Not all who abandon Srila Prabhupada’s Sanga for Narayana Maharaja are thorns, not all of them are liars, but he throws even those who are not into the street, because they are women, or because they are Westerners, or because he has a headache, or because they still see Srila Prabhupada as being on the same level as Narayana Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja as being not a bit higher.
They who may waken may see Narayana Maharaja as being not at all in any position from which he can consider Srila Prabhupada’s advice to anyone, not even to himself, as being useless or not needed. They who may awaken may consider that Srila Prabhupada’s purports, his explanations and advice to them, to his disciples and to the whole world, are in no need of correction and Narayana Maharaja is in no position from which he is qualified to fault-find Srila Prabhupada, to say that he is wrong.
Their inclusion in Narayana Maharaja’s sanga is very much a discomforting thing for him. Use them as thorns to remove other thorns and then get rid of them quick. Replace them with real devotees, the ones who have no problem with Narayana Maharaja saying that Srila Prabhupada is wrong, no problem at all with considering that every time Srila Prabhupada says something, they can only accept it if Narayana Maharaja nods his head that it’s right.
Draw your own conclusions. I have drawn mine, and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist.
Considering both Narayana Maharaja as well as Srila Prabhupada to be uttama-adhikaris, upon the same level, instead of being second class, at best, as Narayana Maharaja’s own words reveal that he considers Srila Prabhupada to be, I can understand how it is that he considers these too, even the disciples of Srila Prabhupada who have joined him, to be thorns. Even when they are supporting him by trying to get ISKCON to turn all of it’s “Raja palaces” over to him, any minute he could say something and they could have a light bulb come on. Any day, any one of them could sudedenly stir, could suddenly wake up and say, “Hey, wait a minute, if you’re on the same level, you can’t tell Srila Prabhupada that he is wrong.” And then depending upon who it is, all Hell could break loose.
How much he yearns to throw these thorns out into the street, especially before they realize what he’s doing, before they awaken from their zombie sleep I cannot imagine, but without them, his dreams of acquiring ISKCON don’t stand a chance, even in his own mind.
In parts 1, 2, and 3 of “What I Think of Narayana Maharaja”, I, a fool and a rascal have dared to criticize someone whom many believe to be a pure devotee of Krsna. Some however, incluing his own good self Narayana Maharaja, also believe that person (himself) to be at a level upon which he (Narayana Maharaja) can refuse to accept advice from A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabupada and feels free to correct it, to say that it is wrong when it is offered to everyone. Because of this later consideration I am not very worried about Hell or any other thing, except perhaps a bullet or a knife in the back from one of the particles of dust from Narayana Maharajas lotus feet. Still, being as I am a member of secular society and not an actual initiated disciple or nominal member of any of your sangas, that might not be such a good idea. The publics attitude towards devotees killing devotees is one thing, and their attitude towards members of a cult led by a bearded and turbined master is another…
Well, if it happens it happens, but nah, if I go to Hell it won’t be because I have offered evidence to prove the claims I have made, or for making such claims. You don’t go to Hell for telling the truth, or for even telling the truth as you see it. Those who can be most damaged by the truth, of course, want you to be fearful and they are always warning about Hell, just to keep your minds dead. Fear is the mind killer, but if you don’t learn to think independently, for whatever reason, if you don’t wake up to what’s right in front of you and learn to add them together, the one plus ones, then you’ll be a blind faith and mindless follower forever. And that’s never been a requirement, because Krsna consciousness is scientific.
You simply take however many pounds of stool you happen to me made of, add to it the mind of a fool and a rascal, follow the instructions of a bona fide spiritual master with some sincerity, and if you’ve actually been looking for the truth, God help you, you’ll find it. Then you’ll have to ask yourself if you want it, and then you’ll have to live with it. Then the truth becomes your life.
We can tell that Narayana Maharaja’s followers don’t live in the truth, that they will lie, lie, lie whenever they think they need to. What can be expected from the servants of Narayana Maharaja who think that it’s perfectly ok to do just that – to lie, lie, lie whenever you need to. Are they servants or or they serpents? Is it a spirital master and his disciples, or is it snakes making more snakes? A generation of vipers.
If I were only a devotee of Krsna it might be my place to do this. Still, a rope is a rope and a snake is a snake, and if I see what I see to be a snake, I’d appreciate it if you’d at least give it a glance before you grab it. If I’m wrong I’ll apologize to both you and the snake, but if I’m right then you won’t die and that’s the important thing, isn’t it. Enough of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples have been lost already to one after another mad man’s lust for glory. How many more shall be sacrificed just because some one of us is too fearful to open his mouth and call out what his eyes see there, slithering?
Disciples of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, please open your eyes.
Someone staggers and falls dropping the flag, you don’t think twice. You don’t care if you’re the next one to die, that flag is also what you live for. If you can catch it before it touches the earth, so that your dying brother will see that you caught it even as he falls, all the better.
It doesn’t matter if you’re a devotee or not, it matters that you’re a friend, and because this flag of all flags unites all good men and women everywhere, because it separates the servants of evil minded men from those who serve the greatest good, it must not be trampled on or passed stool and urine on. It’s the flag on Arjuna’s chariot, it’s the one on the temple roof, it’s the one your great grand kids will run around with on the day of the parade. Who would not feel proud to carry it?
We will not see it used to authorize the rape and abuse of little children, or the murder of Srila Prabhupada or Jesus or anyone. Such is the thinking of those who imagine that loving devotion can be gotten at the barrel of a gun, who cheapen and profane it.
Krsna doesn’t need such things to happen to anyone, and He doesn’t accept them from anyone, and whoever imagines that such things as these are ‘worship of Krsna’ is seriously deranged.
Krsna sayas that He accepts fruit, flowers, water, not the murder of his servants or their abuse and rape. Offer fruit and flower and he will accept, offer these other, and instead you get to be an initiating guru in ISKCON and hear about Krsna’s pastimes with the gopis from Narayana Maharaja. Neither those murders and rapes nor a neophyte hearing from Narayana Maharaja about the conjugal pastimes of Radha Krsna show any evidence of ever having been good for anyone. Look what happened to both Tamal Krsna and to Satsvarupa — one way or another, both seem to have lost their head.
Not for the good of the universe, not for the good of anyone. This is not Krsna lila — something that the sahajiyas just don’t seem to get.
I left the movement shortly before Srila Prabhupada performed his final pastime, just a few moths before he called for all of his disciples to come to him, and they were prevented from going to him. I left because I didn’t know what would happen to the movement after he left, otherwise I would have abandoned my mother to certain death and stayed to find my own within it – that, or the deaths of many others and my own absolute corruption. As it is, I left. How do you make up for that? I didn’t know what would happen to the movement, I’m sorry.
I am not a disciple of anyone. Before I left, initiations of Srila Prabhupada disciples had been halted, from what I’ve read. I left the Krsna Consciousness movement as I had came to it. I left it as a guest, departing as I arrived at it’s doors — as a guest. But what I took away with me, what I had been given by Srila Prabhupada’s disciples, upon his behalf, and by his mercy, was a treasure trove of gifts.
Who am I? I am my father’s son.
Syamarani had problems with that, and so did Puru and Mahalaxsmi, three of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples who have gone over to Narayana Maharaja’s camp. Puru could just never believe it and kept asking me why I never used the name that Srila Prabhupada had given me, no matter how many times I told him that I was not an intitated disciple of anyone. Mahalaxsmi was so bothered by my nameless company that she gave me a name, one I rather like, “Prabhu das”, just that. What a nice nice name, and what a nice thing to be. Why not? Guru is one, right? And the more gurus the merrier, I mean real gurus, right?
I never was sectarian anyway, the light that is painful is the light, no matter whose hands bring it to your eyes.
I’m not fighting for ISKCON, for the Rtviks, or for anyone. I’m fighting against something, and what I’m fighting against, I’m fighting against anywhere I see it. I’m fighting against the evils that men do, or justfy in Krsna’s Names.
When one is fighting against an evil, you have to have a strong offense, that is a very important part of defense, so one must sometimes be very aggressive in defending. But as a non-devotee, it is not my place to deliver the final punch, that has already been delivered.
Narayana Maharaja is envious of Srila Prabhupada. Thank you Rocana das, your very intelligent wife, Mahavidya das, and so many others,
But wait, what is this? They’re still asleep, they cannot hear the bell? Why is that? How could that be? That’s a damn loud bell, they’d have to be dead. I cannot imagine that someone just asleep wouldn’t be woken by it. Oh, they’re sleeping in someone’s lap. How long will you sleep in the lap of the witch known as Maya, followers of Narayana Maharaja? How long will you, Narayana Maharaja, continue to lull them to sleep? You can only do this because they don’t think independently. They believe, that’s what they’ve been taught to do… it’s the easy way, it’s satisfaction, and it’s cheap.
It’s not real, but they don’t know that. It’s illusion, what you’re telling them or allowing them to believe. And no words or proofs from either you or me to the contrary will convince them, will they? We’ve the both of us tried, haven’t we? You did, after all, admit to them that you knew that your actual position was that of a lower to middle level devotee, didn’t you, in your book “The Essence of All Advice”? And I’ve been pointing this out to them for years, but danged if they just don’t up and disbelieve us both, no matter how hard we try. I guess we’ll just have to try harder, huh?
I didn’t watch the Super Bowl today, I walked around chanting and trying to give people the benediction of Krsna’s names. I have been doing this since I left the movement, not much time for anything else, the only thing that bothers me, really, is that I can’t rescue them myself and have no place to send them. This has been going on since I went down to see who had taken over, and saw Rameswara. Since that time I’ve been able to favorably influence who knows how many people to adopt a favorable attitude towards Krsna Consciousness, but I’ve never had a safe place to send them.
I cannot affor the luxury of watching baseball or writing pornographic literatures. I am not that ‘advanced’, nor can I listen to Narayana Maharaja talk about Krsna’s conjugal pastimes between the sixth and seventh innings, go down for a nap, and be up and ready for my disciple’s worhip. I don’t have that much humility. I am certainly not qualified to be accepted by anyone as a guru, but I can be accepted for just what I am – someone who thinks for himself. And that doesn’t mean always having comforting explanations to soothe you in your sleep. Independent thinkers think up questions that are challenging.
One thing I am wondering is if Narayana Maharaja is correct in his claim that uttama-adhikaris see everything. And if he is, as his disciples believe him to be, an uttama-adhikari himself, then what’s up doc? Why was he discussing Krsna’s most confidential pastimes with people who were slicing up Srila Prabhupada’s movement before Srila Prabhupada even died, who were heard to say even this by one who they were inviting to stay in the room with them, to join them as they were doing exactly this, exactly what they said they were doing, exactly that, the night before he died? Why was Narayana Maharaja discussing gopi-bhava with these ghoul’s and vultures, with Satsvarupa and Tamel Krsna, and telling them how advanced they were, how qualified they were?
Did Narayana Maharaja himself just want a slice of the pie?
What was Narayana Maharaja doing when Tamel Krsna (if what Isa das and many other of his followers and supporters believe to be true is true) was poisoning Srila Prabhupada to death? If Narayana Maharaja sees everything, which he does if what he says of uttama adhikaries is true and he is an uttama-adhikari, as some of his followers believe him to be, why did he not see this? And since he was around while it was happening, why didn’t he prevent it?
Oh, I forgot, just as the abuse and rape of little children is for the gain of the universe in Narayana Maharaja’s A.B. normal brain, so too was Srila Prabhupada’s death, even by poisoning. This is all according to Narayana Maharaja’s way of thinking, as he reveals it in his article, “Did Srila Prabhupada Know?” The dots are there prabhu’s, all you have to do is draw straight lines between each pair of them. The picture that you get isn’t pretty, but it’s fact. Do it yourself.
Whatever was needed to put Narayana Maharaja in Sirla Prabhupada’s place… even eventually (it’ll never happen), up into the position of esteem where he can openly discard all of Srila Prabhupada’s advice and purports and supply us with his own… just for the gain of the universe, of course… is in Narayana Maharaja’s mind.
Narayana Maharaja – the all-seeing, according to what he says of those who occupy the position that his disciples imagine him to occupy – sat idly by and watched as Srila Prabhupada died, watched the poison being administered, watched it going down, he saw all this, everything?
He continued to watch while children were raped and abused, while devotees were exploited, brutalized, neglected and murdered, and Narayana Maharaja, seeing and knowing all these things, did nothing except to instruct men responsible for these things in Ksna’s conjugal pastimes with the gopis?
Narayana Maharaja knows exactly what things are true, whether Srila Prabhupada was in fact poisoned or not, and if it is true, Narayana Maharaja knows exactly who poisoned Srila Prabhupada and why.
Why don’t Srila Prabhupada’s discipes who have gone over to Narayana Maharaja’s camp and who accept his claims that an uttama-adhikari is all seeing, ask him about that?
Just a suggestion.
I’d also like to suggest thumbscrews, but you’re devotees and besides, confessions and information gained under torture are unreliable, so no matter how much a demon would like to hear the squeals of anyone who has set idly by and watched such things when they could have tried to prevent them themselves, or could have told Rocana, or Puru, or anyone, even a Joe Blow off the street, even your most hardened criminal in prison, they would have stopped at least some of these things.
If Narayana Maharaja knows, then why isn’t he telling and why are his followers who believe that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned by the very man Narayana Maharaja was giving gopi-bhava to, why are they comfortable with Narayana Maharaja’s silence, or with being in the same company with others who Narayana Maharaja feels are qualified to hear about Sri Sri Radha Krsna’s love affairs? Aren’t you afraid that one day the floor’s going to open up beneath the company with whom you set, and that they are going to find themselves sliding down, down, down? And aren’t you concerned that you’re sitting right there with them now, and worried that a moment later, you may still be right there with them, up to your ears in stool?
Are they just so asleep that they have never followed what is only a logical progression? Have they not yet, with all of Narayana Maharaja’s sanga added to all of that of Srila Prabhupada’s, even become independently thoughtful men and women? Well, whenever they get there it’s ok, as long as they get there
Jiv Jago! Wake up sleepwalkers. Bring out your dead. Srila Prabhupada has given you the ability to be other than zombies in the service of zombie masters. He has taken the bars off the door and struck off the shakles from your hands and feet. He has thrown open the door for you and pointed the way. There is your freedom, take it. Do not live life as if you were already dead. Do not be a slave to fear or to lust, do not be a slave to anything. Be a loving servant of a loving servant of a loving servant, ten thousand times removed. Live free, receive the light of the benediction moon and shine it.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Hare Krsna
George A. Smith
(by George A. Smith, Feb 02 2009, California, USA)
“I’m not fighting for ISKCON, for the Rtviks, or for anyone. I’m fighting against something, and what I’m fighting against, I’m fighting against anywhere I see it. I’m fighting against the evils that men do, or justify in Krsna’s Names.”
Brilliant words said by an amazing warrior of truth!
I was confused enough with the abuse in iskcon as to approach NM 15 years back for diksa, I was not ready and he was looking for followers, the rest is history.
Since then I have been doing the same as your good self and trying to open my eyes and stay away from the personality cult of NM. After conducting my own research I conclude that everything you say is correct. Not only that but it also looks like the leader of his math at the time forbid him to give diksa within the math. He did support the molesters, which makes him in my book even worse than them. He is envious to this day and only wants to usurp Srila Prabhupadas’ (not ‘swamiji’ as he refers) movement.
I humbly ask the sincere advanced devotees a question now. How do reverse the the fact that I have taken brahman initiation from a snake?
This is not me wanting to return to the fold as I believe the zonal acharayas should actually be managers and are also snakes on the whole and should not be worshipped. Iskcon at present is just as blind by following false gurus as well.
Any ideas anyone?
To avoid offending my Godbrothers I hearby reject my initiated name of Acyuta Krsna Dasa as bogus.
It takes a lot of courage to leave a sanga and even more not to return to another, one may find oneself wandering alone with no other company than the Holy names of Krsna with no one there to sing His glories to except the wild beasts. They are sometimes more appreciative and wiser than human beings, but our ministry is for human beings. Find good company among human beings one’s who believe like you and I that Srila Prabhupada is not dead, he is alive there in his books. He sees you and he will help you, you need no third part between the two of you, one’s that market upon his name and reputation simply to exploit you. Srila Prabhupada is right there with you, along with the Lord in your heart. You can turn from them at every moment and continually but they will never turn from you and will always be there when you choose to turn to them. Find them in your heart, read Srila Prabhupadas books, follow the eegs, chant Hare Krsna and share yourself with others who like you are remarkable among human beings. Don’t try to go it alone, we need the association of devotees, and about having been fooled before…don’t sweat the small stuff, we all make mistakes, learn from them, about yourself and what else they may teach, and try not to repeat them.
The web site that the article came from is The Sampradaya Sun, it’s editor was my old TP back in the 70’s, he lets me post there.
Take care of yourself prabhu, thank’s for the complement. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and to your good self. Hari Bol.
George A. Smith
Thanks George. Even Srila Prabhupadas books have been changed now (see GBC resolution 311). Nothing can be trusted and the fact remains that true Sadhu Sanga is a requisite for spiritual growth. Just as we need this true sanga I still feel we, at the right time will need a living guru to make that last leap towards our eternal relationship with the Lord.
I personally feel that this is something we are almost forced into by Sri Krsna when the time is right for the individual (obviously a lot of progress has to be made before this time). When someone comes into our life that is fully liberated it would be a mistake to deride or ignore their existence.
I will always maintain that anyone who manoeuvres themselves into a position of worship is by definition NOT worshipable. This means the existing line of gaudiya ‘acharayas’ is bogus but it does not mean that liberated souls do not exist.
I don’t prescribe to any ‘camp’ I just question evil when I see it. As for approaching a spiritual master, I agree but we have made the concept of spiritual master at present one of a rubber stamp guru. A spiritual master is actually revealed by Sri Krsna, you don’t set out to look for one and choose from the plethora of voted in gurus – this is a mockery of parampara and so is NM looking at various tactics employed. With all of them it is proven fact that they do not meet the requirements in areas of, ‘vehemence of the tongue and control of anger’. A real guru is someone who is revealed to be divine through nature. Questioning these things is essential to our spiritual growth and a necessity to having to make an accurate or informed choice about our life.
One-to-one personal, devotional service to a real bonefide spiritual master and truly transcendent, liberated soul is essential to our progress as is real sadhu sanga. Never get carried away with hysteria and always question when looking between the lines.
Dear Ash
Hare Krsna, all glories to Srila Prabhupada
I still have the copy of Bhagavad Gita that Srila Prabhupada read from, after almost forty years every time I open it the sweet smell of sandal wood or some other incense, fresh as the morning fills the room.
Srila Prabhupada’s association is still available through his books, they are not dead things but living pages, if you want the association of a pure devotee look there.
Association is not a matter of physical proximity, the servant of the servant of the servant is often closer to his masters heart than the one sitting right next to him. There is an old saying that when the student is ready the teacher will appear, but that does not mean that the teacher is far away, the teacher is always near, always there, like two birds in a tree. Look in your heart and in your heart he will find you.
So there in the pages of Srila Prabhupada’s books and there in your heart, and if you need further, then there all around you.
You may think that you do not need them, that they lack in realization, that their hearts are not so pure, and all of this may be true, but if you are pure enough to see this, then see also that they need you. You may be week, but he is not weak, he is stronger than the hurricane. Hold tight to Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet, no matter how it stretch and pull you. Hold till your hands bleed white and your joints pop out from the strain. Make of yourself a bridge so that they may run over you to him, and then no one will be closer to your master than you. But if you must have someone else, someone living and breathing in the way that we think of it, no shame, still one day you will be stronger than the hurricane. Look for them, they are there, Srila Prabhupada promised them. Not his children, nor his children’s children, but in the third generation they would be born.
He did not say how many would survive. If you want some service that will purify you then do as you can to see that they do. Do not practice isolation, be a father, a brother a friend, a teacher, serve as needed. And if you can’t tell which is which are who is who when you look into their faces then treat all of them as if they are pure devotees for perhaps they are.
Sorry, I get preachy sometimes, but Krsna consciousness is a science, it’s not based upon belief. It’s supposed to work and it does, or it can rather, if you want it to.
It doesn’t have to take a thousand lifetimes, it doesn’t depend upon your karma, all it depends upon is what you really want, and as soon as you want Krsna, Krsna’s there for you. How many lifetimes you’ve neglected Krsna does not matter, He doesn’t hold a grudge.
If we do not want to hear then we will not, if we want to be cheated then we will be, but if we want Krsna consciousness there are no barriers that guru and God cannot overcome. Pray to Srila Prabhupada and to Sri Krsna for guidance and they will deliver it to you. Krsna is no miser.He may take away everything but He will give more than everything. Krsna can do.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Hare Krsna Ash
Dear George,
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I totally agree with all that you say in regards to Srila Prabhupada helping the conditioned souls through his books. He has the potency to be able to do that effortlessly. My issue is one of ‘guru-sadhu-sastra’; I was under the impression that these aspects are all a necessity.
Throughout the history of this sampradaya we have had a manifest acaraya, Srila Prabhupada being the last. I feel Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj could have been next but he was scuppered by the GBC same as Srila Prabhupada.
My point is that in the present climate it would be pointless for a great soul like this to reveal themselves, they would simply ‘be given a new body’ as the GBC call it. Who knows for the future – personally I am not in the guru market and won’t be until it is forced upon me. For now I will continue with your approach of getting sanga and giving service through Srila Prabhupadas books. If however, a liberated acaraya does reveal themselves in the future – I would aim for seva – afterall a bonafide acaraya would be 100% in-line with Srila Prabhupada.
Another question I have is around the conditioned living entity. Sometimes I feel the jiva needs the presence of the Guru as the Guru can guide the jiva according to individual needs. As the jiva is conditioned it will still have a hard time getting the required guidance from Srila Prabhupada via his books. This is not questioning Srila Prabhupadas books, rather questioning the jiva to use the knowledge properly. For example a neophyte would wrongly interpret Srila Prabhupadas views of woman and may wrongly become misogynist. The neophyte still needs advanced devotees to explain various things. If this is the case then it points to the need for most to have a bonafide guru – Srila Prabhupada as well as all of the previous acarayas have made this point – to get to Sri Krsna seva you need a bonafide Guru. Yes Srila Prabhupada was bonafide and he is here in his books but due to the maya of the jiva this is not enough. We need to render direct service to a bonafide representative and most need to take a whack of the danda every now and then.
Jai Sri Radhe
What I think of Narayana Maharaja. I never give him a thought because I had already received and understood Srila Prabhupada’s instructions to me. Thinking about Narayana Maharaja is for those who care about him. I do not care about him, no need to. If what NM says is true about Srila Prabhupada not having given me everything I need to go back to Godhead in this life then he is accusing Srila Prabhupada of lying and cheating me. If one accuses one’s spiritual master of lying and cheating then he must face forced criticism, I have already said my piece on this matter several times in the past. This topic is only designed to create doubt and unnecessary anxiety. Concocted irrelevant topics that have nothing to do with the real situation at hand simply indicate for the time being that the author has lost his focus. He does not show any direct sympathy for the conditioned souls because he figures that his ticket home has been verified. George A Smith is a good man. In my humble opinion he ought to get back to work formulating viable plans for one on one preaching as Srila Prabhupada instructed.
“There are many small groups of devotees, followers, international and national students as well as individual devotees who would like very much to serve the world by allowing them to participate in Lord Chaitanya’s Hare Krsna movement in it’s original form. However due to the ever expanding Hare Krsna movements isolationism a great deal of damage has been done. The world they were sworn to serve they have willingly scattered, banned and denied more people than the original post November 1977 false gurus ever did. At least those people had a chance to become Hare Krsna devotees. Being rightfully indignant about all of the devotees having been banned in the post November 1977 we should ask ourselves “Where are all the replacements”?
You know what to do so do it before it is too late.