David Lawrence: “George’s Record is so devotional, you know. It’s really beautiful”

David Lawrence, July 12, 1973, London: It was tremendous. In fact, one boy we found listening to the George Harrison record. You can tell George this if you like. He was listening to the record quietly in the music room that we have at our school with the big speakers, you know. Lots of noise. And he was reading these words. And he put the words down. And I was watching him…

Prabhupada: “I am in material world.”

David Lawrence: Yes. “Living in the material world.”

Prabhupada: That is a very nice song.

David Lawrence: And he sat there, and he was praying. And I didn’t interfere. And he came out of the room after having turned the record player off. I said, “Well, you know, what were you doing in there?” And he said, “This, this record has been a complete experience to me.” And that, if George could know that… It was tremendous, really tremendous to see this happening. George’s record is so devotional, you know. It’s really beautiful.

Prabhupada: I talked with him about this material world in his house… When?

Syamasundara: Oh, it was last August, I think. Or July.

Prabhupada: Last… I went to his house at Henley on the Thames.

David Lawrence: Henlent?

Prabhupada: He’s a nice boy, very nice boy. His wife is also very nice. Patty?

David Lawrence: Patty, yes.

Prabhupada: She’s also devotee.

David Lawrence: Pass that on, please, to George. He should be very excited, I think, about that. This is very good. I’d like to thank you very much for giving of your time.

Prabhupada: You are welcome because you are sincere student searching after… I am prepared to help you any time.

David Lawrence: I do hope that anything I produce will…

Prabhupada: Yes.

David Lawrence: …, you know, very adequately represent the movement. I’m going to give it to…

Prabhupada: Your, these students, they’ll be benefited if you…

David Lawrence: I think so.

Prabhupada: They will benefit. Yes, actually.

David Lawrence: I hope so.

Prabhupada: And it is the duty of the guardians to see that the children are actually spiritually benefited. There is a verse… Pita na sa syat gurur na sa syat. You have got Bhagavata?

Pradyumna: It’s upstairs.

Prabhupada: Bhagavata? Find out that. Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. How it is instructed. If you introduce these literatures in the schools for study—because you are religious teacher—oh, it will play…

David Lawrence: I think so. And, you know, we hope to…

Prabhupada: …revolution in the spiritual ideas.

David Lawrence: We hope to produce it so cheaply that schools will buy it readily. You know. Almost be, well, you know, not free, but handed out…

Prabhupada: No, we can give you paperback, cheap edition.

David Lawrence: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. We can… If you… We can… A very cheap edition. Or we’ll print here, cheap.

David Lawrence: The Krishna Books? Krishnna Books?

Prabhupada: Yes.

David Lawrence: I have an order that I have to get to on those…

Prabhupada: Krishna Books?

David Lawrence: Yes. Some of my boys saw my copy, and they were reading it and er…

Syamasundara: How old are they?

David Lawrence: These are fourteen-year-olds, these ones.

Syamasundara: Fourteen.

David Lawrence: And I’ve got an order for Back to Godhead and…, besides this.

Prabhupada: Hm. And here is a verse, the guidance to the guardians: pita na sa syat… What is? Gurur na sa syat.

Pradyumna: (Flipping pages) Is it, is that in Fifth Canto.

Prabhupada: Yes, Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. Na mocayed yah samupeta-mrtyum.

Pradyumna:

gurur na sa syat sva-jano na sa syat pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat daivam na tat syan na patis ca sa syan na mocayed yah samupeta-mrtyum

Prabhupada: Samupeta-mrtyum. So the idea is one should not become spiritual master. Gurur na sa syat. Then?

Pradyumna: Sva-jano na sa syat.

Prabhupada: One should not become his kinsman. This is negative side, going on. One should not become a spiritual master, one should not pose himself as kinsman… Gurur na sa syat sva-jano na sa syat. Then?

Pradyumna: Pita na sa syat.

Prabhupada: One should not become a father. And pita na sa syat, janani na sa syat. One should not claim to become mother. Then?

Pradyumna: Daivam na tat syan.

Prabhupada: One should not… Because somebody worships some forms of God. So that gods should also not be worshiped. Then? Go on.

Pradyumna: Na pitas ca sa syan.

Prabhupada: Na pita?

Pradyumna: Oh, na patis ca sa syan.

Prabhupada: Ah, na patih. And one should not become husband also. Because husband is supposed to be instructor to the wife. Husband is the guardian of the wife. So he’s responsible for her spiritual advancement. As much as the father is responsible for the spiritual advancement of his child, the spiritual master is responsible… Anyone who is claiming to be superior, he should be responsible for the inferior’s spiritual advancement of life. So the conclusion is that they should not claim to become such and such unless they are able to save the subordinate from the imminent danger of death. Because death is there so long one is not spiritually advanced. As soon as one is spiritually advanced, he goes to the spiritual world, transferred. Mad-yajino ’pi yanti mam. Spiritually advancement means to be transferred to the spiritual world. So this is the main business of the father, of the husband, of the spiritual master, of the king, of the guardian, of kinsmen. Everyone should be alert: “Whether I am helping my subordinate in the spiritual advancement of life.” Because that will save him from the repetition of birth and death. And otherwise, what benefit you can do? If he’s under the laws of karma, if he’s going to become a cat or dog in next life, what help you have given to him? If he’s under the laws of karma, then your help is no use. Your help is no use.

David Lawrence: It’s a tremendous responsibility.

Prabhupada: Yes. Tremendous responsibility. So everyone should be responsible to save his subordinate from the laws of karma. So laws of karma can be broken. Karmani nirdahati ca bhakti-bhajam. One who has taken to Krishna consciousness, bhakti, devo…, bhakti-yoga, he’s no longer under the laws of karma.