Prabhupada: The whole theory, Darwin’s theory, is a false theory. It has no sound background. He says it is theory. Theory is not science. I can propose some theory, “It is like that.” But that is not science. Science means observation and experiment. That is science. You observe how the rules are working, and when you practically bring them into experiment, then it is science. If you simply theorize, that is not science. Mental speculation. It has no benefit. You can speculate, constructing a castle in the air. That is not a very good thing. You should present something which will benefit the people, and practical. That is science.
Carol: Do you think it is possible to live in say an education framework, or should it be something quite separate?
Prabhupada: Education, if it is not for the benefit of the people, then what is the use of such education? That is not a good education. Education means something which will benefit the mass of people. That is education. To enlighten them to do something better. That is education. And this whole Darwin’s theory is false. But people are giving too much stress. First of all, anyone, even Darwin, he’s not independent. Just like Darwin has died. So, he is under the control of something higher. Nobody wants to die, but he is forced to die. Is it not? Then where is his independence?
Carol: That is the illusion.
Prabhupada:? Yes, so if you simply in illusion you live, then where is your education? If you remain in darkness, then where is your education? Illusion means darkness. So if you are in darkness, now what is your education? And where is your philosophy?
Carol: The only way to remove this darkness is through love. Is this what you are saying?
Prabhupada: Love is far away. First of all you be educated.
Carol: How? In what way?
Prabhupada: Education means right knowledge. Right knowledge. Just like, everyone wants to live. Nobody wants to die. So, the enquiry should be that “I do not wish to die. Why death is forced upon me?” What is that force? What is the nature of that force? If I submit, “Yes, the force is there,” then where is my knowledge? I do not wish to die. So why death is forced upon me? Nobody wants miserable condition of life, but miserable condition of life is enforced upon me. So this should be first of all enquired, that I do not want these things, and who is enforcing upon me these things? This is the first enquiry, philosophical.
Carol: I tend to approach from the other side and ask “Who am I?” and “What is this thing that I call myself?”
Prabhupada: It is everyone’s problem. I don’t want something, but something is enforced upon me. Just like you are now a young girl. You do not like to be old woman. But you will have to become old woman.
Carol: Become? Oh, yes. Hmm.
Prabhupada: Nature will force you that after forty years of age you must become old, and you must not remain so beautiful. This is forced. But no one wants that. No woman wants that “I shall look not beautiful and my flesh should be flabby and no more luster. I don’t want all these things.” Why it is forced?
Carol: Suffering and pain leads people to God, doesn’t it?
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the law, but we are so dull-headed that we do not enquire. That is my statement, that you should enquire “Who is forcing these things?” Then there is enquiry of God. First of all we must be… Just like a dog. He cannot understand. He’s under chain. He’s leading a life most dependent. And he is jolly. He is jumping here and there. That is dog’s life. If the master kills him, he cannot do anything. But he is very jolly. He is jumping. That is dog’s life. But not human life. Human life is that I am dependent in every step, still I am declaring independent. What is this nonsense? This enquiry should be there. He is dependent in every step, exactly like the cats and dogs, but he is claiming, “I am independent.”
Carol: Is it possible to carry out that enquiry while you’re engaged in activities?
Prabhupada: Yes. That is the real enquiry. Wherefrom my life has begun? What is the ultimate goal of my life? Why I am put into these conditions which I do not like? Who is enforcing? These things should be asked. That is the proper enquiry of the human being. And we cannot solve the question of birth, death, old age and disease, and you are theorizing something utopian. What is the use of such advancement of knowledge? I live for fifty years and sixty years, and the Darwin’s theory they are calculating gap of millions of years. There is a gap of millions of years, and we will live for fifty years. How we are taking calculation of millions of years? Speculation simply. And misleading people. An honest man should not mislead others. He should understand that his knowledge is limited. How can I say something theorizing? That is not very good business. And misleading people. I have no perfect knowledge. I am theorizing. What is the use? I have no actually accurate knowledge, and I am theorizing. I am misleading people. Big bluff. That is going on. An honest man should not take part in big bluffs. First of all you must have accurate knowledge, and I am theorizing. I am misleading people. Big bluffs. First of all you must have accurate knowledge. Then you bring knowledge to others. That is our proposition. First of all make your life perfect, then you try to give knowledge. If you have no knowledge, vague knowledge, not definite knowledge, then why should you try to give knowledge to others?
Carol: Can you have perfect knowledge?
Prabhupada: What?
Carol: Can you have perfect knowledge,…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Carol: I mean ultimately you might say that I might be able to have some, but it’s still a bit doubtful. In the near future how could you ever…
Prabhupada: Perfect knowledge you can immediately, provided you take knowledge from the perfect. If you receive knowledge from a bogus person, then how you can have perfect knowledge? Knowledge has to be received from a person. Why shall I go to a school, college, teachers, guru? To receive knowledge. So if your teacher, guru or parent, those who are your superior, if they are perfect, then you get perfect knowledge. But if your teacher is a bogus, then you get bogus knowledge.
Carol: And this is immediate, is it?
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like we are giving knowledge from Bhagavad- gita. This is perfect knowledge. You take it; you become perfect.
Room Conversation
with Carol Cameron
His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
May 9, 1975, Perth
Full Conversation: http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/750509rc.per.htm
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