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I never met Sripad Aindra Prabhu personally (and am spiritually the loser because of it!) but am greatly inspired by his powerful words. His kirtans are of the most sweet and transcendental quality because this vaisnava’s purity and renunciation is of the highest order and most certainly at least on the madhyam, madhyam platform of transcendental realization.
The video ”Aindra Prabhu’s Message” (on the ISKCONspiracy site) is is a strong, bold and lion-hearted expose’ of FISKCON’S bogus guru, hypocritical, spiritually and morally bankrupt agenda.
I am in constant awe of Aindra Prabhu and his masterful understanding of Guru Tattva, his scholarly and powerful command of language and his sweet, pure, melodious, nectarean kirtans.
A large monumental memorial will one day be built for this great, powerful and courageous vaisnava when the “samhadi” structures of all the FISKCON departed ”bogus gurus” have been turned into public urinals!
All glories to Sripad Aindra Das
I pray for the dust of his lotus feet.
Sudarsana
Due to an incomplete understanding of Aindra Das (having only read the first part of his book and a few youtube clips) I unreservedly withdraw the positive things I said about this devotee. Although he has made some valid comments regarding the leadership of FISKCON, the conclusion that the devotees have made on this topic, that Aindra Das was heavily influenced by Sahajiya ”philosophy” (as is evident in the latter parts of his book), Is also shared by myself.
I ”jumped the gun” on this one that’s for sure not knowing the Sahajiya writings that make up the latter part of the book and thank all the devotees who boldly pointed out the facts about Aindra Das to me (which were not always appreciated by myself!). As the process of Guru, Sadhu and Sastra is an integral process of understanding spiritual truth, the value of Sadhu (sincere devotee association) cannot be underestimated in this regard. Every now and then Krishna arranges that you ‘drop a brick on your foot’ when you become complacent, inattentive or over-confident just to let you know that we are all subject to illusion and always dependent on His mercy.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
It is very nice to read from Sudarsana Das Vanacari writing that he never met personally Sripad Aindra Prabhu and yet he is inspired by Sripad Aindra Prabhu’s most sweet and transcendental quality of his Vaishnava’s purity and renunication which is of the highest order and most certainly at least on the Madhyam, madhayam platform of transcendental realization as described by Sudarsana Das Vanacari.
A Madhyam platform of transcendental realization person is certainly guided by the Super Soul away from all types of material misery as we learn it from the Scripture.
To my understanding, if Sripad Aindra Prabhu is on Madhyam platform of transcendental realization as Sudarsana Das Vanacari described in his comments, then, why was he not guided to avoid such a horrific accident through which he left his body ?
Hope some body does answer this question.
Amar Puri: To my understanding, if Sripad Aindra Prabhu is on Madhyam platform of transcendental realization as Sudarsana Das Vanacari described in his comments, then, why was he not guided to avoid such a horrific accident through which he left his body ?
Mahesh: I do not think he was on Madhyama Platform—- BUT he did speak out against the bogus gurus of ISKCON– OBVIOUS they did not like this. Looks like a case of murder. I got sent some photos of the room and Gas Cylinder long time back. It showed the Pipe of the gas Cylinder looked tampered with. Much of the evidence was cleared from the room very quick. They were also going to force him to vacate his room.
From what I hear:
1) If there is a gas blast would you BE IN A POSITION to go and lie down dandavatts in front of deities AT THAT TIME?
2) ALL access was JAMMED shut. HOW can that be?
Looks like murder.
It is always difficult to arrive at a consensus view as to the position of a vaisnava and Sripada Aindra Das is no exception to this as he clearly exhibited some ‘avadhuta’ like qualities, which are difficult for many devotees to understand. The cause of his departure from this world will no doubt be also hotly debated. There are accounts that I have read which suggest that Aindra Prabhu kept his living quarters ‘tightly battened down’ which is understandable given the fact that he was writing a book which severely criticized the position of the ‘bogus guru’ system (among many other things) and was alert to the fact that such a document could be ‘removed’ if he was not vigilant in keeping it secure.
The rooms he occupied were to all accounts poorly ventilated and this coupled with the use of bottled gas and burners poses a very dangerous mix. The idea that this gas bottle was tampered with can not be discounted as the GBC were discussing only days before that the ‘wanted to get rid of him’. What can be accepted as a clear fact is that the GBC are guilty ‘by neglect’ by not providing more suitable, well ventilated facility for this devotee.
As far as your statement about Aindra Prabhu being found ‘paying dandavats’, one explanation could be that, because gas from bottles is heavier than air, when there is a gas leak the gas hovers around at ground level (this is why it is very dangerous to use on boats, yachts etc as it has nowhere to escape!). The ghee lamps on Aindra’s alter were higher up (mid height) so were away from the gas but when he offered ‘dandavat pranams’ by lying flat to the floor, this may have displaced the gas very quickly, causing it to surge upward (around his person) especially if this was done in a quick manner, causing the gas to ignite while he was prostrate on the floor.
This is only a theory however but a plausible one I believe. This possibility of course does not absolve the GBC from ‘criminal neglect’ with regards to Aindra’s ‘substandard, dangerous dwelling or the credible likelihood of skulduggery and foul play.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Mahesh does not think Sripad Aindra Prabhu is or was on Madhyam platform of transcendental realization as Sudarsana Das Vanacari described.
Accepting and rejecting reflects upon how we are influenced by our individual nature controlled under the Gunas.
No body has the precise nature of the circumstances under which Sripad Aindra Prabhu faced which made him to leave his body while he was in his apartment.
My inference based on the information provided by Mahesh in his comments about his death is that probably he did not know at all what was to take place while he was on the way to his apartment. Upon arrival at his place, perhaps he started his daily Pooja not realizing and smelling the gas in his place. He lit the matches and the fire broke out while some one out side controlled the event very cunningly till his death which looks like a murder case.
Why one may accept Sripad Aindra Prabhu on Madhyam platform of transcendental realization and other may not is simply the individual choice based on ones sentiments.
That is how it turns out to be until or unless some body may shed further insights on this particular topic.
Srila Prabhupada gives a very detailed description of how to deal with the 3 types of Vaisnava devotees in his Bhaktivedanta Purport NOI verse 5, where he also quotes Srimad Bhagavatam 11.2.46.
“The madhyama-adhikari is a devotee who worships the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the highest object of love, makes friends with the Lord’s devotees, is merciful to the ignorant and avoids those who are envious by nature.”
He states.. “A madhyama-adhikari has received spiritual initiation from the spiritual master and has been fully engaged by him in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The madhyama-adhikari should be considered to be situated midway in devotional service.”
One therefore might consider the operative words ‘fully engaged’ in any appraisal of one’s own or others’ devotional service. Srila Prabhupada states later in the purport….
“In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform.”
NB.. ISKCON guroos please take note!
Yhs,
Balaram das.
Gold Coast Australia.
Dear Amar Puri Prabhu.
In reference to the questions regarding the ‘position’ of Aindra Prabhu, from my own perspective anyway, the example of Bhismadeva comes to mind as he was a very advanced devotee but he was taking food, shelter and association of the Kuru Dynasty. Because Bhismadeva had accepted this position then this of course presents a compromise in relation to his position and a reluctance on his part to ‘act’ in relation to the injustices which were inflicted upon the Pandavas (and particularly Draupadi as he bore witness).
There is much evidence however that as Aindra Prabhu advanced spiritually (no doubt due to his attachment to the power of The Holy Name and a sound understanding of Guru Tattva) his position was becoming more and more difficult. It is much more difficult (and dangerous) to attack the enemy whilst one is living in their midst, taking their association, food and shelter. I have no doubt that in his own mind he was of the opinion that all of this property is the property of The Supreme Lord and the idea that ”why I should be ejected from my service to Hare Nama Seva and Prabhupada Seva.” was in his thoughts.
It is a fact however that in spite of these difficulties, he was becoming very outspoken and forthright and was finding the situation intolerable, deciding to write his book (which I believe was in the pipeline for many years). Although I have not read the book all the way through, Aindra Prabhu gives a very powerful critique of the ‘bogus guru’ culture of FISKCON and I am in no doubt of his sincerity, honesty and spiritual realizations.
One may be very advanced as with the example of Bhismadeva, who also because of his realization gained liberation from material existence but also had to suffer pain inflicted to his physical body due to his being compromised in the association of demons.
Well, for what it’s worth that is my understanding. These examples are there in Sastra for reasons that may of course shed light upon our own experiences and the situation of other persons. Perhaps other devotees may wish to offer their own comments or views. As for myself I am just a conditioned soul with many flaws and faults so I offer my dandavat pranams in case I have caused any offense or miss-read the situation or topic under discussion.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Note: Srila Prabhupada from 1966-1977 did NOT allow beards and long hair for ANY of his disciples.
Aindra Prabhus beard and long hair looks like heavy influence from Narayana Maharaja whom he also saw. This is DISOBEDIENCE to Srila Prabhupada:
Madhya 20.70 Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Sanatana Gosvami in the Science
The words bhadra karana are significant in this verse. Due to his long hair, moustache and beard, Sanatana Gosvami looked like a daravesa, or hippie. Since Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not like Sanatana Gosvami’s hippie features, he immediately asked Candrasekhara to get him shaved clean. IF ANYONE WITH LONG HAIR OR A BEARD WANTS TO JOIN THIS KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS MOVEMENT AND LIVE WITH US, HE MUST SIMILARLY SHAVE HIMSELF CLEAN. THE FOLLOWERS OF SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU CONSIDER LONG HAIR OBJECTIONABLE.
76-07-17. Letter: Dhrstaketu
Unless absolutely necessary, one should keep head shaven and not allow the hair to grow long. If absolutely necessary, one can dress like an American gentleman, with short hair, but long hair is prohibited. The reason that one with long hair is not my disciple is because he is against the principle. Unless absolutely necessary one should keep hair short, and if necessary one can dress like an American gentleman with short hair. IT IS NOT EXPECTED THAT EVERYONE WILL JOIN. FOR THAT REASON WE CAN’T COMPROMISE. THE TENDENCY IS THERE TO BE HIPPY. WHEN THE ACARYAS ARE SEEN WITH BEARD, THAT IS DURING CATURMASYA, JULY-SEPTEMBER. IF OBSERVED STRICTLY THERE IS NOT SIMPLY A BEARD. THERE ARE SO MANY RULES AND REGULATIONS. ONE CAN’T EAT A VARIETY OF FOODS. ONLY KITRI PREPARED AND POURED ON THE FLOOR, AND THEN LICKED UP. THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER RULES ALSO. THAT IS NOT ALWAYS THAT THEY KEPT BEARD.
Letter to: Ramesvara
—
NEWSLETTER
26 November, 1976
Dear Ramesvara Maharaja,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. The following is an extract from a morning class on S.B. 5.6.3, delivered on 25.11.76. Srila Prabhupada has requested that it be sent to all temples and G.B.C.
“If you pat your subordinates it will increase their faulty habits and if you chastise them, they will improve. Therefore it is advised that either your son or disciple, you should always chastise them, never give them leniency. So a little leniency, immediately so many faults will grow. Now for our practical life we are known all over the world as shaven headed, is it not? Now we are becoming hair-headed, we are forgetting shaving. Because there is a little leniency, immediately faulty things are creeping in. SO WE SHOULD BE KNOWN AS SHAVEN-HEADED, NOT HAIR-HEADED. THIS IS DISCREPANCY. AT LEAST ONCE IN A MONTH YOU MUST BE CLEARLY SHAVEN-HEADED. ON THE BRIGHT FORTNIGHT, ON THE DAY OF PURNIMA, FOUR DAYS AFTER EKADASI. ONCE IN A MONTH, IN THE BRIGHT FORTNIGHT WE MUST BE SHAVEN-HEADED. IT IS NOT DESIRABLE THAT IN GROWN UP AGE ALSO, YOU BE CHASTISED. THAT IS NOT DESIRABLE-THAT IS ALSO DIFFICULT BECAUSE WHEN THE DISCIPLE OR SON IS GROWN UP, IF HE IS CHASTISED, THEN HE BREAKS. SO BEFORE BEING CHASTISED WE SHOULD BE CONSCIOUS THAT THIS IS OUR RULES AND REGULATIONS, WE MUST OBSERVE. Therefore it is advised by Canakya Pandit (Sanskrit) After the 16th year of the disciple or son, he should be treated as friend because if you chastise when he is grown up then he will break up- that is also another risk. So our request is that instead of chastising, with folded hands I request you, don’t you become hippies again by growing hair. Keep your head cleansed at least once in a month. That is my request. Neither I can chastise you, I am an old man and you are young men.”And in the room after the lecture:
S.P.: “At least once in a month you must be shaven-headed.”
Dev.: “Actually we usually shave more than once a month-every two weeks because even after two weeks it looks a little dirty.
Dev.: “You can get good wigs.”
S.P.: “No. There is no need. That is also mental concoction. Nowadays you can go with coat, pant and shaven head, noone will criticize. It has become fashion. Russians, they use, Krushchev, I have seen, shaven head.
Dev.: “They don’t have a sikha. That’s all.”
S.P.: “It is practice only”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: Madhyama can SEE ISVARA. It is NO MORE THEORETICAL . Frankly speaking – doubt he was on Madhyama platform.
760211SB.MAY Lectures
In the madhyama-adhikari he can SEE four things. What is that? Four things means, first of all the Supreme Lord, isvara, the controller, he can see. He can see means he understands, he appreciates, HE CAN CONCEIVE, “YES, THE SUPREME LORD IS THERE”. THERE IS NO MORE THEORETICAL. So isvara, and tad-adhinesu, and persons who have become devotee, he can understand, “Here is a devotee.” Isvare tad-adhinesu balisesu. Balisa means he knows imperson. They do not know what is God, what is to be done, they are called balisa. Just like children, arbhakah, balisa. And then dvisat, envious. Just like you have experienced so many rascals, as soon as they hear of God, immediately they become agitated. They are called dvisat, envious, demons. So four things, God, His devotees, and the innocent person, and the demonic atheist. He can see, madhyama-adhikari. And then he behaves with these four classes of men differently. What is that? Prema, for Krsna, the Supreme Lord, how to increase love. That is first business, prema. And those who are devotees, to make friendship with them maitri. Those who are higher than him, he should offer very respectful obeisances, those who are equal, treat them with nicely, and those who are lower then instruct them, balisesu. Those who are innocent, how to raise him in Krsna consciousness. This is preaching. And dvisatsu, upeksah, those who are atheist, don’t associate with them. Don’t associate with them. That is the madhyama-adhikari.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I still think he WAS murdered. The more I look deeper into this the more I am convinced. The Photos sent was showing deliberate tampering with gas pipe. This means – if WE can SEE that Gas pipe HAS been tampered with. Aindra prabhu MUST have SEEN it too. There is NO WAY he could have missed this as it was SO OBVIOUS. Looks to me as if the the gas pipe tampering was LATER addition TO CONVINCE OTHERS eg Police etc. “Blast” was MOST LIKELY arranged AFTER they murdered him with blow-torch? burns and placed his body in obeisances to deities.
From what I gather on internet he was writing a book and had some proofs of the bogus gurus the SAME gang who gave poison to Srila Prabhuapada. He was upsetting the whole set-up there. Looks like they did neat job of SEARCHING trying to get hold of this info – as they disposed of everything in his room VERY QUICK. Also cremated him VERY quick. Anyway – this is MY understanding.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
FIRST to become to QUALIFIED Brahmana stage(kanistha) THAT is ALSO some BIG achievement. Not that simple to be Avadhutta:
Brahmana (Kanistha)
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-09/editorials4258.htm
Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-07/editorials2223.htm
Mahesh Raja Prabhu
I couldn’t care less if Aindra Prabhu had a beard or not (or if he wore his dhoti in a different style). I also visited Narayana Maharaja, in fact I took ‘hare nama initiation’ from him in 2008 (but rejected him 2 years later)………so what! These days there aren’t any hippies (unless you live in Northern New South Wales!) and people don’t think you are a hippy just because you have long hair. Where I live if you wear a sikha they think you are a ‘bogan’ (white trash) as that is the look adopted by them, so that is the impression they get!
My niece has managed a band called ‘The Beards’ for the last decade as this is a style which has come back into fashion (hipsters) who generally wear the hair very short and grow their beards very long. These guys have done several world tours as this is a worldwide trend. Your assumption that Aindra Prabhu grew a beard because of Nararayan Maharaja is just hearsay, as he also rejected Narayana Maharaja and the Gaudiya Math.
If you concern yourself with superficial things such as how someone appears on the surface, then you run the risk of being seen as self righteous, petty and fanatical instead of understand the heart of the individual. We should get over superficial appearances and see the bigger picture. We are all individuals not that we should all adopt a kind of ”cookie cutter” profile of fanatical, external, uniformity as this kind of superficiality is something that is more befitting the GBC (externally highly polished but internally diseased, festering and corrupt).
I have a picture of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur with very long beard which would have taken at least a year to grow so this was not just for Caturmasya so this was common thing in his time. Also Lord Chaitanya, Sri Nityananda, Sri Gadadhara, and Sri Advaita Acharya having long hair also, and Sri Advaita Acharya having also long beard.
I am sure if you read Aindra Prabhu’s book you will change you perspective about him rather than just looking to find fault in external appearances.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Sudarsana: We are all individuals not that we should all adopt a kind of ”cookie cutter” profile of fanatical, external, uniformity as this kind of superficiality is something that is more befitting the GBC (externally highly polished but internally diseased, festering and corrupt).
Mahesh: Prabhu, with all due respect – please do not misunderstand me. It is not a question of being fanatical or looking for fault because we already KNOW that the bunch of money screwing slavery making Anti Ritvik GBC and their follower ASSES are in the DRESS of Vaisnavas. Rather, my point is that Srila Prabhupada set STANDARDS in ISKCON. We have to RESPECT his wishes. There are many devotees that are OUTSIDE official ISKCON who have beards etc are SINCERE we KNOW this. There are many who have done some big time Srila Prabhupada’s book distribution etc. So we DO give all respect to these folks who have been driven out. Their circumstances are different. So I am NOT fault finding. However – when one is IN ISKCON we expect that they have to give due RESPECT for Srila Prabhupada’s instructions of HOW he wanted. We do NOT want to see replicas of Beards of Narayana Maharaja Beards of Sridhara Maharaja etc replace Srila Prabhupada’s instructions: THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE FOLLOW THE REGULATIVE GUIDELINES AS LAID DOWN BY GREAT SAINTS AND ACARYAS IN OUR LINE:
72-01-21. Letter: Chaturbhus
Lord Caitanya may have long hair in his early grhastha life, but that does not mean that we should imitate Lord Caitanya. Caitanya also had shaven head and sikha. THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE FOLLOW THE REGULATIVE GUIDELINES AS LAID DOWN BY GREAT SAINTS AND ACARYAS IN OUR LINE, AND SO IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT WE WEAR CLEAN-SHAVEN HEADS. but there is no hard and fast rule in this respect. If it is practical to grow hairs out, that can be done. But it is not that we may imitate Lord Caitanya by growing big hairs.
760206mw.may Conversations
Tamala Krsna: Burnt off. (break) What is the way to draw the line between the following three things: blasphemy, fault-finding, and calling a spade a spade?
Prabhupada: A spade a spade… Just like I am saying that “What you are? You are small fig only.” That is reality. And what is the other?
Tamala Krsna: The other is fault-finding and…
Prabhupada: Fault-finding, that is another fault, that… vranam icchanti, maksika vranam icchanti, madhum icchanti(?) Just like the flies, they are finding out where is sore, and the bees, they are finding out where there is honey. So two animals, they have got two business: fault-finding and collecting the good things. These are two… Just like creature. They are two classes. Similarly, there are many rascals who are simply fault-finding.
Tamala Krsna: And blasphemy?
Prabhupada: Blasphemy means you have good qualities, but still, I am defaming you.
Mahesh Raja Prabhu.
I am not in disagreement with your statements regarding beards and long hair and living in a temple also makes a difference with regards to this also. I personally do not like beards myself (as I remember growing one once!) and find it quite annoying having facial hair but at the same time others make their own choices due to their own individual preferences (even though Srila Prabhupada did most certainly disapproved of the practice for temple devotees).
I have seen many pictures of Aindra Prabhu ‘all shaved up’ so to speak so I don’t believe that the ‘bearded look’ was a permanent feature, perhaps just a ‘disinterest’ on his part with regard to his appearance. I agree that we should not disregard Srila Prabhupada’s instruction on these things, running the risk of ‘adopting the practices of the Gaudiya Math’ though I think in the case of Aindra Prabhu he displayed some indifference due to his renounced position and detachment from the bodily platform.
Good to hear your thoughts….
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Dear Sudarsana Prabhu,
With all due respects, I have to say that I’m very upset to have read parts of this book (as I mentioned on another thread also). In later chapters he (Aindra das) addresses Srimati Radharani as follows:
“Hey Radhe! … After massaging Your delightful figure with exceptionally fragrant seasonal oils and
helping to blissfully shower You with an abundance of refreshing flower-scented water, I will remove Your thin white bathing garment, carefully pat You dry with a luxuriant, soft silk towel, and, at Lalitä-sakhi’s behest, gift You with new lavishly lacey undergarments lovingly made by me. I will then carefully dry and comb your long curly tresses and, in the dressing room, as my friends help to tie Your sari, I will, on the pretext of fastening Your jeweled ankle-bells, placing my head beneath Your skirt where no one can notice me secretly kissing the tips of Your sweet and delicate toes, offer my life’s breath a million times over in the dust of Your lotus feet. With a happy heart, I will loosely place above Your incomparably gorgeous, shapely buttocks, which captivate the unruly eyes of Your beloved
Syämasundara, a sweetly tinkling crystal-belled kiìkiëé belt. As my priya-sakhis, upon my request, place sparkling toe-rings on Your toes, jeweled rings on Your fingers, and many thin, delicately chiming alternating gold and sapphire bracelets on Your wrists, I will adorn Your lovely, pure, plump breasts with heavenly, fragrant kumkuma and dexterously paint upon them varieties of mind-alluring pictures with kastüré musk.” etc., etc.
Prabhu, there’s no doubt that Srila Prabhupada would be furious that his disciple would dare to write such things. This is beyond our station in life having been born in mlecca and yavana families. Srila Prabhupada himself did not write like this and we are supposed to humbly follow in his footsteps.
When Srila Prabhupada once heard that devotees were splashing and jumping in Radha-Kunda, he has very angry and forbid the devotees from submerging themselves in Radharani’s sacred pond. He said that from then on devotees should simply place three drops of water on their heads, bas. Westerners were too offensive. We cannot enjoy Radharani – she is Krishna’s to enjoy. This book is jumping over Prabhupada’s head because Srila Prabhupada never spoke such things to us. First we should realize that I am not this body (aham brahmasmi), then we can talk of higher subject matters. But even then, not in public, as Lord Caitanya taught by example.
Please think about this seriously. I have confidence that you’re a sincere devotee and you will come to the correct conclusion. I don’t mean to be offensive, but this is way out of line from what Srila Prabhupada taught us. I hope you understand. Thank you for consideration. Hare Krsna.
I can relate to what you are saying and must admit that I cannot recall reading such statements as I have only begun to read his book. The process of diety worship is a very intimate service but I am not an expert on this topic except to say that the worship of Radha Krishna is only meant for very advanced devotees as there is the danger that offenses may be committed which subsequently result in a reaction. My understanding is that the mood of Radha Krishna worship is performed in the consciousness of the manjari maidservants of Sri Radha and Krishna.
The ultimate process of diety worship is to become attached to the intimate service of Their Lordships Sri Radha and Krishna and by meditation on their transcendental forms, become detached from lusty desires which manifest as a result of contemplating the material forms of the opposite sex.
Tenth canto of Srimad Bhagavatam should only be read when one has understood all the other cantos or this may be misunderstood. I believe that Aindra Prabhu had this in mind when he wrote at the beginning of his book that one should first have a good understanding of Srila Prabhupada’s books first. It is my understanding that he obtained permission from Srila Prabhupada to write, so I don’t agree with you that he is ”going over Srila Prabhupada’s head”.
There is no evidence (and much to the contrary) to suggest that Aindra Prabhu was predatory with regards women, or that his consciousness was absorbed in material, lusty thoughts of the opposite sex, so I do believe that you may have misread the situation. As I have mentioned before such persons are misunderstood by the vast majority of devotees. Devotees who attain perfection within the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu are eternally engaged in the most intense, intimate service of Sri Radha and Krishna.
Devotees who have reached this stage have completed ‘all the other stages’ and are not bound by the limited, mundane opinions of consensus, or popular opinion of all and sundry. Also the idea that one cannot attain perfection because one is born in a mleccha or yavana family is of no consequence otherwise why would His Divine Grace go to so much trouble.
Before Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur became a vaisnava, It is my understanding (and correct me if I am mistaken) he was also eating meat (lamb) and fish.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Sudarsana:Before Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur became a vaisnava, It is my understanding (and correct me if I am mistaken) he was also eating meat (lamb) and fish.
Mahesh: this business of trying to JUSTIFY Aindra’s CONCOCTIONS by trying to RELATE to Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura is not a wise move. There is NO evidence to SUPPORT that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura THE ACARYA ate meat. CONDITIONED SOUL Aindra does NOT compare with ACARYA Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura. There is however, this incidence:
68-11-20. Letter: Madhusudana
Regarding your questions, “I read in a book sent from India that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura was sent directly by Lord Sri Caitanya from the spiritual sky. I am not sure if the book was bona fide. Is the above true? Someone, a God-brother brought up that he heard that Srila Bhaktivinode was at one time an impersonalist. Was he ever?” Yes, what you have heard is all right. Just like Arjuna is constant companion of Krishna, as it is confirmed in the 4th chapter, Krishna says that both Arjuna and He appeared many times on this world, but he had forgotten his past appearance and Krishna did not. Krishna is like the sun, and maya is just like darkness. Where Krishna is present there cannot be any darkness of maya. So as Arjuna although always in the presence of Krishna as eternal companion in friendship, still he had some illusion in the battlefield of Kuruksetra, and Krishna had to dissipate that darkness by the teachings of Bhagavad-gita. The purport is, sometimes even a liberated person like Arjuna plays the part of a conditioned soul in order to play some important part. SIMILARLY, BHAKTIVINODE THAKURA FOR SOMETIMES WAS ASSOCIATING WITH THE IMPERSONALISTS. AND THEN HE EXHIBITED HIMSELF IN HIS TRUE COLOR AS PURE DEVOTEE, EXACTLY IN THE SAME WAY AS ARJUNA EXHIBITED IN THE BEGINNING AS A CONDITIONED SOUL, AND THEN AS A LIBERATED SOUL. SO THERE IS NOTHING TO BE MISUNDERSTOOD IN THIS CONNECTION. Krishna and His devotees sometimes play like that, as much as Lord Buddha although an incarnation of Krishna, preached the philosophy of voidism. These things are conducted in terms of place, audience, time, etc. In the Caitanya Caritamrta it is said that the activities of the Vaisnava cannot be understood even by the greatest scholar. So we have to understand everything through the transparent via media of the Spiritual Master. So there is no doubt about it that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura is eternal energy of Lord Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And whatever he did, was just to suit the time, place, circumstances, and etc. There is no contradiction in his activities. Yes, also, what you have learned about Sukadeva is correct. He stayed in the womb of his mother for 16 years because he was fixed on the Brahman conception, and then on hearing the Srimad-Bhagavatam, he became realized and decided to come out and be active in the service of the Lord, to enjoy blissful varieties.
LW :With all due respects, I have to say that I’m very upset to have read parts of this book (as I mentioned on another thread also). In later chapters he (Aindra das) addresses Srimati Radharani as follows:
“Hey Radhe! … After massaging Your delightful figure with exceptionally fragrant seasonal oils and
helping to blissfully shower You ….”
Mahesh: Thank-you VERY MUCH! LW for bringing this up. Just see! ALL this is from Aindra’s association from the SAHAJIYA Narayana Maharaja. Aindra’s beard is REPLICA of Narayana Maharaja this is all DISOBEDIENCE to Srila Prabhupada. It is NOTHING to do with renouncement. It is SAHAJIYA business imported from the association of Narayana Maharaja:
NoI 4
In Bhagavad-gita (2.62) it is stated, sangat sanjayate kamah: ONE’S DESIRES AND AMBITIONS DEVELOP ACCORDING TO THE COMPANY ONE KEEPS.
Note: In that book Aindra says Srila Prabhupada told him to write the book.”After all, Srila Prabhupäda had requested me to write a book.” This is just NONSENSE make-believe LIES.
Aindra was NOT a liberated soul:
WE DON’T ALLOW ANY LITERATURE WHICH IS NOT GIVEN BY LIBERATED SOUL.
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41793#more-41793
The diety of Sri Radha and Sri Krishna are TRANSCENDENTAL NOT MATERIAL.
They are not stone statues but are Radha and Krishna. The undressing and dressing of Radha and Krishna is one of the most intimate of services one can perform because your hands are touching the undressed forms by bathing, applying kunkum, sandal etc. In Vaikuntha this intimate service is performed by the manjari maidservants of Radha and Krishna.
The svarupa of the followers of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is of the highest intensity. This is manifest in the deep feelings of conjugal love experienced by Him. The svarupa of the followers of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is that of manjaris or cowheard boys that is why we are attracted to Lord Chaitanya and not Laxmi Narayana. In Vaikuntha the forms of the Acharyas are principal manjaris. Try to understand this. If the whole point of this movement is not to understand our TRUE natures then what are we doing?
When one dresses Sri Radha it is not like you are CHANGING A TIRE. Prabhupada did not say that Brahmacharies, Sannyasis cannot dress Radharani. This is intimate service in the mood of manjari. Cowherd boys do not dress Radharani try to understand this.
Do not bring your own lusty thoughts and misinterpret some Sahajiya motive. Manjari means highest intimate intensity in the mood of conjugal love of Radha and Krishna. This is the constant mood of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari:
The svarupa of the followers of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is of the highest intensity. This is manifest in the deep feelings of conjugal love experienced by Him. The svarupa of the followers of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is that of manjaris or cowheard boys that is why we are attracted to Lord Chaitanya and not Laxmi Narayana.
Mahesh: FIRST business is PANCARATRIKA-VIDHI. The Sahajiya cheap version of having relationship with Krsna in svarupa and THEN describing Radharani’s transcendental qualties in raga-marga is NOT for PANCARATRIKA-VIDHI. Aindra was WRONG to follow Narayana Maharaja’s SAHAJIYA business. Dressing Radharadhrani PANCARATRIKA-VIDHI and talking about raga-marga – simply BOGUS! Please read:
SB 4.24.45-46 P Chanting the Song Sung by Lord Siva
After the scorching heat of the summer season, it is very pleasing to see dark clouds in the sky. As confirmed in Brahma-samhita: barhavatamsam asitambuda-sundarangam. The Lord wears a peacock feather in His hair, and His bodily complexion is just like a blackish cloud. The word sundara, or snigdha, means “very pleasing.” Kandarpa-koti-kamaniya. Krsna’s beauty is so pleasing that not even millions upon millions of Cupids can compare to it. The Lord’s form as Visnu is decorated in all opulence; therefore Lord Siva is trying to see that most opulent form of Narayana, or Visnu. Generally the worship of the Lord begins with the worship of Narayana, or Visnu, whereas the worship of Lord Krsna and Radha is most confidential. LORD NARAYANA IS WORSHIPABLE BY THE PANCARATRIKA-VIDHI, OR REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES, whereas Lord Krsna is worshipable by the bhagavata-vidhi. NO ONE CAN WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE BHAGAVATA-VIDHI WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE REGULATIONS OF THE PANCARATRIKA-VIDHI. ACTUALLY, NEOPHYTE DEVOTEES WORSHIP THE LORD ACCORDING TO THE PANCARATRIKA-VIDHI, OR THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES ENJOINED IN THE NARADA-PANCARATRA. RADHA-KRSNA CANNOT BE APPROACHED BY THE NEOPHYTE DEVOTEES; THEREFORE TEMPLE WORSHIP ACCORDING TO REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES IS OFFERED TO LAKSMI-NARAYANA. ALTHOUGH THERE MAY BE A RADHA-KRSNA VIGRAHA, OR FORM, THE WORSHIP OF THE NEOPHYTE DEVOTEES IS ACCEPTABLE AS LAKSMI-NARAYANA WORSHIP. WORSHIP ACCORDING TO THE PANCARATRIKA-VIDHI IS CALLED VIDHI-MARGA, and worship according to the bhagavata-vidhi principles is called raga-marga. The principles of raga-marga are especially meant for devotees who are elevated to the Vrndavana platform.
I did not say that Aindra Prabhu was an avadhuta!. I said that he clearly exhibited some avadhuta like qualities.
Note: Avadhuta “SUCH A PERSON HAS ALREADY SURPASSED THE CLUTCHES OF MAYA, AND HE LIVES COMPLETELY SEPARATE AND INDEPENDENT”.
They do not live at ISKCON temples giving classes etc dependent on the nearby folks.
SB 4.29.11 P Talks Between Narada and King Pracinabarhi
THE WORD AVADHUTA MEANS “MOST FREE.” A PERSON IS NOT UNDER THE RULES AND REGULATIONS OF ANY INJUNCTION WHEN HE HAS ATTAINED THE STAGE OF AVADHUTA. IN OTHER WORDS, HE CAN ACT AS HE LIKES. THIS AVADHUTA STAGE IS EXACTLY LIKE AIR, WHICH DOES NOT CARE FOR ANY OBSTRUCTION. In Bhagavad-gita (6.34) it is said:
cancalam hi manah krsna
pramathi balavad drdham
tasyaham nigraham manye
vayor iva suduskaram
SB 4.29.11 P Talks Between Narada and King Pracinabarhi
“The mind is restless, turbulent, obstinate and very strong, O Krsna, and to subdue it is, it seems to me, more difficult than controlling the wind.”
SB 5.5.29 Lord Rsabhadeva’ s Teachings to His Sons
After accepting the feature of avadhuta, a great saintly person without material cares, Lord Rsabhadeva passed through human society like a blind, deaf and dumb man, an idle stone, a ghost or a madman. Although people called Him such names, He remained silent and did not speak to anyone.
PURPORT
The word avadhuta refers to one who does not care for social conventions, particularly the varnasrama-dharma. However, such a person may be situated fully within himself and be satisfied with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, on whom he meditates. In other words, one who has surpassed the rules and regulations of varnasrama-dharma is called avadhuta. SUCH A PERSON HAS ALREADY SURPASSED THE CLUTCHES OF MAYA, AND HE LIVES COMPLETELY SEPARATE AND INDEPENDENT.
Note: No point being sentimental. Aindra Prabhu’s keeping beard influence was mostly likely from Narayana Maharaja:
http://backtobhakti.com/2010/07/sri-aindra-prabhu-departs-from-this-world/
Aindra Prabhu is known as a strong advocate of pure devotion to Krishna in the mood of the residents of Vrindavana and that he held the greatest regard for our Gurudeva, Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja.
Brajanath Prabhu: “He used to come to Srila Gurudeva and confirm his understanding of the process of pure bhakti.”
Dear Mahesh Raja Prabhu
Brajanath Prabhu is simply spruiking the ”message” of Narayana Maharaja, whatever he says is of no importance or relevance.
What is wrong with pure devotion to Krishna in the ‘mood of the residents of Vrindavan’? Isn’t that why devotees go to Vrindavan?
Sudarsana Das Vanacari Prabhu ;
Keeping the following reading from Srila Prabhupada in mind ;
“In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform.”
one must not take advantage of the scriptural incitations to make and validate ones’ very own point of view when that very point falls short. I am referring to the point of comparison in this case Aindra Prabhu to Shri Bhismadeva position as mentioned by Shriman Sudarsana Prabhu in his comments.
For example ; first of all, Aindra Prabhu, had no any authority at all within the GBC or any other management of the Iskcon in which he was situated. Yes, he did speak against the guru system effectively or not within Iskcon did not bear practically any fruit. I see no any practically effective difference of your, mine or any other person’s speaking against these bogus guru.
Was he able to re-unite all of us i.e. the Individuals or different groups of people who are speaking against these bogus gurus ?
The Power of the Purity at the level of the Madhayam Adhikari realization is able to accomplish all that.
I am sorry that my comments are only limitedly critical in the validation of the Madhayam Adhikari realization position of the Aindra Prabhu pronounced by Shriman Sudarsana Prabhu which fell short in the demonstration such power during his life span.
My point of view in the comments are NOT meant to offend any of the readers. In case, if some one feel offended, then, I beg forgiveness from them.
Amar Puri Prabhu.
”Was he able to re-unite all of us i.e. the individuals or different groups of people who are speaking against these bogus gurus”?
”The Power of the Purity at the level of the Madhyam Adhikari realization is able to accomplish all that”.
I don’t know that it is enough to accomplish all that! What is the basis of your statement?
Although I have only read maybe 40 or so pages of his book (this can be downloaded from the web) the impression that I get is very impressive indeed and over time will reveal much as to the enlightened position of this devotee. He also had a great influence with his surrender to the power of the Holy Name and the power of purification that this has upon the heart.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Aindra Prabhu’s book “The Heart of Transcendental Book Distribution” PDF download at http://www.iskcon-truth.com/documents/The_Heart_of_Transcendental_Book_Distribution_Aindra.pdf
Well, I scanned through this document and I don’t want to read any more. Where is the humility of a Vaisnava in these writings? According to him, everyone is superficial, shallow, a pretender, etc., etc., etc., etc. He criticizes just about everyone under the sun right from the get-go — even the gurukulis?
“Let thousands and thousands of cripple-minded griha-medhis and grhasthas with their womenfolk have license for the sordid sex life. Let them beget tens of thousands of grossly misled, druggy, sense-gratifying “ex-gurukulis” ingrates and the likes of them. It is of no earth-shaking consequence.”
This high and mighty attitude laced with flowery words is only so much “meaningless verbiage” (in his own words), as far as I’m concerned. This is not Prabhupada’s way of writing. And he addresses the Lord, “He Radhe Shyama!”, as if he has direct access? Where has Srila Prabhupada instructed us to approach Radha and Krishna directly? By his own admission he had hair “down to his knees” and imbibed copious amounts of drugs himself before joining. What to speak of admitting to seeing and “playing” with ghosts and demons. And like most of us, he was probably a meat-eater too. Now suddenly he sees Krishna and Balarama a week after joining ISKCON (as he says in his interview), and he is speaking of “higher topics” already? He says we are supposed to read all of Prabhupada’s books before reading his book. Oh, so his book is the post-graduate study? He is now above only the ABC’s which Prabhupada gave, as Narayana Swami’s followers claim?
Big words don’t impress me. Every university class has a big know-it-all who has verbal diarrhea and can’t stop spouting off so as to impress everyone, but devotees are supposed to be humble. Even if he did see Krishna and Balarama, he should never reveal it publicly. Srila Prabhupada never said, “I saw Krishna and Balarama” in between waking and sleeping (as he does in his interview with Satyaraj — see link below). Before I came in contact with Srila Prabhupada I was reading Yogananda’s book and he mentions how he looked out the window and saw Krishna waving to him from across the street. Even then I knew it was bogus and threw the book away. Those who see actually see God don’t blab it to anyone and everyone. This seems like a cheap imitation of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati’s style of writing, but I’m afraid he’s way over his head. Sorry, I don’t want anything more to do with this book. I’m sticking with Prabhupada.
http://www.sripadaindradasa.com/lifeinterview.htm
Dear Sudarsana Prabhu,
I don’t know anything about Aindra Prabhu, so after reading your discussion here, I went to the following interview to find out more.
http://www.sripadaindradasa.com/lifeinterview.htm
Please forgive any skepticism on my part as I’m sure Aindra Prabhu is a great soul and wonderful devotee, but considering the endless display of sahajiyism in various forms which we’ve all had to endure (and suffer from) over the years, this interview raised a few questions in my mind. Please have a read and let me know your thoughts, Prabhu.
I also listened to a few of his bhajans, but I’m not at all familiar with his style since I basically only listen to Prabhupada tapes. Where does this style come from, may I ask? I’m not a musician, so it’s hard for me to follow.
Also on the front page of the above website, I don’t see any picture of Srila Prabhupada. I realize that’s the doing of the webmaster and not Aindra Prabhu, but the site would look a lot more bona fide if they had thought to put Srila Prabhupada there too, in my humble opinion.
Anyway, I’m not criticizing – just wondering, that’s all. I respect your opinion and look forward to your feedback. Thank you.
Dear L W Prabhu.
Thank you for the link to the ‘Life Interview’ article and I agree with your valid comment as to why was there no picture of Srila Prabhupada on the web page? I myself also do not know the circumstances but agree that there is possibly some lapse of reasoning with regards to the web page design.
What I found quite surprising in this interview were the similarities of Aindra Prabhu’s life in my own situation as I myself (back in 1981) made a personal vow not to re-marry and almost a decade ago was starting to think the idea attractive again but Krishna saved me. I found the situation incredibly traumatic and an emotional ‘roller-coaster ride’ so eventually came to the conclusion that I was more suited to being single, without being misogynistic.
I also am a musician with an extensive percussion set-up of triple cuban congas, djembe, dumbek, timbales, gongs, electronic drums etc (to numerous to mention) also a sound-proof room for traps (drum kit) and grew up with musicians and bands also.
I know some very famous Australian musicians and have been in bands myself. Like Aindra Prabhu, I used to be a huge fan of Hendrix and used to to take a lot of marijuana (also hashish) and LSD (and other psychotropics such as mushrooms) and attended demonstrations against the War in Vietnam.
I think that Aindra Prabhu’s style of bhajana and kirtana is influenced mainly by Visnujana Maharaja though I myself do not play harmonium (just sticking to drums) can’t be much help I’m afraid.
I am however, left with the impression that he was genuinely a renounced person with a good grasp of Guru Tattva and Vaisnava Philosophy and not some artificial, sleazy, sahajiya-like pretender. I am sure that any further investigation will prove this to be the case. Please forgive the shortness of my response as at the moment I am really pressed for time.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Haribol Sudarsana Prabhu,
Thank you for your reply.. Your points are all well taken. Sometimes we may disagree on certain things, but we can still do so respectfully.
The thing that raised questions in my mind was not the hippie background. Most early devotees come from that group, no problem. Srila Prabhupada said that “hippies are our best customers.” So be it.
This is what I’m referring to – Aindra’s vision after living in the temple for one week:
“Then, I started seeing another dimension, a subtle existence, which was above me. I was lying down on the floor, as all the other brahmacharis were, and I started seeing a sort of multi-dimensional reality; it was like looking at a beautiful painting of some sort – coming to life, moving right in front of me! …
It was a stampede coming from a distance, unclear at first but definitely a stampede. I couldn’t recognize exactly what it was, and I couldn’t recognize what I was hearing, which was happening simultaneously, until it started getting closer and closer. When it did get closer, I started hearing the trampling of feet and hoofs, and ankle-bells, and laughing, and incredible, blissful merriment, and buffalo horn bugles were blowing, too, and flute playing. That was the sound. Boys and cows and all kinds of beings were running and playing. It was intense. And then, as they were getting closer, I could see clearly that they were all running, joyfully running, as if they were running back to Nandagram! And there was Krishna and Balaram – there They were, in the midst of it all.
But they were all running on glass, about maybe four feet above me. This is hard to explain. There was like a plate of glass, see-through, and I was able to watch it through the glass, as they ran above me. I was seeing it clearly as they were coming closer and closer. Then, when they were above me, I was actually seeing the bottoms of their feet, as if they were running on glass. And as they are coming closer and closer, I notice Krishna is playing His flute, and I’m hearing this. Mind you, I was listening to what He was playing, because prior to joining the movement, I also played flute from my earlier days. I learned flute in the high school orchestra and I’d become kind of like a Jethro Tull sort of flautist …”
Later he wants to talk about another vision, but Satyaraja nixes the idea and changes the subject.
OK fine, let’s say that Krishna and Balarama actually appeared to him. Great. However, any such visions should not be discussed publicly, plain and simple. Srila Prabhupada never spoke about seeing Krishna except in a general context that one can see the Lord when one’s eyes are smeared with the ointment of love (as per Brahma-samhita). Or when he answered a reporter who asked if he has seen God. On one occasion Srila Prabhupada asked the reporter if he was prepared for the answer. When the reporter replied affirmatively, Prabhupada replied that he was seeing God at every moment. But that’s a far cry from saying that he saw Krishna and Balarama from underneath a sheet of glass!
BTW, his kirtans don’t sound anything like Vishujana Swami to me, but you’re a musician so you know better than me. I just wonder if there is not some Gaudiya Math influence here, or perhaps some influence from Vrindavan babajis. I never heard Prabhupada chanting in that style.
You can also read about his experiences with ghosts and/or demons, etc. in that interview.
If you read the interview thoroughly and also his book in the light of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and personal example, I think it’s quite reasonable to conclude that this Prabhu is in a little too deep for his own good. Of course, this is just my personal opinion, and everyone must decide for him or her self. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari says: ” I don’t know that it is enough to accomplish all that! What is the basis of your statement?
The base of my statement is described in my earlier comments which read ;
Amar Puri says:
24. November 2015 at 7:30 pm
A Madhyam platform of transcendental realization person is certainly guided by the Super Soul away from all types of material misery as we learn it from the Scripture.
To my understanding, if Sripad Aindra Prabhu is on Madhyam platform of transcendental realization as Sudarsana Das Vanacari described in his comments, then, why was he not guided to avoid such a horrific accident through which he left his body ?
In addition to the above, all of your validations of the description to support your claim of understanding Sripad Aindra Prabhu on the Madhyam platform of transcendental realization fell short as explained in my previous messages.
As I have said in my comments : ” Why one may accept Sripad Aindra Prabhu on Madhyam platform of transcendental realization and other may not is simply the individual choice based on ones sentiments.”
That is how it turns out to be.
Note: Basically – Aindra is USING Srila Prabhupada as tool to boost HIS OWN POSITION. He writes “fake it till you make it” :
Aindra(in his book): It would serve us well to remember that our guru-mahäräja, Srila
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupäda, after having spent nine
preparatory years in Vrndävana, went out to benefit the people
of the western world as a fully self-realized spiritual master; not
as a “fake it till you make it” relatively unimpressive, struggling
neophytic, superficially polished cyber-preacher, having little if
any actual cognition, by way of divine revelation, as to the details
regarding his highest potential vraja-svarüpa.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: It ironic that conditioned soul Aindra wants to “fake it till you make it”. WHY PRETEND to be renounced, detached, liberated with superficial beard imported from sahajiya Narayana Maharaja? He thinks he is fit to write about transcendental topics on Radharani. This is just NONSENSE! Srila Bhaktisiddhanta sarasvati Thakura wanted to publish GOVINDA-LILAMRTA. But EVEN such a GREAT POWERFUL personality WAS REFUSED for distributing to others. He was allowed to print ONLY ONE copy—ONLY FOR HIMSELF. That’s it! And—– Aindra writes on Radharani…..Just see! This is called SAHAJIYA.
760816rc.bom Conversations
Vairagya is to be practiced, but bhakti is so strong, kecit kevalaya bhaktya, simply by bhakti, vasudeva-parayana. Vairagya immediately comes. Agham dhunvanti kartsnyena niharam iva bhaskarah. If actually one is pure bhakta, then everything material finished. That is real bhakta. Now I have got some bhakti and some material desire also. That is not bhakti. That is markata-vairagya. That does not mean that I shall stop bhakti. No, you take bhakti to the principle, to the regulative principle, then automatically vairagya will come. The vairagya is not coming, that means you have not been a pure bhakta. That is adulteration. Anyabhilasita-sunyam. That is bhakti. And because there is not anyabhilasita-sunyam, it is adulterated.
Dr. Patel: Bhakti-avyabhicarini.
Prabhupada: Avyabhicarini, yes. Mam ca yo ‘vyabhicarena bhakti-yogena sevate. Avyabhicarena. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate. He is above three gunas. So if I am still under the modes of material nature, that means I’m not in avyabhicarini-bhakti. This is the warning. Therefore Lord Buddha rejected Vedas.
Dr. Patel: Because, sir, in the name of Veda people were misbehaving.
Prabhupada: Vedas, when Lord Buddha wanted stop animal killing, these rascals came with Vedas. “Vedas there is sacrifice, there is animal killing.” So he thought that these rascals will create botheration. By bringing Vedas, there is… He said, “I don’t care for it.”
veda na maniya bauddha haya ta nastika
vedasraya nastikya-vada bauddhake adhika
Similarly, these rascals are giving evidence of Rupa Gosvami’s advice, that “Here is Radha-kunda…” But whether you have followed other things.
Guest: Vaco vegam manasah…
Prabhupada: Yes. Vaco vegam manasah krodha-vegam, prthivim sa sisyat. Etan vegan yo visa… You are manipulated by the udara-vegam, upastha-vegam. FIRST THERE IS TEST: ETAN VEGAN YO VISAHETA DHIRAH. THEN FOR HIM RADHA-KUNDA. DHIRAS TATRA NA MUHYATI. HE HAS GOT THREE DOZEN SEVA-DASI, AND LIVING IN RADHA-KUNDA. MY GURU MAHARAJA WANTED TO PUBLISH GOVINDA-LILAMRTA. HE ASKED PERMISSION OF BHAKTIVINODA THAKURA. SO FIRST OF ALL BHAKTIVINODA THAKURA, “I’LL TELL YOU SOME DAY.” AND WHEN HE REMINDED, HE SAID, “YES YOU CAN PRINT ONE COPY. IF YOU ARE SO MUCH ANXIOUS TO PRINT IT, PRINT ONE COPY. YOU’LL READ AND YOU WILL SEE THAT YOU HAVE PRINTED. NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION.” So we are printing all these books for understanding properly. Not that “Here is Radha-kunda. Let us go.” Jump over like monkey. “Here is rasa-lila. Immediately…”
Acyutananda: Even in Krsna book rasa-lila should not be told in public.
Prabhupada: No, why? Krsna book must be there, in the book must be there.
Acyutananda: But in public…
Prabhupada: But you should go gradually. You should go gradually. You first of all understand Krsna, then krsna-lila. If you have not understood Krsna, then you’ll think Krsna’s rasa-lila is just like we mix with young women. And that becomes as polluted. Because they do not understand Krsna. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye yatatam api siddhanam. Krsna understanding so easy? If you do not understand Krsna how can you go to the Krsna’s confidential activities?
Acyutananda: Some of the devotees, they said that it is for liberated souls. So they said, “Well, we are all liberated.”
Prabhupada: Yes. Liberated for going to hell.
I think you are misunderstanding the “fake it till you make it” quote made by Aindra Prabhu as he is refering here to the bogus guru system of FISKCON. I also don’t follow your ranting attack-dog style which you are now adopting in relation to Aindra Prabhu. It smells of desparation and a lack of understanding and realization.
Sudarsana Prabhu,
I’m not attacking Aindra das. I have nothing against the man personally. As mentioned, I’m sure he was a nice devotee. I don’t mean to disparage his service or attachment to chanting Hare Krishna. But in the conditioned state we all make mistakes. Only a pure devotee (who is very, very rare) is perfect. So I just think that Aindra das was somehow misled and therefore misleading in his attempts to represent Srila Prabhupada. Surely he could rectify that, but he left behind a book which new devotees are reading and venerating and which does not reflect Srila Prabhupada’s teachings as he revealed them to us, his followers and disciples. Another group can do whatever they want, but Prabhupada was very strict about these kind of things within his ISKCON. No offence intended to you or Aindra das, but it appears to me that he was going a little too fast from Hendrix to the gopis in what, 20 years? Srila Prabhupada said that Krishna consciousness is a gradual process. It may take many lifetimes — it probably will. Slow and steady wins the race. What’s the big hurry to jump ahead prematurely when the fruit of love of Godhead has not yet fully ripened? Just a thought for your consideration. Haribol.
LW: No offence intended to you or Aindra das, but it appears to me that he was going a little too fast from Hendrix to the gopis in what, 20 years? Srila Prabhupada said that Krishna consciousness is a gradual process. It may take many lifetimes — it probably will. Slow and steady wins the race. What’s the big hurry to jump ahead prematurely when the fruit of love of Godhead has not yet fully ripened? Just a thought for your consideration. Haribol.
Mahesh:LW Prabhu has a good mild way of conveying the message. Sudarsana das Prabhu obviously is upset with me:
” I also don’t follow your ranting attack-dog style which you are now adopting in relation to Aindra Prabhu.”
Sudarsana Prabhu, No offence to you or Aindra Prabhu. He was a VICTIM of Narayana Maharaja. I just attacked the BOGUS philosophy aspect he came out with: his Narayana Maharaja Replica Beard and Raga Marga Srimati Radharani worship in his CONDITIONED state. But because you have got SENTIMENTAL attachment for him and his BOGUS philosophy you are hurt and say,
“As for It smells of desparation and a lack of understanding and realization.”
So— Prabhu please excuse my “ranting attack-dog style”. It is my way of ACTUALLY telling you TRUTH:
760217SB.MAY Lectures
Therefore when we say that a man who is not Krsna conscious, he is naradhamah, mudhah, that is a fact. BUT THE WORLD IS SUCH THAT SATYAM BRUYAT PRIYAM BRUYAT MA BRUYAT SATYAM APRIYAM. THEY WANT IF YOU CAN SAY THE TRUTH, BUT DON’T SAY THE UNPALATABLE TRUTH. BUT THAT IS SOCIAL ETIQUETTE. WHEN YOU SPEAK ABOUT SPIRITUAL LIFE THERE IS NO SUCH SCOPE. YOU MUST SPEAK THE TRUTH: “Yes, you are rascal. Because you are not Krsna conscious: rascal, mudha. You are sinful. You are lowest of the mankind.” Krsna says. Krsna says, na mam duskrtino mudhah.
But as LW Prabhu pointed out “Srila Prabhupada said that Krishna consciousness is a gradual process. It may take many lifetimes — it probably will”
So look at it again, does this look like “lack of understanding and realization” :
SB 3.15.24 P Description of the Kingdom of God
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO GO BACK TO GODHEAD IN ONE LIFE, BUT IN THE HUMAN FORM ONE SHOULD AT LEAST UNDERSTAND THE GOAL OF LIFE AND BEGIN KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. It is said that the human form is a great boon because it is the most suitable boat for crossing over the nescience ocean. The spiritual master is considered to be the most able captain in that boat, and the information from the scriptures is the favorable wind for floating over the ocean of nescience. The human being who does not take advantage of all these facilities in this life is committing suicide. Therefore one who does not begin Krsna consciousness in the human form of life loses his life to the influence of the illusory energy. Brahma regrets the situation of such a human being.
Note: Srila Prabhupada is guiding us LIFE AFTER LIFE on our journey back home Back To Godhead:
60805BG.PAR Lectures
Devotee: If we don’t finish our Krsna consciousness in this life, how we come in contact with the guru in next life?
Prabhupada: Yes, that arrangement will be done, you go on with your business. We are singing this song daily. Why do you forget? Cakhu-dan dilo jei JANME JANME PRABHU SEI. ONE WHO HAS OPENED THE EYES, HE’LL REMAIN MY MASTER LIFE AFTER LIFE.
740302mw.may Conversations
Bhavananda: spiritual master. Then when he reaches a certain point, he lets go. What is? What becomes of Him? He is also Mayavadi.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is Mayavadi philosophy. (break) philosophy, cakhudana dilo yei janme JANME PRABHU SEI. NAROTTAMA DASA THAKURA SINGS THAT, “ONE WHO HAS OPENED MY EYES, MY SPIRITUAL MASTER, HE’S MY FATHER, LIFE AFTER LIFE.” SO HOW HE CAN, HE CAN SAY, “GO AWAY NOW”? THAT IS MAYAVADA PHILOSOPHY.
Note: we have as YET—– to REALIZE the Paramatma feature THEN Bhagavan VASUDEVA feature:
TLC 1 Teachings to Rupa Gosvami
Active interest in Krsna–the understanding that Krsna is mine or that I am Krsna’s, and that therefore my business is to satisfy the senses of Krsna–is typical of a higher stage than the neutrality of the santa-rasa. Simply by understanding the greatness of Krsna, one can achieve the status of santa-rasa, in which the worshipable object may be the impersonal Brahman or Paramatma. Worship of the impersonal Brahman and the Paramatma is conducted by those engaged in empiric philosophical speculation and mystic yoga. However, when one develops even further in Krsna consciousness, or spiritual understanding, he can appreciate that the Paramatma, the Supersoul, is the eternal worshipable object, and he surrenders unto Him. BAHUNAM JANMANAM ANTE JNANAVAN MAM PRAPADYATE (BG. 7.19): “AFTER MANY, MANY BIRTHS OF WORSHIPING BRAHMAN AND PARAMATMA, WHEN ONE SURRENDERS UNTO VASUDEVA AS THE SUPREME MASTER AND ACCEPTS HIMSELF AS THE ETERNAL SERVITOR OF VASUDEVA, HE BECOMES A GREAT TRANSCENDENTALLY REALIZED SOUL.” At that time, due to his thick and thin relationship with the Supreme Absolute Truth, one begins to render some sort of transcendental loving service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Thus the neutral relationship known as santa-rasa is transformed into dasya-rasa, servitorship.
730907SB.STO Lectures
So, these things cannot be understood by the materialistic person. Therefore, one has to practice vairagya, renunciation. That is pointed out here. Bhagavata upasanam upadeksyamana vairagyam vina upadisto ‘pi bhakti-yoga na samyag pratitisthati iti. Side by side we have to practice, voluntarily, to be detached from material activities. Then we can make progress in devotional service. Tad utpataya kaman mindati. This is our voluntary work. If we want to be detached… Because Krsna is so kind, IF YOU HAVE GOT EVEN A LITTLE PINCH OF ATTACHMENT FOR THIS MATERIAL WORLD, YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
721125BG.HYD Lectures
So if I am not liberated, if, if I have got so many plans to execute in this material world, then I’ll have to accept another body. But if you have no more plan, no more plan, niskincana… That is called niskincana. Niskincanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, niskincana. One has to be completely freedom, completely freedom about this material world. ONE SHOULD BE DISGUSTED. THEN THERE IS POSSIBILITY OF BEING TRANSFERRED TO THE SPIRITUAL WORLD. SO LONG ONE HAS GOT A PINCH OF DESIRE THAT “IF I WOULD HAVE BECOME LIKE BRAHMA, OR LIKE KING, LIKE JAWAHARLAL NEHRU,” THEN I’LL HAVE TO ACCEPT A BODY. This desire. Krsna is so liberal, so kind. Whatever we want–ye yatha mam prapadyante–Krsna will give you
661206BG.NY Lectures
Gatagatam kama-kama labhante. Kama-kamah means sense gratification. Sense gratification. But transcendentalists, they have understood that “This sense gratification process will not help me.” This is called Krsna consciousness. One must understand perfectly well that this process of sense gratification, variyagasan, that will not help me. He is very intelligent. I will have to search out something else, not this sense gratification. SO LONG I HAVE GOT A PINCH OF DESIRE FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION, I WILL HAVE TO TAKE THIS MATERIAL BODY.
750208BG.HAW Lectures
So last night we discussed about the demons’ thinking. Asa-pasa-satair baddhah. He does not know “So long I shall be aspiring more and more, I am getting entangled more and more within this material world. Because Krsna is so kind, he has given me freedom to enjoy this material world, but according to my work, I am becoming implicated. SO LONG I’LL HAVE A PINCH OF DESIRE FOR ENJOYING THIS MATERIAL WORLD, I’LL HAVE TO ACCEPT A TYPICAL BODY.” THIS IS THE LAW OF NATURE. When you’ll actually be free from all material desires, then it is called mukti, mukti, liberation. That is liberation. So that standard of mukti, mukti standard or mukti platform, is bhakti-yoga.
720625SB.LA Lectures
Upon this mind, intelligence and ego, one develops a gross body of five elements: earth, water, air, fire. This is the two kinds of body, a condition. And when he’s actually Krsna conscious, he’s transcendental to this gross and subtle body. He attains a spiritual body which is never to be finished, eternal, blissful life. So sometimes, when Krsna, He’s especially kind to a person who thinks that “By… I shall execute Krsna consciousness; at the same time, I shall enjoy this material life,” this is foolishness. This is foolishness. If you want Krsna, go to home, back to home, back to Godhead, then you have to finish your material desires. BECAUSE KRSNA IS SO KIND THAT EVEN IF YOU HAVE A PINCH OF MATERIAL DESIRE TO ENJOY IN THIS MATERIAL WORLD, HE WILL GIVE YOU A CHANCE, “ALL RIGHT, YOU DO IT.” THAT MEANS WE BECOME ENTANGLED. THEREFORE, THOSE WHO ARE EXECUTING KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS, THEY SHOULD TRY TO BECOME FREE FROM ALL MATERIAL DESIRES. ANYABHILASITA-SUNYAM JNANA-KARMADY-ANAVRTAM.
720427SB.TOK Lectures
“Simply I may remain a faithful devotee of Your…” That’s all, without any reason, without any cause, causeless. This should be our vow. If we, taking to Krsna consciousness, if we want to make some material asset, then we are cutting our throat, suicidal. The only prayer should be how to remain a pure devotee. If we remain a pure devotee, there is chance. Anyabhilasita-sunyam. Because Krsna, He is so kind, at the same time so strict also. Strict. IF YOU HAVE GOT A PINCH OF MATERIAL DESIRE, YOU CANNOT GO TO VAIKUNTHA. YOU CANNOT GO. THEREFORE NISKINCANANAM. YOU HAVE TO BECOME COMPLETELY NISKINCANA, NOTHING WANTED OF THIS MATERIAL WORLD. THAT IS CALLED TAPASYA.
770214ro.may Conversations
Prabhupada: … THIS MATERIAL WORLD MEANS SO LONG WE’LL HAVE A PINCH OF MATERIAL DESIRE, WE’LL HAVE TO TAKE BIRTH. KRSNA WILL GIVE US FULL FACILITY TO SATISFY OUR SENSES IN VARIOUS WAYS. YE YATHA MAM PRAPADYANTE TAMS TATHAIVA BHAJAMY AHAM. FULL FACILITIES. “ENJOY.
Dear Mahesh Raja Prabhu.
Please forgive me for the ”ranting attack-dog style” accusation leveled at your comments. I am very appreciative of all the comments made by all the devotees with regards to Aindra Prabhu.
As I mentioned before I have never met Aindra prabhu and have only read the first section of his book which seemed to be a fair critique of the institutional dynamic of ISKCON.
The writings contained in the latter part of the book mentioned by L W Prabhu were a bit of a shock to me also as I was not aware that this kind of ‘flight of fancy’ was part of the books substance. Upon reflection I may now only ‘skim through’ the rest of book just to satisfy my curiosity.
As I mentioned before I am no expert on the subject of Diety Worship (although I have dressed Radha Krishna dieties many times mainly in Auckland New Zealand) and agree with the point you make with regarding Srila Prabhupada’s direction that They are to be worshiped in the mood of Laxmi Narayana.
There is a saying ”The enemy of your enemy isn’t necessarily your friend” and in this instance I may of ‘misread the situation’ myself and the position of Aindra Prabhu due to my tendency of ”sticking up for the underdog” My understanding of Aindra Prabhu has taken a shift due to the contributions of yourself and all the other devotees on this forum which is a most valuable way of sharing knowledge between devotees who are dedicated to Srila Prabhupada’s message.
I do not wish to be seen as a ”supporter” and broadcaster of Aindra Prabhu’s message or to validate his position as I see the position of Srila Prabhupada as paramount though I do accept that Aindra Prabhu does make some valid comments. I only wish to see everything in the light of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and anything contrary to this is to be rejected or this would be cheating.
I thank all the devotees for all their sincere comments which have contributed greatly in shining a light on this topic, this is the greatest example of good, vaisnava association in the service of Srila Prabhupada. Please forgive me if I made comments which were misleading due to my poor fund of knowledge.
Your humble servant
Sudarsana
Sudarsana Das Vanacari Prabhu thank-you very much! – for the nice discussion. I am sure many SINCERE devotees will be reading these and trying to put Srila Prabhupada’s instructions in their own lives. Anidra Prabhu had some good intentions like speaking against the bogus ISKCON “gurus” and for that no doubt Krsna will give him some good place to continue his Bhakti from where he left off. Everyone has got some fault – this is why we are all in this material world. I am no exception. We have to put Srila Prabhupada UNCONDITIONALLY FIRST if we want to progress. I realized this many years ago. This is why I do not read books by anybody else -except- Srila Prabhupada. And I stick to ORIGINAL Srila Prabhupada books ONLY. Books NOT manipulated by Jayadvaita and company. Basically – others books they screw you up. Some “devotees” have written many nonsense books (MIS)interpretations on the Previous Acaryas like Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura etc with an agenda of their OWN. Others books I just do a quick scan – just to see what they have said about Srila Prabhupada. Or some realizations they have on Srila Prabhupada’s books. Mostly I just tend to hear Srila Prabhupada’s Mp3, Tapes over and over and over – gone thru many times. And still continue. THIS is—– REAL HAPPINESS!
My humble suggestion is please ONLY stick to Srila Prabhupada’s books Tapes, Mp3s – this is the ONLY thing that you will ever NEED. Our life is short and we have gone past 50’s. WHO wants to waste valuable time with others opinions! In this life we have got Srila Prabhupada THE GURU. We do NOT need anybody else for opinions. You will see that NOT everyone wants Srila Prabhupada means they are SO UNFORTUNATE. They want some cheaters. Krsna give them cheaters so they become cheated. What an incredible WASTE of human form of life after going thru 8,400,000 species of life —and wandering in so many different planets in the material world. So those who have ACCEPTED Srila Prabhupada as our ONLY Diksa and Siksa guru are VERY VERY VERY FORTUNATE:
721029ND.VRN Lectures
We are wandering in different species of life in different planets. Brahmanda bhramite KONO BHAGYAVAN JIVA. NOT ALL, fortunate. ONE MUST BE VERY MUCH FORTUNATE TO COME IN CONTACT WITH KRSNA AND GURU. So how that fortunate becomes possible? It is called ajnata-sukrti. Sukrti and duskrti, these two words are used in Bhagavad-gita. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah. There is the word, duskrti. And sukrti. Catur-vidha bhajanti mam sukrti ‘rjuna. So this sukrti, this fortune, there is a chance which is called ajnata-sukrti. Ajnata-sukrti means just like Krsna’s representative is preaching all over the world, and if somebody comes in contact with that representative of Krsna, and satisfies him, he acquires some ajnata-sukrti. This is called ajnata-sukrti. He does not know what spiritual benefit he’s achieving by serving the representative of Krsna. He does not know. But he acquires it imperceptibly. This is called ajnata-sukrti. So when ajnata-sukrti is accumulated, then he becomes fortunate. That is called kono bhagyavan jiva.
710721SB.NY Lectures
So here Pariksit Maharaja is asking, adhuna, now, iha maha-bhaga. A Vaisnava is addressed as maha-bhaga. Bhaga means fortunate. One who becomes Vaisnava, God conscious, he is to be understood as great fortunate. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, therefore, has said that ei rupe brahmanda kono bhagyavan jiva, guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija. The living entities are rotating in different species of life, in different planetary system, all over the universe, brahmanda. Means a living entity can go anywhere, hell, heaven, as he likes, as he prepares himself. So there are many heavenly planets, many hellish planets, many species of life, not only planets. This is varieties, 8,400,000 species of life. So a living entity is rotating, wandering. According to the type of mentality he’s creating in the present life, he’s getting next life similar body. “As you sow, so you reap.” This is going on. So therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, ei rupe brahmanda brahmite. The living entity is rotating. Out of them… Millions, numberless living entities are rotating. OUT OF THEM, ONE WHO IS FORTUNATE… EI RUPE BRAHMANDA BHRAMITE KONO BHAGA… KONO, NOT ALL. If all would have been so fortunate, everyone would have taken to this Krsna consciousness. It is being distributed freely everywhere. But why they are not taking to it? Because unfortunate. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, kono bhagyavan jiva: “Only one who is fortunate.”
Note: these discussions are very VALUABLE for ALL they STRENGTH THE MIND:
76-09-22. Letter: Ayodhyapati
Your siddhanta is correct to the sastra and in this way go on reading books and have the correct perception and Krsna will help you. SIDDHANTA BALIYA CITTE NA KARA ALASA IHA HAITE KRSNA LAGE SUDRDHA MANASA. A SINCERE STUDENT SHOULD NOT NEGLECT THE DISCUSSION OF SUCH CONCLUSIONS, CONSIDERING THEM CONTROVERSIAL, FOR SUCH DISCUSSIONS SRENGTHEN THE MIND. THUS ONE’S MIND BECOMES ATTACHED TO SRI KRSNA.
YOU SHOULD BE ALWAYS ALERT IN UNDERSTANDING THE SASTRIC CONCLUSIONS THAT WILL HELP YOU, OTHERWISE WE CAN BE MISLED BY BOGUS PHILOSOPHIES. I am very pleased that you are studying the books. This will make you happy and successful.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ps. Anyone here wanting to get Srila Prabhupada’s mp3s:
https://krishnastore.co.uk/audio-mp3-cds-om-45_47.html
So— Sudarsana Das Vanacari Prabhu – just to say VERY glad to have you back here in the discussions again!
Jai Srila Prabhupada
Hare Krsna!
Srila Prabhupada summarized the Tenth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam in the Krishna Book. We do not find any descriptions there that comes close to the kind of intimate talk which we read in Aindra’s book (see below). Even the paintings of Radha and Krishna in Srila Prabhupada’s books are chaste, unlike those of other artists who often depict Radharani with disheveled and revealing clothes. This is the standard set by the Founder-Acarya of ISKCON. We are not allowed to change that (“our Western disease” as Prabhupada called it), neither are we permitted to introduce anything “non-Prabhupada” into his movement. It’s evident to me that Aindra das has overstepped his position as a disciple of Srila Prabhupada by not respecting Prabhupada’s wishes in this regard. Not only that, but he influenced a lot of young and inexperienced devotees who visited Vrindavan for his association over the years. In my view, he was not helping them spiritually by doing so. Srila Prabhupada said, “Work now, Samadhi later.” He did not want neophytes “jumping to the Tenth Canto” and prematurely discussing the intimate pastimes of Sri Sri Radha and Krishna. It is not such a cheap thing. Therefore I think that Aindra das has been influenced by some outside person or group which is “non-Prabhupada” in nature. Everyone must decide for him or her self, but buyer beware.
Aindra das: “He Rädhe Syäma! … Sometimes I will sweep Your pastime-cottage with my long curly locks of hair. Sometimes I will massage Your exquisitely beautiful limbs with fragrant oils, bathe You, dress You in splendid garments, and decorate You with incomparably charming flower ornaments made by me and one or two of my friends, just to see them become mercilessly mutilated by Your reckless ravaging love play. Sometimes I will blissfully offer You varieties of intoxicating honey wine to initiate the jubilation of a million cupids. You will reciprocate by forcibly inducing me to drink as well, after which I will not be able to clearly articulate what Cupid did or did not do to me to enhance the munificent expansion of Your pleasure pastimes …
O He Rädhe! When, in Your assembly of sakhis, will I get the chance to see, with my own blooming eyes, incomparably lovely Lalitä Sundari forcing her way between me and Lord Syäma while endlessly rebuking Him with the most outrageous, audaciously sarcastic criticisms to prevent Him from capriciously ripping at my upper garments? … And when, in Your smiling presence, by Your incomprehensible kindness, will I ever whisper into His ear, “I love You too!” as Your enchanted, whimsical Syäma, knowing me to be Yours,
passionately embraces me to His heart?… My two virtuous, budding raised breasts will shamelessly yearn to become a host of freshly blossomed saffron-pollen-besprinkled, honey-laden golden lotus flowers to enrapture His intoxicated-bumblebee-like heroically roaming eyes! My hands will want to expand by the trillions to check His persistent whimsical pinching! My horripilating thighs will urgently require quadrillions of empathetic reinforcements to sustain my all-but-swooning everything!”
WOW …………. LW Prabhu, what you have quoted from Aindra das in your comments, does that writing come from the Book written by Aindra das ?
If it is his writing, then, it appears that Aindra das was heavily influenced by the Shahajiaism.
Mind you, I respect Sudarsana dasa Prabhu because he seems to be honest in his writing.
Sudarsana dasa believes and accepts Sripad Aindra Prabhu on Madhyam platform of transcendental realization which he tried his level best to present and prove the validation as such from not only his point view but using the comparison of the famous personality from the Scriptural example also to convince the READERS. His over all attempt falls short in all respect to establish his validation he accepts and believes in the personality of Aindra dasa as such which simply proves that that is the individual choice based on his personal sentiments.
I can imagine how many people are misled upon reading Aindra dasa book for which he worked so hard for it.
That is MAYA indeed.
Yes Amar Puri Prabhu, the quotes are from Aindra’s book. It’s unfortunate that he decided to print those things because Srila Prabhupada would never tolerate that for a second.
One time in Vrindavan an ISKCON temple president who was a big, big musician before joining the movement started to lead the guru-puja for Srila Prabhupada in the temple room. He began playing very fancy drumbeats and sang in some obscure Bengali or Vrindavan babaji style which Srila Prabhupada had never introduced or sanctioned in his society. Prabhupada was trying to play karatals along with the complicated beat, but it was obvious that it simply disturbed Srila Prabhupada’s meditation. So Prabhupada abruptly raised his hand and stopped the kirtan – instead choosing a simple devotee who sang a simple, standard tune. This devotee was off-key and not very professional, but Prabhupada liked his kirtan nonetheless. The big, big musician devotee went red-faced in embarrassment. Srila Prabhupada was not impressed with his fancy playing. Not long afterwards that devotee blooped and went back to playing rock ‘n’ roll and acquiring many girlfriends.
The point is that Srila Prabhupada worked very, very hard to establish the Sri Krishna-Balarama Mandir in Sri Vrindavan-dhama. He did not want any bogus or sahajiya influence there so as to distinguish his temple from other compromised temples. Anyone who resides on Krishna-Balarama’s property must be very strict and responsible in maintaining Srila Prabhupada’s standards there. Prabhupada introduced his program with a morning tune for mangal arotika.etc. He was not happy when devotees changed his formula or program. A faithful servant tries to serve the master according to the master’s desires and not what he himself may like or want. There is no question at all that Prabhupada would never ever sanction the statements and speculations in Aindra’s book. He made a big mistake there and I’m just trying to warn others to be careful. You can’t play around with Radha and Krishna, especially in Vrindavan-dhama – and especially in Prabhupada’s home temple. “Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.” Offenses committed in the holy dhama are much more serious than anywhere else. Aindra Prabhu was really walking on thin ice when he started writing such things there about Srimati Radharani. That’s a big no no, I’m afraid. Anyway, God bless him.
Yes, I like and respect Sudarsana Prabhu as well. These are only my opinions and Sudarasana Prabhu is always most welcome to share his own too. Forgive me, please, for any offenses committed here. I’m just trying to render a little service for everyone’s benefit. Thank you for listening. Haribol
Thanks LW Prabhu. I never read the book in question and after your excerpt quoted here, thankfully I never will.
This smacks of the same maya influencing Sivarama ‘swami’ in his sahajiya book ‘Suddha Bhakti Cintamani’, which (surprise surprise) was even denounced by the bogus FISKCON GBC! also read chapter 4 of “100 Deviations… Sivarama swami” by Krsna Kant Desai and you will see that this massive sahajiya influence is coming from Narayana, as usual!
He was so envious of Srila Prabhupada that he refused the personal invitation carried by BP Puri Maharaja to attend the ground breaking of Mayapur Mandir, where Srila Prabhupada personally served prasadam to his attending godbrothers. (see interview with BP Puri Maharaja)
Srila Prabhupada SAYS..
“The wonderful characteristics of the gopis are beyond imagination” …Sri CC Adi-lila, 4. 187, purport.
“One who follows his imaginations about the Supreme Personality of Godhead is condemned” ..
SB 10.3.32 purport.
“We are not fiction writers”. Srila Prabhupad letter, 18/1/1976
“Without coming to the perfectional stage, if anyone tries to understand the gopis he becomes a sahajiya..
Srila Prabhupada letter, 14/12/1972.
“Here in Los Angeles, we have found that there is a group of about 40 devotees who privately meet to discuss the intimate pastimes artificially thinking that they can enter into the understanding of the gopis prematurely. This will create havoc in our society, and the result will be that if this is allowed to go on, our preaching work will be greatly hampered” .. Srila Prabhupada letter, to Nitai, Los Angeles 7 June 1976.
Srila Prabhupada said everything is in, and is answered in his transcendental literatures, hence the need to protect them from the envious, unscupulous ‘bookchangers’.
Yhs,
Balaram das.
Thank you, Balarama Prabhu. Actually I’m sorry about having to say the things I did, but what to do? We can’t be sentimental. Prabhupada makes the rules.
Speaking of Sivarama, listen to how fearful he’s become of losing his disciples to “the evil ritviks,” i.e. his money collectors who support his lavish lifestyle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2EvdINbfMw
The truth is closing in on him, so what to do? Lie, lie, lie some more (as usual). The squeeze is on. Srila Prabhupada will never be defeated – Krishna will see to that. “Declare it boldly, O Arjuna, that My devotee will never perish.”
Thanks for the nice quotes. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Sorry, the following sentence should have read:
Speaking of Sivarama, listen to how fearful he’s become of losing his disciples (i.e. his money collectors who support his lavish lifestyle) to “the evil ritviks.”
Note: Coming to the Transcendental Platform is NOT SO CHEAP. It is much much much MORE then growing Narayana Maharaja Replica Beard and sitting down writing Radharanis pastimes. It is about CONQUERING the senses. AUSTERITY. This is why our senses are REGULATED by FASTING on ekadasis WITHOUT WATER if can be done. “AND IF NOTHING WAS SUPPLIED SHE WOULD FAST”. It is NOT so CHEAP to come to RAGA-MARG.
The prostitute CONQUERED her senses AND THEN SYMPTOMS OF LOVE OF GODHEAD APPEARED IN HER PERSON:
Antya 3.141 The Glories of Srila Haridasa Thakura
She worshiped the tulasi plant, following in the footsteps of her spiritual master. Instead of eating regularly, she chewed whatever food she received as alms, AND IF NOTHING WAS SUPPLIED SHE WOULD FAST. THUS BY EATING FRUGALLY AND FASTING SHE CONQUERED HER SENSES, AND AS SOON AS HER SENSES WERE CONTROLLED, SYMPTOMS OF LOVE OF GODHEAD APPEARED IN HER PERSON.
Note: Want to talk with Paramatma? —–then CONQUER your senses. It is NOT by growing Narayana Maharaja Replica beard and writing on Radharanis Pastimes:
Bg 6.7 T Sankhya-yoga
jitatmanah prasantasya
paramatma samahitah
sitosna-sukha-duhkhesu
tatha manapamanayoh
SYNONYMS
jita-atmanah–of one who has conquered his mind; prasantasya–of who has attained tranquility by such control over the mind; parama-atma–the Supersoul; samahitah–approached completely; sita–cold; usna–heat; sukha–in happiness; duhkhesu–in distress; tatha–also; mana–honor; apamanayoh–and dishonor.
TRANSLATION
FOR ONE WHO HAS CONQUERED THE MIND, THE SUPERSOUL IS ALREADY REACHED, FOR HE HAS ATTAINED TRANQUILITY. TO SUCH A MAN HAPPINESS AND DISTRESS, HEAT AND COLD, HONOR AND DISHONOR ARE ALL THE SAME.
PURPORT
Actually, every living entity is intended to abide by the dictation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is seated in everyone’s heart as Paramatma. When the mind is misled by the external illusory energy, one becomes entangled in material activities. Therefore, as soon as one’s mind is controlled through one of the yoga systems, one is to be considered as having already reached the destination. One has to abide by superior dictation. When one’s mind is fixed on the superior nature, he has no other alternative but to follow the dictation of the Supreme. The mind must admit some superior dictation and follow it. The effect of controlling the mind is that one automatically follows the dictation of the Paramatma or Supersoul. Because this transcendental position is at once achieved by one who is in Krsna consciousness, the devotee of the Lord is unaffected by the dualities of material existence, namely distress and happiness, cold and heat, etc. This state is practical samadhi, or absorption in the Supreme.
Prabhupada said ” you are all kanishtas” The various stages of advancement are there so one can by his actions and characteristics be placed on the platform of that particular level. When we went out on Sankirtan all day long,we had to deal with different types of persons. At the temple we associated with devotees on the same level,and at occasions we were respectful to senior devotees (in knowledge) ,we helped the new devotees to get them to speed of what we already knew and on thew streets we pass on books to favorable people and avoided the envious and demoniac. It is a huge difference between the Achaya coming down on the Madhyam platform in order to preach, than we ourselves coming up to the level of a Madhyam by practical deeds. The bridge to cross from the conditioned to the liberated is not determined by artificial levels but by true devotional standard of loving disposition to Krsna.
There is pure devotional service and there is devotional service with purity in purpose. The “normal conditioned soul” is a kind of pure devotee and the pure devotee in qualification and complete definition is that liberated and fully Krsna conscious devotee.
The prerequisite for reading other devotees realizations is a good and thoroughly digesting and understanding prabhupada’s books first so we can have an introduced impression of the spiritual master’s opinions on everything related to the dues and don’ts of our process. Without that anticipation,everything people do and write will be new to us and it will require a rushed familiarization with our Acharya’s ways.
His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada explains in the Adi Lala 4.108 Purport ;
Those under the shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu can understand that His mode of worship of the Supreme Lord Krishna in separation is the real worship of the Lord. When the feelings of separation become very intense, one attains the stage of meeting Sri Krishna. So-called devotees cheaply imagine they are meeting Krishna in Vrindavana. Such thinking may be useful, but actually meeting Krishna is possible through the attitude of separation taught by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
Therefore, Aindra dasa writings in his book shows his cheaply imagination of meeting Krishna in Vrindavana.
Haribol Prabhus. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Aindra das is our godbrother and so we wish him well, as we wish all living entities well.
That being said, we can all learn a few lessons here as we look at Aindra’s behavior. I had to bite my tongue earlier to make sure that no one got hurt, upset or go away; but now that everyone seems fine, I need to say a few more words on this subject. Please bear with me.
Yes it’s true that everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone – or hardly anyone – would dare to go where Aindra has gone in his book. Even Satsvarupa with his crazy writings hasn’t dared to go as far as Aindra has. Does anyone here know just how angry Srila Prabhupada would have been if he were here physically and had heard this stuff coming out of Aindra’s pen and mind? Check out Prabhupada’s reaction to Nitai das, who he kicked out of ISKCON to get an idea.
To say that Aindra has made a mistake is not actually correct because it’s more than just a mistake. It’s like the 11 phony gurus who now say, “Oh, we made a mistake.” Right, you thought that you were as good as God, and so you put your picture next to Him on the altar and received worship as good as God. Oops, just a silly mistake! My question is, why did Aindra not know that what he was thinking and writing was an incalculable offence to Srimati Radharani, Lord Krishna and his Spiritual Master, Srila Prabhupada? I’m no Einstein, but I’d rather be dead than think those kind of thoughts, let alone write them in a book and claim it as “higher” realization.
I only glanced through his book and grabbed a few paragraphs from here and there which jumped out at me, but I’ll bet there is lots more in there — stuff I never want to read or think about, ever. It’s contaminating to even think about those things, and I hesitated to share them here. But I knew that I had to in order to be convincing. However, I humbly recommend that devotees stay away from Aindra’s book at all costs lest they become contaminated themselves by impure and ugly thoughts. I feel sorry for the hundreds (and maybe more) of young men and women who came to hear from Aindra das, thinking that he had some kind of higher spiritual understanding to give them. They have been fooled and cheated.
Srila Prabhupada was a perfect Vaisnava gentleman, and he always protected Srimati Radharani and Lord Krishna from neophytes and their speculations, and he became transcendentally enraged when some newcomer upstart wanted to hear the intimate pastimes of the Lord without prior purification of heart and mind. One time a devotee asked Srila Prabhupada about his (intimate) relationship with his Spiritual Master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura,, and he replied, “That you do not require.” When the devotee asked again, Prabhupada repeated himself but more strongly, “THAT YOU DO NOT REQUIRE!” In other words, mind your own business — you’re not qualified to go there. So what do you think Srila Prabhupada would say if he read Aindra’s imaginative “pastimes” with Srimati Radharani? Frankly, I wouldn’t want to be around then — it would be the last place in the universe I’d want to be. When Srila Prabhupada was moved to protect the philosophy, the Vaisnavas or the Supreme Lord, he became like a lion. Aindra wouldn’t have stood a chance.
Even though I only scanned through a tiny bit of the manuscript, let’s take a look at a few lines which I discovered:
“He Rädhe Syäma! … Sometimes I will sweep Your pastime-cottage with my long curly locks of hair … Sometimes I will blissfully offer You varieties of intoxicating honey wine to initiate the jubilation of a million cupids. You will reciprocate by forcibly inducing me to drink as well, after which I will not be able to clearly articulate what Cupid did or did not do to me to enhance the munificent expansion of Your pleasure pastimes.”
In light of his interview with Satyaraj das where Aindra describes his previous life of taking lots of intoxicants and having hair down to his knees, I personally think that he was still attached to those things and he was projecting them on to the spiritual dimension. In his imagination (or hallucination) he desires to have “long curly locks of hair” and “intoxicating honey wine” in the spiritual sky. Then what he desires further in his book actually becomes X-rated because that’s what happens when a conditioned soul describes such lofty pastimes which ONLY a completely purified soul is allowed to approach and understand. So we have long hair, drugs and sex in just a couple of lines or paragraphs from Aindra’s book. And didn’t he also become somewhat of a Hare Krishna rock star there in Vrindavan with his many young fans and hangers on? Isn’t that what he always wanted too — to be like his idol, Jimi Hendrix, who directly offended the Supreme Lord by placing a picture of his own face on the Universal Form on one of his album covers (“Axis: Bold as Love”)?
So frankly I think this man was full of material desires, but he was sublimating them (impurely), and in so doing, he fashioned for himself a sort of pseudo-spiritual career as an ISKCON babaji with the babaji style dress, the “hippy seeds” (as Prabhupada called them) sprouting from his head and face, the Radha-kunda tilak, the swooning kirtan style (not authorized by Srila Prabhupada) and so on. It was fakery, in my opinion. Acting. Babajis do it all the time. It’s nothing new.
Sure, he criticized the bogus gurus, but so does Rocan. Why is Aindra das accepted among some of the followers of Prabhupada and not Rocan? Is it because Aindra had a cool Hare Krishna rock star persona and so he was given a pass? Because I never read where Aindra promoted Srila Prabhupada as the answer. He kept saying that Radha-Krishna is the answer – higher topics about Radha and Krishna’s love pastimes. Did he ever say that ISKCON needs Srila Prabhupada as the sole Guru and that he is the answer to ISKCON’s problems? Maybe he did, but I didn’t see anything like that in his book. Lots of criticism, yes, but then straight into his favorite higher topics. So I don’t see him as a “Prabhupada man,” to be honest. Someone here mentioned that he may have gone over to Narayana Swami for a while at least, so he wasn’t loyal to Prabhupada for that period of time anyway. So where does he get his authority? Who IS his authority? He independently inserted himself into some kind of self-styled guru position, but did he ever consult with older Prabhupada men or Prabhupada disciples? I don’t know, I’m just asking. But all in all, I’m not impressed one bit. And, in fact, I’m very angry with this man’s behavior. His writings are, in my opinion, a direct insult to Srila Prabhupada, Srimati Radharani, and of course, Lord Sri Krishna — the Supreme Enjoyer of Radharani.
We can learn from other previous examples in ISKCON as well. Jayatirtha was once a nice devotee who did lots of service for Srila Prabhupada. Somehow or other he got contaminated, “crossed the river” and started doing all kinds of nonsensical and offensive things – like offering LSD as a “sacrament” to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati — and look what happened to him! Tamal Krishna had the good fortune of being Prabhupada’s personal secretary, but look what happened to him! What about Jayapataka – what happened to him? Here are a few quotes to help us understand and put things in perspective:
“One who oppresses a pure devotee loses all the results of his austerities, penances and pious activities.”
(S.B. 7.4.43, Purport)
“One may attain the topmost platform of devotional service, but somehow or other if he offends a Vaiṣṇava, the whole structure collapses.”
(S.B. 5.10.24, Purport)
“Even if one is as strong as Lord Śiva, who carries a trident in his hand, one will nonetheless fall down from his spiritual position if he tries to insult a Vaiṣṇava. That is the verdict of all Vedic scriptures.”
(S.B. 5.10.25, Purport)
“If one commits vaiṣṇava-aparādhas, all of his progress in devotional service will be checked. Even though one is very much advanced in devotional service, if he commits offenses at the feet of a Vaiṣṇava, his advancement is all spoiled … Therefore one should be very careful about committing offenses at the feet of a Vaiṣṇava. The most grievous type of vaiṣṇava-aparādha is called gurv-aparādha, which refers to offenses at the lotus feet of the spiritual master. In the chanting of the holy name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, this gurv-aparādha is considered the most grievous offense. Guror avajñā śruti-śāstra-nindanam (Padma Purāṇa).”
(S.B. 4.21.37)
Therefore we must all be very, very careful when it comes to committing offences or aparadhas. Apa means against, and Radha means Radharani. If we commit offences to the pure devotee or Srimati Radharani, our good qualities, good fortune, good looks and our very life are all completely doomed. Why Aindra das barreled ahead recklessly by jumping into – and placing himself into the middle of Radha and Krishna’s intimate lila – I can’t say, but no one should follow in his footsteps. Better just to say a prayer for him, close his book, switch on the Prabhupada bhajans and try to become self-realized by the divine grace of Srila Prabhupada directly and without an intermediary, no matter how attractive he or she may be.
When Aindra das has to meet his maker and his spiritual master, I sincerely hope he takes the following advice:
“A vaiṣṇava-aparādha cannot be atoned for by any means other than by begging the pardon of the offended Vaiṣṇava.”
(S.B. 4.26.24, Purport)
“This is the process by which one can be relieved from a vaiṣṇava-aparādha. Kṛṣṇa is always very simple and by nature merciful. When one commits an offense at the feet of a Vaiṣṇava, one must immediately apologize to such a personality so that his spiritual advancement may not be hampered.”
(S.B. 5.10.24, Purport)
That’s my two cents, Prabhus, for whatever it’s worth. Take it or leave it, as you see fit. Hope it helps, even just a little. Thanks for listening.
Hare Krishna.
Dear L W Prabhu.
Thank you for your direct and forthright words regarding Aindra Prabhu and conveying to this forum the questionable subject matter that he wrote in the latter part of his book, which was a shock to me also as I had only read the first section of his book. Your right in your critique regarding the ‘Hare Krishna Rock Star’ disease that seems to infect many people who may have some capability as a musician within ISKCON.
The recent popularity of ‘Bhajana Bands’ is another similar phenomenon with these hippy, mayavadi type characters with their sleazy looking hippy groupie girlfriends swooning over them…..Quite a nauseating experience actually! It is actually the purity of the person which is the most inspirational thing, that is why when you hear Srila Prabhupada’s singing it brings tears to your eyes as his voice just pierces your heart right to the core. For me I find it very difficult to hear others singing devotional music, I only want to hear devotional music which Srila Prabhupada has recorded.
The entertainment business is a completely different ballgame as one needs to be at least ‘competent’ in order to get work. This type of music is for the most part mundane, though music which is mostly Sattvic and heading into some element of spiritual dimension is the most preferred. I much prefer to hear Bruce Hornsby, Eric Clapton or Steve Winwood than listen to hippies and sahajiyas playing “devotional music” as to gain competence as a musician is a challenging pursuit and requires much practice. Playing traps (drum kit) for an hour and a half is like walking 5 kilometers and because you are using all four limbs is excellent for improving the nervous system and for coordination.
Playing music at live venues is mostly a mundane affair, the same as driving a bus or something like that, though it is something that comes natural to me, being creative by nature also I am looking at a new business venture, what else can i do? Just like the Pandavas they were denied their position, so had to go to the forest and work in some mundane type of occupation. There’s a lot of crazies in the entertainment business which is the downside but the upside is it beats being an accountant! At the end of the day you just have to try and make a living without becoming caught up in it all and losing your sanity.
Thanks again for your comments Prabhu.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Sudarsana
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: Playing music at live venues is mostly a mundane affair, the same as driving a bus or something like that, though it is something that comes natural to me, being creative by nature also I am looking at a new business venture, what else can i do? Just like the Pandavas they were denied their position, so had to go to the forest and work in some mundane type of occupation. There’s a lot of crazies in the entertainment business which is the downside but the upside is it beats being an accountant! At the end of the day you just have to try and make a living without becoming caught up in it all and losing your sanity.
Mahesh: Sudarsana Prabhu that is now the REALITY we ALL have. How to maintain our OWN Krsna Consciousness and serve Srila Prabhupada’s mission the best way we can. You folks in Australia have it far better then UK in that it has AMPLE opportunities for AMPLE sunshine, AMPLE land, business opportunties, etc. UK here is ALWAYS freezing cold, ALWAYS always damp and raining, less business scopes, Government Taxes etc high. Lots of impediments. There are many cut backs in services Health cuts,Trash Bins emptied every 2/3 weeks and so on. Car Insurance rip-offs etc, Anything breaks down in Car or House you pay thru the nose with sky high prices–AND there are cheaters who do NOT do the jobs well EVEN you pay them.
Compared to us here in UK you folks are living in Heaven like Demigods. 🙂
The PRACTICAL reality is: the situation we are in it is best to be SINCERE and do the best you can:
Bg 3.7 P Karma-yoga
Instead of becoming a pseudo-transcendentalist for the sake of wanton living and sense enjoyment, it is far better to remain in one’s own business and execute the purpose of life, which is to get free from material bondage and enter into the kingdom of God. The prime svartha-gati, or goal of self-interest, is to reach Visnu. The whole institution of varna and asrama is designed to help us reach this goal of life. A householder can also reach this destination by regulated service in Krsna consciousness. FOR SELF-REALIZATION, ONE CAN LIVE A CONTROLLED LIFE, AS PRESCRIBED IN THE SASTRAS, AND CONTINUE CARRYING OUT HIS BUSINESS WITHOUT ATTACHMENT, AND IN THAT WAY MAKE PROGRESS. SUCH A SINCERE PERSON WHO FOLLOWS THIS METHOD IS FAR BETTER SITUATED THAN THE FALSE PRETENDER WHO ADOPTS SHOW-BOTTLE SPIRITUALISM TO CHEAT THE INNOCENT PUBLIC. A SINCERE SWEEPER IN THE STREET IS FAR BETTER THAN THE CHARLATAN MEDITATOR WHO MEDITATES ONLY FOR THE SAKE OF MAKING A LIVING.
681223BG.LA Lectures
Sudama: Purport: “Instead of becoming a pseudo-transcendentalist for the sake of wanton living and sense enjoyment, it is far better to remain in one’s own business and execute the purpose of life which is to get free from material bondage and enter into the kingdom of God. The svartha-gati or goal of self-interest…”
Prabhupada: Svartha-gati, svartha-gati. Yes.
Sudama: “…or goal of self-interest is to reach Visnu. The whole varna and asrama system is designed to help us reach this goal of life. A householder can also reach this destination by regulated service in Krsna consciousness. For self-realization one can live a controlled life as prescribed in the sastras and continue carrying out his business without attachment, and that will lead him gradually to the progressive path. Such a SINCERE person who follows this method is far better situated than the false pretender who adopts show-bottle spiritualism to cheat the innocent public. A SINCERE sweeper in the street is far better than the charlatan meditator who works only for the sake of making a living.”
Prabhupada: Yes. My Guru Maharaja used to say that don’t accept spiritual life for living. Just like we are sending the sankirtana party. If we take it, “Oh, it is very easy method for living without working. We are getting money for our livelihood,” this is not wanted. If your spiritual life is for…
Just like there are so many professional chanters. Not here. In India. Their business is… Because people like chanting, so they have made this chanting business. Or professional Bhagavata reader. People like reading of Bhagavata. There are many expert Bhagavata readers. They can show many caricature just to attract people, and such people, generally, they describe the rasa-lila of Krsna. Because rasa-lila is resembling just like dealings between young boys and girls, so they take that part, particularly, rasa-lila. Easy way.
And just like here in America, I’ve seen so many persons. They are writing books on Krsna about Krsna’s pastimes with the gopis, as if Krsna has no other pastime. Because these things are very easily saleable. So they are writing books on that. I’ve seen one book written by Mr. Bhattacarya about these, Krsna’s dealings with the gopis. No. This is not good. You should not take Krsna’s activities, Krsna consciousness, professionally, for livelihood. That is dangerous. Your life should be sacrifice for Krsna. That is wanted. Otherwise you shall be pretender. Yes, go on.
Sudama: Verse number eight: “Perform your prescribed duty, which is better than not working. A man cannot even maintain his physical body without work.”
Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna and Arjuna was talking. Krsna never said Arjuna, “Oh, my dear Arjuna, you are My friend, intimate friend and devotee. All right. You haven’t got to fight with your… Everything will be done by Me. You go to Himalaya and meditate.” No. He never said that. Krsna could do, Krsna could fight for Arjuna. He was all-powerful. Without fighting, He could give him everything, but still, He wanted to engage him–that one should be engaged in Krsna consciousness along with his prescribed duty, that is required. Yes. (reading from text:) “PERFORM YOUR PRESCRIBED DUTY WHICH IS BETTER THAN NOT WORKING.”
Bg 18.48 T Conclusion–The Perfection of Renunciation
saha-jam karma kaunteya
sa-dosam api na tyajet
sarvarambha hi dosena
dhumenagnir ivavrtah
SYNONYMS
saha-jam–born simultaneously; karma–work; kaunteya–O son of Kunti; sa-dosam–with fault; api–although; na–never; tyajet–to be given up; sarva-arambhah–any venture; hi–certainly; dosena–with fault; dhumena–with smoke; agnih–fire; iva–as; avrtah–covered.
TRANSLATION
EVERY ENDEAVOR IS COVERED BY SOME SORT OF FAULT, JUST AS FIRE IS COVERED BY SMOKE. THEREFORE ONE SHOULD NOT GIVE UP THE WORK WHICH IS BORN OF HIS NATURE, O SON OF KUNTI, EVEN IF SUCH WORK IS FULL OF FAULT.
PURPORT
In conditioned life, all work is contaminated by the material modes of nature. Even if one is a brahmana, he has to perform sacrifices in which animal killing is necessary. Similarly, a ksatriya, however pious he may be, has to fight enemies. He cannot avoid it. Similarly, a merchant, however pious he may be, must sometimes hide his profit to stay in business, or he may sometimes have to do business on the black market. These things are necessary; one cannot avoid them. Similarly, even though a man is a sudra serving a bad master, he has to carry out the order of the master, even though it should not be done. Despite these flaws, one should continue to carry out his prescribed duties, for they are born out of his own nature.
A very nice example is given herein. Although fire is pure, still there is smoke. Yet smoke does not make the fire impure. Even though there is smoke in the fire, fire is still considered to be the purest of all elements. If one prefers to give up the work of a ksatriya and take up the occupation of a brahmana, he is not assured that in the occupation of a brahmana there are no unpleasant duties. One may then conclude that in the material world no one can be completely free from the contamination of material nature. This example of fire and smoke is very appropriate in this connection. When in wintertime one takes a stone from the fire, sometimes smoke disturbs the eyes and other parts of the body, but still one must make use of the fire despite disturbing conditions. Similarly, one should not give up his natural occupation because there are some disturbing elements. Rather, one should be determined to serve the Supreme Lord by his occupational duty in Krsna consciousness. That is the perfectional point. When a particular type of occupation is performed for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, all the defects in that particular occupation are purified. When the results of work are purified, when connected with devotional service, one becomes perfect in seeing the self within, and that is self-realization.
Dear Sudarsana Prabhu,
This has been quite the discussion wouldn’t you agree? (Oh brother, what next?)
Actually, I had never been interested in Aindra das until I read your comments suggesting that he might be on the madhyama platform. Respecting your opinion, I decided to investigate. So we were both shocked to say the least. The temple managers did him no favor by letting him carry on in the Krishna-Balarama temple in front of the Deities in the holy dhama while he was writing, thinking and imagining all that nonsense because his offenses would have kept multiplying daily. Better he had been stopped for his own good and everyone else’s. He infiltrated Srila Prabhupada’s temple and was spreading sahajiyism lock, stock and barrel. The babajis and enemies of ISKCON must have been rubbing their hands in glee. Tragic story.
Anyway, I wish to commend you for taking the humble position in all this. Srila Prabhupada would be pleased with your attitude. You have demonstrated your good character. Thank you very much.
“To err is human. Anyone commits mistake. There is no doubt about it. But after committing mistake, if I stick to that mistake, that is foolishness. When it is detected that it is mistake, you must admit. That is greatness.”
(Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk Converstaion, 2/1/77)
Of all the good qualities a man or woman may have, I appreciate humility the most. One may be handsome or beautiful, rich or talented, but if there is no humility in one’s heart then none of that matters a fig to me. So you deserve a friendly pat on the back. Bravo!
With regards to making a living in this crazy world, etc., all we can do is our humble best. Because of what’s going on in the movement now, we’re in exile and so we just have to “do the needful,” as Prabhupada often said. He also stated that everyone should try to serve Krishna “to the best of our individual capacity.” In an ideal world we’d all be living together and helping one another in a wonderful spiritual society with Srila Prabhupada in the center. But unfortunately it’s not an ideal world. Krishna and Prabhupada understand that, so we just have to carry on and somehow or other and pray for Srila Prabhupada’s mercy, guidance and forgiveness. He knew that we weren’t perfect, but he accepted us anyway – and he will still accept us if we simply remain humble and faithful to him. Devotional service is continuous and so we can all look forward to meeting Srila Prabhupada in the future for further training. Krishna consciousness is all-auspicious and full of hope.
“Devotional service is so pure and perfect that once having begun, one is forcibly dragged to ultimate success.”
(Nectar of Instruction, Verse 3, Purport)
Yes I agree with you about the bogus kirtan groups also influenced by sahajiyism. Everyone must walk their own path in Krishna consciousness (or fly our own plane, as Prabhupada said), so just try to be happy in your own efforts to be true to Srila Prabhupada in your heart. What else can we do? Most of us weren’t born in India or raised in a Krishna conscious environment, so there are going to be some deep-rooted attachments. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Something is better than nothing. Luckily, Krishna sees only the good.
After describing the qualties of a transcendentalist in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Srila Prabhupada writes:
“Even if one is not situated in such a transcendental position, if he simply approves of such a transcendental life, he also becomes very dear to Krishna.”
(T.L.C., Chapter 14)
Do you approve of Krishna consciousness? Do you approve of Srila Prabhupada? I thought so. Therefore you are very dear to Krishna according to Srila Prabhupada. 🙂
It’s a mad, mad, mad, mad, world out there – and getting worse by the day, as you know. So best of luck and Krishna’s mercy on you.
Thanks again for your comments and contributions here.
Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Dear L W Prabhu.
Thank you for your contribution to this article and for your thoughts and kind words.
Your servant
Sudarsana
Thank you, Prabhu. Sorry if I was a little over the top. But all’s well that ends well. 🙂
I don’t know too much about this group, but have you ever heard of Namrock? Thought you might be interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fL-K4NTZ70
Haribol!
P.S. I have no idea what group this Prabhu belongs to or anything about his personal philosophy, but here’s a nice one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eAt4ONU55w
“Have Mercy on the Animals” – good message.
LW:Sure, he criticized the bogus gurus, but so does Rocan. Why is Aindra das accepted among some of the followers of Prabhupada and not Rocan? Is it because Aindra had a cool Hare Krishna rock star persona and so he was given a pass? Because I never read where Aindra promoted Srila Prabhupada as the answer. He kept saying that Radha-Krishna is the answer — higher topics about Radha and Krishna’s love pastimes. Did he ever say that ISKCON needs Srila Prabhupada as the sole Guru and that he is the answer to ISKCON’s problems? Maybe he did, but I didn’t see anything like that in his book. Lots of criticism, yes, but then straight into his favorite higher topics. So I don’t see him as a “Prabhupada man,” to be honest. Someone here mentioned that he may have gone over to Narayana Swami for a while at least, so he wasn’t loyal to Prabhupada for that period of time anyway.
Mahesh: Aindra NEVER mentioned RITVIK. He was CUNNING he AVOIDED the word RITVIK. He was Narayan Maharaja man. He imported Narayan Maharaja Replica Beard AND his sahajiya Gopi bhava pastimes PRETENDING he is Gopi dressing Radharani. His Kirtan party followers were for EATING, getting a COSY place to sleep and become MUSICIANS to please the Hindus for getting hand-out MONEY. They do NOT want Srila Prabhupada as the SOLE DIKSA GURU for ISKCON. They were like him. Aindra wanted a COSY place to fill his belly and become MUSICIAN and talk about his SAHAJIYA Gopi bhava business. Their Hare Krsna Kirtana party was their CURRENCY to have a SOCIAL CLUB. This way they get their belly filled, nice cozy roof over their heads, money to spend, music and chit – chat social gathering.
The MAIN thing is to chant and HEAR the sound vibration of HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.
Here are some important instructions on Kirtana from Srila Prabhupada:
69-05-26. Letter: Jadurani
Please accept my blessings. I thank you very much for your letter dated May 9, 1969, and I have noted the contents carefully. REGARDING YOUR QUESTION ABOUT KIRTANA, PRACTICALLY WE ARE NOT CONCERNED WITH THE INSTRUMENTS. THEY ARE USED SOMETIMES TO MAKE IT SWEETER, BUT IF WE DIVERT OUR ATTENTION FOR USING THE INSTRUMENTS MORE, THAT IS NOT GOOD. GENERALLY KIRTANA IS PERFORMED WITH MRDANGA AND KARATALAS, but if somebody is expert instrument player, he can be admitted to join Sankirtana. WE CAN ACCEPT EVERYTHING FOR KRISHNA’S SERVICE, BUT NOT TAKING THE RISK OF DIVERTING ATTENTION TO ANY OTHER THING WHICH WILL HINDER OUR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS. THAT SHOULD BE OUR MOTTO, OR PRINCIPLE.
75-02-02. Letter: Rupanuga
REGARDING INSTRUMENTS FOR TEMPLE KIRTANAS, KARATALA AND MRDANGA ARE SUFFICIENT. THERE IS NO NEED OF OTHER INSTRUMENTS.
76-06-30 Letter to: Satsvarupa Goswami, (new98) letters
WITH REGARD TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT BENGALI STYLE KIRTANA AND MRDANGA PLAYING, ONE OR TWO STYLES IS BEST. TO INTRODUCE MORE STYLES IS NOT GOOD. IT WILL BECOME AN ENCUMBRANCE. Who is that Krsna das Babaji who is teaching? IF WE INTRODUCE SO MUCH EMPHASIS ON STYLE OF KIRTANA, THEN SIMPLY IMITATION WILL GO ON. DEVOTIONAL EMOTION IS THE MAIN THING. IF WE GIVE STRESS TO INSTRUMENT AND STYLE THEN ATTENTION WILL BE DIVERTED TO THE STYLE. THAT WILL BE SPIRITUAL LOSS.
69-07-01. Letter: Mukunda
SO I REQUEST YOU NOT TO DIVERT YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MUSICAL SIDE. I KNOW YOU ARE A MUSICIAN, AND NATURALLY YOU HAVE GOT A TENDENCY FOR MUSICAL ENTERTAINMENT, BUT AT THE PRESENT MOMENT OUR MAIN BUSINESS IS TO PUSH THE SANKIRTANA MOVEMENT. SO, AS YOU ARE DOING, TAKE THE SANKIRTANA PARTY TO VARIOUS PLACES, AND THIS WILL BE THE MOST APPRECIATED. IF YOU ADULTERATE OUR SANKIRTANA MOVEMENT WITH SOME BUSINESS MOTIVE, THEN IT WILL BE SPOILED IMMEDIATELY. BE CAREFUL IN THAT WAY.
69-10-30. Letter: Tamala Krsna
I am pleased to note that there is interest in having our Sankirtana Party perform in various public engagements. The same thing is going on here, and they have been invited to such places as Amsterdam and Germany. So if you can also do this, it is nice. But do not change our principles. PRACTICING IS ALREADY DONE BY KIRTANA. IT IS NOT REQUIRED FOR US TO BECOME ARTISTS. OUR MAIN POINT IS SERVICE TO KRISHNA, NOT TO PLEASE AN AUDIENCE. WE SHALL NOT DIVERT OUR ATTENTION TOO MUCH TO ADJUSTMENT OF MUSICAL SOUNDS. PEOPLE SHOULD NOT MISUNDERSTOOD THAT WE ARE A BAND OF MUSICAL ARTISTS. THEY MUST KNOW THAT WE ARE DEVOTEES OF KRISHNA. OUR DEVOTIONAL PRACTICE AND PURITY SHALL BE SO STRONG THAT WHEREVER WE CHANT THERE WILL BE IMMEDIATELY AN IMPRESSION IN THE AUDIENCE FOR DEVOTION TO KRISHNA.
69-07-02.Muk Letter: Mukunda
AS I HAVE ALREADY WRITTEN TO YOU, WE SHOULD NOT TRY TO BECOME A VERY POPULAR MUSICAL PARTY. MUSIC IS ONE OF OUR ITEMS FOR CHANTING, BUT WE ARE NOT MUSICIANS. WE SHOULD ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS FACT.
70-02-08. Letter: Tamala Krsna
Regarding the six months contract for L250 per week from engagements in halls, colleges, clubs, etc., it is very good news. BUT ONE THING WE MUST REMEMBER THAT WE ARE NOT PROFESSIONAL MUSICIANS OR CONCERT PARTY. OUR MAIN BUSINESS IS TO VIBRATE THE HOLY NAME OF KRISHNA EVERYWHERE SO THAT THE PEOPLE WILL BE BENEFITED BY HEARING THE TRANSCENDENTAL SOUND. THE MUSICAL TRAINING IS NOT SO IMPORTANT AS IT IS TO KEEP OURSELVES SPIRITUALLY FIT IN SPIRITUAL STRENGTH, THAT WE SHOULD NOT FORGET. If we are in spiritual strength, there will be no scarcity of money; and the spiritual strength is that each and every one of us must chant the sixteen rounds of beads and follow the rules and regulations with great adherence.
74-12-28. Letter: Jagadisa Pandita
My opinion is that it is not necessary for us to utilize these different musical talents for spreading Krsna Consciousness. I would rather see people follow strictly the path of Lord Caitanya and His Sankirtana devotees. WE ARE USING MRDANGA, KARATALA, THAT IS ENOUGH. WE ARE NOT MUSICIANS. WE ARE KRSNA BHAKTAS. THEREFORE WE DO NOT STRESS SO MUCH IMPORTANCE ON THESE DIFFERENT MUSICAL TALENTS. SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU IS GOD HIMSELF. HAD HE THOUGHT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER TO SPREAD KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS BY ANOTHER WAY HE WOULD HAVE DONE SO. BUT NO, SIMPLY WITH MRDANGA AND KARATALA, TRAVELING AND CHANTING HARE KRSNA, ASKING EVERYONE TO CHANT HARE KRSNA, PREACHING SIMPLY SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM PHILOSOPHY, THIS IS THE PROCESS. THERE IS NO NEED FOR US TO TRY AND ADD ANYTHING TO THIS SIMPLE METHOD. IT WILL ONLY BE A DISTRACTION. Therefore I request you to follow the simple path of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and help me spread this wonderful mission all over the world. Keep yourself pure and fixed up in Krsna Consciousness by following the basic principles that I have given; chanting 16 rounds daily, following the four regulative principles, rising early, attending mangala arati and classes etc. This is of the utmost importance.
Note: instead of hearing Aindra and his CONTAMINATED music party BEST to CONCENTRATE hear Srila Prabhupada the PURE devotee in his tapes, MP3s, Cds :
SB 4.20.25 Lord Visnu’ s Appearance in the Sacrificial Arena of Maharaja Prthu
My dear Lord, You are glorified by the selected verses uttered by great personalities. Such glorification of Your lotus feet is just like saffron particles. WHEN THE TRANSCENDENTAL VIBRATION FROM THE MOUTHS OF GREAT DEVOTEES CARRIES THE AROMA OF THE SAFFRON DUST OF YOUR LOTUS FEET, THE FORGETFUL LIVING ENTITY GRADUALLY REMEMBERS HIS ETERNAL RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU. Devotees thus gradually come to the right conclusion about the value of life. My dear Lord, I therefore do not need any other benediction but the opportunity to hear from the mouth of Your pure devotee.
PURPORT
IT IS EXPLAINED IN THE PREVIOUS VERSE THAT ONE HAS TO HEAR GLORIFICATION OF THE LORD FROM THE MOUTH OF A PURE DEVOTEE. THIS IS FURTHER EXPLAINED HERE. THE TRANSCENDENTAL VIBRATION FROM THE MOUTH OF A PURE DEVOTEE IS SO POWERFUL THAT IT CAN REVIVE THE LIVING ENTITY’S MEMORY OF HIS ETERNAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD. In our material existence, under the influence of illusory maya, we have almost forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord, exactly like a man sleeping very deeply who forgets his duties. In the Vedas it is said that every one of us is sleeping under the influence of maya. We must get up from this slumber and engage in the right service, for thus we can properly utilize the facility of this human form of life. As expressed in a song by Thakura Bhaktivinoda, Lord Caitanya says, jiva jaga, jiva jaga. The Lord asks every sleeping living entity to get up and engage in devotional service so that his mission in this human form of life may be fulfilled. This awakening voice comes through the mouth of a pure devotee.
A PURE DEVOTEE ALWAYS ENGAGES IN THE SERVICE OF THE LORD, TAKING SHELTER OF HIS LOTUS FEET, AND THEREFORE HE HAS A DIRECT CONNECTION WITH THE SAFFRON MERCY-PARTICLES THAT ARE STREWN OVER THE LOTUS FEET OF THE LORD. ALTHOUGH WHEN A PURE DEVOTEE SPEAKS THE ARTICULATION OF HIS VOICE MAY RESEMBLE THE SOUND OF THIS MATERIAL SKY, THE VOICE IS SPIRITUALLY VERY POWERFUL BECAUSE IT TOUCHES THE PARTICLES OF SAFFRON DUST ON THE LOTUS FEET OF THE LORD. AS SOON AS A SLEEPING LIVING ENTITY HEARS THE POWERFUL VOICE EMANATING FROM THE MOUTH OF A PURE DEVOTEE, HE IMMEDIATELY REMEMBERS HIS ETERNAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD, ALTHOUGH UP UNTIL THAT MOMENT HE HAD FORGOTTEN EVERYTHING.
FOR A CONDITIONED SOUL, THEREFORE, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HEAR FROM THE MOUTH OF A PURE DEVOTEE, WHO IS FULLY SURRENDERED TO THE LOTUS FEET OF THE LORD WITHOUT ANY MATERIAL DESIRE, SPECULATIVE KNOWLEDGE OR CONTAMINATION OF THE MODES OF MATERIAL NATURE. Every one of us is kuyogi because we have engaged in the service of this material world, forgetting our eternal relationship with the Lord as His eternal loving servants. It is our duty to rise from the kuyoga platform to become suyogis, perfect mystics. The process of hearing from a pure devotee is recommended in all Vedic scriptures, especially by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. One may stay in his position of life–it does not matter what it is–but if one hears from the mouth of a pure devotee, he gradually comes to the understanding of his relationship with the Lord and thus engages in His loving service, and his life becomes completely perfect. Therefore, this process of hearing from the mouth of a pure devotee is very important for making progress in the line of spiritual understanding.
Dear Mahesh Raja Sastra-Caksusa Sloka-Acarya Prabhu,
Thank you for your comments, always enlightening. Quite frankly, I don’t think there are any madhyama-adhikaris around these days – nor hardly any true kanistha-adhikaris either. I think we are all just aspiring to be devotees, but without Prabhupada’s causeless mercy on our heads, there’s no hope.
You may know the quote where Srila Prabhupada said (paraphrasing) that one may chant Hare Krishna for millions of years, but if he doesn’t get the mercy of the pure devotee then all his chanting is to no avail. This is the secret. We will never be sadhana-siddhis, in my humble opinion. We can only hope to be krpa-siddhis, by Prabhupada’s divine grace.
“Your next question is, should we love Krishna or love the spiritual master: You cannot go to Krishna directly, loving Him. It is common sense that if Krishna is the object of your love, His pet dog is also the object of your love. Friends meet friends and if the friend is with his dog the gentleman pats his dog first, is it not? So the man becomes automatically pleased, his dog being patted. I have seen it in your country. The conclusion is this: Without pleasing the spiritual master he cannot please Krishna. If anyone tries to please Krishna directly, he’s fool number one.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, December 14, 1972)
Krishna consciousness is not a mechanical process. We must first attract and receive the blessings of the spiritual master. This is of primary importance. How can we go directly to Krishna while bypassing His beloved pure devotee? It is simply arrogance on our part if we think like that, and all our efforts at chanting will be unsuccessful in the end. Neither do big, big words impress Krishna or the spiritual master. Aindra das must have spent countless hours of time writing his critiques of the false acaryas in flowery language, probably with a big dictionary by his side (or bookmarked on his computer). What’s the use of all that erudition if he offends Srila Prabhupada or Radharani and Krishna in Their own abode? Better to be simple and straightforward without making a big show.
“The ‘new gurus’ are phony. Five words. How about that? What’s the need for writing pages and pages of esoteric words that most people don’t understand?
“Essential truth spoken concisely is true eloquence.”
(Caitanya-caritamrita Adi-lila 1.106)
Aindra das needed to first of all read and understand the Bhagavad-gita As It Is and Srila Prabhupada’s purports filled with spiritual wisdom (as you have so rightly quoted):
“A sincere sweeper in the street is far better than the charlatan meditator who meditates only for the sake of making a living.”
(Bhagavad-gita As It Is 3.7, Purport)
Thank you for sharing so many appropriate verses and quotes for our consideration and spiritual advancement. As I said, you are “sastra-caksusa” – you see through the eyes of sastra. This is the right way – Srila Prabhupada’s way. Prabhupada once wrote, “Take the essence.” And you have done so admirably. Your sincere efforts and hard work have not gone unnoticed or unappreciated. All glories to your service.
Onward Krishna’s soldiers — to the next battle for Prabhupada! 🙂
Hare Krishna.
Whoops, I meant sadhana-siddhas and kripa-siddhas (and not siddhis) in the above reply.
Balaram das:(Narayana Maharaja) He was so envious of Srila Prabhupada that he refused the personal invitation carried by BP Puri Maharaja to attend the ground breaking of Mayapur Mandir, where Srila Prabhupada personally served prasadam to his attending godbrothers. (see interview with BP Puri Maharaja)
Mahesh: I also heard that somewhere. He and Sridhar Maharaj STOLE Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. BOTH were envious of Srila Prabhupada. They just had NO MANNERS. No Vaisnava ettiquette. No credibility. They learnt some extra Sanskrit Slokas which they had memorised PARROT fashion to boost their status—to DUPE devotees. NO REALIZATION like Srila Prabhupada about Krsna, Goloka, Vaikuntha how he gives us in his books.
It is so OBVIOUS people like Aindra influenced by Narayana Maharaja got hooked into this Sahajiya business of Replica Narayana Maharaja Beards FALSITY of renunciation. Aindra’s MISFORTUNE was he learnt this nonsense gopi bhava business from Narayana Maharaja of describing Srimati Radharani PRETENDING he was gopi on transcendental stage. Aindra did not EVEN THINK that Srila Prabhupada who was such an highly elevated QUALIFIED MAHA BHAGAVATA yet EVEN he did not go for such Sahajiya business of describing Srimati Radharani like this so who was he to do this nonsense!!! Aindra was just a CONDITIONED soul.
Looks to me like this VERY offense Krsna did NOT want him living there. Perhaps? this is why his exit was VERY VERY BAD. This was his BAD karma in HOLY DHAMA. Everyone gets their due punishment who knows how he will be punished for this sahajiya business in his next life. As long as we are CONDITIONED by the three modes of nature goodness(sattva guna), passion(Rajo guna), ignorance(tamo guna) we are under the laws of KARMA and we will be punished. Good karma good result bad karma bad result. Nobody gets away.
Note: Offenses in holy dhama:
740314LE.VRN Lectures
So you are all fortunate. You have come to Vrndavana, perhaps for the first time in life. So it is very good opportunity. Vrndavana-dhama. Aprakrta, cintamani. Similarly, you are coming from Navadvipa. That is also cintamani-dhama. These two dhama, places, are not ordinary places. Don’t make dhama-aparadha. AS THERE ARE OFFENSES AGAINST CHANTING THE HOLY NAME, SIMILARLY, THERE ARE OFFENSES IN DHAMA, THAT IN THE DHAMA ONE SHOULD NOT PERFORM ANY SINFUL ACTIVITIES IN THE DHAMA. IN THE DHAMA, IF YOU CHANT HARE KRSNA MANTRA, THEN IT INCREASES THOUSAND TIMES. SIMILARLY, IN THE DHAMA, IF YOU COMMIT OFFENSES, IT INCREASES THOUSAND TIMES. So dhama, one should be very careful not to commit any sinful activities. Illicit sex, or intoxication, meat-eating and gambling–these are the sinful activities. So Vrndavana-dhama, aprakrta dhama. Those who are attached to visaya, sense gratification, they cannot see what is Vrndavana. They cannot see what is Vrndavana. They cannot understand what is Krsna and Radha, those who are visayi. Visaya means ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam ca. This is visaya, material objectives. They cannot. Therefore Narottama dasa Thakura sings,
visaya chadiya kabe suddha ha’be mana
kabe hama herava sri-vrndavana
Visaya chadiya, one who has become detestful to this material enjoyment, they can see what is Vrndavana. Those who are attached to material enjoyment, they cannot see what is Vrndavana. These are the process.
Note: Even childhood karma is taken into account:
740604SB.GEN Lectures
So Vidura is Yamaraja, the superintendent of death. After our death, we are brought before the justice Yamaraja, what kind of next birth I may have. So Yamaraja is not sudra. He is devotee of Lord Krsna, although he has the duty to punish the criminals. Just like a magistrate is always punishing the criminals. That is his business, but he is not criminal. He is giving judgment to the criminals. Similarly, Yamaraja is the appointed magistrate, superintendent. After death, one has to go before him and take the judgment of his next life. This is the process.
So Vidura was cursed by Manduka Muni, Manduka Muni. He was a great sage, but sometimes in his asrama, some thieves were caught, so police arrested both the Manduka Muni and the thieves, and later on Manduka Muni was chastised to be punished by sula. There was a system of punishment. I do not whether (it is) still existing. The sula means one lance, lancer. Lancer, it is called?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupada: It was to be pierced through the rectum and it will go through the head and the man will die. The pierce was standing, and he was to sit down. What is this punishment? Is there any mention?
Pusta-krsna: I never heard of anything.
Guru-gauranga: Arabians have this. It is called pala(?).
Prabhupada: Sula punishment. So when he was condemned to the sula punishment, then the king heard that “Manduka Muni, the great sage, he is punished like that?” Immediately he stopped. “What is this nonsense that Manduka Muni has been punished? He is a great sage.” So the king stopped the punishment and immediately came to see what has happened. Then he was immediately released. But he was very sorry, that “Why the judge Yamaraja punished him like that?” So he asked Yamaraja, “Why you have punished me like this?” “Now, in your childhood you pierced the rectum of an ant with a…,” what is called?
Devotees: Pin, straw.
Prabhupada: No, not straw. Prick, pricking?
Devotee: Pin.
Prabhupada: Kanta, kanta. We say kanta, that pricks. What is called?
Devotees: Thorn.
Prabhupada: Ah, thorn, yes. So therefore he was punished. NOW JUST SEE. IN HIS CHILDHOOD HE WAS PLAYING WITH AN ANT, PIERCING THE RECTUM WITH A THORN. THAT IS ALSO TAKEN ACCOUNT, “ALL RIGHT. YOU WILL BE PUNISHED.” JUST SEE HOW FINER LAWS ARE THERE IN NATURE. SO THE MANDUKA MUNI DID THAT. THEREFORE IT WAS RECORDED HE SHOULD BE PUNISHED LIKE THAT.
THIS IS OUR POSITION. ANYTHING… IF YOU ARE WALKING ON THE STREET, IF YOU KILL AN ANT BY WALKING, YOU WILL BE PUNISHED. THIS IS NATURE’S LAW. WE ARE IN SUCH A DANGEROUS POSITION. IN EVERY MOVEMENT THERE IS PUNISHMENT. NOW, IF YOU BELIEVE THE SASTRAS, THAT IS DIFFERENT THING. IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE, THEN DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE. BUT FROM SASTRA WE CAN UNDERSTAND THE LAWS OF NATURE, OR GOD, IS VERY, VERY STRICT, VERY, VERY STRICT.
Note: NOBODY gets away:
SB 7.8.27 P Lord Nrsimhadeva Slays the King of the Demons
WHEN A SINFUL MAN ENJOYS MATERIAL FACILITIES, FOOLISH PEOPLE SOMETIMES THINK, “HOW IS IT THAT THIS SINFUL MAN IS ENJOYING WHEREAS A PIOUS MAN IS SUFFERING?” BY THE WILL OF THE SUPREME, A SINFUL MAN IS SOMETIMES GIVEN THE CHANCE TO ENJOY THE MATERIAL WORLD AS IF HE WERE NOT UNDER THE CLUTCHES OF MATERIAL NATURE, JUST SO THAT HE MAY BE FOOLED. A sinful man who acts against the laws of nature must be punished, but sometimes he is given a chance to play, exactly like Hiranyakasipu when he was released from the hands of Nrsimhadeva. Hiranyakasipu was destined to be ultimately killed by Nrsimhadeva, but just to see the fun, the Lord gave him a chance to slip from His hands.
Hare Krsna Mahesh Raja Prabhu,
“Mahesh: I also heard that somewhere. He and Sridhar Maharaj STOLE Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. BOTH were envious of Srila Prabhupada”
Balaram das: BV Puri Maharaja stated this in his interview on ITV Productions, which can be seen on U-TUBE.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=OT2bSOl_go4
This interview is a series of 6 U-Tube posts that follow on sequentially. BV Puri Maharaj says he never accepted any disciples and he also emphatically states that Srila Prabhupada told him he only ever appointed ritviks, not gurus. (In my comment I accidentally referred to BV Puri Maharaja as “BP”, who of course was another of Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers, Bhakti Pramode Puri Maharaja. So maybe it was BP Puri Maharaja with your reference to stealing disciples.
On December 2nd 1970, Srila Prabhupada wrote to Bhakti Vaibhava Puri maharaja>>
“My dear Puri Maharaj,
Perhaps you are my only Godbrother who has appreciated my humble service to the cause of Guru Gauranga”
Unfortunately BV Puri Maharaj did not accept the system of ritvik initiation after the physical departure of Srila Prabhupada, but he also says the guru must still receive the appointment and blessing from his own guru (which Srila Prabhupada never gave to any disciple).
Srila Prabhupada as a saktyavesa avatar, specifically empowered by Lord Caitanya to distribute the Holy name in every town and village, adjusted the process of initiation to include the most fallen. This is also confirmed by Srimad Viraraghava Acarya>>
SB 4.8.54 Purport:
Those who are not actually in the line of acaryas, or who personally have no knowledge of how to act in the role of acarya, unnecessarily criticize the activities of the ISKCON movement in countries outside of India. The fact is that such critics cannot do anything personally to spread Krsna consciousness. If someone does go and preach, taking all risks and allowing all considerations for time and place, it might be that there are changes in the manner of worship, but that is not at all faulty according to sastra. Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. The FORMALITIES may be slightly changed here and there to make them Vaisnavas.
Yhs,
Balaram das.
Hare Krsna! Balaram Prabhu
Another point – The FACT of the matter is Gaudiya Matha Godbrothers were ALL CONDITIONED souls. They could NOT even understand that the Jiva (soul) has come ORIGINALLY from Goloka Srila Prabhupada says: “FORMERLY WE WERE WITH KRSNA IN HIS LILA OR SPORT”. However, they think Brahmasayujya is Origin of Soul. Srila Prabhupada says BACK TO Godhead. This word BACK TO means RETURNING to Godhead. These Gaudiya Matha Godbrothers were CONCOCTING according to their IMAGINATION. They had NO REALIZATION. HOW can these folks give Diksa to ANYONE? They were NOT realized souls. They can NOT transfer Krsna in ANYONES heart. Srila Prabhupada was REALIZED soul he could SEE Krsna and Goloka in HIS HEART hence he could describe it SO VIVIDLY:
SB 2.9.35 P Answers by Citing the Lord’ s Version
The impersonalists can imagine or even perceive that the Supreme Brahman is thus all-pervading, and therefore they conclude that there is no possibility of His personal form. Herein lies the mystery of His transcendental knowledge. This mystery is transcendental love of Godhead, and one who is surcharged with such transcendental love of Godhead can without difficulty see the Personality of Godhead in every atom and every movable or immovable object. And at the same time he can see the Personality of Godhead in His own abode, Goloka, enjoying eternal pastimes with His eternal associates, who are also expansions of His transcendental existence. This vision is the real mystery of spiritual knowledge, as stated by the Lord in the beginning (sarahasyam tad-angam ca). This mystery is the most confidential part of the knowledge of the Supreme, and it is impossible for the mental speculators to discover by dint of intellectual gymnastics. The mystery can be revealed through the process recommended by Brahmaji in his Brahma-samhita (5.38) as follows:
premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti
yam syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
“I worship the original Personality of Godhead, Govinda, whom the pure devotees, their eyes smeared with the ointment of love of Godhead, ALWAYS OBSERVE WITHIN THEIR HEARTS. This Govinda, the original Personality of Godhead, is Syamasundara with all transcendental qualities.”
Therefore, although He is present in every atom, the Supreme Personality of Godhead may not be visible to the dry speculators; still the mystery is unfolded before the eyes of the pure devotees because their eyes are anointed with love of Godhead. And this love of Godhead can be attained only by the practice of transcendental loving service of the Lord, and nothing else. THE VISION OF THE DEVOTEES IS NOT ORDINARY; IT IS PURIFIED BY THE PROCESS OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. IN OTHER WORDS, AS THE UNIVERSAL ELEMENTS ARE BOTH WITHIN AND WITHOUT, SIMILARLY THE LORD’S NAME, FORM, QUALITY, PASTIMES, ENTOURAGE, ETC., AS THEY ARE DESCRIBED IN THE REVEALED SCRIPTURES OR AS PERFORMED IN THE VAIKUNTHALOKAS, FAR, FAR BEYOND THE MATERIAL COSMIC MANIFESTATION, ARE FACTUALLY BEING TELEVISED IN THE HEART OF THE DEVOTEE. THE MAN WITH A POOR FUND OF KNOWLEDGE CANNOT UNDERSTAND, ALTHOUGH BY MATERIAL SCIENCE ONE CAN SEE THINGS FAR AWAY BY MEANS OF TELEVISION. FACTUALLY, THE SPIRITUALLY DEVELOPED PERSON IS ABLE TO HAVE THE TELEVISION OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD ALWAYS REFLECTED WITHIN HIS HEART. THAT IS THE MYSTERY OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.
Hare Krsna!
ys mahesh
Hare Krsna Mahesh Raj prabhu,
Thanks for your multitude of references which I am well aware of. We are on the same page! By quoting BV Puri Maharaj, I was simply pointing out FURTHER evidence, (not that WE need it), that Srila Prabhupada NEVER appointed gurus, only ritviks.
Since receiving initiation from Srila Prabhupada in Feb 73, I have continued the fight against the GM influence, as TP for 14 years in Melbourne and since then after RESIGNING from that position and FISKCON after the zonal acarya debacle!
I have NEVER even been tempted to seek out, visit or hear from any of Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers, including Sridar, Narayan & Co, as so many other disciples may have done. NO NEED WHATSOEVER. I simply pray for the dust emanating from the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada, who so mercifully allowed this wretched soul to follow him on so many transcendental ‘morning walks’ during his manifest lila.
I pray to the sincere Vaisnavas to give me the strength to remain dedicated to and in the eternal service of His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
Yhs as always,
Balaram das.
Dear Balaram Prabhu
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! Please accept my humble obeisances.
Yes – I know we are on the same page BUT there are others thousands who read this website here from different places – so this further quotes were especially for their information. A wake-up call.
Nice to see your past Track Record as TP in Melbourne and your SINCERE attitude to Srila Prabhupada. Lets hope that more TPs/ other devotees will become encouraged by your position to come forward to accept Srila Prabhupada and his Ritvik System instead of licking the bums of the bogus GBC manufactured/rubber-stamped conditioned soul “gurus”.
Hare Krsna!
ys mahesh
Hare Krsna Mahesh prabhu,
Yes it’s a great shame that we have so precious few who are prepared to speak out, but we have to keep up the ‘good fight’ for Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and the preservation of his original pre-1978 transcendental literatures.
Ultimately all these puny little usurpers will come and go, just like so many bogus branches of the Gaudya sampradaya from Lord Caitanya & Nityananda that withered & perished!
Srila Prabhupada always said his ‘books ARE the basis’, yet these envious miscreants even dare to rewrite his Bhaktivedanta purports. Can you just imagine the reaction from Srila Prabhupada when a ‘proof-writer’ (who just checks for grammar, punctuation and spelling), goes to him and says….. my dear spiritual master, I’m sure I can present your works in a way that will be much clearer and easily understandable, therefore at the next printing I would like to make wholesale changes to your translations and purports. How offensive!!
I WOULDN’T WANT TO BE IN THAT ROOM!
Yhs,
Balaram das
Balaram Prabhu, these book changers Jayadvaita and Dravida are called on internet as DRYadvaita and his pet GORILLA. They have lost ALL credibility. They are so ENVIOUS of Srila Prabhupada and thought they could DUPE others. They thought nobody will notice book changes and forming their OWN PRIVATE MONEY MAKING COMPANY BBTI. USING Srila Prabhupada as “WORKER FOR HIRE”. Where is their MANNERS!! Srila Prabhupada’s BBT which was 50% for the Srila Prabhupada’s Original Books publishing 50% for the Temples and NO Salaries is gone REPLACED with their concoction “Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International” with different motives. They do NOT ACTUALLY accept Srila Prabhupada. It is SUPERFICIAL LIP SERVICE. USING Srila Prabhupada’s NAME for their furthering their OWN money interests. So long they can make MONEY from ill-gotten gains THAT is now their life-style. Jayadvaita is PRIME suspect in giving poison to Srila Prabhupada. Enjoy now by usurping Srila Prabhupada’s BBT and changing his books: Pay later by going to hell:
IF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS NOT SATISFIED, THEN YOU ARE GONE TO HELL. YASYA APRASADAN NA GATIH KUTO ‘PI.
740524SB.ROM Lectures
But business is how to satisfy Krsna. Samsiddhir hari-tosanam. Hari-tosanam. This is very natural. Just like in a big office, some many clerks are waiting. The business is that everyone should be ready to satisfy the office routine work, or satisfy the managing director. But how one can see the managing director is satisfied or not? Immediately in the office, in every department, there is a superintendent. So if the superintendent is satisfied, you must know the managing director is satisfied. Similarly, you are under the direction of your spiritual master. If you see that the spiritual master is satisfied, then you should know that Krsna is satisfied. That is confirmed by Visvanatha Cakravarti: yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah. And yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto ‘pi: IF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS NOT SATISFIED, THEN YOU ARE GONE TO HELL. YASYA APRASADAN NA GATIH KUTO ‘PI.
Thank you for your comments, Prabhus. Will try to reply individually later when I have more time.
I forgot to mention that I’m also personally very angry with Aindra das for writing that book because I have never ever had any thoughts like that and so why did I have to be exposed to such garbage – such poison – thanks to him? He has infected others’ minds too (and especially our vulnerable young folks) with his creepy way of seeing the Lord and His transcendental pastimes. I think the man is sick.
The other question I have is why was he allowed to get away with this for so long? What kind of management do we have in Prabhupada’s Krishna-Balarama today that would turn a blind eye to this infection? Was he bringing in many visitors – and thus donations – which were hard to refuse and so they tolerated him? Surely they knew this was sahajiya business, no? The management there is also implicated in this rascaldom. Now his sahajiya message has infiltrated the movement all over the world via YouTube videos, etc. because no one stopped it from spreading from within ISKCON. There should have been zero tolerance for this nonsense in Srila Prabhupada’s temple and that would have stopped it from proliferating so far and wide in the ISKCON world. He should have been told to at least go back to the Narayana Swami group and do his business there. So now Aindra is very deep in hot water:
“If a devotee commits vaisnava-aparadha, his offense is like a mad elephant uprooting and trampling his creeper of devotion; afterwards the creeper’s leaves dry up and become lifeless.”
(Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 19.156)
“If one does not care for the verdict of the śāstras and dares blaspheme a Vaiṣṇava, he suffers life after life because of this.”
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.10.25, Purport)
I wish that I had never looked at this book in the first place. I think it should be burned and taken down from all websites. It’s the lowest of the low.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada who tried so hard to save us all from this type of nonsense.
“Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare”
Thanks for your feedback.
All prabhus are correct in their assessments. Now let’s keep his protests against the GBC Gurus and also his premature assumptions of Raganuga bhakti privet among us in this venue. We hardly benefit either way. We can not endorse his ideas against the GBC ,just to score some points to our favor,and we can not afford to be associated with his cheap auto estimation of eternal associate.
LW says: ” ………… Now his sahajiya message has infiltrated the movement all over the world via YouTube videos, etc. because no one stopped it from spreading from within ISKCON. ……….. ”
The ineffective management of the Leaders / Gurus of all kinds of the present Iskcon have brought upon Iskcon and its members world wide such degradation, and Aindra das happened to be one of a part or a parcel of the Sahajiaism system of degradation through which the personal desire for gratifying through such activities fulfill the agenda of the Individual conditioned soul at various levels under the strong influence of the mode of material nature.
In an other words, such Jiva, remains under the influence of a kind of subtle intoxication to gratify the enjoyment for name and fame at his status with the Iskcon. Perhaps, that is one of the reason why Aindra dasa did not smell any odour of gas leakage in his place before he lit the fire of the ghee lamp for the Aarati. Perhaps, he was living under that subtle gratifying influence as stated.
There is an other reason why Aindra dasa never ever mentioned in glorifying Srila Prabhupada while he was with the Iskcon because he knew perhaps out side of Iskcon, he could not easily realize his personal agenda.
So, there are as many reasons to believe or not to believe in him as a Sadhu.
Now that we know and understand who Aindra dasa was and what was his personal agenda, a wise person does not get disturbed by such activities of the bewildered Individuals when such activities do differ from the Instructions of all the bona fide Gurus coming in the disciplic succession particularly the Instructions from our present day Acharaya, Jagat Guru His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada Ki Jaya.
Amar Puri Prabhu.
I think your assessment of the situation here is spot on and contrary to my earlier statements I am encouraged by the fact that this forum’s view as to the position of Aindra Das has gained some consensus.
Once a whiff of Sahajia mentality comes into the picture this is akin to plague or poisonous virus which is highly infectious and destructive which strangles our devotional creeper. As the whole world is diseased and toxic we can only strive to keep ourselves immunized by always taking shelter of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions as spiritual life is a razors edge
Daso Smi
Sudarsana.
Balaram das:
On December 2nd 1970, Srila Prabhupada wrote to Bhakti Vaibhava Puri maharaja>>
“My dear Puri Maharaj,
Perhaps you are my only Godbrother who has appreciated my humble service to the cause of Guru Gauranga”
Unfortunately BV Puri Maharaj did not accept the system of ritvik initiation after the physical departure of Srila Prabhupada, but he also says the guru must still receive the appointment and blessing from his own guru (which Srila Prabhupada never gave to any disciple).
Mahesh: these Godbrothers of Srila Prabhupada came in DIRECT touch with TWO Maha Bhagavatas: Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Prabhupada – YET they were UNABLE to ACCEPT them.
If you study the above letter carefully Srila Prabhupada uses the word “Perhaps” basically THIS tells you EVEN THAT is NOT SURE. “Perhaps” means UNCERTAIN or MAYBE. Srila Prabhupada KNEW these Godbrothers could NOT be TRUSTED. No wonder he did not accept the Ritvik System. And —this letter with “Perhaps” was On December 2nd 1970, Srila Prabhupada wrote to Bhakti Vaibhava Puri maharaja. BUT later in 1975 this is—- 5 years AFTER THIS Srila Prabhupada made it VERY clear: So I have now issued orders that all my disciples should avoid ALL of my godbrothers.PLEASE AVOID THEM:
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Visvakarma, November 09, 1975
“Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated September 3, 1975 with the enclosed statement about Van Maharaja. So I have now issued orders that all my disciples should avoid ALL of my godbrothers. THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY DEALINGS WITH THEM NOR EVEN CORRESPONDENCE, NOR SHOULD THEY GIVE THEM ANY OF MY BOOKS OR SHOULD THEY PURCHASE ANY OF THEIR BOOKS, NEITHER SHOULD YOU VISIT ANY OF THEIR TEMPLES. PLEASE AVOID THEM.”
Another point is– TO THE DISCIPLES, HOWEVER, Srila Prabhupada’s instructions were VERY clear EVEN IN 1968:
REGARDING BHAKTI PURI, TIRTHA MAHARAJA, THEY ARE MY GOD-BROTHERS AND SHOULD BE SHOWN RESPECT. BUT YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY INTIMATE CONNECTION WITH THEM AS THEY HAVE GONE AGAINST THE ORDERS OF MY GURU MAHARAJA.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Pradyumna, February 17, 1968
“REGARDING THE BOOK LIST: “LORD GAURANGA” BY S.K. GHOSE AND VEDER PANCHAYA BY BON MAHARAJA ARE USELESS AND YOU MAY NOT GET THEM. The other books and the Gaudiya paper are acceptable. If you have free use of Xerox machine you may make copies, of some of the smaller works. REGARDING BHAKTI PURI, TIRTHA MAHARAJA, THEY ARE MY GOD-BROTHERS AND SHOULD BE SHOWN RESPECT. BUT YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY INTIMATE CONNECTION WITH THEM AS THEY HAVE GONE AGAINST THE ORDERS OF MY GURU MAHARAJA.”
Further on Srila Prabhupadas Godbrothers:
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2260.htm
My comments and Questions to LW Prabhu WHAT he says in his comments are appended in CAP. letters below his message ;
” With regards to making a living in this crazy world, etc., all we can do is our humble best. Because of what’s going on in the movement now, we’re in exile and so we just have to “do the needful,” as Prabhupada often said. He also stated that everyone should try to serve Krishna “to the best of our individual capacity.
AGREED.
” In an ideal world we’d all be living together and helping one another in a wonderful spiritual society with Srila Prabhupada in the center.
LIVING TOGETHER MEANS HAVING ASSOCIATION OF EACH OTHER LIKE MINDED PERSON. THAT IS WHAT WE DO WHEN WE VISIT AND READ SRILA PRABHUPADA’S MESSAGE ON THIS WEB PAGE AND COMMENT AS IT BECOMES NECESSARY. OFCOURSE, KEEPING SRILA PRABHUPADA AND HIS VANI IN THE CENTER KEEP ALL OF US UNITED. THAT IS A FACT. ISN’T IT ?
But unfortunately it’s not an ideal world. Krishna and Prabhupada understand that, so we just have to carry on and somehow or other and pray for Srila Prabhupada’s mercy, guidance and forgiveness. He knew that we weren’t perfect, but he accepted us anyway — and he will still accept us if we simply remain humble and faithful to him.
YES, ABOVE IS ALSO TRUE BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE READERS OF THIS WEB SITE SUBSCRIBE TO IT.
Devotional service is continuous and so we can all look forward to meeting Srila Prabhupada in the future for further training. Krishna consciousness is all-auspicious and full of hope.
IN OUR PRACTISING RESPECTIVE DEVOTIONAL SERVICE TO OUR GURU MAHARAJA SRILA PRABHUPADA, ARE WE NOT FEELING or MEETING SRILA PRABHUPADA’S PRESENCE IN ONE WAY i.e. READING FROM HIS VANI or THE OTHER i.e. PERFORMING GURU PUJA IN OUR DAILY ROUTINE ?
IF IT IS SO, THEN, WHERE IS THE QUESTION OF MEETING SRILA PRABHUPADA IN THE FUTURE FOR FURTHER TRAINING AS YOU SAID ?
HAVE SRILA PRABHUPADA NOT GIVEN ALL THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR TRAINING PURPOSE TO MAKE OUR RESPECTIVE LIVES SUBLIME IN CULTIVATING KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS ?
PRABHU, CAN YOU PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ?
Haribol Amar Puri Prabhu,
Thank you for your comments. I’ll try to reply.
You wrote: “LIVING TOGETHER MEANS HAVING ASSOCIATION OF EACH OTHER LIKE MINDED PERSON. THAT IS WHAT WE DO WHEN WE VISIT AND READ SRILA PRABHUPADA’S MESSAGE ON THIS WEB PAGE AND COMMENT AS IT BECOMES NECESSARY. OFCOURSE, KEEPING SRILA PRABHUPADA AND HIS VANI IN THE CENTER KEEP ALL OF US UNITED. THAT IS A FACT. ISN’T IT ?”
Yes, of course, we’re associating with devotees online here with Srila Prabhupada in the center, and that’s a great thing, no doubt (with thanks to the editors). But I personally don’t consider it ideal that devotees are scattered here and there and are unable to take advantage of the mercy available in observing bona fide Deity worship with installed Deities, mangal arotika and morning program with enthusiastic godbrothers and godsisters, Tulasi worship, temple prasadam, etc. Associating via Internet is still not the same as living in a community, otherwise Srila Prabhupada wouldn’t have instructed us to start farm communities, grow our own food, live simply, establish varnasrama, live with devotees, etc. He would have said, “Everyone buy computers and stay in your room and associate through virtual communications instead of in real life.” Where do we find that instruction from Srila Prabhupada?
Yes, we can use modern facilities and technology in Krishna’s service, but what happens if the electricity goes off, or the Internet goes down, or you come down with a serious illness? How will your online devotee friends come to help you? You (and I) will be all alone at the mercy of the demoniac society. Websites are not the ultimate answer or the alternative society that Srila Prabhupada wanted. They will go when the webmaster passes on. Then what? Where is the shelter then? Personally (and you’re free to disagree, of course), I don’t think we should put our faith in the modern society and technologies. They are temporary and fleeting.
You wrote: “IN OUR PRACTISING RESPECTIVE DEVOTIONAL SERVICE TO OUR GURU MAHARAJA SRILA PRABHUPADA, ARE WE NOT FEELING or MEETING SRILA PRABHUPADA’S PRESENCE IN ONE WAY i.e. READING FROM HIS VANI or THE OTHER i.e. PERFORMING GURU PUJA IN OUR DAILY ROUTINE ?
“IF IT IS SO, THEN, WHERE IS THE QUESTION OF MEETING SRILA PRABHUPADA IN THE FUTURE FOR FURTHER TRAINING AS YOU SAID ?”
Yes, surely. But I know for myself that I’m not going back to Godhead at the end of this lifetime. So in my next life I don’t want to accept some other guru. I want Srila Prabhupada. He has so kindly promised to take his sincere followers back home, but for me it will take more than one lifetime, I’m afraid. So I want to go wherever Srila Prabhupada is for more training in Krishna consciousness. I haven’t even begun to practice devotional service properly. I need to continue in the next life (and for probably many more lifetimes as well). “He is my lord, birth after birth.”
“HAVE SRILA PRABHUPADA NOT GIVEN ALL THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR TRAINING PURPOSE TO MAKE OUR RESPECTIVE LIVES SUBLIME IN CULTIVATING KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS ?”
Most certainly, but there is always the ideal and then the reality. The reality for me is that I need more training. I’m not advanced enough to completely surrender everything in this one life. I know that to be true, for me anyway. I don’t want to take advantage of Srila Prabhupada and I don’t want him to have to come back to this world, but how will I ever realistically overcome my deep-seated anarthas all in one go? So I’m just being honest and practical about it. I need Prabhupada’s personal help and association. I’m not so advanced that I can become self-realized by just reading his books and listening to his tapes on my own. So far that looks like all I can do (considering the state of the movement and the age of Kali), but I always pray to Srila Prabhupada that he will please take me wherever he is so that I can get trained up personally by him, and I ask for his mercy that I’ll never deviate even an inch so that I can serve him properly, as he so rightly deserves.
“You have asked if it is true that the Spiritual Master remains in the material universe until all of His disciples are transferred to the Spiritual Sky. The answer is yes, this is the rule.”
(Srila Prabhupada letter, July 11, 1969)
Anyway, this is my humble view, but you may have another way of seeing it, and I welcome your feedback. Thanks for listening. Haribol.
Yes, I agree with your point of view, LW Prabhu that Sadhu Sanga is very important. Sanga means personal association of the Sadhus which triggers to form the DETERMINATION for further advancement in cultivating Krsna Consciousness. No doubt about it.
That is why we here in Montreal with handful family and friends try to achieve such Association which is not that easy, mind you.
The same very token of appreciation keeping the association of the like minded people over the available modern facility of internet I did mention that that which is not the ideal association as you described it very nicely. Nevertheless, association is there. The proof is that I am sharing my thoughts with you and others via this facility of the web site which is very much appreciated.
Regarding Srila Prabhupada’s letter quoted below ;
“You have asked if it is true that the Spiritual Master remains in the material universe until all of His disciples are transferred to the Spiritual Sky. The answer is yes, this is the rule.”
(Srila Prabhupada letter, July 11, 1969)
Yes, Srila Prabhupada remains present either physically or via His VANI as long as the bona fide VANI lasts. So, in order to get trained up in the KC. the Quality of ONES ‘ DETERMINATION is needed.
Make no mistake. Of course you are advanced. Otherwise you would not know in the SELF check process of your advancement in the KC which proves that you are a HONEST and HUMBLE person. You have these necessary qualities which require to cultivate KC.
However, PERHAPS you lack or limit DETERMINATION on account of the unsuitable circumstances you are surrounded in your daily routine which deters your further determination. That is simply a check point. Why I am saying that ? It is because I do also SELF check and improve my personal situation to make suitable for further advancement in cultivating KC. That is my personal experience I am sharing with you LW Prabhu.
Hope it helps you as it is very helpful to me.
All Glories to our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada.
Thanks Prabhu, but I’m not humble – I’m a fool. You’re partially right that I lack determination – I lack everything good and embrace all things bad. Please carry on and best wishes in all your efforts.
Hare Krsna.