Posted 28 March 2009, Hare Krishna, PAMHO, AGTSP. The simple answer is that the ceremony was not conducted on Srila Prabhupada’s behalf. I was trying to accept the GBC’s view on initiations, and I believe Bhakti Marga Swai (BMS) was also accepting that view. He was not acting as a priest but had taken the role of an actual initiating guru. I had assumed that Srila Prabhupada had authorized initiating gurus, based on the GBC’s assertions, but since I began really looking I have not been able to find any such authorization.
For a while BMS acted almost like a rtvik (he actually hosted a rtvik meeting immediately after my initiation ceremony on July 20, 2004), but eventually he took a more authoritative role and not in a good way. I’m sure you recall how I a conflict developed between myself and BTS’ disciples after he passed away, and the way he handled that situation (including telling me a lie to hide their conspiracy to remove me from my service, chastising me without wanting to hear my side of the story, using my brahmana-initiation training to coerce me to stop blogging about what was happening based only on the BTS’ disciples’ complaints without reading any of what I had written, and forgetting his promise to bring in an intermediary to help resolve the situation) …devastated me so much that I couldn’t chant at all for almost two years and suffered intense depression because of this. When I later came back, desperate for devotee association, he wouldn’t explain his actions and seemed to expect everything to just resume as if nothing had happened.
I respect that others have faith in their contemporary initiating gurus and don’t harass them about that; but I don’t personally see any authorization by Srila Prabhupada for his disciples to assume that role. Of course, that brings up the whole big debate; but I’m talking about my personal view here.
I know he was authorized by the GBC, but I don’t believe that is part of their job description since it looks to me that Srila Prabhupada intended the rtvik system he instituted to continue. I don’t know how being improperly initiated by a disciple of the acarya would automatically revert to being properly initiated by the acarya. That doesn’t make sense to me, and I would be surprised if BMS would think that either. I haven’t seen him in a while, but I realize that when I do it is something that I will have to discuss with him. I was a better devotee before this supposed initiation anyway, which really felt like nothing beyond my own hope, so I don’t see why resuming the attitude of someone aspiring for initiation would be harmful.
By the way, I didn’t just cut my kunthi mala and shorten it; it lost a few beads over time and gradually shrunk to the point where it sometimes felt like it was strangling me this past winter, so I fixed it to two big loops one night as an emergency measure so I could breathe. I realized after a short while that I felt better about it like that, so I shortened it to a comfortable twice around instead of lengthening it to three loops.
Hare Krishna.
Sincerely, your servant,
****** das
Dear **** prabhu,
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMFO
I don’t have the other email you submitted, but I’m remembering your saying that you (paraphrased) “didn’t consider yourself initiated,” and mentioned that you had begun wearing two strands of kanthi mala instead of three.
I’m not understanding why you are not considering yourself to be initiated. If Bhakti Marg Swami did the initiation ceremony, and if you are accepting the Ritvik conclusion, then why would you not accept that you were initiated? with Srila Prabhupada as your Guru?; (that the ceremony was done through Bhakti Marg Swami).
Either you see Bhakti Marg as your initiating guru or Srila Prabhupada as your initiating Guru, but the ceremony being done through Bhakti Marg S. (I don’t understand why you would be writing that you didn’t feel you had received initiation.)
Your servant,
Dasi, B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krsna
Dear Prabhu,
I had the pleasure of meeting Srila Prabhupada, and was in the bramacari ashram while he was still on the planet.
Never took initiation than, but 30 years later Bhaktimarga Swami gave me harinam initiation. Maharaj always glorifies Srila Prabhupada first, and has never tried to assume any role on an equal level with Prabhupada.
The importance of our movement is to follow the regulative principles,chant 16 rounds per day and serve guru and gauranga; nothing else.
Best to focus on your own contribution in service of Srila Prabhupada, that’s what Bhaktimarga Swami would like.
Your servant,
Murarigupta das
Hare Krsna, dear devotees!
Please accept my respectful obaisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Many devotees have found out about the cover-up of the real facts regarding Srila Prabhupada’s system of ritvik initiatins by the unelected GBC and the voted-in gurus. I don’t think that the initiation by BMS should be accepted as bonafide. BMS initiated on his own behalf. That’s not the same thing. The purpose and mentality at the sacrifice are essential. How could he perform a ritvik initiation and accept a disciple himself at the same time. It is an impossibility. Redundant.
Murarigupta Prabhu, with all due respect, ******dasa wrote of his negative experiences which made him leave the bad association of BMS and you are trying to tell him to please BMS by ignoring the issues. Who cares for BMS! He should first of all become submissive to Srila Prabhupada and stop to unauthorizedly initiate himself, if he wants to impress any devotee with his sincerety. BMS knows about the July 9th letter, the direct instruction of Srila Prabhupada. It is simple for the simple and difficult for the crooked. That’s the whole point here.
******dasa is simple and therefore he can see the truth.
It’s simple, one just need some honesty and immedieately everything starts becoming clear.
We want to be directly connected and Srila Prabhupada is inviting us to do so by hearing him. Why should we accept somebody who preaches Srimad Bhagavatam for his livelyhood. Everyone knows just how renounced these so-called swamis are. Really, Murarigupta Prabhu, your are sympathetic to a kali-chela, a criminal in the dress of a Vaishnava, he is guilty of many illicit activities. He must be rejected by every sincere devotee of Srila Prabhupada. He is part of the problem, he is not in anyway a self-realized soul.
He is an offender. Pasta.
Why worry about so many so-called swamis. Why care for glowworms if the sun is out?
Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
your aspiring servant,
Acarya dasa
Now listen. I have been around these people for well over 40 years. I have seen it all. The only reason I had anything to do with these people was the food and free room and board. I had no intentions of believing any of this crap. Come on, who makes mini statues and gives them names and actually believe’s that they are real. Give me a break. Humans are the stupidest race of animals, whom actually believe what they are told. we were lied to from birth, because our parents were lied to and so on, it never ends. I am not going to lie to any of you. If anyone ever asked me what do I believe? I would simpley tell them the truth, I don’t believe what humans have to say. we are caught up in a world of BRAIN, MIND, all we know is what is here, we cannot know anything else and this is fact. GOD is huge problem created my Humans in order to control the stupids from killing each other. Yet the very cause of Human difficulties is Religion, Reg-Li-Gin is a Greek term to Follow and nothing more. Spirituality is another headgame played by the Supreme Beings who are the Jews and Germans. This is where the term Supreme Being comes from, check out your History and read on the Uprising 1942-1945. We all have to wake up and see what this crazy planet is all about and why we are truly here. And now we get these ladder day morons who call themselves Preachers, Brahman’s, Swami’s Balommy’s and Baloney’s. The fact is we are all caught up in a world of liar’s and cheater’s. Haven’t noticed that for many years the message on third world countries and their hungers and deaths have never been resulved. I have seen this same message for 45 years now and it’s still on T.V. what dose that tell you, the goods and monies never really make it ti where it is truly needed. i have said plenty enough to wake up most readers, minus the stupids who would much rather be fooled and played. I am no ones fool. I know that I don’t belong here let alone being told what to do and where to go by some overly active idiot swami. i know what I am talking about. Wayne Boyd and Jeff both knew to get the hell out of Dodge while they still can. This and all other bullshit religion’s are all MAFIA. Don’t be lied to anymore, and give up the idea of going to Hell, we’re already there, we just have to find our way out at death. All the best to all who read this and I mean it.
BMS does not even represent the disciplic succession in my opinion. He drove dozens of our Godbrothers out of Iskcon Canada, in order to shore up his egomaniacal control. These are the facts. He is a political animal who acts like a sociopath, not caring about others, but strictly looking after usurper corporation interests; ie he wants total control of the money and the devotees, maniputing things to suit Himself, not Srila Prabhupada. No disciple of Prabhupada work to end the devotional careers of many dozens of devotees, many his seniors, as he has done repeatedly and to the full knowledge of everyone in authority in the temples here. Our temples are mostly controlled by Indian born devotees who have no qualms about abusimg the western devotees, who they take as cheap washouts who couldn’t make it in the business world, persons at their charity. Only those who BMS and his croneys favor and those who are under despotic control by the corrupt Canadian GBC and are outright afraid to say anything lest they be the next booted out, kiss his feet. Thus they also become implicated in his personal fiefdom as co-collaborators. Justice will be done in the long run; that is a lot of Vaisnava abuse to pay for in coming lifetimes.