Hari-sauri, February 14, 1977, Mayapura: […] So the varnasrama system is like for the kanisthas, Kanistha-adhikari.
Prabhupada: Kanistha?
Hari-sauri: When one is only on the platform of neophyte.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Kanistha-adhikari, yes.
Hari-sauri: Varnasrama system is beneficial.
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari means he must be a brahmana. That is kanistha-adhikari. The spiritual life, kanistha-adhikari, means he must be a qualified brahmana. That is kanistha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brahmana, that is kanistha-adhikari.
arcayam eva haraye pujam yah sraddhayehate na tad-bhaktesu canyesu sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah
The brahmana means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the spiritual stage. And below the brahmana there is no question of Vaishnava.
Hari-sauri: No question of?
Prabhupada: Vaishnavism.
srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah hrdy antah-stho hy abhadrani vidhunoti suhrt satam [Bhag. 1.2.17]
By becoming a brahmana, hearing, hearing, hearing… Or by hearing, hearing, hearing, he becomes a brahmana. The other qualities, sudra quality, ksatriya, vaisya, means finished.
So then next stage is, srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah, hrdy antah… Nasta-prayesv abhadresu. By this process, hearing… Without becoming a brahmana nobody is interested to hear. Then, by hearing, nasta-prayesv abhadresu, then abhadra, means the base qualities, means ignorance and passion…
These are the base qualities. So nasta-prayesv abhadresu. When these base qualities are finished almost, not complete, nityam bhagavata-sevaya, by hearing from Bhagavata or by serving the spiritual master and Krsna consciousness movement—
nasta-prayesv abhadresu nityam bhagavata-sevaya bhagavaty uttama-sloke bhaktir bhavati naisthiki [SB 1.2.18]
Then he becomes fixed up in devotional… This devotional service is the first-grade quality of sattva-guna.
nasta-prayesv abhadresu nityam bhagavata-sevaya bhagavaty uttama-sloke bhaktir bhavati naisthiki [SB 1.2.18]
Tada rajas-tamo-bhavah [SB 1.2.19] When one is situated as a devotee, then this base quality, rajas-tamah, ignorance and passion, the symptoms: kama-lobhadayas ca ye. Kama, lusty desires, and greediness.
Sex desire, strong sex desire or satisfy the senses, eating too much, lobha, greediness—these things go. Nityam bhagavata-sevaya bhagavaty uttama… When one is situated in devotional service, tada rajas-tamo-bhavah. These are rajas-tamo… These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-bhavah. Tada rajas-tamo-bhavah kama-lobhadayas ca ye, ceta etair anaviddham [SB 1.2.19].
The mind is no more disturbed with all these things. Sthitam sattve prasidati. Then he is to be understood… He’s in the sattva-guna. That is perfect brahminical life. Then he’ll be pleased. Prasidati. In this way, gradual step… So it is very difficult to bring, introduce varnasrama, but at least there must be some idea.
Just like in the university, nobody is going to study higher mathematics, higher English literature. Nobody goes even in your country. The classes are almost vacant. But still, the government does not close it. The expenditure is high, but there is no student, no income. Therefore the professors coming to us, “Give us some student.” You know that?
Satsvarupa: Religion professors.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, higher studies…
Satsvarupa: Yes. “Send us some of your men.”
Prabhupada: Nobody is interested with higher study. They want some technological understanding so that they can earn money. That’s all. This is only interest.
Satsvarupa: In our ISKCON, one becomes a brahmana after a year. It’s not very hard. Everyone becomes a brahmana.
Prabhupada: That is due to chanting. That lift very easily.
Hari-sauri: Where will we introduce the varnasrama system, then?
Prabhupada: In our society, amongst our members.
Hari-sauri: But then if everybody’s being raised to the brahminical platform…
Prabhupada: Not everybody. Why you are misunderstanding? Varnasrama, not everybody brahmana.
Hari-sauri: No, but in our society practically everyone is being raised to that platform. So then one might ask what is…
Prabhupada: That is… Everybody is being raised, but they’re falling down.
Hari-sauri: So then we should make it more difficult to get…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: …brahminical initiation. After four or five years.
Prabhupada: Not necessary. You remain as a ksatriya. You’ll be ha…
Hari-sauri: No need for even any brahmana initiation, then…
Prabhupada: No, no.
Hari-sauri: …unless one is…
Prabhupada: No, brahmana must be there. Why do you say, generalize?
Hari-sauri: Unless one is particularly…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: …inclined.
Prabhupada: Not that a sudra man is by force become a brahmana. You cannot improve. That is not possible. But even if he remains a sudra and does accordingly, he will get the same position as devotee. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya sam… He’ll get the perfection.
At the present moment the idea is: if one remains a sudra, then he cannot get perfection. No. Even a sudra can get perfection provided he does the work of a sudra perfectly.
Hari-sauri: For Krsna.
Prabhupada: Therefore why a sudra artificially should be a brahmana? Let them, let him remain a sudra, and if he follows strictly the rules and regulation of sudra, he’ll also be as good as a brahmana. The same example: Just like head is as important as my leg.
It is not that because it is leg, it is less important than my head. And if you ask the head, “Do the work of a leg,” it is impossible. And if you ask the leg to work as a brain, that is impossible. Let him remain brain, let him remain leg, and do your duty and you become perfect.
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