Understanding the ‘Sub-conscious’ (nitya-baddha) Dream Condition

Gauragopala das, Australia: Understanding the ‘sub-conscious’ (nitya-baddha) dream condition of the marginal living entity that enters the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.

It is Srila Prabhupada who has said – “Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things”.
(PrabhupadaBooks.com)

Srila Prabhupada – “We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krishna. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position.

Srila Prabhupada – “Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krishna desire for sense gratification is there. There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krishna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there”.

Srila Prabhupada – “We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krishna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with Krishna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration, therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krishna consciousness”.

It is Srila Prabhupada who has said that in fact we do not really fall from the spiritual world. We simply forget our relationship with Krishna. We are like a dreaming man. He is sleeping in his own bed, but he forgets this and dreams he is somewhere else. When he wakes up from his dream, he finds himself still in his own bed. Actually, he never left the bed. Similarly, when we desire to forget Krishna we are put into the dream of material life. Actually, we do not fall. We remain in our position, but we simply forget it and in the dream of material life it appears we have fallen away from our original position. But when we wake up from the dream of material life, we find ourselves still in our original position, where we had been all along.

Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period is considered as a second”.

Acaryavilas dasa has written – The Sanskrit word svarupa is a composite of sva (own) and rupa (form), which translates as own form, or intrinsic form. Thus soul is non-different from his svarupa – it is his own form. The Sanskrit term nitya-siddha-svarupa translates as the eternally perfect intrinsic form [of the soul] .

Comment – Yes, what this means is our perpetual ‘svarupa’ or our ‘nitya-siddha bodily form’ is always in Goloka, Srila Prabhupada confirms this –

Srila Prabhupada – “You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this Maya. This is called Maya”.
(Caitanya-caritamrta lecture, San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada continuous – “Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. Don’t you sometimes dream that tiger is eating you? Is there any tiger? You are simply thinking. So if you keep in Krishna consciousness, that nonsense thinking will go away. Therefore we have to keep ourselves always in Krishna-thinking so that this dream will never come. If you are always awakened, then dream never comes. So keep yourself always awakened by Krishna consciousness. All right. Distribute prasadam”.
(Caitanya-caritamrta lecture, San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada – “Awakening or dreaming, I am the same man. As soon as I awaken and see myself, I see Krishna. Cause and effect are both Krishna. Just like cotton becomes thread and thread becomes cloth, still, the original cause is cotton. Therefore, everything is Krishna in the ultimate sense. When we cannot contact Krishna personally, we contact His energies. So there is no chance to be outside Krishna’s lila. But differences we see under different conditions. Just like in the pool of water and in the mirror the same me is reflecting, but in different reflections. One is shimmering, unsteady, one is clear and fixed. Except for being in Krishna consciousness, we cannot see our actual position rightly, therefore the learned man sees all living entities as the same parts and parcels of Krishna”.

Acaryavilas dasa has further written – Therefore if the nitya-siddha-svarupa does not “leave” Goloka-Vrndavana, then this is tantamount to saying soul remains in Goloka and thus the soul is not located within the material universes.

Answer – You are thinking within the limitations of your own inadequate mind. To understand this paradox we must understand the ‘eternal present’ of Goloka in relation to the ‘past, present and future’ of the mahat-tattva. The jiva can actually appear ‘seemingly’ in both places simultaneously however ones ‘svarupa’ or nitya-siddha body never falls from Goloka.

Srila Prabhupada – “This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krishna desire for sense gratification is there”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Why you should dictate God? God has created perfectly. He has given you independence. You fall down. It is your fault. God has made you perfect, given you independence. But if you misuse your independence, you fall down. Just like government gives everyone opportunity. Why do you become criminal and go to the jail? That is your fault”.
(Morning Walk — December 6, 1973, Los Angeles)

Acaryavilas dasa future writes – Nitya-siddha-svarupa translates as the eternally perfect intrinsic form of the soul. To say that the eternally perfect soul “sub-consciously dreams” of material existence gives rise to fundamental contradictions with Vedic Vaishnava Siddhanta

Answer – No, you do not understand how the term ‘sub-conscious’ as ‘nitya-baddha’ is being used. The marginal living entities in Goloka ALWAYS have the free-will to choose Krishna or their own selfish desires, it is those non-Krishna conscious desires that are referred to as the ‘sub-conscious condition’ of the marginal living entity (nitya-baddha) which enters the mahat-tattva.

The nitya-siddha terminology is always Krishna Conscious eternally however, the marginal living entity can choose to ignore that eternal nitya-siddha ‘svarupa’ body and enter the material creation as nitya-baddha dream state (the sub-conscious condition of the marginal living entity) That choice is always there and makes us marginal (tatastha-s’akti) even in Goloka.

Srila Prabhupada – “The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world’.
(Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada – “After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world . . . There is possibility . . . even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world.”
(Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on July 4, 1974)

Without the ability to choose, even in Goloka, then how can there be genuine love and the individual ability to always expand those loving emotions and service to beautiful Krishna? Of course that means we can also misuse that free will.

The term sub-conscious simply means when the marginal living entity uses their free will and chooses to leave Goloka. This means they are NOT leaving as their full conscious nitya-siddha body, but rather they ‘leave’ as their sub-conscious condition, which is called the nitya-baddha state of consciousness.

The paradox is, yes, the marginal living entity never leaves Goloka as their nitya-siddha body unless its for Krishna lila) because ones eternal spiritual body is eternally fixed within the ‘eternal presents’ of Goloka.

Srila Prabhupada – “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.”
(Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

Ravindra Svarupa Dasa – “The example Srila Prabhupada uses comes directly from the Bhagavatam verse. A dreaming person manufactures an alternate dream-self (nitya-baddha) that he temporarily takes to be his real identity. Thus, the dreamer imagines himself undergoing all kinds of adventures. In a nightmare he dreams he is running in panic through a dense jungle at night, a huge and hungry tiger chasing him down. With a thudding heart, he hears the tiger coming inexorably closer. Then claws rake his back, and fangs crush his neck, and he wakes up screaming in terror. With relief he sees he is safe in bed. The fictional dream-self is gone. All along he had been safe in his own bed. He was never lost in any tiger-infested jungle.
(BTG.Krishna.com)

Srila Prabhupada – “No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode.
(Bhag. 3.16.26, purport)

This clearly means our nitya-siddha svarupa body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY ‘DREAM’, ‘THINK’ OR ‘IMAGINE’ WE LEAVE. In this way the mahat-tattva is the destination for where such dreams go. Such an inferior non-Krishna conscious facsimile of the self is called the nitya-baddha sub-conscious self. It is there they are provided with temporary bodily forms or vessels created by Maha-Vishnu who is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva or material creation aspect of the Spiritual Sky.

Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes:

yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga
nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah

‘This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.”
(Purport to SB. 4.29.83)

Srila Prabhupada – “You are already in the spiritual sky (Krishnaloka), but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there you are also already there. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, that is material. Try to understand”.
(Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971)

Srila Prabhupada – ” Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, I have nothing to do with the material. I am simply Krishna’s servant. Eternal servant. That’s all”.
(Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971)

Srila Prabhupada – “The spark of soul “originally” comes from the spiritual world to the material world . . . there is a bona fide method for the attainment of spiritual perfection by the spiritual spark of soul, and, if he is properly guided, then he is very easily sent back home, back to Godhead, where from he originally fell.”
(1968 letter by Prabhupada to Canadian cardiologist Wilfred G. Bigelow)