The Movement is More Than The Institution
(Lecture starts approx. at 1:32)
“We were all asked by Srila Prabhupada to help Him fulfill His Spiritual Master’s wishes to
spread the sankirtan movement in the west. The institution is one of the tools He employed
The institution is not the same as the movement. As the part is not equal to the whole.”
Dear Disciples of Srila Prabhupada, and those desirous of being His disciple,
I have witnessed the many speculations on how to revive the institution, ISKCON as a necessity for the continuation of Srila Prabhupada’s mission to spread the Maha Mantra to every town and village.
Some devotees have tried and to some degree been successful in exposing the deviations that have derailed the progress. But the deviates are still firmly entrenched.
I have remained silent solely to ensure that I have reviewed everyone’s expression of their perspective or speculation before I point out the solution that is to me self-evident. It is surprising that so many devotees cannot see the obvious.
I am to a degree remaining anonymous to avoid the attacks from the insane and criminal and deviates that will be understandably offended by my statements because this declaration totally dis-empowers all of these deviates.
However I am confident that any devotee/disciple that considers these statements thoroughly before reacting will see and feel within their hearts the truth of the matter. We have gone too far off the track for the methods of the past to be effective in reviving the institution and it is attachment and disinformation that keeps so many devotees convinced that ISKCON is the mission. It is stated in the book Blazing Sadhus that when Srila Prabhupada started the ISKCON Society in 1966 he said: “ISKCON is a great tool we can use to spread our Hare Krishna chanting. If it is not helpful, we can dissolve it.” This firmly established that the institution is not the mission. It is merely a tool of the mission. The mission is not dependent upon it.
If Srila Prabhupada was unattached to it we must be too. Therefore our real concern is the mission not the institution and we must focus our revival in the right category or our efforts will be frustrated. And this has proven to be true since the deviates are still in control after 35 years of the sincere trying for reform.
I firmly believe that Srila Prabhupada is still directing this mission and this document is a revelation of His solution to the theft of the inheritance of His disciples by the deviates.
Please read the attached document with that point of view and share it with all of the devotees of this movement so everyone can consult Srila Prabhupada within their heart for confirmation. The sincere will agree and the deviates will complain.
“The dogs may bark but the caravan will pass”. This path of empowerment is the proven method practiced by Srila Prabhupada for sustenance of the mission.
All Glories To Srila Prabhupada !
Advaita das (ACBSP)
ranknfilebhakta@gmail.com
—————-
Document of Inheritance for HDG Disciples
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/documents/Document_of_Inheritance_for_HDG_Disciples.pdf
See the video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF5kflFa9DM
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5q9cXXGoa7RIqLciC-_VSg
Hare Krsna.
Some good points. Thank you.
However I think you should reconsider the wording in your conclusion:
“Please read the attached document with that point of view and share it with all of the devotees of this movement so everyone can consult Srila Prabhupada within their heart for confirmation.”
I don’t think we need to read any document so that we can consult Srila Prabhupada within our hearts. We can each do that on our own at any time without any conditions.
Also the following sounds a tad arrogant (although I’m sure you don’t mean it to):
“The sincere will agree and the deviates will complain.”
Everyone should be free to express their own point of view, no?
Thanks again. Jaya Prabhupada!
LW,
You miss understand my statement. You are right ;one does not ‘need the document’ to understand SP.
But you do need to read it so you can consider the contents.
The statement; “The sincere will agree and the deviates will complain.” Is a fact not an opinion or point of view.
The modus operendi of the deviates is to make you feel guilty if you find fault with their bad behavior. or defend yourself or the Spiritual master (in this case) against their assault. But it is a fact that they will complain and we can anticipate that. We must not let the concern over making an offense upon the offenders deter us from defending SP from their deviations, because that is exactly what they want to happen. It is a perverted psychology deviates use constantly. Do not complain so they can keep getting away with the bad behavior as opposed to stopping it and repenting and doing the right thing.
And yes please express your point of view.
AD
I see the validity in what you are saying especially the point about the ”Institution” which in spite of the best efforts of Srila Prabhupada (and previous Acharyas such as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur) have fallen victim to complete corruption and deviation. This is one of the main reasons that the Amish do not have churches, but rather their own land where they can have programs at their own homes (like nam hatta) and live simply off the land without becoming entangled in city and suburban existence.
The agrarian lifestyle that the Amish pursue is most conducive for spiritual life (the only difference being that many of them eat flesh) and their programs are not ‘public’ but more parochial arrangements of friends, family etc. Religious institutions and charitable organizations are being increasingly infiltrated and controlled according to a kind of ‘corporate hierarchy’ structure where the ones who are working ”on the coalface” work for nothing, while the “leaders” and CEO’s are drawing huge salaries.
This is why the ”Institution” is doomed to fail because it ‘mirrors’ mainstream society which is also run by madmen and corporate psychopaths which affords the Institution protection, through infiltration by the same demonic mindset.
Your humble servant
Sudarsana
Hare Krsna Prabhu,
Fair enough. Sorry if I misunderstood.
You’re right that the statement, “The sincere will agree and the deviates will complain” is a fact; but others might see it as just your own personal opinion. Just a thought.
Jaya Prabhupada!
Dear Learned Readers,
A personal opinion or a point of view is known and understood by the Wise men based upon the LEVEL to its proportionate value to the Sincerity of the Truthfulness which determines the FACT to the agreement (an acceptance ) of it and/or disagreement (a complaint ) of it amongst the Sincere and the Deviate.
Make no mistake about it.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Note: the situation is ISKCON as an INSTITUTION has become another Gaudiya Math with their BOGUS Anti-Ritvik hodge-podge non-realized gurus so basically it is BURNED down: “SIMILARLY IN THIS INSTITUTION IF THERE IS A BAD DISCIPLE HE CAN BURN THE WHOLE INSTITUTION INTO ASHES”.
The ONLY way for the ISKCON as REAL MOVEMENT(the PRABHUPADANUGAS: the REAL HARE KRISHNA’S) to SUCCEED is to have ORIGINAL Pre 1977 books of Srila Prabhupada PRINTED, DISTRIBUTED , AND HAVING STRONG PREACHERS:
70-08-25. Letter: Bali-mardana
There are two verses in the Canakya Sloka how a family or an institution can be glorified or burned into ashes by one person. The Canakya Pandit says that if there is one tree in the forest producing nice aromatic flower, that one tree can glorify the whole forest by the flavor of its flower. Similarly if there is one tree in whose cavity there is a little fire, that one tree can burn into ashes the whole forest. SO THIS SIMILE IS APPLICABLE ANYWHERE. In a family if there is one good boy, he can glorify the whole family and similarly if there is bad boy he can turn the whole family into ashes. SIMILARLY IN THIS INSTITUTION IF THERE IS A BAD DISCIPLE HE CAN BURN THE WHOLE INSTITUTION INTO ASHES. The Governing Body Commission’s duty is therefore to see that every member is following the rules and regulations and chanting sixteen round regularly on the beads. I hope the GBC in cooperation with the Sannyasis in their touring program will be able to keep vigilance systematically in order to keep the Society as pure as possible.
SO WE HAVE TO BECOME VERY STRONG PREACHER. THEN THIS MOVEMENT WILL STAY. IF YOU SIMPLY TAKE THE TEMPLE WORSHIP, IT WILL NOT STAY VERY LONG.
740709mw.la
Prabhupāda: Now if they say that the killing means murdering, that means the people amongst whom Christ was preaching, they were accustomed to kill men. So what class of men they were? What was the society? A society of murderers. So what they will understand about religion, a murderer? (pause) So go further or return?
Jayatīrtha: We should probably turn around now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (pause) If you’re preaching honesty to a thief, you have to be careful that he’s not stealing your watch in the meantime.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: If you’re preaching honesty to a thief, he may steal your watch. So Jesus was trying to teach religion to murderers, so they murdered him.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya naśāntaye. (aside:) Don’t come very near. If you advise rascals, they’ll be angry. No good result. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye,payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. SO WE HAVE TO BECOME VERY STRONG PREACHER. THEN THIS MOVEMENT WILL STAY. IF YOU SIMPLY TAKE THE TEMPLE WORSHIP, IT WILL NOT STAY VERY LONG. Just like…
Hṛdayānanda: Especially the leaders must preach.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hṛdayānanda: Especially the leaders must preach.
Prabhupāda: And leaders means… If the leaders are good, then it will continue.
Bali Mardana: If they are not preaching, they are not leaders. They are bogus. (pause)
Prabhupāda: LEADERS MEANS THEY SHOULD BEHAVE IN SUCH A WAY SO THAT BY FOLLOWING THEM, OTHERS WILL BE BENEFITTED. THAT IS LEADER.
Jayatīrtha: That’s a perfect definition, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: That’s a perfect definition. That should be in the dictionary, like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that for definition?
Jayatīrtha: The… A leader means one that if someone follows him, he’s benefitted.
Prabhupāda: That is leader.
Note: “AND IF THERE ARE NO MORE TEMPLES, THEN THE BOOKS SHALL REMAIN” this means Srila Prabhupada is here to STAY as Diksa guru AS LONG AS HIS BOOKS are on the planet.
73-11-08. Letter: Hamsaduta:
Yes, I want that you give me the facility to write my books, but I can attend some meetings of important people and elites. You have taken the right view of the importance of my books. Books will always remain. That was the view of my Guru Maharaja, and I also have taken it. Therefore I started my movement with my books. And we shall be able to maintain everything with the sales of the books. The temples will be maintained by the book sales, AND IF THERE ARE NO MORE TEMPLES, THEN THE BOOKS SHALL REMAIN.
Note: Srila Prabhupada and his books there is no difference: THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
The SERVICE of the spiritual master IS ESSENTIAL. IF THERE IS NO CHANCE TO SERVE THE SPIRITUAL MASTER DIRECTLY, A DEVOTEE SHOULD SERVE HIM BY REMEMBERING HIS INSTRUCTIONS. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. IN HIS ABSENCE, THEREFORE, HIS WORDS OF DIRECTION SHOULD BE THE PRIDE OF THE DISCIPLE.
Note: ISKCON institution or no Institution Srila Prabhupada will SUCCEED as Diksa Guru: ” But one who is pure devotee, his business cannot be stopped”.
S.B. Lecture 1.2.6. Calcutta. Feb 26th, 1974
It cannot be checked. There may be so many hindrances. But one who is pure devotee, his business cannot be stopped.
Note: these Anti Ritvik bogus gurus etc are going under the guise of SO-CALLED SVAMIS, YOGIS, PHILANTHROPISTS, WELFARE WORKERS etc. However, this is now being countered by the those who Srila Prabhupada calls the PERFECT DISCIPLES(maybe? Srila Prabhupada is giving PERFECTION to those who TRY and RELIEVE the situation BY SINCERELY FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTIONS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER?)
THE PERFECT DISCIPLES OF THE ACARYA TRY TO RELIEVE THE SITUATION BY SINCERELY FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTIONS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER
SB 4.28.48 P Puranjana Becomes a Woman in the Next Life
Whenever an acarya comes, following the superior orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or His representative, he establishes the principles of religion, as enunciated in Bhagavad-gita. Religion means abiding by the orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Religious principles begin from the time one surrenders to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is the acarya’s duty to spread a bona fide religious system and induce everyone to bow down before the Supreme Lord. One executes the religious principles by rendering devotional service, specifically the nine items like hearing, chanting and remembering. UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN THE ACARYA DISAPPEARS, ROGUES AND NONDEVOTEES TAKE ADVANTAGE AND IMMEDIATELY BEGIN TO INTRODUCE UNAUTHORIZED PRINCIPLES IN THE NAME OF SO-CALLED SVAMIS, YOGIS, PHILANTHROPISTS, WELFARE WORKERS AND SO ON. Actually, human life is meant for executing the orders of the Supreme Lord, and this is stated in Bhagavad-gita (9.34):
man-mana bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaisyasi yuktvaivam
atmanam mat-parayanah
“Engage your mind always in thinking of Me and become My devotee. Offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me.”
The main business of human society is to think of the Supreme Personality of Godhead at all times, to become His devotees, to worship the Supreme Lord and to bow down before Him. THE ACARYA, THE AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE OF THE SUPREME LORD, ESTABLISHES THESE PRINCIPLES, BUT WHEN HE DISAPPEARS, THINGS ONCE AGAIN BECOME DISORDERED. THE PERFECT DISCIPLES OF THE ACARYA TRY TO RELIEVE THE SITUATION BY SINCERELY FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTIONS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. At the present moment practically the entire world is afraid of rogues and nondevotees; therefore this Krsna consciousness movement is started to save the world from irreligious principles. Everyone should cooperate with this movement in order to bring about actual peace and happiness in the world.
Hare Krsna Mahesh Raja,
Thank you for your in depth response.
I agree with your points.
My position is that ALL of HDG’s disciples need to accept the roll of leader because the bogus leaders have gone rogue. They are now avaisnava.
If we are to resuscitate the movement (not the institution) we need all hands on deck. i postulate that if every disciple takes the responsibility to make 2 new devotees a year with the authority they actually received from HDG (but was stolen by the institution) the confidence and faith can be restored in everyone and the re growth can start.
We do not need the temples. We need the original books. (And the edited versions must be stopped)
If we can let go of the reform the institution illusion and take faith directly in HDG we can move on, but everyone was raised in the institution conception of the movement and is simply stuck feeling they need that structural support to be a great devotee and contribute to the dynamic expansion again.
It was done ALL ALONG under the ritik method and it flourished, so it will again. PS said ‘don’t change anything” This theft of power by the deviates has be the cause of the uncertainty of the Rank N File devotees. This is what I plan on changing.
Your comments tell me you are ready to do the same. Just let go of the institution illusion and concern and it will happen. Because you will hear HDG calling for your help again.
Advaita das
Amar Puri,
Well said
Advaita das
HAre Krsna Sudarsana das,
It is easy to see the demonic characteristics of the ‘modern world’ in the mentality of the institution.
We must rise above this degradation and unite on a platform of selfless devotional service to HDG once again . This is the healthy mentality.
To reform others in no longer the focus in my opinion. We need to accept our inherited responsibility to make newcomers qualified to become HDG’s disciples and give them that direct connection. I hope we can start to strengthen our selves and each other to push on with courage and confidence to every town and village.
Thanks for the comment.
Advaita das
It is not ‘easy to see” for the majority of devotees that is the problem, because of the power of the material energy. It is one thing for the ‘individual’ to ‘rise above the degradation’ (this is the process of self realization) but collectively that is another matter. Self realization is NOT a collective process (by definition) so why are we so much concentrating on another institution which already has some leaders which are simply making a show of worshiping Srila Prabhupada and others who are ‘blind’ followers.
Just by ‘rising above this degradation’ doesn’t insulate one from the actions of demonic persons within the institution, after all it was demonic persons within Gaudiya Math who poisoned Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur and also demonic persons within ISKCON who poisoned AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (then proceeded to ”poison” everyone else!
Just a thought. Thank you for your reply.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Hare Krsna Sudarsana Das Vanacari,
It is not due to the material energy that the devotes cannot see the obvious. It is due to the disinformation by the deviates.
They have been mentally deceiving the rank N file devotees since 77 and viciously offended them all.
They are now insane and we do not need them to expand SP’s movement. Let go of the institution. It only distracts us from our duty.
Start making new students and deliver they to HDG as you were originally taught. Take back your power. Help your self, me and all of our god-brothers, preach!
The only defensive steps we need to take is to defend SP’s original books (from the second poisoning) and stop the revised versions in His name. The institution is not important nor the point. Get over it and preach to the young people.
Advaita das
The ‘deviates’ are bewildered by the material energy (and so are the ones who are unfortunate enough to become their ‘sycophants’) including most, if not all of us (at some point). But through the mercy of Srila Prabhupada some of us only ingested a ‘non fatal dose’ of poison, that’s all.
I got “over it’ a long time ago. I never said that the ‘institution’ was important so why are you saying like this? Why are you making assumptions that I haven’t ‘let go of the institution’? Why are you artificially trying to assume some sort of superiority? Why should you think that I would want to help you? I do not even know who you are! (but I am gradually finding out). Is it because you think that you have ‘created’ some sort of vaisnava Magna Carta and think that everyone is going to praise you and rally around your own personal vision of what Srila Prabhupada wants.
You will have to make a bit more of an effort than that.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Sudarsana das Prabhu: Why are you making assumptions that I haven’t ‘let go of the institution’? Why are you artificially trying to assume some sort of superiority? Why should you think that I would want to help you? I do not even know who you are! (but I am gradually finding out). Is it because you think that you have ‘created’ some sort of vaisnava Magna Carta and think that everyone is going to praise you and rally around your own personal vision of what Srila Prabhupada wants.
Mahesh: Good points Sudarsana Prabhu.
Advaita das: i postulate that if every disciple takes the responsibility to make 2 new devotees a year with the authority they actually received from HDG (but was stolen by the institution) the confidence and faith can be restored in everyone and the re growth can start.
Mahesh: Example is better then precept. Show us by YOUR example. You go and make those devotees and show us HOW it is done.
Hare Krsna Sudarsana,
To present a different point of view does not automatically mean the assumption of superiority. I am presenting the information SP wants me to present. Yes my presentation is faulty but the message is the important point. I hope you hear and consider the principle point and excuse my imperfection along the way.
“Why should you think that I would want to help you?”
Because vaisnavas are merciful and offer support and encouragement to each other. I thought you would want to support all of your god brothers. Not just me nor excluding me.
” Is it because you think that you have ‘created’ some sort of vaisnava Magna Carta and think that everyone is going to praise you and rally around your own personal vision of what Srila Prabhupada wants.” (?)
My presentation is of the historic facts from the statements, actions and experience of Sp association. If you see it as a sort of Magna Carta for the vaisnavas; I would agree it has significant meaning for the liberation of the vaisnavas from those deviating and controlling.
The rest of the statement is faultfinding speculation. No comment.
Advaita Das
Here you go again assuming what I think!
“I thought you would want to support all of your God brothers. Not just me nor excluding me”.
Why do you assume that I would want to support all of them?
Here’s some of the “God brothers” I wouldn’t support …….. liars, thieves, poisoners, pedophiles, murderers, career psuedo-spiritualists, cowards, deviants, psychopaths, sociopaths, ambitious materialists, snakes, sleeze-bags, rapists, child-rapists, back-stabbers, hypocrites, pompous reprobates, offenders of Srila Prabhupada, pretenders, trippers, smartas, power-mongers, boy-buggerers, book changers, mayavadi huggers, money screwers, slime-bags (Did I mention Elvis Impersonators?)………………………..
…………………………….and of course people I DON’T KNOW!
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Sudarsana Prabhu wrote: “Did I mention Elvis Impersonators?”
Ha ha… good one!
Did you know there is actually a devotee who does Elvis impersonations?
He goes by the name of El Visnu!
Seriously, he actually exists.
It’s a mad, mad, mad, mad world!
Well I guess you have got to make a living! Actually there are more than one Elvis Impersonators but they are more ‘clandestine’ and a bit harder to spot (without the rhinestone suits) but like to ”put on a show” all the same. One ‘dead giveaway’ though is once they are in possession of a microphone (or a megaphone) it is very difficult for them to let go of it! You have to prize that little sucker straight out of their vice-like grip! Ha.Ha!!!!!!!!!
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Ha ha!
You wrote: “One ‘dead giveaway’ though is once they are in possession of a microphone (or a megaphone) it is very difficult for them to let go of it!”
Kinda sounds like the phony gurus, doesn’t it?
As for “El Visnu,” this fellow doesn’t actually do it onstage for money, but he preaches Krishna consciousness using his Elvis voice and mannerisms. (Very funny.) I’m not sure how bona fide it is, but at least he’s not a liar, thief, poisoner, pedophile, murderer, career pseudo-spiritualist, coward, (gross) deviant, psychopath, sociopath, ambitious materialist, snake, sleeze-bag, rapist, child-rapist, back-stabber, hypocrite, pompous reprobate, offender of Srila Prabhupada, pretender, tripper, smarta, power-monger, boy-buggerer, book changer, mayavadi hugger, money screwer, slime-bag!!!
Hare Krsna.
I would like to ask you:
When and where did Srila Prabhupada say? “ISKCON is my body”
Because an institution means a leader and order , discipline too.
Paramadvaiti did that in similar way. Yes I know he usurpes Srila Prabhuda’s position. But he stated that Srila Prabhupada was not ISKCON.
I only try to inquire.
Hare Krsna Marica,
I do not know. But I do know that the institution is not the movement ( rather a part of) and SP is in charge of the movement. Align your service with His wishes and not anyone else.
Follow your vows and Sp’s instruction on how to live a KC life.
Preach devotion to Krsna as given in the Gita and deliver the new students to HDG. That is all it takes. HDG is empowered to take them from there and He will, just like He is helping you and me.
Advaita das
Hare Krsna, Advaita das
“Align your service with His wishes and not anyone else.”
No. I would like to serve those devotees who serve Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krishna Advaita Prabhu,
On January 13th you wrote: “And yes please express your point of view.” Thanks, so here goes (in the mood of friendly and constructive exchange).
In the heading to your document you speak of the “inherited rights” of “all” disciples of Srila Prabhupada. You may wish to reconsider this title and approach if you want to gain wider acceptance because it implies that those who were initiated when Srila Prabhupada was physically present are automatically gifted with some kind of superior position above all others. A humble disciple should naturally feel that the real “inheritance” from the spiritual master is service. Many were given initiation, but how many truly accepted Srila Prabhupada as their life and soul, birth after birth? It’s not simply a matter of rubber-stamping.
For this reason, I personally dislike the current practice of placing the guru’s initials after one’s name. When Prabhupada gave the initiates a spiritual name, he did not place “ACBSP” afterwards like some kind of title, as in PhD, MA, etc. If you look at the list of initiates, you’ll see the name and “dasa” or “devi dasi” at the end (no “ACBSP”):
http://sp.krishna.com/
(Also, please note the small “d” and not capital “D” for dasa and dasi.)
The reality is that until we become pure devotees, we are really only aspiring bhaktas or mixed devotees at best. So no one should artificially claim superior status. The newer disciples should not be made to feel inferior because they don’t have the rubber stamp of “ACBSP” behind their names. This smacks of false ego and elitism, in my humble view. And why should the newer devotees feel shackled and owned forever by “SDG” or “TKG” or “JPS”? I’m almost willing to bet that Tamal Krishna had his hand in this practice which obviously was not current when Srila Prabhupada was physically manifest.
You wrote: “The root deviation that has been the recurring problem from 1970 until this very day is: placing someone between Srila Prabhupada and his disciple.”
The first wave of Prabhupada disciples should not make the same mistake by placing themselves between Srila Prabhupada and the new disciples. Material age or time are not considerations in spiritual enlightenment. We cannot say that Srila Prabhupada is any less Krishna conscious than say, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, just because Prabhupada appeared later on, chronologically speaking. There is no time factor on the absolute platform. Those who come to Krishna consciousness hundreds or even thousands of years from now might be (or become) more advanced than devotees presently on the planet. Yes, respect is always there out of natural etiquette, but advancement is determined by spiritual realization and not by any reference to mundane time. So when Prabhupada disciples try to flaunt themselves as automatically advanced by dint of their age or years in the movement, it simply doesn’t wash.
You wrote: “The possibility of restructuring the institution back to the original format has been made impossible through legal, immoral and criminal maneuvering.”
Krishna can do anything. Srila Prabhupada said that “impossible is a word in a fool’s dictionary.” FYI, the GBC recently released the following statement:
“Srila Prabhupada, as the Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, is the preeminent guru for all members of ISKCON. All members of ISKCON, for all generations, are encouraged to seek shelter of Srila Prabhupada.”
OK, I know — they still mix up the siksa and diksa-gurus incorrectly for their own benefit, but still, this statement would have been completely unheard of from the GBC even ten years ago, what to speak of in 1978. Things are changing and Srila Prabhupada is once again becoming prominent in ISKCON, so there is always hope. When the big “super gurus” eventually die off (or bloop or whatever), who knows what will happen? There could be a total revolution within the institution. Let’s not underestimate or prematurely write off the future generations of devotees.
You wrote: “The movement is far greater than the institution, as Srila Prabhupada has a vast number of sincere followers that are not in the institution.”
Yes, true. But I suggest that those who are not in the “institution” per se, yet who worship Lord Krishna and Srila Prabhupada as His bona fide representative are the real ISKCON. Consider the name: “International Society for Krishna Consciousness.” Nowhere does Prabhupada call it an institution. It is a consciousness. So those who follow — wherever they may be — are in ISKCON. As Srila Prabhupada used to say: You are chanting Hare Krishna there, and I am chanting Hare Krishna here. So we are all “packed up together.” The unification is of consciousness and not of body. That is ISKCON – not brick and mortar. They may have the buildings for now, but that doesn’t mean they live in Prabhupada’s ISKCON. The rogues, rascals and imposters cannot destroy the real thing.
You wrote: “It is not the institution that matters; it is the level of Krsna Consciousness that is important.”
Agreed. Once again, ISKCON is not an institution. They have grabbed the outer shell or covering, but the soul of ISKCON is Krishna Consciousness as Prabhupada revealed and taught to us all. (Srila Prabhupada was — and is — so transcendentally intelligent and thoughtful on multiple levels, beyond all imagination.)
You wrote: “The Ritvik system is a system of direct links. Therefore we need to start with direct disciples that have the direct link to HDG. They can in turn give the direct link to the next generation of disciples. If however there is no direct relationship to HDG by initiation that person cannot give it to the next generation.”
Krishna and Prabhupada can use any damn fool as They like. I got the chanting from a popular poet of the day, and Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-Gita As It Is from a bookstore. In a few short years there won’t be any “direct” initiates on the planet. Does that mean that Srila Prabhupada’s mercy will be unavailable after that? Let’s not try to artificially puff ourselves up because of some so-called “direct” link. Prabhupada is always available to anyone, anywhere who is sincere at heart. No intermediary required. Of course, if a person wants formal initiation, then the ritvik process is there — but that is a priestly function which can be performed by any sincere follower and not just by so-called “direct” disciples.
Quite honestly, I’m not really sure what need there is for your paper. All of this has been written and said before in more or less similar ways. There have been hundreds (perhaps thousands) of such papers written and distributed since the 1980s. You even said yourself that “actions speak louder than words.” Words are still important, of course, otherwise Srila Prabhupada wouldn’t have placed so much emphasis on his books. But I can’t see anything here that really adds to the devotees’ body of knowledge. In fact, as mentioned above, it seems to me that you still have some things to work out in your understanding.
Anyway, that’s just my two cents, which isn’t worth much, I know. Please accept what you can and discard the rest. You don’t have to reply point by point — it’s not necessary. But I can’t really see you taking the devotee world by storm with this document, sorry to say. At any rate, best of luck.
(Note: For relevant quotes, just do an online search for “Prabhupada’s statements on the GBC” or something similar, and pick out what you like. I have other projects so I can’t really participate any further.)
Thanks for listening.
Haribol!
Hare Krsna Advaita Das!
Sudarsana Das Vanacari Prabhu is right. (18. January 2016 at 10:02 am)
An example: LW Prabhu calls you Advaita Prabhu and you calls him LW.
See at “Document of Inheritance for HDG Disciples” also.
“Yes, to call one another prabhu is all right, but not to become prabhu. To accept others as prabhu, and remain as servant is the idea. But because somebody is calling you prabhu, one should not become a prabhu, and treat others as servants. In other words, everyone should feel himself as servant, and not to think himself prabhu because he is being called prabhu. This will make the relationship congenial.”
(Letter to Himavati — Montreal 14 June, 1968)
Advaita das : We do not need the temples.
Mahesh: that is just BOGUS. Temples are PART AND PARCEL of the Hare Krsna Movement.
Advaita das: Just let go of the institution illusion and concern and it will happen.
Mahesh: Srila Prabhupada CREATED the ISKCON INSTITUTION. He did NOT say it is for letting go. ISKCON was formed so that devotees can take SHELTER under HIS DIRECTION. This means WE can NOT let go of INSTITUTION Srila Prabhupada WANTED. This is WHY the NEED for EXPOSING the gang of SLAVERY MAKING MONEY SCREWING BOGUS GBC MANUFACTURED “GURUS” and their SALARY PAID supporters . The effort is to CLEAN-UP the INSTITUTION as per Srila Prabhupada:
731209SB.LA Lectures
So this Krsna consciousness movement is a challenge to all the rascals and fools, that’s all. SO THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THIS MOVEMENT VERY SERIOUSLY, THEY SHOULD BE VERY SOBER AND UNDERSTAND AT LEAST YOU MUST EXPOSE ALL THESE RASCALS. THAT WILL BE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED BY KRSNA.
Thank you very much. (end)
SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA
730503mw.la Conversations
Prabhupada: No, it is Sanskrit. And in Bengal it is called vane asiya raja.(?) “In the forest a jackal has become king.” They are like that. Nila-varna-srigalavat.(?) When… There is big story about this jackal. I will tell you some. A jackal came in the village and he fell in the tub where, what is called, the water? No, no. The water man keeps the water for dipping, making
little bluish. For coloring. That blue, blue. So the washerman kept the dye water in a big tub, and the jackal fell in it. So jackal fell in it; he became blue, all blue. So he fled away, and all the animals said, “What is this animal? What is the animal? What is that animal? Oh?” All, even lion became surprised. “We have not seen this.” “So who are you, sir?” “I AM SENT BY GOD TO RULE OVER YOU.” “OH?” SO THEY BEGAN TO WORSHIP HIM AS GOD, AS LEADER. Then one day other jackals, they were crying, “Wa, wa,” but the jackals cannot stop. If others jackals cry, the jackal cannot stop. So he also began to “Wa, wa.” Oh, then, they, oh, this rascal is a jackal. Yavat kincin na bhasate. That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that “Here is a jackal.” SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA. NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, ALL POLITICAL THINGS, SOCIAL THINGS, EVERYTHING. THEY SHOULD BE ALL KICKED OUT. THEY SHOULD BE REPLACED BY KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. THEN PEOPLE WILL BE HAPPY. THIS SHOULD BE OUR PROGRAM. Our, this propaganda means to make people happy. It is not a business, to make business and take some money. And so many jackals have been arrested and resigned in your… You know that? Many jackals have been obliged to resign their post in the government.
Hare Krsna.
Once Krishnakant Prabhu put ISKCON SOCIETY – “ISKCON is my body” – into words very fine.
———————————–
Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON society, the one He founded, is the eternal manifestation of His spiritual potency in a “physical” form- temples, devotees, etc.
Unfortunatelly, after His departure, what we have now is just a dead body with no life, since no Srila Prabhupada is there – he exists only in name to attract people. ISKCON today attracts people because people are attracted to Srila Prabhupada, but AFTER that this attraction to Srila Prabhupada dissapears and is replaced with attraction for profit, adoration and distinction.
———————————-
So there are devotees who are simply presenting a document with present VERBATIM Srila Prabhupada’s written orders!
They do not want another parallel movement. They want Srila Prabhupada’s original movement.
Dear Learned Readers,
Only A Jiva Free FROM All Material desires can institute A Movement as our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada did establish an International Society of Krishna Consciousness aka ISKCON. for the benefit of US all Jivas.
The Movement is indeed Bigger and Greater than the Institution. Isn’t it ?
Now that Institution has been corrupted by its management, does that mean the movement has also become corrupted ?
If the answer is YES, then, what is the use to revive such corrupted Institution and its consciousness ?
If the answer is NO, then, let us take ONLY the UNCORRUPTED Consciousness of the Movement still available through Srila Prabhupada’s VANI to those who are sincere and serious to carry forward Krsna Consciousness in making our respective lives sublime without the corrupted institution.
Where is the problem ?
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krsna.
There is a good writing on PADA wbsite.
http://krishna1008.blogspot.hu/ ISKCON leaders vote for women guru policy
This is also shows that the bogus ISKCON will run in the future. Because the bogus gurus are looking for satisfaction of people.
Srila Prabhupada says that many people need for bogus masters.
The ritvik devotees can not cooperate each other because there are more ideas. To reform ISKCON or to start a new movement ( a new ISKCON)…
We should know what Srila prabhupada wants.
He gave us every knowledge in His books.So the Ritvik leaders should know the proper answer.
Yes! Marica Prabhu, well said. the truth will come out eventually.
The bogus GBC fools are playing into the hands of Maya as their tiny brains are only thinking of appeasing their senses and wimping out. The Women’s Liberation movement is into full swing in FISKCON but they do not know that this was originally orchestrated by the big bankers Rockerfellers and Rothschilds so that TWICE the population could be TAXED and because they, (like Adolph Hitler) are eugenicists and want to foster ”popuation control”. The first Womens Lib magazines were financed back in the 60s by the CIA (as they are only too happy to lend a hand when it comes to big money). So now these bogus GBC wimps have to ‘do what they are told’ and vote for more women ”gurus” because they are themselves slaves to their senses…….either ”vote” for women ”gurus” or NO ”laddhu” for you!
How pathetic can you get these sad GBC wimps are not Sadhu’s or even Brahmanas as they are just brainwashed by the Corporate and Banking sector (vaisya class) and beying ‘played like a fiddle’. They are just low class sudras and goondas with no temperance or stamina. Makes me want to throw up!
Yhs
Sudarsana
This is just symptomatic of who is ”controlling” ISKCON and who is behind the poisoning of Srila Prabhupada.
The Rockerfeller, Rothschilds, Morgan connection of oil monopolies and bankers and the people who infiltrate not just religious organizations but also welfare, philanthropic, political, or any group that would bring about social change, progress and dharma.
Gloria Steinem (editor of Ms magazine since the 60s) was a CIA agent long before this ”feminist” mag (rag) was started, controlled and funded by the CIA. The Ford ”Foundation” has also been a front for the CIA for decades.
(google ”The Ford Foundation and the CIA”)
Remember the tape recording of Srila Prabhupada’s poisoners? Who is the guy heard sniggering on the tape? That’s right Bhavananda. And guess who his closest pal is Alfred Brush Ford (Ambarish).
The Ford “Foundation” has long been associated with Fascism (as is the Rockerfeller “Foundation”). Hitler used to keep a photo of Henry Ford on his desk as he was a big supporter of the Nazis and supported them financially.
If everyone was to follow Srila Prabhupada’s TRUE message that would greatly threaten the demons plan to enslave the Worlds population this is why all the organizations in the world are infiltrated by demonic forces who’s plan is to immobilize men, emasculate men, promote homosexuality, and ”feminism” to make us all slaves of ”The State” run by God-less power-mongers.
Remember Srila Prabhupada’s warning about ”moneyed men”?
The destabilization of ISKCON is just another example of how these demons have everyone BRAINWASHED (That was George Harrison’s last album and his ‘parting shot!) through the media, TV, and ”news” commentators, journalists, celebrities. They are all peddling the same “political correct” bullshit! The persons we are told to look up to are materialists, whores, porn stars, prostitutes, lesbian show hosts and degenerate pop music ”celebrities” as it is the demons who control the media and manipulate popular opinion.
These so called women ”gurus” have no feminine qualities whatsoever, they should be ”burnt at the stake” for their past and present child abuse involvement and being disciples of Gloria Steinem. They themselves are brainwashed and poisoned by the desire to emasculate and denigrate the GBC even more as they artificially try to increase their false ”status” (a mink coat but no knickers!).
The male GBC ”leaders” have already been emasculated and neutered by these witches and by their own gutless, spineless, desire for power and sense gratification. What pathetic cowardly specimens they all are! All these people are parasites and scum with no understanding that they are being manipulated and ”played” like dumb animals by the power elite which is sending the whole planet to hell!
Guru mean that he is ‘nobody’s fool’ but these nitwits are being ‘fooled’ by everyone the Corporate and Banking giants, the CIA, corrupt politicians, media flunky’s, and the women also!
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Sudarsana Das Vanacari:These so called women ”gurus” have no feminine qualities whatsoever, they should be ”burnt at the stake” for their past and present child abuse involvement…..
Mahesh: the bogus GBC want to promote the bogus female diksa gurus in ISKCON because their female diksa gurus are PROSTITUTES. They want to have a company of PROSTITUTES but make it look like they are sadhus. The Anti Ritvik bogus gurus THEN can OPENLY have VERY INTIMATE dealings with their PROSTITUTES counter parts. On the Internet we hear Pratyatosa das’s wife wannabe female diksa guru Urmila dasi has been hanging around with boyfriend Bir Krishna Goswami. This is common knowledge to ALL.
These bogus wannbe female diska gurus (PROSTITUTES) of ISKCON should take lessons in MORAL conduct of RESTRICTED ASSOCIATION WITH MEN:
SB 1.10.16 P Departure of Lord Krsna for Dvaraka
SHYNESS IS A PARTICULAR EXTRA-NATURAL BEAUTY OF THE FAIR SEX, AND IT COMMANDS RESPECT FROM THE OPPOSITE SEX. This custom was observed even during the days of the Mahabharata, i.e., more than five thousand years ago. It is only the less intelligent persons not well versed in the history of the world who say that observance of separation of female from male is an introduction of the Mohammedan period in India. THIS INCIDENT FROM THE MAHABHARATA PERIOD PROVES DEFINITELY THAT THE LADIES OF THE PALACE OBSERVED STRICT PARDA (RESTRICTED ASSOCIATION WITH MEN), AND INSTEAD OF COMING DOWN IN THE OPEN AIR WHERE LORD KRSNA AND OTHERS WERE ASSEMBLED, THE LADIES OF THE PALACE WENT UP ON THE TOP OF THE PALACE AND FROM THERE PAID THEIR RESPECTS TO LORD KRSNA BY SHOWERS OF FLOWERS. It is definitely stated here that the ladies were smiling there on the top of the palace, checked by shyness. This shyness is a gift of nature to the fair sex, and it enhances their beauty and prestige, even if they are of a less important family or even if they are less attractive. We have practical experience of this fact. A sweeper woman commanded the respect of many respectable gentlemen simply by manifesting a lady’s shyness. Half-naked ladies in the street do not command any respect, but a shy sweeper’s wife commands respect from all.
Mahesh Raja Prabhu
What you are saying is very true as I have read many times in Mahabharata, Ramayana, Srimad Bhagavatam and Sri Chaitanya Charitamrita also. These ISKCON (wannabee ”bogus guru”) witches are disciples of Gloria Steinem (a puppet of the CIA) who is ALSO a paid Zionist rat and informer for her masters the illuminati. There is a notorious photo of her with her hands raised, making the sign of the illuminati pyramid and wearing a T-shirt with the words ”I had an abortion” written on it.
Perhaps the T-shirt should have read “I AM AN ABORTION!”
Sudarsana
The bogus GBC are only interested to sleep with their kept bogus wannabe female diksa guru PROSTITUTES they are TOTALLY USELESS when it comes to management of temples:
http://krishna1008.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/jayadvaita-swami-addresses-secret.html
73-12-09. Letter: Babhru
That Gaurasundara and Siddha-svarupa have sold the Temple in Hawaii and abandoned the beautiful Tulasi plants there is a great fall down on their parts. They did not ask my permission. If they wanted to go away they could have, BUT THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO SELL THE TEMPLE. IT IS ACTUALLY A CRIMINAL ACT ON THEIR PART. ANYONE WHO FOLLOWS THEM WILL ALSO FALL DOWN WITHOUT A DOUBT.
71-03-24. Letter: Satsvarupa
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 12th February, 1971 and have noted the contents carefully. It is very encouraging news to hear that we have one new center in Amherst, Mass. amidst so many prominent colleges. So the devotees there should be very actively engaged in preaching at these schools and especially introducing our literatures, as well as teaching any classes, if that is possible. We have got so many centers. Now we should concentrate on developing the existing centers nicely rather than randomly opening new ones. IF A TEMPLE HAS TO CLOSE DOWN IT IS A GREAT DISCREDIT. SO WE SHOULD WORK IN SUCH A WAY THAT ALL OUR CENTERS MAY PROSPER.
74-09-12. Letter: Hamsaduta:
Why did you close Edinburgh without asking me? Paramahamsa reports that you have closed the Edinburgh temple. Edinburgh was doing nicely. You can’t close a temple without asking me? Is this too much to do this? Our propaganda is opening temples, and you are closing them. We are not for closing but for increasing. I do not approve of this. If possible the Edinburgh temple must be re-opened again.
If you close the temple, what is the management? Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu pushed the Sankirtana movement, but He never said to close the Jagannatha temple or the Govindaji temple. In Edinburgh we had a nice house, why you have closed it? Why you have whimsically done this? If possible the Edinburgh temple must be re-opened. Don’t do anything whimsically without consulting me.
I MADE THE GBC TO GIVE ME RELIEF, BUT IF YOU DO LIKE THIS, THEN WHERE IS THE RELIEF. IT IS ANXIETY FOR ME. This is the difficulty, that as soon as one gets power, he becomes whimsical and spoils everything. What can I do? If anything has to be changed, that can be decided at the annual GBC meeting, but not whimsically.
I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF CLOSING EVEN A SMALL TEMPLE. IT IS NOT A PLAYTHING TO CLOSE A TEMPLE OR TO START A TEMPLE. WHEN WE OPEN A TEMPLE WE ARE INVITING KRSNA. SO YOU CAN’T SAY TO KRSNA, GO AWAY. YOU HAVE NO FEELING WHAT ARE THE IDEALS OF A TEMPLE. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS CONSIDER THAT WE HAVE INVITED LORD CAITANYA, LORD JAGANNATHA, AND RADHA KRSNA, AND IF WE CLOSE IT, IT IS AN INSULT. HOW CAN WE CALL THEM, AND THEN SAY GET OUT. WE SHOULD ALWAYS FEEL WHEN WE OPEN A TEMPLE THAT THE DEITY IS LIVING AND NOT DEAD STONE OR WOOD. IT IS A GREAT OFFENCE. BEFORE OPENING A TEMPLE IT MUST BE CONSIDERED A HUNDRED TIMES, AND AFTER OPENING IT CANNOT BE CLOSED. IT MUST BE MAINTAINED.
arcye visnau siladhir gurusu
nara matir Vaisnave jati buddhih
“One who considers the arca murti or worshipable Deity of Lord Visnu to be stone, the spiritual master to be an ordinary human being, and a Vaisnava to belong to a particular caste or creed, is possessed of hellish intelligence.”
If the Edinburgh house is still available, it must be re-opened.
74-09-14.GBC Letter: GBC Godbrothers
TO CLOSE A TEMPLE IS A VERY SERIOUS BUSINESS, AS WELL AS OPENING ONE. IT MEANS THAT WE ARE CALLING KRSNA TO COME AND RESIDE THERE. ONCE KRSNA IS THERE, WE CANNOT TELL HIM TO NOW LEAVE. WHIMSICALLY CLOSING A TEMPLE MEANS WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS DEVOTIONAL SERVICE AND VIOLATES BHAKTI. Only under very extraordinary conditions can a temple be closed when there is consultation. Even then a temple is not to be eliminated but moved to an other place.
We hope this meets you in good health.
Approved Signed
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Brahmananda Swami
Bali Mardan das
Bhagavan das
http://www.dandavats.com/?p=23790
“It is a fact however that the great sinister movement is within our Society.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, September 2, 1970)
Hare Krsna Sudarsana Das Vanacari Prabhu!
I respect you for your courage because you tell us the reality always.
ys marica
As far as the “Institution” goes the Illuminati and their agents (CIA, CFR and US Government) want that this Prabhupadanuga movement all ”follow behind ” and channel all our energies behind Bangalore and Madhu Pandit so as to ‘neutralize’ this movement and it’s potency based on Srila Prabhupada’s Vani. This is evident in the list of ”usual suspects” that are already associated with Madhu Pandit and the associated “agreements” that he has willingly signed up to which are in essence NOT based on the instructions of Srila Prabhupada (which he only pays ‘lip-service’ to!)
The ‘usual suspects’ are Monsanto (bankrolled by powerful fascists and eugenicists The Rockerfellers),
‘tricky’ Bill Gates (eugenicist, fascist and promoter of dangerous ”vacination programs” which are a front for genetic selection, chemical genocide and genetic manipulation together with beying a big shareholder of Monsanto), the Clintons who are also shareholders of Monsanto and promote this ‘environmental terrorism’ to promote ‘Corporate Feudalism’ to assist in the World domination of the Illuminati and also Narendra Modi (fascist long time supporter of the RSS and promoter of ”science and technology”) and last but not least Alfred Brush Ford (Ambarish Das) who is long been supporter of pedophile and poisoner of Srila Prabhupada, Bhavananda and who’s Ford ”Foundation” has been a front for the CIA for decades.
If we are going to be ‘gung ho’ about building or even maintaining a ‘structure’ (or Institution) based on the principals of Srila Prabhupada you should be well aware of the undeniable fact that the opposite demonic forces are already planning to dismantle it! To NOT recognize the ”signs” means that infection and decay have already manifested, due to either apathy, inertia, or a willingness to give in to envy, pride and greed.
There was a movie called ‘The Usual Suspects’. The most memorable line was ………………….”The greatest trick The Devil ever pulled was CONVINCING THE WORLD HE DIDN’T EXIST!”
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
This ‘population control’ genocide is happening NOW as we speak! Zika virus (spread by GM mosquitoes) are funded by Rockerfeller; and BILL AND MELINDA GATES! Why is Madhu Pandit aligning himself with these evil scum? Why are Prabhupadanugas aligning themselves with Madhu Pandit? Why are Prabhupadanugas aligning themselves with eugenicists and fascists? This isn’t Srila Prabhupada’s vani!
Madhu Pandit should be made to answer to these questions. Why are “prabhupadanugas” pussy-footing around with Madhu Pandit? It’s time some concrete action was taken against this pretender! This guy is a flunky of illuminati fascists. This guy has been ‘paid off’ by fascists. He is a traitor, collaborator, money-grabber and hypocrite. Doesn’t anyone have anything to say about this demon?
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Hare Krsna Sudarsana Prabhu!
( Sudarsana Das Vanacari says: 26. January 2016 at 3:40 am)
My question: What should Prabhupada anugas do in your opinion?
Perhaps does not “the fight against the bogus gurus” mean a solution?
Dear Marica Prabhu
In my opinion Madhu Pandit is a miscreant and should be discarded like a gangrenous limb. Madhu Pandit is himself a ‘bogus leader’ and a fool in spite of his unconvincing ‘theatrical overtures’ with regards to the ”bogus guru’s” in ISKCON. What is the difference between ‘bogus leader’ and ‘bogus guru’? Is there any real difference?……….simply semantics, that’s all!
Kali has sent this guy to test our resolve. Don’t fall for this trickster Madhu Pandit. He should be vigorously challenged and be made accountable. Why is he allowed to get away with this nonsense, this is all going to end very badly for him and anyone who aligns themselves with him!
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Dear Marica Prabhu,
I can only try to tell it , the way I see it and try to follow the best I can Srila Prabhupada’s vani. The result is up to Sri Krishna. As Kali Yuga becomes more degraded things will become more difficult but what other choice is there?
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
When Srila Prabhupada was questioned as to what the devotees should do during the upcoming World War Three, he replied:
Pancadravida: What will the devotees do while the war is going on?
Prabhupada: Chant Hare Krsna.
Devotees: Jaya! (laughter)
The following exchange occurred later on:
Ramesvara: …that if there is a war between Russia and America, there would be a nuclear war and they would pollute the whole atmosphere with radioactive particles which would kill everyone.
Prabhupada: It is already polluted.
Ramesvara: They say that this radioactive fall-out…
Prabhupada: The whole material world is polluted. Who will live here? A little, say, twenty years before, dying. After all, you have to die, twenty years after or twenty years before. So it is already polluted. That is humbugism. They will die at the end, but still they are trying to live. (kirtana in background growing progressively louder as Prabhupada approaches temple)
Tamala Krsna: Like they’re creating their own…
Prabhupada: This is the difference between man of knowledge and without knowledge. A man of knowledge will think, “After all, I have to die. So what is the difficulty, dying a few days more or before?” That is knowledge. And those who are not in knowledge, they are afraid of death. Best business is before the death comes let us finish our Krsna consciousness perfectly. That is wanted. Death will come. You cannot avoid it.
Ramesvara: They say that this radioactive fallout will pollute the air so that no crops can be grown.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. You shall die without food. Be(cause) after all, the death. In Bengal, it is called: more bhera ghalne (?): “The most misfortunate thing is death.” That will come. Therefore the best intelligence is how to avoid death.
Rupanuga: Become immortal.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is real intelligence, not to be bothered by these trifle temporary things that “I am dying twenty years before. If the situation was better, I would have lived more twenty years.” What is this mentality?
Devotee: Back to Godhead.
Ajata-satru: Yes, we can go back to Godhead.
Full conversation (“Preparing for World War Three”) here:
https://old.prabhupadavani.org/main/Walks/MW109.html
Jaya Prabhupada!
War is imminent, there is no denying this. The dynamic has changed from 40 years ago (1975) as Russian system now accepts religious worship. West Bengal (Mayapur) is a communist state but that doesn’t mean they are banning religious worship! Pakistan was very much pro American in 1975 and India pro Russia, but that has changed also as Pakistan is a refuge for Taliban and India are “doing more business” with USA. War is not about religion it is about power. There are no ”good guys and bad guys” that is just Hollywood Zionist propaganda. Some of those persons on this morning walk they think that the enemy is some external warring power but It WAS NOT THE RUSSIANS WHO MURDERED SRILA PRABHUPADA 2 YEARS LATER IT WAS ZIONIST AMERICANS! The same ones (hypocrites and demons) who are speaking with Srila Prabhupada in this exchange!
In the Kali Yuga the demonic nature IS WITHIN EVERYONE it is not some external thing. All the world is full of demons and Wars are fought only for greed and power. We should just chant Hare Krishna as Srila Prabhupada has stated, what else is there? I am only trying to explain the ‘dynamic’ that’s all, so that devotees are not cheated by demons and hypocrites who are taking the attention ‘by stealth’ away from Srila Prabhupada.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
I’m with you, Sudarsana Prabhu. You’re doing a great job. In fact, you’re practically the only one I know who has studied this matter deeply. Most people (including devotees, I’m afraid) couldn’t be bothered.
You wrote: “There was a movie called ‘The Usual Suspects’. The most memorable line was ………………….”The greatest trick The Devil ever pulled was CONVINCING THE WORLD HE DIDN’T EXIST!”
I think this line originated from a poem by Charles Baudelaire, if I’m not mistaken. Anyway, I thought you might be interested to know that FOX has just launched a new TV series called “Lucifer.” (Can they get any more blatant or obvious?) One reviewer writes:
“The series follow the story of the original fallen angel. Bored and unhappy as the Lord of Hell, Lucifer Morningstar (Tom Ellis) has abandoned his throne and retired to LA, where he owns Lux, an upscale nightclub…
“Not surprisingly, the show has inspired protests. The organization One Million Moms launched a petition urging Fox to scuttle the series, writing that it glorifies ‘Satan as a caring, likable person in human flesh.’ And Natural News’ Ethan A. Huff minced no words, telling us, ‘The Lucifer character will be offered up to the masses who watch Fox as a likable character with moral and ethical convictions, fulfilling the biblical account of this insidious demonic entity…. It’s only fitting, then, that this modern-day show produced by satanists [sic] would portray Lucifer as a type of benevolent god, since this was always his goal — to take the place of the real God. Whether you believe what the Bible says or not, this is the clear-as-day implication of this upcoming show that will soon be watched by presumably millions of people…
“While it seems unlikely that Lucifer’s producers actually are ‘Satanists,’ they assuredly are moral relativists. And such a mindset suffices for evil’s embrace. Apropos to this, an old cartoon in what, if my recollection is accurate, was New Yorker magazine showed the Devil addressing a group of people in Hell and saying (I’m paraphrasing), ‘There’s no right or wrong down here. It’s whatever works for you.'”
Although I don’t watch television or movies myself, I do keep up on the headlines to monitor how things are “progressing” (i.e. quickly going to hell) in modern society. You might also be interested to know that the X-FILES TV program has been revived. I’ve never seen it, but I did a quick search online and found the following video. If you don’t want to watch the full 6 minutes, then please watch from the 2:50 minute mark and you’ll see how open and obvious they have now become:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgj_wlW-Ty4
Personally, I think that the reactions for all the animal torture and slaughter, and the human abortions, plus all the other unlimited sins have accumulated so much now that it’s just a matter of time before it all blows sky high. Srila Prabhupada had (and has) the power to save the world, but the leaders didn’t take it seriously. And then there are the great offences to His Divine Grace — especially during the last days in Vrindavan — which have wreaked havoc upon the earth. So all this evil and hellish Satanism (including David Bowie’s last videos and supposed death) is fast devouring what little piety there is left in this sad old world.
At any rate, keep up the good work. I always look forward to reading your insightful posts.
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare…
Yes! L W Prabhu,
You are right about most people not ‘being bothered’ about what is happening in the political sphere but as we get closer to the collapse of the society and things get harder they are being forced to look for answers. Srila Prabhupada wanted to create a ‘brahminical society’ and as brahmanas it is important to understand the social and political dynamic if we are to give advise on this topic and present the only viable alternative to societies ills.
Some ”devotees” will say ”oh that’s just politics!” but this is because they are sense enjoyers who ‘substitute’ a brain with having some ”bogus guru” so that they do not need to expend any effort to think for themselves. These ”bogus disciples” are themselves just like hapless victims of the bogus policies and deviant philosophical banter of FISKCON bogus guru’s, GBC, and Gaudiya Math (corner shop ”acharyas”). These hapless unfortunate souls are basically ‘sudras’ as they are beying ‘played’ like dumb animal themselves, by a BOGUS POLITICAL FRAMEWORK!
Thanks for the X Files link! The latter part is quite revealing and I myself am VERY surprised that this has gone to air! The writer has expertly revealed some very tangible facts here, especially the part about the control of ”food” and medicines. We are going to be in for a bumpy ride!
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Sudarsana Prabhu..
“The same ones (hypocrites and demons) who are speaking with Srila Prabhupada in this exchange!”
The mosquito is on the king, but it is there to BITE.. ‘familiarity breeds contempt’
Yhs,
Bal.
“In the Nrsimha Purana, Lord Nrsimhadeva says: ‘Anyone who prays unto Me and takes shelter from Me becomes my ward, and I protect him always from all sorts of calamities.'”
(Nectar of Devotion, Chapter 11)
May Lord Nrsimhadeva please protect us at all times, in all places and from all directions.
Nrsimhadeva Bhagavan ki jaya!
Absolutely LW Prabhu.. the lion ALWAYS protects the cubs!
Yhs,
Bal.
pamho prabhus agtACBSP,one must recite the SRI NARASIMHA DEVA KAVACAM constantly by getting the kavacha too as all the 33 millions of demigods already do since the beginning of SRI NARASIMHA DEVA appearance day,i recite SRI NARASIMHA DEVA KAVACHA from a couple years and even when i was not recite it the blessing of the hamsa yoga in my birth chart protected me from people who tried to kill me several times,this hamsa yoga blessing is jupiter in sagittarius and it comes from a special service to SRI KRSNA from my previous lives,just one person in 50 got it,unless one get this blessing one have to take birth again until one get qualified for a special service to SRI KRSNA,so balarama das is the mosquito not me i just speak the truth through my practical experience,i’m not using SRILA PRABHUPADA to become a stink guru hoax,then there are so many evious people who accuse other devotees because they lack of good qualities and blessing,anyway all glories to all the real gaura bhakta vrinda and not to people who mistake the real for the fake agtSP ys haribol
Hare Krsna Abhaya Carana Seva das..
In above comment you write… “so balarama das is the mosquito not me i just speak the truth through my practical experience,”…
I’m just wondering why you are calling me a ‘mosquito’?
My comment that you seem to be referring to was to Sudarsan prabhu, in SUPPORT of his comment on LW’s post that the devotees speaking with Srila Prabhupada in the quoted conversation (TKG, Ramesvara, Rupanuga etc) are ‘hypocrites & demons’, NOT THE DEVOTEES IN THE EXCHANGE ON THIS FORUM TOPIC which you seem to have taken out of context. Please follow the correct ‘line of comment’
Srila Prabhupada gave the example that the bug or mosquito might be sitting on the king (very close), but it is there to bite, so I have used that analogy to emphasize that many devotees who had very close association with His Divine Grace were there to bite and cause disturbance. Srila Prabhupada said he only had precious little time with Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, where so many of his ‘close’ associates never understood his mission.
Perhaps if English is not your first language, please take a little time to understand the content and intention of the comments. You can call me a mosquito or even a worm in stool and for that I am most qualified, however please don’t misunderstand or confuse the meaning of my comments.
I trust that is clear and hope this finds you well and happy in your service to Srila Prabhupada and his sincere disciples.
Yhs,
Balaram das
“So far as personal association with Guru is concerned, I was only with Guru Maharaj 4 or 5 times, but I have never left his association, not even for a moment. Because I am following his instruction, I have never felt any separation. There are some of my Godbrothers here in India, who had constant personal association with Guru Maharaja, but who are neglecting his orders. This is just like the bug who is sitting on the lap of the king. He may be very puffed up by his position but all he can succeed in doing is biting the king. Personal association is not so important as association through serving.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, February 20, 1972)
“There are two verses in the Canakya-sloka how a family or an institution can be glorified or burned
into ashes by one person. The Canakya Pandit says that if there is one tree in the forest producing
nice aromatic flower, that one tree can glorify the whole forest by the flavor of its flower. Similarly if
there is one tree in whose cavity there is a little fire, that one tree can burn into ashes the whole
forest. So this simile is applicable anywhere. In a family if there is one good boy, he can glorify the whole family and similarly if there is bad boy he can turn the whole family into ashes. Similarly in this
institution if there is a bad disciple he can burn the whole institution into ashes.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, August 25, 1970)
Many thanks for the quotes Prabhu. Much appreciated!
Yhs,
Bal.
“So far as personal association with Guru is concerned, I was only with Guru Maharaj 4 or 5 times, but I have never left his association, not even for a moment. Because I am following his instruction, I have never felt any separation. There are some of my Godbrothers here in India, who had constant personal association with Guru Maharaja, but who are neglecting his orders. This is just like the bug who is sitting on the lap of the king. He may be very puffed up by his position but all he can succeed in doing is biting the king. Personal association is not so important as association through serving.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, February 20, 1972)
“There are two verses in the Canakya-sloka how a family or an institution can be glorified or burned into ashes by one person. The Canakya Pandit says that if there is one tree in the forest producing nice aromatic flower, that one tree can glorify the whole forest by the flavor of its flower. Similarly if there is one tree in whose cavity there is a little fire, that one tree can burn into ashes the whole forest. So this simile is applicable anywhere. In a family if there is one good boy, he can glorify the whole family and similarly if there is bad boy he can turn the whole family into ashes. Similarly in this institution if there is a bad disciple he can burn the whole institution into ashes.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, August 25, 1970)
pamho prabhus agtACBSP people who born with the blessing of hamsa yoga in their birth chart got more chances to go back home in one lifetime because it gives grace and protection but unless one do a special service for krsna one have less chances to close the samsara that’s all agtSP ys haribol
abhaya carana seva das says ; ” ……. this hamsa yoga blessing is jupiter in sagittarius and it comes from a special service to SRI KRSNA from my previous lives,just one person in 50 got it, ……… ”
I have the following questions which arises from reading the above statement in your comments ;
a. Yoga means link. If Jupiter has link with other planets in your native chart, then, there is a YOGA which you need to explain it further to clarify and verify what you are saying. Otherwise, simply Jupiter in his own house of Sagittarius without forming any link with other planets in the native chart remains in an Isolation with NO Yoga at all. Is my inference correct ?
b. How do you read and interpret it what you have mentioned as cited above from your natal chart ?
c. What are the configuration of the natal planets in your birth chart ?
d. What is the source of your such interpretation and how have you arrived at such reading ( which planets indicate such reading in the natal chart ) when you say this ; ” … it comes from a special service to SRI KRSNA from my previous lives, just one person in 50 got it…. ” ?
The above questions are meant only for my personal knowledge of understanding Jyotish Vidya.
Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
pamho balarama prabhu agtACBSP,i apologise prabhu you are right english is not my first language agtSP ys haribol
Hare Krsna Abhaya Carana Seva prabhu. I always appreciate your comments. I don’t even have a second language and admire those who do.
Yhs,
balaram das.
pamho amar puri prabhu agtACBSP i born the 10/01/1961 at 23.59, i’m capricorn rising sign virgo agtSP ys haribol
pamho amar puri prabhu agtACBSP, are you a astrologer? i already got all my vedic planetary positions i don’t have here with me at the moment,i born in trapani city 100 km far from palermo the capital of sicily agtys ys acsd haribol
abhaya carana seva das prabhu ;
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Based on your birth particulars provided, sign Virgo is raising at 21;46 degree which is owned by Mercury. Saturn, Mars and Sun become functional malefics besides Rahu and Ketu. The rest of the planets are functional benefic. The ascendant Lord Mercury occupies the 5th house of Capricorn at 0;16 degree which is considered utterly in the infancy which sets the stage of your life journey.
The 4th Lord benefic Jupiter occupies in his own Sagittarius sign / house, no doubt, very strong at 23 degree but in very close conjunction with the functional malefic Sun and Saturn both are at 27 degree. Although Jupiter becomes combusted but Jupiter also casts benefic aspects to the 8th house, 10th house and 12th house which give you the urge to seek and practise Occult Science, KC.
Please my humble suggestion to you is that never ever mention such remarks to any body what you did write in your comments which triggered this discussion because your remarks do not reflect at all and support in your natal chart what you said in your statement as it is totally misinterpreted which reads ;
” abhaya carana seva das says ; ” ……. this hamsa yoga blessing is jupiter in sagittarius and it comes from a special service to SRI KRSNA from my previous lives,just one person in 50 got it, ”
Therefore, there is nothing in your chart support your above cited statement because your natal chart is weak.
Perhaps, my reading may sound very harsh to the Readers including yourself but it is the reading which must be told As It Is.
Certainly, I am not an expert in the Jyotish Vidya. As per my basic knowledge of understanding the Jyotish, I am sharing the information with you. Of course, I am open for the corrections.
Please forgive any offence in my writing.
YS….. Amar Puri.
Prabhupada: “Regarding astrology, you should not listen to any of these so-called astrologers—strictly avoid. Don’t even see them. What is the use of seeing them? Astrology is meant for the materialist, but a spiritualist does not care for the future. Everything is dependent upon Krishna. So where is the necessity of astrology? The devotees’ principle is, let there happen anything as Krishna desires. Let me remain sincere devotee, that’s all. Pure devotee is never interested in this astrology.” (Letter to Devamaya — Bombay 9 January, 1975)
Prabhupada: “No, you should not bother with all this nonsense. Astrology will not save you at the time of death. My Guru Maharaja was a great astrologer and astronomer, but he gave it all up. It is meant for the karmis. We have no interest in such things.” (Letter to Sanatana — Honolulu 10 June, 1975)
Nice Quotes Prabhu!
That puts the whole thing to rest. Why waste our energy on Astrology? Srila Prabhupada’s word should always be the guiding principal.
Vaisnava dasanudas
Sudarsana
Haribol Prabhus,
I’m sorry, but the subject of Astrology for devotees is not so cut and dried. Srila Prabhupada himself consulted Astrologers during the last days of his physical presence in Vrindavan, and at times he said different things about Astrology according to the situation.
At the moment I don’t have time to do a full search on the matter, and I dislike quoting certain historical persons because of what they did or are doing to Srila Prabhupada’s movement, but one can search online for “Srila Prabhupada consulted Astrologers” or “Srila Prabhupada quotes on Astrology,” etc. If anyone is interested, I can also do this later and make a relevant post, but one must be discerning when taking quotes out of context (especially from letters and personal conversations).
Suffice to say, Astrology is a Vedic science and as long as one is not a pure devotee, then it can be useful in executing Varnasrama duties, say for marriages, life planning, determining one’s sva-dharma, etc. Yes, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati gave up Astrology, but he was on the highest platform of pure devotional service, so he had no need for anything material (anyabhilasita-sunyam/ jnana-karmady-anavritam). We are living in the material world and most of us are still under the control of the material energy and the laws of the universe, so for us there are still favorable and unfavorable energies and situations; whereas for a pure devotee everything is favorable as he is always acting under the divine energy (daivi-prakriti).
Srila Prabhupada was often reacting to a devotee’s particular mentality or motivation when responding to individual inquiries, so everything must be seen from that perspective and in that light. For example, Srila Prabhupada told Jagadisa das that furthering his studies at university was a waste of time, but then I’ve also read letters where Srila Prabhupada encouraged devotees to get a degree for the purpose of preaching to the educated class of people. Time, place and circumstance.
Another problem is that a bona fide Astrologer in Kali-yuga is very hard to find, maybe impossible. But even a rudimentary understanding of cosmic principles can be helpful in life and health. I’ve observed the unfolding of my life’s trajectory in relation to various “Dasa’s” or Astrological periods, and they have been very accurate and helpful overall. Srila Prabhupada wrote in TLC that anything can be engaged in Krishna’s service — even the atom bomb! Everything depends upon the mindset, intention and expertise of the devotee concerned.
More later on this subject. Thanks for listening.
Jaya Prabhupada!
Note: unless one is in REAL KNOWLEDGE of the books like BHRGU-SAMHITA , BRHAJ-JATAKA AND OTHER BOOKS there is no point in consulting anyone. There are MANY fakes around to take your money and waste your time. Gargamuni was SELF-REALIZED soul. He was the BEST person for astrology:
Adi 13.90 The Advent of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu
The divisions of the sad-varga area are technically called ksetra, hora, drekkana, navamsa, dvadasamsa and trimsamsa. According to Jyotir-vedic astrology, when it is calculated who rules the constellation of six areas, the auspicious moment is calculated. SRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI THAKURA, WHO WAS PREVIOUSLY ALSO A GREAT ASTROLOGER, SAYS THAT IN THE BOOK NAMED BRHAJ-JATAKA AND OTHER BOOKS THERE ARE DIRECTIONS FOR KNOWING THE MOVEMENTS OF THE STARS AND PLANETS. ONE WHO KNOWS THE PROCESS OF DRAWING A STRAIGHT LINE AND THUS UNDERSTANDS THE AREA OF ASTA-VARGA CAN EXPLAIN THE AUSPICIOUS CONSTELLATIONS. THIS SCIENCE IS KNOWN ESPECIALLY BY PERSONS WHO ARE CALLED HORA-SASTRA-VIT, OR THOSE WHO KNOW THE SCRIPTURE OF THE NAME HORA. ON THE STRENGTH OF ASTROLOGICAL CALCULATIONS FROM THE HORA SCRIPTURE, NILAMBARA CAKRAVARTI, THE GRANDFATHER OF SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU, ASCERTAINED THE AUSPICIOUS MOMENT IN WHICH THE LORD WOULD APPEAR.
SB 10.8.5 T Lord Krsna Shows the Universal Form Within His Mouth
jyotisam ayanam saksad
yat taj jnanam atindriyam
pranitam bhavata yena
puman veda paravaram
SYNONYMS
jyotisam–knowledge of astrology (along with other aspects of culture in human society, and specifically in civilized society, there must be knowledge of astrology); ayanam–the movements of the stars and planets in relationship to human society; saksat–directly; yat tat jnanam–such knowledge; ati-indriyam–which an ordinary person cannot understand because it is beyond his vision; pranitam bhavata–you have prepared a perfect book of knowledge; yena–by which; puman–any person; veda–can understand; para-avaram–the cause and effect of destiny.
TRANSLATION
O great saintly person, you have compiled the astrological knowledge by which one can understand past and present unseen things. By the strength of this knowledge, any human being can understand what he has done in his past life and how it affects his present life. This is known to you.
PURPORT
The word “destiny” is now defined. Unintelligent persons who do not understand the meaning of life are just like animals. Animals do not know the past, present and future of life, nor are they able to understand it. But a human being can understand this, if he is sober. Therefore, as stated in Bhagavad-gita (2.13), dhiras tatra na muhyati: a sober person is not bewildered. The simple truth is that although life is eternal, in this material world one changes from one body to another. Foolish people, especially in this age, do not understand this simple truth. Krsna says:
dehino ‘smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
“As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.” (Bg. 2.13) Krsna, the greatest authority, says that the body will change. And as soon as the body changes, one’s whole program of work changes also. Today I am a human being or a great personality, but with a little deviation from nature’s law, I shall have to accept a different type of body. Today I am a human being, but tomorrow I may become a dog, and then whatever activities I have performed in this life will be a failure. This simple truth is now rarely understood, but one who is a dhira can understand this. Those in this material world for material enjoyment should know that because their present position will cease to exist, they must be careful in how they act. This is also stated by Rsabhadeva. Na sadhu manye yata atmano ‘yam asann api klesada asa dehah (Bhag. 5.5.4). Although this body is temporary, as long as we have to live in this body we must suffer. Whether one has a short life or a long life, one must suffer the threefold miseries of material life. THEREFORE ANY GENTLEMAN, DHIRA, MUST BE INTERESTED IN JYOTISA, ASTROLOGY.
Nanda Maharaja was trying to take advantage of the opportunity afforded by Gargamuni’s presence, for Gargamuni was a great authority in this knowledge of astrology, by which one can see the unseen events of past, present and future. IT IS THE DUTY OF A FATHER TO UNDERSTAND THE ASTROLOGICAL POSITION OF HIS CHILDREN AND DO WHAT IS NEEDED FOR THEIR HAPPINESS. NOW, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITY AFFORDED BY THE PRESENCE OF GARGAMUNI, NANDA MAHARAJA SUGGESTED THAT GARGAMUNI PREPARE A HOROSCOPE FOR NANDA’S TWO SONS, KRSNA AND BALARAMA.
Adi 17.104 The Pastimes of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His Youth
Through astrology one can know past, present and future. Modern Western astrologers have no knowledge of the past or future, nor can they perfectly say anything about the present. Herein we find, however, that after hearing Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s order, the astrologer immediately began his calculations. This was not a facade; he actually knew how to ascertain one’s past life through astrology. A STILL-EXISTING TREATISE CALLED THE BHRGU-SAMHITA DESCRIBES A SYSTEM BY WHICH ANYONE CAN IMMEDIATELY GET INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT HE WAS IN THE PAST AND WHAT HE IS GOING TO BE IN THE FUTURE.
Note: Srila Prabhupada sent Yasoda nandana Prabhu to Ashutosh Ohja for his Astrology chart:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4Pi_G1ca7NQC&pg=PR11&lpg=PR11&dq=Ashutosh+Ojha+New+Delhi+astrology&source=bl&ots=touClN4S1t&sig=P8XlLQW-HUixsOPrEDuXEzKdDik&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwijkLGJ0cPKAhVDLhoKHX6BDt0Q6AEINzAD#v=onepage&q=Ashutosh%20Ojha%20New%20Delhi%20astrology&f=false
LW Prabhu says ;
” Another problem is that a bona fide Astrologer in Kali-yuga is very hard to find, maybe impossible. But even a rudimentary understanding of cosmic principles can be helpful in life and health. I’ve observed the unfolding of my life’s trajectory in relation to various “Dasa’s” or Astrological periods, and they have been very accurate and helpful overall. Srila Prabhupada wrote in TLC that anything can be engaged in Krishna’s service — even the atom bomb! Everything depends upon the mindset, intention and expertise of the devotee concerned. ”
You are so very thoughtful to the precision in your every writing such as your above cited remarks, I have observed.
That is why elsewhere in my long canvassing remarks in the various comments to yourgoodself to stay with this forum for continuation of your meaningful writings was indeed vouched for when you did not appreciate some remarks from others and decide for leaving the forum.
Thank you for your kind contribution. Keep up the good work.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
YS….. Amar Puri.
pamho amar puri prabhu agtACBSP,i got my vedic calculation from a advanced astrologer in SRI RADHA KUNDA ,i already know everything about my temporary journey in bhumi loka my life started very bad but it will finish in the best way by departing from this world full of spiritual wealth in the paravyoma spiritual sky,for many people life started good but finish bad,so i’m glad about that,i know you are not a qualified astrologer and i should shut up by saying those things thank you agtSP ys haribol
aabhayaa carana seva das prabhu ;
Your comments in the writing such as
; ” …….. i already know everything about my temporary journey in bhumi loka ……. ,”
are very very very strongly indicative of what you have said above in your comments which are duly confirming the present transit influence of the malefic Rahu exactly in conjunction with the Jupiter in the Leo Sign of 12th house in your weak native chart which speaks the TRUTH by itself.
Of course, I am not an expert qualified BUT whatever little knowledge I have, I can make a best use of it and tell the TRUTH from the horoscope who so ever asks for it.
That is what I have done it in your case, Prabhu.
It looks like you did not like it. The TRUTH speaks by itself.
Once again, I am sorry if I make any offence in my writing which is not my intend and purpose of it.
Hare Krishna. All Gloris to Srila Prabhupada.
YS…. Amar Puri.
pamho prabhus agtACBSP, i agreed with HG prahlad prabhu and with HG balarama prabhu, that’s why is important to keep sadhu sanga thank you for all your good advices,real devotees are under SRI BHAGAVAN KA ICCHA the supreme will and desire of SRI KRSNA BHAGAVAT,then we can see through the factor time that the utility must be our principle of life by trusting only in SRI SRI GURU GAURANGA,although kali devi try to make quarrel and hypocrisy through all the gaura bhakta vrinda she get always defeated by the power of SRI GAURANGA MAHAPRABHU sadhu sanga , my obeisances also to HG sudarsana vanacari for blessing me with the mercy of SRILA PRABHUPADA i offer my respect to all the gaura bhakta and SRILA PRABHUPADA, we hope to keep to receive SRILA PRABHUPADA blessing and enlightenment by don’t forget HIM agtSP ys haribol
Hare Krsna
If we accept Srila Prabhupada as Diksa and Siksa Guru then why should we use astrology? A disciple gives his karma to his bonafide guru.
Hare Krsna,
ys marica
Hare Krsna Marica Prabhu,
One time I was riding in a car with a devotee in a foreign land. There was a big sign on the side of the road in the local language and I asked the devotee to tell me what it said. He replied, “That’s maya, Prabhu. Just chant Hare Krishna.” Well, we just about crashed because the sign said, “Slow down, winding road ahead.” The devotee didn’t bother reading it because it was “maya.”
When you go for a trip, do you not check the weather forecast to see what kind of clothes to take with you? Or whether to take an umbrella or not? Your Astrology chart is a blueprint of your karmic “weather” patterns and they tell you what to expect on your life’s journey.
“We are not very much concerned with these things (Astrology), but when it is going to rain you should take an umbrella.”
(Srila Prabhupada conversation as remembered by Pradyumna das)
“We believe in astrology, but because it is a difficult science, people do not understand it properly.”
(Srila Prabhupada conversation, December 29, 1973)
Question: “Is astrology of any importance to a way of life?”
Srila Prabhupada: “Yes. This is a science. That science is acceptable by the human society. Medical science, legal science, engineering science – similarly, astrology also, another science. But the astrology is simply useful so long you have got this body. But as soon as your body is finished, there is no more use of astrology.”
(Srila Prabhupada lecture, May 3, 1969)
Do we simply disregard doctors and all forms of medicine when we get sick because it’s “maya,” or “karma,” or only “material”? Shall we ignore a toothache and renounce going to a dentist because the body will be finished anyway?
Srila Prabhupada had his chart read at birth and it was predicted that he would travel abroad and open 108 temples — and build a house in which the whole world could live. In later days Srila Prabhupada consulted astrologers (from Prabhupada’s secretary at the time):
“Srila Prabhupada had asked us to consult an astrologer, regarding whether he should travel. This afternoon, Yasodanandana Swami, Dr. Sharma, and Bhakti Prema Swami each presented a report from a different astrologer. I asked each to give his report separately, so that we could see how they agreed and differed. Bhakti Prema’s was useless, Dr. Sharma’s was fair, and Yasodanandana’s seemed the most reliable. All three agreed on one point: the next two months would be the most difficult of Srila Prabhupada’s life, and traveling was to be avoided. The astrologer Yasodanandana consulted recommended the wearing of a blue sapphire. After hearing all the reports that forecast his future, His Divine Grace said, ‘So it is not hopeless. At least for five weeks, keep me very carefully. For the time being, no travel. Secure this blue sapphire and chant Hare Krsna.'”
Srila Prabhupada often said in his lectures that there is no need for hatha-yoga, etc. We just have to dance in kirtan and all necessary exercise is there. But he also told one of his personal servants that doing hatha-yoga was very healthy and he allowed his servant to practice it, but away from the eyes of the devotees in general lest they get too much into it at the expense of their sadhana or Krsna consciousness.
I know one devotee who asked Prabhupada if he could use Astrology for preaching, and Srila Prabhupada OK’d it. To this day, that devotee gives out japa beads along with instructions for chanting Hare Krsna along with his clients’ personal Astrological charts or horoscopes.
I also know another devotee who asked Srila Prabhupada if he could learn and practice Chinese Acupuncture, and Srila Prabhupada agreed — even though puncturing the body is not recommended in Ayurveda.
In Vedic culture, Astrology was always consulted for determining marriage compatibility (even to this day), and also determining qualification for entering the sannyasa-asrama. Deciding one’s life work or varna was established through the help of Astrology, among other things. There is a proper application of Astrology, otherwise why is it there, and why is it considered the highest and most subtle form of Vedic (material) science?
Marica writes: “If we accept Srila Prabhupada as Diksa and Siksa Guru then why should we use astrology? A disciple gives his karma to his bonafide guru.”
Yes, we give our karma to the guru, but Srila Prabhupada said that the fan is still turning — slowing down, yes, but still spinning. Are we automatically pure devotees overnight? Do you chant Hare Krishna 24 hours a day, sleep under a different tree every night (like the Goswamis), eat only a pad of butter every day or two, use your arm as a pillow, find and wear discarded clothes from the side of the road, etc., etc. — all recommended in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Caitanya-caritamrita and other Vedic literatures? Let us be honest — and real. Most of us are still attached to the material world and body in one way or another. So we have to navigate ourselves through this world with intelligence and common sense. For example, we do not obsess about news, but Srila Prabhupada allowed us to read the news so that we can preach using current topics of the day:
“One should avoid ordinary topics of novels and fiction, but there is no injunction that one should avoid hearing ordinary news.”
(Srila Prabhupada, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 12)
Everything can be engaged in Krsna’s service. One must be expert and realized. It’s not a matter of just repeating some quotes. Proper understanding and application are required. Otherwise, any damn fool with a computer and access to Google will be considered “self-realized.” Check out the article, “Crime: Why and What to Do” (Science of Self-Realization) by Srila Prabhupada in conversation with Lieutenant Mozee of the Chicago Police Department — all based on a Time magazine article Prabhupada read on an airplane.
Astrology is neither good nor bad — it’s how you use it. I don’t say become obsessed with it, but you can clearly see the patterns of your karma in this body, and that can be helpful at times in understanding and arranging the circumstances of your life in Krsna’s service. Do you have to know Astrology? By all means, no — just as you don’t have to read the news to preach. It’s up to the individual. Prabhupada has said both positive and negative things about Astrology and the news — depending on the circumstances. Each Prabhupada letter and conversation has a history and should be taken in context. That’s one of the reasons why Srila Prabhupada condemned this “Prabhupada said” business. We can cherry pick quotes to practically support anything. Wisdom, maturity and genuine realization are required, not parrot-like chanting or mindless repeating.
Nanda Maharaj addressed Gargamuni (Astrologer) as follows:
“O great saintly person, you have compiled the astrological knowledge by which one can understand past and present unseen things. By the strength of this knowledge, any human being can understand what he has done in his past life and how it affects his present life. This is known to you.”
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.8.5)
Srila Prabhupada writes in the First Canto of the Bhagavatam:
“Astronomical calculations of stellar influences upon a living being are not suppositions, but are factual, as confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Every living being is controlled by the laws of nature at every minute, just as a citizen is controlled by the influence of the state. The state laws are grossly observed, but the laws of material nature, being subtle to our gross understanding, cannot be experienced grossly. As stated in the Bhagavad-gītā (3.9), every action of life produces another reaction, which is binding upon us, and only those who are acting on behalf of Yajña (Viṣṇu) are not bound by reactions. Our actions are judged by the higher authorities, the agents of the Lord, and thus we are awarded bodies according to our activities. The law of nature is so subtle that every part of our body is influenced by the respective stars, and a living being obtains his working body to fulfill his terms of imprisonment by the manipulation of such astronomical influence. A man’s destiny is therefore ascertained by the birthtime constellation of stars, and a factual horoscope is made by a learned astrologer. It is a great science, and misuse of a science does not make it useless. Mahārāja Parīkṣit or even the Personality of Godhead appear in certain constellations of good stars, and thus the influence is exerted upon the body thus born at an auspicious moment. The most auspicious constellation of stars takes place during the appearance of the Lord in this material world, and it is specifically called jayantī, a word not to be abused for any other purposes. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was not only a great kṣatriya emperor, but also a great devotee of the Lord. Thus he cannot take his birth at any inauspicious moment. As a proper place and time is selected to receive a respectable personage, so also to receive such a personality as Mahārāja Parīkṣit, who was especially cared for by the Supreme Lord, a suitable moment is chosen when all good stars assembled together to exert their influence upon the King. Thus he took his birth just to be known as the great hero of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This suitable arrangement of astral influences is never a creation of man’s will, but is the arrangement of the superior management of the agency of the Supreme Lord. Of course, the arrangement is made according to the good or bad deeds of the living being. Herein lies the importance of pious acts performed by the living being. Only by pious acts can one be allowed to get good wealth, good education and beautiful features. The saṁskāras of the school of sanātana-dharma (man’s eternal engagement) are highly suitable for creating an atmosphere for taking advantage of good stellar influences, and therefore garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, or the first seedling purificatory process prescribed for the higher castes, is the beginning of all pious acts to receive a good pious and intelligent class of men in human society. There will be peace and prosperity in the world due to good and sane population only; there is hell and disturbance only because of the unwanted, insane populace addicted to sex indulgence.”
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.12.12, Purport)
This is a big topic and I’m only scratching the surface here. But kindly remember that Srila Prabhupada is a dynamic preacher who is expert at “time, place and circumstance.” Although he is certainly present in his books, Srila Prabhupada is also more than his books, letters and recorded conversations. He knows how to apply the teachings in each individual situation, and that’s one of the reasons why it may seem that Prabhupada contradicts himself in different places. For example, in one place he writes that a sannyasi who goes back to married life is eating his own vomit, and yet Srila Prabhupada himself personally married his ex-sannyasi Bali Mardan das in Los Angeles. Prabhupada can do anything because everything he does is for preaching Krsna consciousness without any material motivation. He attended Kumba-mela and had water drawn for him from the triveni according to the exact Astrological calculation for best results, although as a pure devotee he didn’t have to, of course. He forgave his disciples’ transgressions and showed unbelievable mercy and compassion in his personal dealings, even overriding some of the strict statements in his books at different times. No one can understand the mind of the pure devotee. Apparent contradictions in his statements and behavior are just that (apparent), but ultimately they’re not because the aim is one — to fulfill the divine order of his beloved spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhnata Sarasvati Thakura.
All for now. Thanks and Haribol.
Many many years ago— I used to do astrology for a living —because time was difficult had to pay my house bills. It was mainly Tarot cards etc I was on EXPENSIVE phone line. One pound per minute etc.
There I found MANY MANY “astrologers” telling LIES to make a living. They SPECULATED SO MUCH on EVERYTHING on the Tarot cards. They used to take drugs etc also. You have to hang on to the phone AS LONG AS POSSIBLE so that people pay HIGH price PER MINUTE. That is HOW they earn the income. Then you had the managers in the background room who HEAR what you say to others – it was a MONEY game. What I did was say to them, “your cards is showing that you have to read “Science of Self-Realization”. The author is A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada that will be good for you etc.” Some—- actually went and bought the book.
Mahesh Raja Prabhu wrote: “What I did was say to them, ‘your cards is showing that you have to read ‘Science of Self-Realization’. The author is A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada that will be good for you etc.’ Some—- actually went and bought the book.”
Ha ha… YOU are the best Astrologer and Tarot card reader.
How much do you charge?
(I’ll gladly give you a postdated check, no problem!)
LW prabhu I gave up on being Tarot card reader/astrologer long time back. Too much speculation. It is not for me.
Too old for that. What is going to happen is going to happen anyway. Laws of Karma. Best to just concentrate on hearing my Srila Prabhupada tapes, mp3s, reading his books this life – bas!
Nice of you to offer me posted dated check.
Reminds me of Srila Prabhupada’s instruction on that:
730419mw.la Conversations
Prabhupada: Everywhere wet. There is a little space to walk. Biology, chemistry is the origin of life. So the chemistry, biology’s so much advanced. Why they cannot create life? When the crucial point is touched, they say: “We shall do it in future.” Why future? If it is already done at present, why future? What is this?
Svarupa Damodara: This is… Small ones?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Svarupa Damodara: These are some small earth, mound of earth taken out from the inside to make room for oxygen for the plants to breath.
Prabhupada: No, no. These are stools.
Svarupa Damodara: No, these are not stools, Srila Prabhupada. There’s a machine. They go around like this. And that makes a little earth taken out.
Prabhupada: Ahhh.
Svarupa Damodara: They say they’ll be doing in the future.
Prabhupada: That is nonsense. Future, that is not science. Trust no future, however pleasant. This is the word. What is this? Everyone will say future. Trust no future, however pleasant. You may think it is very pleasurable. Why future? If you say that the biology, chemistry is the beginning of this life, so you are now so much advanced. Why don’t you create? Then what is the meaning of your advancement? You’re talking nonsense.
Karandhara: They always say they’re right on the verge.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Karandhara: They always say they’re right on the verge.
Prabhupada: That is also the future, in a different way. You have to accept that you do not know still what is the truth. You are expecting in future. That, that is the proof that your knowledge is imperfect. Why future?
Svarupa Damodara: Because their present knowledge cannot…
Prabhupada: IT IS, IT IS SOMETHING LIKE, GIVING POST-DATED CHECK. I PAY YOU ONE LAKH OF RUPEES, POST-DATED. ALTHOUGH I HAVE NO MONEY,… WHAT IS THE VALUE OF THAT CHECK? WILL ANYBODY ACCEPT THAT CHECK? “OH, I HAVE RECEIVED THE MONEY.” THAT IS FOOLISHNESS. WHY FUTURE? YOU ARE TALKING OF FUTURE, AND YOU ARE TALKING OF PERFECTNESS AT PRESENT. WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE? YOU ARE CLAIMING THAT YOUR SCIENCE IS PERFECT, AND, AT THE SAME TIME, WHEN PRACTICAL EXAMPLE WANTED, YOU SAY; “I SHALL DO IT.” THE SAME EXAMPLE. I AM SAYING I AM MILLIONS, OWNER OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. AND YOU ASK ME: “GIVE ME SOME PAYMENT.” “YES, I GIVE YOU POST-DATED CHECK.” WILL YOU ACCEPT? AT PRESENT, IF YOU GIVE ME FIVE DOLLAR, I SEE SOMETHING TANGIBLE. AND YOU’RE TALKING OF BIG, BIG WORD, BUT YOU’LL PAY ME IN THE FUTURE. SO IS IT VERY SANGUINE PROPOSAL? And I am to accept it? So what kind of intelligent man I am also? You cannot produce even a grass by biological chemistry. You cannot do anything. Still you are claiming: “It is produced of chemistry, biology.” What is this nonsense? Nobody questions?
Hare Krishna Mahesh Raja Prabhu,
You wrote: “Best to just concentrate on hearing my Srila Prabhupada tapes, mp3s, reading his books this life — bas!”
Yes, I agree 108%. I just meant that Astrology can be utilized when a baby is born and can be helpful as a guide in fulfilling one’s sva-dharma in life. It’s not necessary, but it can be useful in organizing society nicely (as in varnasrama):
Satsvarupa: Varnasrama is not required.
Prabhupada: Not required. Caitanya Mahaprabhu denied, “I am not brahmana, I am not ksatriya, I am not this, I am not this.” He rejected. But in the Bhagavad-gita, the catur-varnyam maya srstam. [Bg. 4.13]: “According to the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society are created by Me…” So we are Krsna… preaching Krsna consciousness. It must be done.
Hari-sauri: But in Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s practical preaching He only induced them to chant.
Prabhupada: That is not possible for ordinary man.
Hari-sauri: What, to simply induce people to chant?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Hari-sauri: He only introduced just the chanting.
Prabhupada: But who will chant? Who’ll chant?
Satsvarupa: But if they won’t chant, then neither will they train up in the varnasrama. That’s the easiest.
Prabhupada: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people will chant like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds. (And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Satsvarupa: No. But if they at least will chant and take some prasada…
Prabhupada: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time the varnasrama dharma must be established to make the way easy.
Hari-sauri: Well, at least my own understanding was that the chanting was introduced in the age of Kali because varnasrama is not possible.
Prabhupada: Because it will cleanse the mind. Chanting will not stop.
Hari-sauri: So therefore the chanting was introduced to replace all of the systems of varnasrama and like that.
Prabhupada: Yes, it can replace, but who is going to replace it? The… People are not so advanced. If you imitate Haridasa Thakura to chant, it is not possible.
Satsvarupa: We tell them go on with your job but chant also.
Prabhupada: Yes. Thakaha apanara kaje, Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Apanara kaja ki. Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended, sthane sthitah. And if they do not remain in the sthana, then the sahajiya’s chanting will come. Just like the sahajiyas also have got the beads and… but they have got three dozen women. This kind of chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for sannyasa but he was given sannyasa. And five women he was attached, and he disclosed. Therefore varnasrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do. So the varnasrama-dharma should be introduced all over the world, and…
Satsvarupa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Brahmana, ksatriyas. There must be regular education.
Hari-sauri: But in our community, if the… being as we’re training up as Vaisnavas…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: …then how will we be able to make divisions in our society?
Prabhupada: Vaisnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaisnava. It is not so easy to become Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: No, it’s not a cheap thing.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava, is not so easy. If Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy.
(Srila Prabhupada conversation, February 14, 1977)
Not everyone can just focus on hearing and chanting, bas. The material propensities and samskaras are still there in most of us, so we have to be practical and honest about it. But yes, ultimately nothing will help or work unless we can somehow get Prabhupada’s mercy.
Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Hare Krsna, dear LW Prabhu!
Thanks for your comment (1. February 2016 at 11:48 pm ) and the many quotations.
You write:„Apparent contradictions in his statements and behavior are just that (apparent)”
Yes, I agree. There are many similar examples:
„Once the child, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, chastised His mother with His soft hand, and His mother pretended to faint. Seeing this, the Lord began to cry.” (Adi 14.45.)
Govinda ( Caitanya’s servant):
“Many respectable devotees, headed by Advaita Ācārya, make a great endeavor to entrust me with varieties of food for You.”
“You do not eat it, but they ask me again and again. How long shall I go on cheating them? How shall I be freed from this responsibility?”
„Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied, “Why are you so foolishly unhappy? Bring here to Me whatever they have given you.”
„Within a very short time, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu ate enough for a hundred people. Then He asked Govinda, “Is there anything more left?”
(Antya 10.114.115.116.127.)
In my humble opinion:
We live in Kali-yuga where everyone is sudra.
Therefore the Astrology can limit our will. We should FEEL that ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE by the mercy of Krsna. Otherwise how do we want to get the MERCY?
” Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartīstates in his Gurv-aṣṭaka prayer, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto ‘pi:”By the mercy of the spiritual master one is blessed by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Without the grace of the spiritual master one cannot make any advancement.” It is by the mercy of the spiritual master that one becomes perfect, as vividly exemplified here. A Vaiṣṇava is always protected by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if he appears to be an invalid, this gives a chance to his disciples to serve him. ” ( Adi 9.11.)
Hare Krsna,
ys marica
Dear Learned Readers,
Make no mistake, there are none ” Apparent contradictions in Srila Prabhupadas’ statements .”
Each and every so called contradictory statements are NOT at all CONTRADICTORY when you come to understand and go through searching of the circumstances in which such seemingly contradictory statements are made within its entire context of the situation by HDG. Srila Prabhupada as in the case example given in the comments of LW Prabhu which reads ;
” For example, in one place he writes that a sannyasi who goes back to married life is eating his own vomit, and yet Srila Prabhupada himself personally married his ex-sannyasi Bali Mardan das in Los Angeles. ” LW Prabhu explains further ; ” Prabhupada can do anything because everything he does is for preaching Krsna consciousness without any material motivation.”
I encourage every one to read and understand these two different circumstances in its entire context and then write your comments should you still find contradiction in the given situations in which these statements were made by HDG. Srila Prabhupada.
Please do not ever mention without any valid PROOF that Srila Prabhupada contradicts in His Instructions. I know that there are so many people out there promotes such NON-sense.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
YS….. Amar Puri.
Hare Krishna Marica Prabhu,
You wrote: “We should FEEL that ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE by the mercy of Krsna. Otherwise how do we want to get the MERCY?”
I agree. There is nothing outside of Srila Prabhupada’s mercy. Nothing else can save us.
In this connection I’d like to share with you the following. Please know it for sure that I am not a fan of Mr. Thomas Herzig (Tamal), but Srila Prabhupada himself approved of his dream (see below), and I think it supports your point. Tamal was having an operation at the hospital, and as he was going under, he dreamt as follows:
“I had a dream, a very good dream, in which Srila Prabhupada had been called by the previous acaryas to make a report of his preaching mission on this planet. The previous acaryas were all there, and they asked Prabhupada, ‘What is your report?’ Prabhupada said that he had studied the people of this planet and he had found that they had no capacity for taking any type of austerity, nor were they very capable of studying and they were not very pious. He said the only thing so far that they seemed to be able to do is that somehow they take shelter at my feet. I told Prabhupada about the dream. Prabhupada listened very intently and he said, ‘Actually this is so.'”
Jaya Prabhupada!
Hare Krishna Amar Puri Prabhu,
Thank you for your comments. You wrote: “Make no mistake, there are none ‘ Apparent contradictions in Srila Prabhupadas’ statements.”
Yes, Srila Prabhupada advised that we should always consider ourselves as fools before the spiritual master:
“To think of becoming a fool is the real qualification for a bonafide disciple. As soon as one thinks that he has become the wiser man than the spiritual master one is surely doomed. We should remain everlastingly a fool before the spiritual master. Not artificially but feelingly and then we can make real progress. Even my spiritual master a great scholar remained a so called fool before His spiritual master Who was outwardly an illiterate village fellow. So in the Absolute world the fool is also the master and the master is also a fool in reciprocal exchange of dealings. Lord Chaitanya also accepted Himself a great fool before His spiritual master and all of us must follow the transcendental process.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, December 14, 1967)
You wrote: “Please do not ever mention without any valid PROOF that Srila Prabhupada contradicts in His Instructions. I know that there are so many people out there promotes such NON-sense.”
Yes, that’s a very dangerous mentality, as you know. Such people are walking on thin ice:
“As confirmed in Caitanya-caritāmṛta (Antya 7.11), kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe tāra pravartana: one cannot explain the glories of the holy name of the Lord without being specifically empowered by Him. If one criticizes or finds fault with such an empowered personality, one is to be considered an offender against Lord Viṣṇu and is punishable. Even though such offenders may dress as Vaiṣṇavas with false tilaka and mālā, they are never forgiven by the Lord if they offend a pure Vaiṣṇava.”
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.19.37, Purport)
Thank you for setting such a nice example with your humble attitude towards Srila Prabhupada.
All glories to His Divine Grace!
Hare Krsna
Amar Puri Prabhu is right: “Each and every so called contradictory statements are NOT at all CONTRADICTORY”
————————–
Many devotees are not able to accept Srila Prabhupada because He is not present personally in physical body . Therefore the bogus gurus use this possibility that everything must be done with reference to “time, place and circumstance.” So they give the devotees to believe that everyone needs the personal instructions (by their persons).
I think we should not analyze the exceptions ( Exception proves the rule) because those are called Srila Prabhupada’s pastime or lila . Actually He gave the standards to His movement for the next ten thousand years (because everyone is sudra).
„There is nothing new to be said. Whatever I had say, I have already said in my books. Now you must try to understand it and continue with your endeavours. Whether I am present or not does not matter.” ( Arrival Conversation vrindavan, 17/5/77, Vrindavan)
Hare Krsna,
ys marica
Hare Krsna, dear LW Prabhu!
Thank you your comment – 3. February 2016 at 7:47 am
However my opinion has referenced to the Astrology:
“In my humble opinion:
We live in Kali-yuga where everyone is sudra.
Therefore the Astrology can limit our will. We should FEEL that ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE by the mercy of Krsna. Otherwise how do we want to get the MERCY?”
We are disagree but that is not problem.
Hare Krsna,
ys marica
Haribol Marica Prabhu,
No disagreement, Prabhu. Srila Prabhupada is the ONLY way.
I don’t even have my Astrological chart — I lost it decades ago. I just remember certain things about health indicated in the chart which were a little useful in understanding my present situation, but I don’t bother with these things either. My only point was that in Vedic society and/or Varnasrama society, Astrology could be utilized properly in its place. It’s a material thing, yes, but so is the computer you and I type on, and the apartment or house we live in, etc. Everything can be spiritualized in service to guru and Krsna if seen in the right way. Prabhupada said, “even an atom bomb” can be used in Krishna’s service. But since there are no bona fide Astrologers around these days, this discussion is only theoretical anyway, so it’s better I just shut up on this topic now. Sorry to waste your time. But thanks for listening and responding.
Hare Krsna.
Marica Prabhu ;
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
How does an Astrology LIMIT or UNLIMIT our will, as you said in your opinion ?
Certainly, there is nothing IMPOSSIBLE by the mercy of Krishna. But who can or can not get that MERCY of Shri Krishna ( i.e. a PRETENDER ) can also be read in ones’ horoscope by the applied principles of the Vedic Astrology Practitioner.
Is it not ?
YS… Amar Puri.
Haribol Prabhus,
For those who have been following this discussion on astrology, thank you for your patience. Here’s a final thought on the subject.
Amar Puri Prabhu writes: “I encourage every one to read and understand these two different circumstances in its entire context and then write your comments should you still find contradiction in the given situations in which these statements were made by HDG. Srila Prabhupada.”
When we read Srila Prabhupada’s letters, we have to remember that there is a “context” to consider. For example, one devotee went to an astrologer and he paid big sums of money and was advised to wear pendants to appease the demigods, etc. When Srila Prabhupada found out, he then told that devotee to stop going to astrologers and that it was a waste of time (as we read in one letter). Other devotees started going overboard with calculating auspicious and inauspicious times for this and that, and again Srila Prabhupada nixed astrology in one of his letters. However, in Vedic society astrology had its place, and we can see that in Srimad-Bhagavatam and also in Prabhupada’s own life, and even in Krishna’s pastimes. That’s why we find seemingly contradictory comments on the subject.
Another example. Devotees used to fully bathe in Radha-kunda, but when some devotees were horsing around there, playing water sports and acting like fools (in 1976), Srila Prabhupada then declared that devotees should only place a few drops of water from the kunda on their heads, bas.
Srila Prabhupada established the GBC, but when the GBC disobeyed and offended him, Prabhupada notified the temple presidents to ignore the GBC, at least temporarily.
Srila Prabhupada gave sannyasa to some of his leading disciples, but when they kept falling down, he finally said “no more sannyasa” in 1977.
Srila Prabhupada wrote that sannyasis who fell down were “eating their own vomit,” but later when he saw them falling like anything, Prabhupada allowed them to go back to household life.
There are many such instances where Srila Prabhupada had to make adjustments, mainly due to our inability to follow properly. So if we take one or two isolated letters or incidents and think that that’s the be-all and end-all of the subject, we’re not seeing things in proper perspective. That was my main point.
Otherwise, frankly, astrology is pretty much a waste of time in Kali-yuga due to unqualified so-called astrologers primarily in it for the money. Ayurveda is a wonderful science, but how many true practitioners of the science can be found? (If anyone knows one, please let me know.)
So I’m not promoting astrology, but just trying to humbly encourage a balanced view from Srila Prabhupada’s statements in both his letters and books. I love Prabhupada’s letters, but I’m also mindful that he is responding to particular situations and circumstances. Some devotees would come up with some crazy ideas and Prabhupada would sometimes cut them off, otherwise they’d continue their nonsense.
One last example. Srila Prabhupada wanted the Vedic planetarium in Mayapur, especially showing the material world in detail. Why? For preaching, of course. So any Vedic science can be utilized in serving Krishna and furthering His divine message. Prabhupada wasn’t against astrology per se, but just against the misuse of astrology. It has its place in Vedic culture, and Prabhupada knew that. After all, astrology is a bona fide occupation for brahmanas. (I’m not talking about modern day Tarot card readers and Sun Sign astrology columns found in the daily newspapers, but genuine Vedic astrology.)
Of course, today there is no Vedic culture, and we can’t even establish varnasrama — so everything has gone to hell. Therefore Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet and causeless mercy are the only hope for us all.
Thank you for listening. Hope this helps.
Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
P.S. Further to my last post (above), it should be noted that there was a time in ISKCON when devotees — including leading “sannyasis” — started going overboard and wearing fancy (and expensive) gold rings set with rubies, diamonds, sapphires, etc. to help ward off bad karma. It seems like Srila Prabhupada had to constantly check the Western tendency towards excess still prevalent among his disciples.
LW: Prabhupada wasn’t against astrology per se, but just against the misuse of astrology. It has its place in Vedic culture, and Prabhupada knew that. After all, astrology is a bona fide occupation for brahmanas. (I’m not talking about modern day Tarot card readers and Sun Sign astrology columns found in the daily newspapers, but genuine Vedic astrology.)
Of course, today there is no Vedic culture, and we can’t even establish varnasrama — so everything has gone to hell. Therefore Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet and causeless mercy are the only hope for us all.
Mahesh: Hare Krsna! Yes – THAT is the point Prabhu. Vedic Astrology is very powerful ACCURATE. BUT there are so many QUACKS about who MIS-use it for their money making apparatus and BLUFF the public. Cheaters make the whole subject a problem.
Just like there ARE ayurveda medicines that work where ordinary Doctors medicine fail BUT you have to KNOW the person KAVIRAJ who is KNOWLEDGEABLE in this area:
730621SB.MAY Lectures
So how these people, during the time of Maharaja Yudhisthira, were free from all kinds of anxieties and diseases? Nadhayo vyadhayah klesah. IF YOU ARE IN ANXIETY, THEN THAT WILL CREATE A DISEASE. OUR THIS PSYCHOLOGICAL CONDITION, PHYSIOLOGICAL CONDITION, IS WORKING IN SO SUBTLE WAY–LITTLE SHOCKING, LITTLE DISTURBANCE WILL CREATE ANOTHER DISTURBANCE. THE AYURVEDIC MEDICINE, THEY TREAT PATIENTS ON THIS PRINCIPLE, HOW THINGS ARE DISTURBED. THEY HAVE GOT THEIR CALCULATION: KAPHA, PITTA, VAYU. TRI-DHATU. THIS BODY IS A COMPOSITION OF THESE THREE DHATUS. YASYATMA-BUDDHIH KUNAPE TRI-DHATUKE. KUNAPE. THIS IS A BAG CREATED BY THE INTERACTION OF THE THREE ELEMENTS, NAMELY, KAPHA, PITTA, VAYU, BILE, MUCUS AND AIR. THIS IS KAVIRAJA TREATMENT. THEY CAN UNDERSTAND THE POSITION OF THESE THREE ELEMENTS BY FEELING THE PULSE. THIS IS AYURVEDIC SCIENCE. IF ONE KAVIRAJA CAN LEARN TO FEEL THE PULSE, HE CAN SAY EVERYTHING. HE CAN SAY WHEN THIS MAN WILL DIE, TODAY OR TOMORROW OR… ACCURATELY HE WILL SAY. THE PULSE BEATING IS SO SCIENTIFICALLY DESCRIBED IN AYURVEDIC SCIENCE. AS SOON AS HE FIXES UP THE PULSE BEATING, IMMEDIATELY THE FORMULAS ARE THERE: “SUCH KIND OF PULSE BEATING WILL CREATE SUCH AND SUCH SYMPTOMS.” SO YOU FEEL THE PULSE AND INQUIRE THE PATIENT, “ARE YOU FEELING LIKE THIS?” IF HE SAYS, “YES,” THEN IT IS CONFIRMED. The disease is confirmed. Then the medicine is there. Very simple thing. Now in allopathic treatment, first of all you have to sacrifice one chataka of blood, immediately. As soon as you go to the medical man, in your country, he will take so much blood. First of all you have to give your blood. Then fees. Then you have to purchase nonsense medicine. So here also there are nonsense kavirajas also. SO UNLESS ONE IS EXPERT IN FEELING THE PULSE, HE IS NOT KAVIRAJA. THAT IS THE CRITERION.
Dear Mahesh Raja Prabhu,
Thank you for your comments and perfect Prabhupada quote.
You wrote: “Just like there ARE ayurveda medicines that work where ordinary Doctors medicine fail BUT you have to KNOW the person KAVIRAJ who is KNOWLEDGEABLE in this area.”
Actually, finding a genuine Ayurvedic doctor (kaviraj) is far more important to me than finding a bona fide Vedic Astrologer (jyotishi). Do you know of any, may I ask?
Hare Krishna!
LW : Actually, finding a genuine Ayurvedic doctor (kaviraj) is far more important to me than finding a bona fide Vedic Astrologer (jyotishi). Do you know of any, may I ask?
Mahesh: Hare Krsna! unfortunately, no. Been in India only once—- when I was 5 yr old kid. Parents took me Vrindavan, bathe in Ganges etc early 1960’s. Folks here in UK that I come across know nothing about Kaviraj. I will ask a few devotees.
Is there anyone here on the forum or who reads this can help?
Many devotees go to Kaviraj Dr Shivakumar in Udupi. I don’t have his contact details at hand, but can find out if you like.
Thank you very much, Prabhu. Will try and check it out.
Haribol!
LW Prabhu writes ;
” When we read Srila Prabhupada’s letters, we have to remember that there is a “context” to consider. For example, one devotee went to an astrologer and he paid big sums of money and was advised to wear pendants to appease the demigods, etc. When Srila Prabhupada found out, he then told that devotee to stop going to astrologers and that it was a waste of time (as we read in one letter). Other devotees started going overboard with calculating auspicious and inauspicious times for this and that, and again Srila Prabhupada nixed astrology in one of his letters. However, in Vedic society astrology had its place, and we can see that in Srimad-Bhagavatam and also in Prabhupada’s own life, and even in Krishna’s pastimes. That’s why we find seemingly contradictory comments on the subject. ”
Mahesh Raja Prabhu replies to the above seemingly so called contradictory which is not at all a CONTRADICTORY after all as LW Prabhu describes in the example cited above ;
” “Just like there ARE ayurveda medicines that work where ordinary Doctors medicine fail BUT you have to KNOW the person KAVIRAJ who is KNOWLEDGEABLE in this area.”
SO UNLESS ONE IS EXPERT IN FEELING THE PULSE, HE IS NOT KAVIRAJA. THAT IS THE CRITERION as noted from Mahesh Raja’s comment.
Also as written by LW Prabhu ; ” ” When we read Srila Prabhupada’s letters, we have to remember that there is a “context” to consider. …. ”
That is indeed the main thing ” The CONTEXT in its entirety ” which establish the FACTUAL TRUTH that there are NO any CONTRADICTORY statements ever made by HDG. Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krishna Amar Puri Prabhu,
You wrote: “That is indeed the main thing ” The CONTEXT in its entirety ” which establish the FACTUAL TRUTH that there are NO any CONTRADICTORY statements ever made by HDG. Srila Prabhupada.”
Another point. One time Srila Prabhupada was speaking very strongly about some of his godbrothers, but then he said to his disciples present there (paraphrased), “I can say these things, but you cannot.”
In another pastime, I remember Srila Prabhupada mentioned that an old man can say things which others can’t say, and he’ll get away with it because he is elderly.
Also, since Prabhupada is a pure devotee, he has the authority to blast anyone and everyone because he has no false ego. Everything he says and does is for Krishna, and on behalf of Krishna. Thus the scriptures warn that no one should imitate a pure devotee. This is another reason why we must be a little careful in throwing around Srila Prabhupada’s quotes like brahmastra weapons. We are not self-realized, and so we always have to remember our real position. Those are Prabhupada’s quotes, not ours; so we should not get puffed up with a false sense of authority or entitlement when we refer to Srila Prabhupada’s statements. We are always humble servants and nothing more.
Thank you for your comments.
Haribol!
Hare Krsna, dear LW Prabhu!
To pay attention to a devotee’s words does not mean waste of time.
You can smile at me: I had such a master who deals with the spirit world and the ancient Taltos teaching too.
My way was long to Srila Prabhupada therefore I only try to appreciate this divine gift.
Narada Muni says:
„The Lord can give liberation [mukti] very easily, but He does not very easily give one bhakti-yoga, because by that process He is bound to the devotee. ” (Adi 8.19.)
Hare Krsna,
ys marica
Dear Marica Prabhu,
Thank you for your reply.
You wrote: ” I had such a master who deals with the spirit world and the ancient Taltos teaching too.”
Do you mean a shaman? From what country or tradition, may I ask?
You wrote: “My way was long to Srila Prabhupada therefore I only try to appreciate this divine gift.”
Don’t worry, Prabhu, going back to Godhead is a long and winding road for most of us. But anyway, you have reached the shelter of Prabhupada’s lotus feet in this lifetime, so now you’re on the eternal spiritual platform. Welcome home.
Jaya Prabhupada!
Hare Krsna, dear Sudarsana Prabhu!
I know about that Madhu Pandit and Krishnakant Prabhu was in Banglore together at the beginning. Afterwards Krishnakant Prabhu pulled back. Probably he had a private opinion about Madhu Pandit. The leader of IRM keeps quiet and Madhu Pandit has got rich sponsors, – there is a steady support from the Government of India, the various State Governments and associated organisations to feed 1,4 million children only in 2014. Who would want or would be able to remove him?
You can expose him in your writing ( Clinton, Monsanto …) I think many devotees know these things mainly by only you.
Unfortunately I can not tell you more encourage thing because I am an none.
Hare Krsna,
ys marica
Yes Marica Prabhu,
Clinton, Bill Gates, Monsanto, Madhu Pandit and the Indian Government (State and Federal) they are all ‘pals together’, no big surprise there as thieves, rascals and con-men love to conspire together but what has this got to do with the transcendental movement of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu? This is WHY the institution always FAILS, (trying to remain ‘on topic’ here) because as soon as goondas take control everybody says “what can I do?, I didn’t sign up for this! I do not know what is going on behind the scenes! I only see what appears on the surface! I am just being manipulated myself by political forces!”
Sure Krishnakant Prabhu keeps quiet, THAT’S WHY I DON’T LIVE IN INDIA! Devotees are still being subject to intimidation, some don’t want to have their names published (I don’t criticize them for that. That is just the situation they find themselves in!) I don’t (and never will) accept grubby liars and con-artists like Madhu Pandit for the sake of ‘expediency’ or ‘social inclusion’. The world can go to Hell if it likes! and they can ”put me up against the wall and shoot me!”, that’s alright, this is hell anyway! If you don’t have the truth, then you have nothing!
Brahminical society is what Srila Prabhupada had envisioned for the future. Brahmana means that one is knowledgeable as to how society should function for the benefit of all and is not easily fooled by mendacious, fascist politicians, grubby sudoriferous hypocrite ”religious reprobates”, Corporate (vaisha class) criminals and ”sudra-class” pseudo ”devotees”.
If there is to be some framework whereby a society can function ie: Varnashrama Dharma, there has to be a brahminical class which is INCORRUPTABLE and not ”putty in the hands of moneyed men, sleazy politicians and the criminal corporate class” anything else is just a waste of time and effort.
“For want of me the worlds course will not fail, when all it’s work is done, the lie shall rot! The truth is great and shall prevail where none cares whether it prevail or not”………
Anon
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Hare Krsna, dear Amar Puri Prabhu!
Dalai Lama gave an account of his mistake in his life.
One of his monks came to his. This monk would have liked to do a hard spiritual practise. His master said:
-Oh, you are too old. This practise should be started in early childhood.
The monk thanked the answer humbly and he departed. He committed suicide because he
did not want to waste of time in this life.
—————–
In your opinion in horoscope of the Hunter did Narada Muni appear or not?
Hare Krsna,
ys marica
marica prabhu says ;
His master said:
-Oh, you are too old. This practise should be started in early childhood.
The monk thanked the answer humbly and he departed. He committed suicide because he
did not want to waste of time in this life.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
That is a perfect example of both the Master and his disciple as to HOW both of them are totally IGNORANT without having the authorized perfect source of the knowledge.
With regard to your an other question ; ” In your opinion in horoscope of the Hunter did Narada Muni appear or not?
I am sorry, I have no idea of what you are referring to. Therefore, I can not answer until you elaborate more what horoscope of the Hunter did Narada Muni appear or not .
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krsna, Sudarsana Prabhu!
Sudarsana Prabhu: “If you don’t have the truth, then you have nothing”
——————–
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14.6.)
If we do not want the Truth there is no way and life, and we will lose the God. We will get Maya.
Thank you for your comments.
Hare Krsna,
ys marica
Hare Krsna, LW Prabhu!
Shortly: the taltos level is above the saman level. He uses only meditation, no drug. He cures, teaches and he works by good help of the spirit world ( spirit of the ancestors …) That is the original.
Perhaps this sounds nicely. But that is not nice. Because if you are not perfect or you are bogus then you can not control but the gosts will lead you. Unfortunately many people do not know this.
BUT we knows the conditioned soul is not perfect.
Otherwise you are very kind. You advance confidence to me.
Hare Krsna,
ys marica
Hare Krsna, Prabhus!
This Topic is too long for me. I finished.
Thank you very much for the possibility.
Hare Krsna,
ys marica
Trying to get back ‘on topic’ here I think that it is important to understand what Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada wrote in his essay ‘Organized Religion’, in which he is stating that ‘The Institution’ is doomed at it’s inception due to the nature of conditioned, worldly consciousness.
The backlash of ‘anti organized religious sentiment’ in Ireland is a good example of this. Does this mean that Irish people are ‘less spiritually inclined’?…..I think not!…..only that they are sick to death of hypocrites, sleazy, pedophile priests, and greedy worldly money-grabbing ”Institutions”.
This is why I believe that Temples should be kept very simple and more emphasis should be placed on ‘Public Spaces’ (gardens, dioramas, restaurant, mini farm yard, gift shop, music etc etc..) to ATTRACT MAINSTREAM PUBLIC IN A “NEUTRAL SPACE” TO FACILITATE THE DISTRIBUTION OF SRILA PRABHUPADA’S ORIGINAL BOOKS [by way of small entrance fee] and create an income for devotees that is more within the idea of preaching.
The term ‘Museum” is more conducive to attract mainstream populace as it is a ”neutral, public space” and invokes an element of knowledge, history, culture and natural curiosity, rather than the term ”Temple” which suggests exclusion, dogmatism, proselytizing, parochialism and distrust of ”organized religion”, which MOST PEOPLE HAVE HAD A GUT-FULL! (myself included).
Anything that will facilitate the mass distribution of Srila Prabhupada’s books is the ONLY WAY TO GO in my opinion and create also a return to rural living and ‘private spaces’ for devotees to live, making for a stronger community with Srila Prabhupada at the centre.
Just a thought there……..
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
The full version (essay) of which ‘Organized Religion’ has been excerpted was actually one of 3 parts, the essay entitled ‘Putana’ is the one which ‘Organized Religion’ is derived (shortened version). These (3) were written by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada in the mid 30s and relate to 3 demons (one of course being Putana). These 3 demons are representations of anarthas (material attachments) which are great impediments in our path towards self realization and enlightenment.
This is a very powerful statement Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur is making here about organized religion and how it tries to stifle and destroy our natural spiritual awakenings from the beginning of our lives in the material world, but for the sincere enlightened sadhaka is powerless to stop it when one REFUSES TO COMPROMISE.
Vaisnava Dasanudas
Sudarsana