Syamasundara: Arthur Schopenhauer was the first Western philosopher to read some of the Vedas. He read Bhagavad-gita and other Vedic scriptures. So he concluded that all phenomenon are mere illusions, or maya. He uses that word maya. This world is simply illusory.
Prabhupada: That also we say, but it is not irrational. There is rationality. There is regulation. The sun is moving, the moon is moving—not irrationally, quite in order. Everything is in order. We cannot say it is irrational.
Syamasundara: Just like all of our desires that we have are never fulfilled.
Prabhupada: That will never take place. Just like in a prison house, if the prisoners desire something, no, it will never furnish it. It is meant for punishment. So he’ll have to abide by the desires of the jail superintendent. He cannot. Similarly, here every living entity is a prisoner. The superintendent of prisons is Durga Devi. Durga means fort: you cannot go out, conditioned. So therefore frustration is the law here.
Syamasundara: Yeah, he points that out.
Prabhupada: So, but the thing is, that one should be rational that why there is frustration here? That “why” question is answered in the Vedanta-sutra, athato brahma jijnasa. Now it is spoiled. Kenopanisad. Why? That is the rationality. I don’t want to be frustrated, but I am forced to be frustrated. I don’t want to die, but I am forced to die. I don’t want to become old, I am forced to become old. Now this rationality must be awakened to why this is happening. That is what is required. Nature is working in that way so that I may be intelligent to inquire “Why?” Then there will be question, and by questioning and answering through bona fide spiritual master, we’ll come to the conclusion that what is the aim of this world.
Syamasundara: He says that this world is composed of two parts: idea and will. That the ideas are sense experiences that we perceive in the world, and they are mere representatives of the will, but the will is the ultimate reality.
Prabhupada: That idea is illusion.
Syamasundara: Yes. But he says that will is the ultimate reality. Something is…
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, will is ultimate reality, we also admit. Because we desire, we will like this. We will that we shall be enjoyer of the material world. Idea was that “I shall become like Krishna.” This was the idea, and therefore I will. And Krishna gave us chance, “All right, you come here and fulfill your desire.” So they are implicated in so many karma, and becoming more and more involved. So according to karma he is getting different types of body, and there is no end. It is going on.
Syamasundara: Yes, he says that the will is eternal, and it is always incarnated in one body after another. But he describes it as a force…
Prabhupada: Yes, it is a force.
Syamasundara: …an impersonal force.
Prabhupada: Impersonal or personal, that will be discussed later on. First of all there is force, and he is being forced. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. He had associated with one of the modes of material nature, and as such he is being forced to act according to the nature. Just like you met your friend, she is forced. Nobody likes that, a wretched life, but she is forced, because she has associated with a certain material modes of nature. Just like these hippies, they are forced. They are coming from respectable family, there is no scarcity of money, and still they are lying on the street in wretched dress, wretched habits. So that this nature is forcing, “You do this.” Prakrteh kriyamanani. Because he has associated with a certain type of quality of the nature, he will be forced. Karanam guna-sangasya sad-asad-yoni janmasu. The different types of species of life, the cause is karanam, cause, is guna-sangasya. As he is associating with the material qualities.
Syamasundara: But is this force irrational and blind? This is what he thinks.
Prabhupada: No, this is not irrational. That will. You desire, you will like that, and as soon as you will, immediately material nature is helpful: “Yes, take this help,” and you take the help and we are forced.
I is in my opinion very speculative to state with certainty that “Arthur Schopenhauer was the first Western philosopher to read some of the Vedas” Pythagoras is said to have read The Upanishads (6th century BC) but information about him is very contentious and sketchy. It is more accepted that Greek, Heliodorus was a devotee of Lord Vishnu as he left a stone carved column which substantiates this fact (The Heliodorus Column). It is also ‘highly likely’ that Heliodorus (because of his devotion to Lord Vishnu) had access to Vedic scriptures also. This could also be said of Socrates and Plato. Pythagoras lived around 3 centuries before Socrates. Pythagoras is said to have also believed in reincarnation, transmigration of the soul and vegetarianism. Western history is very inconsistent so these things can only be understood ”with an open mind (a pinch of salt ,so to speak) so certainty is not possible.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
You’re right, Prabhu. Publication of this book was delayed for a long time because the facts were not presented correctly to Srila Prabhupada on a number of occasions throughout when discussing various philosophies and philosophers. Pehaps they eventually made some corrections or changes, not sure. But whatever happened, the interviews were known to be a little iffy due to the imperfect representations put forward by Prabhupada’s secretary and interviewer at the time.