“The evolution is not matter, there is spirit soul.”
Syamasundara: The Evolutionist want to search out what is the pattern of evolution, how it will go in the future, and he says that because man has progressed from the instinctive stage to the intelligent stage, and then to the intuitive stage, that he will obtain eventually the immortal stage, that he will become…
Prabhupada: That is nice. That immortal stage is described in the Bhagavatam, or the Bhagavad-gita. Yad gatva na nivartante [Bg. 15.6]. Progress means you go, go. Gamati iti gatih, or progress. You go, go, go. So when you come to this stage… Therefore in the Vedas it is said, om tad visnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti surayah. Surayah, means those who are learned, those who are advanced in knowledge. They are called surayah. So they are always looking forward to the lotus feet of Visnu. Just like modern scientists are going, trying to go to the moon planet, so when they start, they are looking forward to the moon planet.
Similarly, those who are learned, they are simply looking forward to the lotus feet of Visnu: “When I shall reach there?” That goal is there. They are not missing the goal. Om tad visnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti surayah. This is the Rg Veda mantra. They know their goal. But they have to reach still, yet to go there. Just like our Krishna conscious people, they know what is the goal, Krishna, Goloka Vrndavana. So this is the attempt, how to reach there, how to reach there. That’s all. We are not blind, but these people are blind. They do not know what is the goal. By philosophizing, they simply mislead. That is explained in the Bhagavata: andha, a blind man is trying to lead other blind men. If you do not know, why you are philosophizing? Unless you have got the ideal goal for evolutionary progress, why you talk of these things? What do you think? Huh? So that is explained in the Bhagavata. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas. Andha. One blind man is trying to lead another blind man. So what is the use of such leading? You must have eyes; then you can ask other hundreds of blind men, “Please come behind me. I shall get you across.” But if you have no eyes, then why you are asking others? Philosophizing.
Syamasundara: It seems like these two philosophers have two different viewpoints. The first one, Huxley, said man can take nature into his own hand and mold his own evolution.
Prabhupada: That is nonsense.
Syamasundara: Whereas this philosopher thinks that we should just…, that the vital force is guiding everyone and creating its own evolution, that we should just drift in the course of things and the vital force will determine history or will determine our future.
Prabhupada: Yes. Vital force will determine. That is somewhat…
Syamasundara: Without our doing, without anything of our doing.
Prabhupada: No. Vital force must know how to make progress how to do it. Then he’ll be… If he does not know how to do it, how it will be possible? Can you do anything? Suppose you are learning some mechanical business, can you do it without direction? You have to learn. You must get a teacher. So without teacher, that is not possible.
Syamasundara: Just like the seasons. If we just place ourselves in the seasons, they take us toward something, towards springtime.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. But you cannot compare. The analogy is mistaken. The season is matter, material changes. But the evolution is not matter. There is spirit soul. He is making his evolution. So he has got independence. He can reject and accept. Just like yesterday we were talking …Krishna. Krishna says that “You give up everything, just surrender unto Me,” but because you are living entity, you can reject this proposal or accept this proposal. Not that blindly you have to surrender to Krishna. No. That is not possible. The proposal is there, but it is up to you to surrender or not to surrender. Otherwise why Krishna says that “You do it.” If it is automatically, then there was no need of Krishna’s saying, “Do it.” It would have come automatically to the surrendering point. Not like that. They are mistaken in that. The living entity has got the right to accept or reject. So if he takes, he makes his progress, accepting the right path, then he comes to the goal. But if he rejects, he’ll not reach the goal. That depends on him.
Syamasundara: So this philosopher Bergson, he sees two types of morality. The “closed morality,” which is the compulsive forms of behavior, which conform to prevailing convention or social pressure or tradition; static morality, one simply follows the tradition blindly.
Prabhupada: That can be changed according to the… Just like in some scriptures it is said that “Thou shall not kill.” So the killing is ordinary thing there. But in some society killing is already prohibited by so much culture that they do not want to kill even an ant. So that depends on education of the particular society. It is not static, that “This will be like this.” No. Not like that. “One man’s food another man’s poison.” What is morality in one society, it may be immorality in another society.
Syamasundara: Yes. So the other type of morality he calls “open morality.” This is determined by individuals in a dynamic way, blazing new trails, guided by…
Prabhupada: As soon as it is invented by individual men or society, this is all rascaldom. It has no value.
Syamasundara: He calls it “the higher morality.” Just like St. Paul or some great saint receives inspiration from God and he blazes a new trail to morality in a society.
Prabhupada: That is nice. Because he is God conscious, he can dictate what is real morality.
Syamasundara: He’s speaking of the case of St. Paul.
Prabhupada: So St. Paul, he’s a sadhu. So our process is that: sadhu-guru-sastra. We have to accept everything through saintly person, confirmed by the scripture, and described or explained by guru. Then it is perfect. The scriptures are already there, and we have to see how the scriptures are being followed by saintly persons. And if there is any difficulty, they should be explained by the spiritual master. Then it is perfect. Sadhu-guru-sastra-vakya, tinete kariya aikya. Scriptures you cannot understand directly. Then you have to see how the scriptural injunctions are being followed by saintly persons. Even if you cannot understand, then the spiritual master will explain to you.
full conversation: http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/EVOLUTIONISTS.SYA.htm
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