive anyone who does not follow them, and I shall punish him. You should learn from the example of King Nrga that even if someone unknowingly usurps the property of a brahmana, he is put into a miserable condition of life.”

      Bg 16.19 T The Divine And Demoniac Natures

      tan aham dvisatah kruran
      samsaresu naradhaman
      ksipamy ajasram asubhan
      asurisv eva yonisu

      TRANSLATION

      THOSE WHO ARE ENVIOUS AND MISCHIEVOUS, WHO ARE THE LOWEST AMONG MEN, ARE CAST BY ME INTO THE OCEAN OF MATERIAL EXISTENCE, INTO VARIOUS DEMONIAC SPECIES OF LIFE.

      PURPORT
      In this verse it is clearly indicated that the placing of a particular individual soul in a particular body is the prerogative of the supreme will. The demoniac person may not agree to accept the supremacy of the Lord, and it is a fact that he may act according to his own whims, but his next birth will depend upon the decision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and not on himself. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Third Canto, it is stated that an individual soul, after his death, is put into the womb of a mother where he gets a particular type of body under the supervision of superior power. Therefore in the material existence we find so many species of life–animals, insects, men, and so on. ALL ARE ARRANGED BY THE SUPERIOR POWER. THEY ARE NOT ACCIDENTAL. AS FOR THE DEMONIAC, IT IS CLEARLY SAID HERE THAT THEY ARE PERPETUALLY PUT INTO THE WOMBS OF DEMONS, AND THUS THEY CONTINUE TO BE ENVIOUS, THE LOWEST OF MANKIND. SUCH DEMONIAC SPECIES OF LIFE ARE HELD TO BE ALWAYS FULL OF LUST, ALWAYS VIOLENT AND HATEFUL AND ALWAYS UNCLEAN. THEY ARE JUST LIKE SO MANY BEASTS IN A JUNGLE.

      SB 5.26.6 A Description of the Hellish Planets
      The King of the pitas is Yamaraja, the very powerful son of the sun-god. He resides in Pitrloka with his personal assistants and, while abiding by the rules and regulations set down by the Supreme Lord, has his agents, the Yamadutas, bring all the sinful men to him immediately upon their death. AFTER BRINGING THEM WITHIN HIS JURISDICTION, HE PROPERLY JUDGES THEM ACCORDING TO THEIR SPECIFIC SINFUL ACTIVITIES AND SENDS THEM TO ONE OF THE MANY HELLISH PLANETS FOR SUITABLE PUNISHMENTS.

      PURPORT
      Yamaraja is not a fictitious or mythological character; he has his own abode, Pitrloka, of which he is king. AGNOSTICS MAY NOT BELIEVE IN HELL, BUT SUKADEVA GOSVAMI AFFIRMS THE EXISTENCE OF THE NARAKA PLANETS, WHICH LIE BETWEEN THE GARBHODAKA OCEAN AND PATALALOKA. YAMARAJA IS APPOINTED BY THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD TO SEE THAT THE HUMAN BEINGS DO NOT VIOLATE HIS RULES AND REGULATIONS. As confirmed in Bhagavad-gita (4.17):

      karmano hy api boddhavyam
      boddhavyam ca vikarmanah
      akarmanas ca boddhavyam
      gahana karmano gatih

      “The intricacies of action are very hard to understand. Therefore one should know properly what action is, what forbidden action is, and what inaction is. “One should understand the nature of karma, vikarma and akarma, and one must act accordingly. This is the law of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The conditioned souls, who have come to this material world for sense gratification, are allowed to enjoy their senses under certain regulative principles. IF THEY VIOLATE THESE REGULATIONS, THEY ARE JUDGED AND PUNISHED BY YAMARAJA. HE BRINGS THEM TO THE HELLISH PLANETS AND PROPERLY CHASTISES THEM TO BRING THEM BACK TO KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. By the influence of maya, however, the conditioned souls remain infatuated with the mode of ignorance. Thus in spite of repeated punishment by Yamaraja, they do not come to their senses, but continue to live within the material condition, committing sinful activities again and again.

      750214BG.MEX Lectures
      Prabhupada: HE MAY NOT BELIEVE IN THE LAW, BUT LAW IS LAW. IF SOMEBODY SAYS “I CAN COMMIT SOME CRIMINAL ACT, BUT I DON’T BELIEVE IN THE COURT’S JUDGEMENT,” WILL IT BE ACCEP…? YOU BELIEVE OR NOT BELIEVE; THE LAW WILL ACT. JUST LIKE IF YOU INFECT SOME DISEASE, INFECTIOUS DISEASE, IF YOU CONTAMINATE, THEN YOU MUST DEVELOP THAT DISEASE. THAT IS THE LAW. SO WE ARE CONTAMINATING OURSELF WITH DIFFERENT LAWS OF MATERIAL NATURE, AND ACCORDING TO THAT LAW, WE HAVE TO ACCEPT THE BODY. The material laws are not under your control; you are under the control of material laws.

  6. Mahesh Raja says:

    Devotees will like to see this.
    Here is more exposing on video of the bogus gurus of ISKCON:

    ISKCONspiracy 4 – The Eleven Princes

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnkvhLF664s&feature=youtu.be

    • Sudarsana Das Vanacari says:

      Thanks, Mahesh Raja prabhu,

      This film is irrefutable damning evidence of the “bogus guru, usurpers” and very well researched and edited. These guys were (are) crazy envious demons with NO regard whatsoever for Srila Prabhupada or the transcendental movement of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. The scores of bogus ”gurus” that have been “appointed” by these rascals are counterfeit copies and also are disconnected from Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and Srila Prabhupada himself. As the film clearly shows, these are nothing more than criminals, murderers, and reprobates! pushing their ”bona-fide guru” delusions onto the most unfortunate and gullible individuals!

      Daso Smi

      Sudarsana

  7. Mahesh Raja says:

    Note: Anti Ritvik goons and their followers have gone CRAZY. Yamuna dasi did some nice service – accepted. BUT—— SO DID THOSE DEVOTEES who EQUALLY distributed in ATROCIOUS conditions of FREEZING WIND RAIN SNOW Srila Prabhupada’s books. Samadhi is for SANNYASI not for CONDITIONED soul. And they are going to worship A STONE construction – just see the level of their MADNESS! Bhagavad Gita states those who worship WORSHIP DEAD SPIRITS as in MODE OF IGNORANCE.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgKEqaK9b7U

    PoP 1 Yoga as Action
    According to the Vedic system, the body of A HIGH PERSONALITY, A SANNYASI, IS NOT BURNED BUT BURIED, BECAUSE A SANNYASI’S BODY IS CONSIDERED SPIRITUAL, HAVING CEASED TO ENGAGE IN MATERIAL ACTIVITIES.

    Bg 17.4 T The Divisions of Faith
    Men in the mode of goodness worship the demigods; those in the mode of passion worship the demons; AND THOSE IN THE MODE OF IGNORANCE WORSHIP GHOSTS AND SPIRITS.

    PURPORT
    Now, it is clearly described here that those who are in the mode of passion worship and create such gods, AND THOSE WHO ARE IN THE MODE OF IGNORANCE, IN DARKNESS, WORSHIP DEAD SPIRITS. SOMETIMES PEOPLE WORSHIP AT THE TOMB OF SOME DEAD MAN.

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