Dear Maharaj,
Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
I am grievously embarrassed by this article. Even if you have to maintain these incredibly obnoxious attitudes toward women in order to maintain your tapas of celibacy, still it is shocking that you would speak in this manner publicly, and in a written and/or spoken forum!
Srila Prabhupada would NEVER have approved of such arrogance and verbal brutality; you could easily have said the very same thing in a kinder, more gentlemanly way. And thus not alienated an entire half of the human race–i.e. women.
I think you owe this lady, whoever she is, an apology.
I do not know who is your guru, but you are definitely NOT following the same Guru that I am following, i.e. Srila Prabhupada.
Because of such kind of malicious and brutal behavior, many women will have nothing to do with today’s Iskcon. Devotee women even steer their daughters elsewhere.
Do you truly believe this is what Srila Prabhupada wanted? No. He told such men to go to the forest if they suffered from such degree of agitation.
Srila Prabhupada wanted, and wants, a worldwide society of Krishna Consciousness, for spreading the Yuga Dharma of the congregational chanting of the Holy Names of the Lord. Not a handful of angry, agitated men who sit on high chairs and foulmouth everyone else in the world–thinking they are God’s gift to humanity. And splitting hairs over who can do this and who can do that.
It is Lord Chaitanya’s prediction that the Holy Names will be chanted everywhere, so it will happen for certain. But perhaps because of attitudes and behaviors like this, the chanting of the Holy Names is now more widely propagated outside the corrupted walls of what you believe to be Iskcon.
Fortunately, Srila Prabhupada’s Iskcon encompasses far, far more than what most people understand. And it will spread in spite of such modern day misunderstandings of what Srila Prabhupada taught.
Srila Prabhupada wanted, and wants, a worldwide society of Krishna Consciousness, for spreading the Yuga Dharma of the congregational chanting of the Holy Names of the Lord. Not a handful of angry, agitated men who sit on high chairs and foulmouth everyone else in the world–thinking they are God’s gift to humanity. And splitting hairs over who can do this and who can do that.
It is Lord Chaitanya’s prediction that the Holy Names will be chanted everywhere, so it will happen for certain. But perhaps because of attitudes and behaviors like this, the chanting of the Holy Names is now more widely propagated outside the corrupted walls of what you believe to be Iskcon.
Fortunately, Srila Prabhupada’s Iskcon encompasses far, far more than what most people understand. And it will spread in spite of such modern day misunderstandings of what Srila Prabhupada taught.
Srila Prabhupada was loving and protective of all his disciples, both male and female. He taught humility, not arrogance. He tried to teach us to respect one another, as Vaishnavas and Vaishnavis, irrespective of age, gender, or other material designations. For this reason, he told us to address one another as Prabhu, whether male or female. The attitudes you have expressed herein are the antithesis of what Srila Prabhupada taught.
Please forgive my harsh words; they are only intended to awaken you to the fact that Srila Prabhupada wants his dear and most important disciples, like his sanyasins, to behave in a spiritually appropriate manner. You have a huge responsibility. You are supposed to be representing the greatest Master of our times, Srila Prabhupada. If you act in ways that are contrary to his mood and teachings, you will be doing a great disservice to humanity. And you will eventually suffer spiritual disconnection as so many others have experienced.
I wish you well, and hope you will take my words to heart, and not become angry and vengeful.
Your servant and Godsister,
In Srila Prabhupada’s seva,
Govinda Dasi. ACBSP
pamho agtACBSP, of course I feel very sorry to hear about these problems still in iskcon since the time when SRILA PRABHUPADA was physically present on this planet. Prabhupada never tolerated any offense against Vaishnavis.
Letter to: Cyavana, Dallas, 29 July, 1975
Best thing to do in this case is to avoid this asat-sanga which is against SRILA PRABHUPADA’s teaching, we hope things get better by keeping serving our guru maharaj,
agtSP ys
haribol
Certainly this HH Bhakti Vidya Purna Swami seems indeed very ARROGANT in his answers which I find rubbish on the platform of mixed Rajo guna and Tamo guna.
From the scripture point of view, we understand that the women in general has always performed halping hands to their husband. Even the Rishi’s, Muni’s wives have done that in all ages.
There was, is and will never be any need of a woman alone to perform such Agni Yajna independently until or unless some women are very aggresive to do so and do such activities to satisfy their own whims only performing under the MIXED influence of three modes of material nature.
So what is the use of such a formality when you come to think about it ????????????
Srila Prabhupada of course gave huge, huge instructions to very neophyte disciples.
Regarding women he mentioned, among other things, that women as a class are less intelligent than men (BG), that women in general are very attached to family life, that women should not be trusted and women’s role in “inside the house”.
He also said that a female vaisnava is acting form the platform of the spirit soul where there is no question of “men” and “women”, that his female disciples were doing a great service and that the wife is the better part of the man in a marriage.
So SP made all kinds of, apparently contradictiorary, statements regarding the position of “women”. A realised vaisnava simply uses everything in the loving service of Sri Krsna, of course.
But ritvik tribal people are only conditioned souls. They are childish, worldly people and the fundament of their ideology is based on “being against”. So they cannot use SP sastra in any meaningful manner. They just do a lot of dry parroting. In that they are very expert.
What kind of kind, loving service would they be able to provide? Without buddhi and bhakti they just try to normalise illicit connections, gambling and performance of some materialistic idol worship.
Guru Parampara dasa says: What kind of kind, loving service would they be able to provide? Without buddhi and bhakti they just try to normalize illicit connections, gambling and performance of some materialistic idol worship.
If that’s true, then how do you explain the following?:
From <http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=32440#comment-13622>:
@Pratyatosa Dasa
“If that’s true, then how do you explain the following?”
I don’t sense any connection. All kinds of quantity and ignorant/passionate show anyone can put up. History is full of it, and not only history. There are so many “only Jesus Christ” people and crazy, envious Islamists doing the same thing.
Understanding Srila Prabhupada’s statement and its contents out of context with personal motive of an interpretations cause to appear contradictory to Mudhas of all different gradation.
We should all hear directly from Srila Prabhupada with rapt attention in order to understand what Srila Prabhupada says. Only then we can understand without any so called contradiction otherwise NOT.
Those who choose to disobey and disbelieve in the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada can not understand it let alone accepting and following Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions.
Hope it meets well.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Amar Puri says:
30. September 2013 at 11:47 pm
Understanding Srila Prabhupada’s statement and its contents out of context with personal motive of an interpretations cause to appear contradictory to Mudhas of all different gradation.
We should all hear directly from Srila Prabhupada with rapt attention in order to understand what Srila Prabhupada says. Only then we can understand without any so called contradiction otherwise NOT.
Mahesh: That is correct. Instead of worshiping voted-in Baboons manufactured by bogus GBC as “diksa gurus” best worship Srila Prabhupada as CURRENT Diksa Guru then you get KNOWLEDGE otherwise remain ignorant. This goat Guru parampara dasa( Raja Gopal das, the Original Gypsy) wants Srila Prabhupada to be contradictory because he has a GRUDGE against Srila Prabhupada. This envious demon can NOT accept Srila Prabhupada’s SUPERIOR UNIQUE position as CURRENT Diksa Guru because he is ANIMAL. Apparent contradictory statements are RESOLVED in the philosophy of simultaneous oneness and difference:
KB 82 Lord Krsna and Balarama Meet the Inhabitants of Vrndavana
The WHOLE philosophy is considered on the basis of inconceivable, simultaneous oneness and difference.
@Mahesh Raja
Ritviks are ignorant, envious tribal people. They are idol worshippers, anti-Srila Prabhupada people and anti guru parampara people.
Sri Krsna will remain a mystery for the ritviks. Envy and general stupidity certainly have got their specific effects.
Guru Parampara dasa says: All kinds of quantity and ignorant/passionate show anyone can put up.
Please name even one item on my list of “Ritvik firsts” that you do not accept as being factual.
These foolish ritviks being unhappy with Iskcon, the GBC and their 40 plus
fallen gurus, cooked up this silly ritvik doctrine with its post samadhi ritvik
initiation as an alternative and claim that they are Srila Prabhupada’s direct
initiated disciples . What a baloney! Just Bogus!
Further, to give some kind of authenticity to their bogus ritvik preaching,
they use Srila Prabhupada’s name and claim he wanted such nonsense
to be practiced after his departure.
Truth can only be understood by those who are truthful, who practice
truthfulness in their spiritual life. The nonsense replies given by some
of this ritviks attest to the fact that they are actually not the kind of people
who are truthful. Pretense plays a big role in their replies. They have very
little realization of Krsna consciousness.
Srila Prabhupada set up Iskcon and formed the GBC to manage the society
to preach Krsna Consciousness worldwide just as his guru wanted.
Ritvik people want to be independent of Guru and Sri Krsna. To accept a
guru means to follow the instructions of that guru. Whereas having a post
samadhi guru fits in nicely for their independent so called devotional lifestyle.
Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati Maharaj was the first person in gaudiya line of
disciplic succession to introduce preaching in an organized manner in the
form of a society with collective decision making process with elected senior
disciples. Srila Prabhupada followed the same as his guru.
Like Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati Maharaj, Srila Prabhupada did not appoint
any guru though he has mentioned that unless a guru is appointed by the
predecessor guru one cannot become a guru. And yet Srila Prabhupada
became a guru, an acarya.
In his own words: Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Rupanuga 4/28/74:
“In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he
left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more
years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for
preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. But
Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja,
and he and others who are already dead unnecessarily thought that there
must be one acarya.
If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time
to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he
passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya.
His idea was talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya….”
Did Srila Prabhupada’s spiritual master appointed ritvik representatives to
act on his behalf, claim himself to continue as the initiating spiritual master
after his departure, instructed his disciples to perform post samadhi ritvik
initiation and claim the initiated to be his disciples ?
What was Srila Prabhupada spiritual master’s final instruction before
his departure? In Srila Prabhupada’s own words:
“His idea was talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya.
His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body.
He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was
amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent
acarya would be automatically selected.”
So, on what basis are these ritviks saying Srila Prabhupada wanted post
samadhi ritvik initiation. The July 9th 1977 letter ? That instruction in the
letter was given to be followed while he was present. He was delegating
more of his initiating responsibilities to his senior disciples to perform
on his behalf while he was present because he was not able to do it himself
due to his health.
And in his own words:
Quote – “But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime
of your Spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his
absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation.
This is the law of disciplic succession. I want to see my disciples become
bonafide Spiritual Master and spread Krishna consciousness very widely,
that will make me and Krishna very happy. (Letter: December 2, 1975)”
He did not say that the instruction should be continued and that he will
continue to be the initiating guru after his departure. Srila Prabhpada
ended the July 9th letter by instructing the appointed representatives
to send the initiated names to him to be included in his initiated disciples’s
book. That is the end of it.
It is the ritviks who are saying different. “Henceforward” is the most abused
word by the ritviks. Cut and paste with only partial of the total instructions
given by Srila Prabhupada is how they manipulate and preach their ritvik
ideology. They falsely gives the impression that Srila Prabhupada wanted post
samadhi ritvik initiation with him as the initiating guru after his departure.
Seriously, the ritviks are making a mockery of Guru, Sadhu and Sastra.
HARE KRSNA
Gypsy, Guru Parampara dasa, have you ever ever ever written and contributed any constructive criticism other than nonsense,senseless and baseless remarks such as this:
“Guru Parampara dasa says:
1. October 2013 at 9:14 am
@Mahesh Raja
Ritviks are ignorant, envious tribal people. They are idol worshippers, anti-Srila Prabhupada people and anti guru parampara people.
Sri Krsna will remain a mystery for the ritviks. Envy and general stupidity certainly have got their specific effects.”
Have you not been challenged many times to explain your position with regard to the understanding of the Ritvik system of Initiation Srila Prabhupada has used as per the Sastra ???
Have you not understood at all so far what Srila Prabhupada Instructions are all about ???
How long shall you continue showing your IGNORANT in this forum as to IGNORING the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada without expressing your due concern and care you need to rectify it in order to remove your IGNORANCE ???
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Wow ……… Guess what? Who is back again with the same Questions previously answered many many many times ? It is SG, hahaha ….. amazing. Not really. Why ? Because, SG and Gypsy and co have their own convictions which makes them very hard to believe and understand the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada . It is that simple. So, what any body can do under these circumstances?
Allow me please to present what type and level of understanding SG has when he quotes Srila Prabhupada:
” What was Srila Prabhupada spiritual master’s final instruction before
his departure? In Srila Prabhupada’s own words:
“His idea was talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya.
His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body.
He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was
amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent
acarya would be automatically selected.”
MY Questions to SG:
Was Srila Prabhupada amongst the members of the GBC in the example quoted above ?
Did Srila Prabhupada replace His Guru Maharaja Srila BSSGT in His Spiritual Organization ?
How Srila Prabhupada became Self Effulgent Acarya ?
Did Srila Prabhupada not give the same Instructions of His Guru Maharaja Srila BSSGT for ALL of His Disciples to follow ?
It becomes imperative that you, SG, give the answers to all of the above Questions in order for you to understand the Quote of Srila Prabhupada. Otherwise, there is no hope for you and your associates ever to understand it what you quote.
Hari BOL. OM TAT SAT.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
The ritvik tribal people can’t even follow the four regulative principles. Yet they accuse and accuse and … accuse all Iskcon devotees, also the elevated and liberated ones. Ritviks themselves, they just admit to be fallen …
ONLY! Srila Prabhupada they shout. Exactly as the fake Christians. Truly, these people are agents of craziness. They have got completely nothing to do with spiritual life and therfore also nothing with proper worship of Srila Prabhupada.
From Srimad Bhagavatam 3.1.14 Purport, we read the following ;
“It is said that giving good counsel to a foolish person causes the fool to become angry, just as feeding milk to a snake only increases its venomous poison.”
I truly hope that this should not be the case with any of US involved in this discussion.
Hari BOL.
Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada Ki Jaya.
Amar Puri says:
1. October 2013 at 8:45 pm
” It becomes imperative that you, SG, give the answers to all of the
above Questions in order for you to understand the Quote of Srila Prabhupada.
Otherwise, there is no hope for you and your associates ever to understand it
what you quote.”
SG — Honestly, you are simply a childish ritvik clown. If you wish to comment
on my posting, criticize whatever, please go ahead. Just not interested in replying
to your usual nonsense questions. It just a waste of time. Most times you make
no sense and usually make a fool of yourself.
HARE KRSNA
@Guruparampara Dasa: “The ritvik tribal people can’t even follow the four regulative principles”
Yet another rascal who keeps on cementing that if we get a cheating guru it must be our karma. Is this just like when the gurukulis were raped it was just their karma? Guruparampara godasa: Touche!
When running out of sastric evidence to support fallen gurus GPD using his bag of tricks to fool clueless readers that he has substantive argument: ritviks don’t follow 4regs, don’t take regular shower, won’t rise at 3.30 am, etc., etc. Such libel and slander, bottomless hatred usually fall right back on you “Guruparampara Dasa” – be on the watch, strange things can happen in your life when committing Vaishnava aparadha!
Are we supposed to be happy that now I have given ten years of my life to my guru, he has taken all my money and time and service and ran off with my godsister and oh well this is just my karma to have a cheating guru? What will my next guru be like? Is this what the GBC is preaching nowadays to the granddisciples of Srila Prabhupada, “You didn’t get Prabhupada so now it is just your karma that you will get a cheating guru but we did, so we will all go back to Godhead but you won’t no matter what you do?”.
Oh they say to be sure that Krsna took our bhakti. But without a bonafide guru how did Krishna do that? Do we no longer need a bona fide guru? In that case we must not have any karma since we are more advanced than our gurus. What kind of philosophy is this?
Yet another crackbrained idea that new bhaktas should be already fully liberated mahatmas in order to check that their guru is also liberated and 100% qualified? So these present ISKCONites are just a bunch of confused mental speculators unable to realize what is a bona fide guru.
@Rukmini Ramana devi dasi
Is there something wrong with your brain? I will just cite one of the ritvik tribal people.
“Ritviks may not be very saintly”, here on this site you can look it up for yourselves. Besides, I know a few ritviks personally and they certainly are not able to stick to the regulative principles. They’re oke with their illicit connections and gambling since hey … ONLY! Srila Prabhupada. Exactly like the fake Christians. No buddhi, no bhakti but certainly no lack of fanatism.
Further, my guru maharaja never had whatever fall down, never asked me for money and always gave me Sri Krsna.
You ritviks are in the sick habit of blaspheming all Iskcon guru’s, factually all Iskcon devotees, so who is commiting vaisnava aparadha? And on a daily basis, actually as fundament of your sick “ideology”.
“Guruparampara Dasa” (paraphrased):
Please stop wasting our time. None of us are foolish enough to take you seriously!
Your servant
Bhakta Carl
@Bhakta Carl
I understand you have to resort to some weird fantasy world. That is what ritviks do all the time so it fits nicely in your daily business.
btw, How do mean you “cowardly”? I have used my spiritual name on this site in many comments.
SG: So, on what basis are these ritviks saying Srila Prabhupada wanted post
samadhi ritvik initiation. The July 9th 1977 letter ? That instruction in the
letter was given to be followed while he was present. He was delegating
more of his initiating responsibilities to his senior disciples to perform
on his behalf while he was present because he was not able to do it himself
due to his health.
Mahesh: SG you just want to remain ignorant or what? Whilst CONDITIONED soul Representative of Srila Prabhupada can give FORMALITY of 1st and 2nd initiations ON BEHALF OF SRILA PRABHUPADA it is the MAHA-BHAGAVATA Srila Prabhupada who is EMPOWERED TO TRANSFER KRSNA INTO ANOTHERS HEART. THAT is DIKSA.
SB 10.2.18 P Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was TRANSFERRED to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. UNLESS ONE IS INITIATED BY THE RIGHT PERSON, WHO ALWAYS CARRIES WITHIN HIS HEART THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, ONE CANNOT ACQUIRE THE POWER TO CARRY THE SUPREME GODHEAD WITHIN THE CORE OF ONE’S OWN HEART.
SG: And in his own words:
Quote — “But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime
of your Spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his
absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation.
This is the law of disciplic succession. I want to see my disciples become
bonafide Spiritual Master and spread Krishna consciousness very widely,
that will make me and Krishna very happy. (Letter: December 2, 1975)”
Mahesh: The words WITHOUT ANY LIMITATION applies to MAHA-BHAGAVATA. Srila Prabhupada would be very happy if they ACTUALLY came up ACQUIRE THIS STAGE.
These guys ARE NOT even on the stage of ORDINARY MORAL CONDUCT OF KARMI. Ordinary karmi feels remorse if he does something wrong. These guys are a BUNCH OF THUGS who have given poison to Srila Prabhupada, they are changing his books, taken over the temples, duped devotees.
In simply terms: they are MONEY SCREWING CROOKS AFTER SLAVERY OF INNOCENTS.
WITHOUT ANY LIMITATION means Srila Prabhupada’s BOOKS will be here generation after generation after generation CREATING HIS DISCIPLES. Disciples MEANS DISCIPLINE. Those who take DISCIPLINE FROM THE BOOKS, TAPES, CD’S OF SRILA PRABHUPADA ARE FACTUALLY SRILA PRABHUPADA’S DISCIPLES.
ALL your points are DEFEATED IN DETAIL. You best at least READ the following articles to get a GRASP of the subject of Ritvik:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WHEN I order
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2603.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Become Guru by Order, That’s All
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials5990.htm
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What We Have Heard from the Spiritual Master, That is Living
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/08-10/editorials6409.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2265.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brief History of Guru Hoax in ISKCON
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2302.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-07/editorials2223.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ritvik – **Representative**
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/10-07/editorials2084.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ritvik System Is Bonafide
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-09/editorials4085.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Formalities
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-08/editorials3324.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brahmana (Kanistha)
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-09/editorials4258.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The rescuer must be liberated
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2330.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tattva-darsinah
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/01-08/editorials2433.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He is not a liberated person
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-08/editorials2491.htm
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The Case for Blind Uttama Adhikaris
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/06-10/editorials6158.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jesus Christ Predicts Appearance of Srila Prabhupada
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/07-10/editorials6258.htm
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Srila Prabhupada in Absentia BY: KURMA DASA (NOT THE CHEF)
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials5991.htm
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Disciplic Succession
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2628.htm
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Satyam – Truthfulness
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-10/editorials6526.htm
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Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2673.htm
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We Don’t Allow Any Literature Not Given by Liberated Soul
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-08/editorials2819.htm
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Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2260.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Analysis of Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Rupanuga
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2250.htm
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Was Sridhara Maharaja a bonafide guru?
http://www.iskcontimes.com/was-sridhara-maharaja-bona-fide-guru
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Sridhara Maharaja – EXPOSED
http://iskcontimes.com/sridhara-maharaja-exposed
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Conditioned soul Sridhara Maharaja Vs Srila Prabhupada the Mahabhagavata
http://iskcontimes.com/conditioned-soul-sridhara-maharaja-vs-srila-prabhupada-mahabhagavata
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Exposing Gaudiya Math Twister: Sankarshana dasa (Bhakta Suria)
http://iskcontimes.com/exposing-gaudiya-math-twister
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Bhakta Raj Defeats Ajamila
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-10/editorials6568.htm
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Bhakti Vikasa Interpolation Vs the Truth
http://www.iskcontimes.com/bhakti%20vikasa-interpolation-vs-the-truth
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Bhakti Vikasa is a SAHAJIYA
http://www.iskcontimes.com/bhakti-vikasa-is-a-SAHAJIYA
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Reply to Nimai Pandit Prabhu and Rocana das
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=33002#comment-16956
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CON Trick from the Bogus GBC
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=34797#more-34797
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Srila Prabhupada poisoned:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/fotos/Prabhupada998.pdf
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Poison Issue tape Tamal Krishna’s voice is heard to say “PUT THE POISON IN THE MILK”
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/fotos/Prabhupada998.pdf
The following site has whispers of the poison givers:
To hear the whole CD of the Nov 10 1977 Conversations from beginning to end, please click here or http://www.mediafire.com/?ppvh77orok1r7vh
And for Individual highlighted louder version of the whole CD , please go to http://www.culturedbooks.com/audio/audio-address.html
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Hearing: The Real Tradition ( by Vidura Prabhu)
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=37198
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“We request you to chant HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE, and your life will be sublime.”
It looks like SG did ignore my important remarks. From Srimad Bhagavatam 3.1.14 Purport, we read the following:
“It is said that giving good counsel to a foolish person causes the fool to become angry, just as feeding milk to a snake only increases its venomous poison.”
That is why SG writes such FOOLISH comments himself in reply to my QUESTIONS under discussion which reads ;
“SG – If you wish to comment on my posting, criticize whatever, please go ahead. Just not interested in replying to your usual nonsense questions. It just a waste of time. Most times you make
no sense and usually make a fool of yourself.”
This reply from SG truly shows that he is ANGRY as per the quote from Srimad Bhagavatam because he has no answer to the Questions which I put it up in reply to Srila Prabhupada’s quotes which he used it in order to defend his concocted interpretation of it to mislead and cheat the people.
Above ALL to condemn US the followers of the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada, SG, Raja Gopala aka Guru Parama dasa, the Gypsy boy and co continue their nonsense propaganda to mislead and cheat people by their concocted interpretations of the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada.
That is why I ask the Questions to these type people to which they have no answer. Because the Truth always prevails and thus, they have no answer to the Truth.
Hope it meets satisfactory.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
The copy/paste kids are back in town. No buddhi, no bhakti but a lot of copying and pasting. Tragical, isn’t it?
Yes, it sure is …
Guru Parampara dasa again lies when he writes ; ” btw, How do mean you “cowardly”? I have used my spiritual name on this site in many comments.”
NOW reveal and confirm your spiritual name which one is bogus ;
i. Guru Parampara dasa
ii Raja Gopala dasa
iii. The Original Gypsy
Are you the recipient of these three names by three different deviant bogus gurus ?
Is there someone out there?
Bhakta Carl says: Guru Parampara dasa says (paraphrased): “The only thing that I’m capable of doing is to try to puff myself up by criticizing ritviks while hiding behind a cowardly cloak of anonymity.”
Very true. Unless “Guru Parampara dasa” tells us when, where, and from whom he got his spiritual name, he is simply trying to puff himself up by criticizing others while hiding behind a cowardly cloak of anonymity! None of us are foolish enough to take him seriously!
Not very true. Since ritviks love to insult and blaspheme it’s most correct I won’t tell you my guru maharaja’s name. Better for me, certainly better for you. Sri Krsna doesn’t like those who blaspheme.
In terms of content you ritviks are losing big time all the time. Not strange since you are just the “against” people. Besides idol worshippers.
Guru Parampara dasa cries out loud by shouting:
“Guru Parampara dasa says:
3. October 2013 at 7:40 am
Is there someone out there?”
He responses to my questions when challenged about his identity as it seems but conceals the name of his guru’s identity who gave him that name by saying, ” Not very true. Since ritviks love to insult and blaspheme it’s most correct I won’t tell you my guru maharaja’s name. Better for me, certainly better for you. Sri Krsna doesn’t like those who blaspheme.”
From the above, we the followers of the instructions of Srila Prabhupada ( Ritviks as he addresses us) know it now from his writing that Guru Parampara dasa receives his spiritual name from his unauthorized guru in the Iskcon knowing very well that that person ( his guru) is BOGUS one hundred percent as per the instructions of Srila Prabhupada who has not authorized any of his disciples to accept one’s own disciples in the Iskcon. That is why Guruparampara dasa won’t tell us his guru maharaja’s name because his guru is UNAUTHORIZED as he knows it but he refuses to accept and admit it.
Is that NOT CORRECT, Guru Parampara dasa??????
Answer this question if you truly love your guru maharaja in order to protect his honor. This is a challenge to you as to how much faith you have in your guru maharaja??????
Hope you show some respect to your spiritual name and to your guru by answering the question.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Guru Parampara das writes:
“Sri Krsna doesn’t like those who blaspheme”.
But on another post he writes: ”
@Puranjana dasa
“You’re just a resentful old man.”
Hypocrisy?
Dear Guru Parampara das,
what a breath of fresh air it is to hear we have an Iskcon representative who is straightforward. Recently there was this guy called Raja Gopal on this forum making all kinds of unverifiable statements like; “Iskcon has liberated acaryas”. The funny/sad thing was when I asked him to name just one he suddenly lost his tongue, his courage, and then ran away! Geeze, what a piece of work he was . Anyway I hear you say you are straightforward so hopefully this will prove to be true.
On the 22nd Sept you wrote; “Srila Prabhupada of course also never received such an instruction from his guru maharaja.”
Now how could you possibly know what Srila Prabhupada and his guru maharaja did, or didn’t, discuss while they were in each others company? Could you please provide us with some proof to back this accusation?
I’m not asking for a long lecture that side-steps this question and I would prefer if you didn’t insult me as you did Purunjana. I also don’t need to know the name of your guru(s), etc, etc. What I would like is a STRAIGHTFORWARD answer to my question.
You have made a very serious allegation about Srila Prabhupada’s relationship with his guru maharaja and his spiritual credentials in regards to his taking disciples. Even in a mundane courtroom hearsay of this sort would not be permissible. Proof please?
JFS
@JFS
There is no account whatsoever SP received instruction from his guru maharaja “become diksa guru, become acarya”. Therefore it is safe to conclude is has not been there, otherwise SP would have mentioned it. He never ever did. When you understand spiritual life you also wouldn’t come to such a childish conclusion. btw Why do you call this an “accusation” and “very serious allegation”? Can you only think from the very formal, kanishta adhikari platform?
Of course he didn’t get this order from BS, he only got it from his disciples. A liberated person can do as he likes and being a diksa guru is a voluntary act unless you act only on the strength of formal discpline as an amara ajnaya guru. SP in this regard said to his disciples: “get qualified”.
Srila Prabhupada many times preached on the madyama adhikari platform. Ritviks take that platfrom as the absolute platform, even regardless of time/place/circumstance. And with that they like to be wannabe dictators.
What is most important is that the individual chooses his authority. Ritviks just like to be authority very much. It’s not that they are authority. These are two different things.
To accept authority is a voluntary act. This simple fact ritviks simply don’t understand. On this forum I notice this funny phenomenon very much. Ritviks very childishly like to order and demand as if they rule the world.
Sri Visnu rules the world, of course. Only a pure vaisnava is more powerful than Visnu. Indeed, that is not ONLY!!! SP.
@JFS
“Guru Parampara das writes:
“Sri Krsna doesn’t like those who blaspheme”.
But on another post he writes: ”
@Puranjana dasa
“You’re just a resentful old man.”
Hypocrisy?”
There is no hypocrisy since PD only business is to blaspheme ALL Iskcon devotees. The guy seems very much traumatised for some reason or another. He just lives on stereotypes.
Srila Prabhupada says you cannot be guru unless you get the order, of course pure devotees are also “getting dictation from Krishna.” We cannot see this dictation on television, so it does not exist? Are these people smoking too much happy weed? ys pd
Puranjana dasa says: Srila Prabhupada says you cannot be guru unless you get the order, of course pure devotees are also “getting dictation from Krishna.” We cannot see this dictation on television, so it does not exist? Are these people smoking too much happy weed?
Exactly. And if an ISKCON gurus says, “Prabhupada appeared to me in a dream and told me to start initiating disciples,” then maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt. However, he should do it outside of ISKCON. He should start his own institution like Srila Prabhupada did. Prabhupada created ISKCON for his direct disciples/followers, not for others.
The GBC’s concocted multiple guru system:
1. …goes against the July 9th letter,
2. …creates factionalization, which Srila Prabhupada condemned.
3. …goes against common sense!
Guru Parampara say; “Therefore it is safe to conclude is has not been there, otherwise SP would have mentioned it.”
Well,… what a load of rubbish! This ‘conclusion’ makes no sense. Srila Prabhupada was never beholden to us to reveal everything within his heart. Is that the best you can come up with Guru Paramapara?
Maybe the first step in understanding spiritual life would be to stop speculating on what the founder acarya did and didn’t discuss with his guru?
You have FAILED to give any proof to back your claim. All you have offered is your ‘opinion’. Now with all due respect the last time I checked that wasn’t the way to prove a spiritual point.
Why on earth should I accept your ‘opinion’ as absolute truth on such an important point?
Something tells I have more chance of Raja Gopal giving me the names of the liberated acaryas as Guru Pramapara producing any actual proof to back his statement.
Sad, just sad 🙁
@”The guy seems very much traumatised for some reason or another. He just lives on stereotypes.”
GPD’s disease – he lost touch with reality. Having produced 45 failing “as good as God acarya’s” what spoiled the lives of thousands of devotees and destroyed faith of people all over US / Europe. And still demanding respectability, dandavat and honor? A whole army of failing gurus and still taking the same line? Such obstinate behavor is met with complete incomprehension even by people in general.
People in the spotlight have to accept criticism when producing chaos, this is common sense. You should learn how to deal with legitimate criticism. When karmi governments fail they install interim government, caretaker government in order to restore people’s confidence. This actually is ritvik. A sense of decency. Only ruffians and thugs don’t have one ounce of decency when having produced a trail of destruction.
First of all, ISKCON management decided to offshore, to break away, to run away from their mismanagement in NA / Europe and restart in the East. They kept the temples as kind of ghost towns and sent temple congregations to Gaudiya-matha splinter groups. Now they somehow observe growth in Siberia, Asia, Africa and figure their previous chaos in Europe and USA is automatically solved. No apology, no confession having made mistakes, no inviting back lost sheep.
This is rather impudence, presumptuousness. Readers surely also feel confirmed that there is no leadership skills, managerial ability whatsoever. If this is ISKCON GBC mentality there is only one answer: to introduce a motion of no confidence. Any suggestion?
ys
Bhakta Carl
@JFS
I don’t have any problem in admitting that my analysis is only a reasonable assumption since SP simply never stated that his guru maharaja told him “become diksa guru, become acarya”. Never.
btw Please claim victory. That’s just further evidence of your madness. Your idol SP didn’t mind admitting a mistake or a not exactly right conclusion. Indeed, SP was not a fanatical, crazy person.
So the simple fact remains that SP never made any statement that his guru maharaja told him: “become diksa guru, become acarya” as ritviks falsely claim.
Indeed ritviks are very sad, for many reasons but fundamentally because of envy. And worshipping SP as an idol will not bring you anything but just more and more illusions.
Ritviks, no buddhi, no bhakti, no Krsna consciouness. But indeed, a lot of “being against”. Exactly that is the problem of conditioned souls. If he/she is able to recognise his mental disease, of course.
@Bhakta Carl
I don’t demand anything and indeed it’s tragical that many guru’s have become manifest as only amara ajnaya guru’s not being able to purify themselves further but instead even fall from the formal platform.
My enthousiasm for attacking ritviks is that ritviks in utter madness falsly claim that all Iskcon guru’s and devotees are wrong/bad/corrupt. This apart from the fact that ritviks are no authority whatsoever with their weird dictatorial “only SP!!!” fantasy.
Perhaps somewhere in the future Iskcon’s first hot war will be between Iskcon and the ritviks, who knows? That would be funny.
Happy are the ksatryas for whom fighting comes unsought for.
Hahaha ….. Guru Parampara dasa writes with his barking loud voice like a mad dog when he says ;
” My enthousiasm for attacking ritviks is that ritviks in utter madness falsly claim that all Iskcon guru’s and devotees are wrong/bad/corrupt. This apart from the fact that ritviks are no authority whatsoever with their weird dictatorial “only SP!!!” fantasy.”
GPD. answer the following questions before you start barking like a mad dog by repeating same USELESS – BASELESS – NONSENSE out of context writing ;
i. Did Srila Prabhupada EVER authorize His Disciples to accept ones’ own disciples in His Iskcon during His presence or absence ?
ii. Do you accept Srila Prabhupada Instructions when He says that He is the Sole Authority and the Diksha – Siksha Guru in His Iskcon ?
iii. Did your bona fide guru who gave you diksha i.e. spiritual name as Guru Parampara dasa have the AUTHORIZATION from the founder Acaraya of Iskcon ?
If you can not answer to the questions, then, you have no qualification at all to write as such ; ” Happy are the ksatryas for whom fighting comes unsought for. ”
So, it shows and proves that you are simply barking like a mad dog.
Hare Krishna Guru Parampara, thank you for admitting that your analysis of His Divine Grace is only an assumption. I guess it’s expected that when posting your opinions on a public forum others may question the authenticity of such claims.
You have a beef with the Ritviks, I get that.
But my challenge was based on what you wrote about our Founder Acarya, Srila Prabhupada here on this public forum.
Srila Prabhupada is not my idol, but he is the Founder Acarya of Iskcon and therefore the person who saved us all, (including your guru). For that reason he is, in my opinion, worthy of my worship. If that makes me mad or childish then so be it.
Btw, not everyone that challenges your opinion is a Ritvik.
Hare Krishna Guru Parampara,
previously I challenged Raja Gopla’s ‘opinion’ that there were liberated acaryas in Iskcon exactly because it was just that, an opinion. Until he produces some actual proof to back this claim it’s really just something he made up, like saying some of the second generation fly on magic carpets or that yesterday I found a horses egg, (oh, but I can’t show it to you though).
Opinion in spiritual life is a dangerous thing. It was everyone’s opinion that Prabhuvisnu was a pure devotee, naistaki brahmacari, qualified guru, bonafide sannyasi and someone creditable to sit on the gbc and influence our temples,… a 100% trustworthy man. Based on this estimation he was able to exploit the Vaisnavas and take years of service and hundreds and thousands of dollars of Prabhupada’s money out of our Iskcon zone before abandoning his disciples to retire to a warm climate with his wealth and woman. So much for opinion!
I think what the Ritviks are trying to say is in the current system guru’s are created by a two third ‘opinion vote’ but that this was never authorized by Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada never appointed any of his disciples as gurus and this is a fact. So in that sense the Ritviks are correct in saying so. It’s not childish or madness, it’s just the truth.
I’m open to hear what yourself or others may present to challenge this fact, but if all you can offer is opinion and name-calling then how will anyone take our Iskcon seriously?
Surely if it’s that clear that the Ritvik people are wrong then the facts alone would speak for themselves? Unverifiable opinion and silly statements like “we have liberated acaryas in Iskcon” simply raises suspicion that the Iskcon devotees are not as convinced of their own position as they make out and are forced to resort to desperate measures.
JFS
@JFS
Of course SP is worthy of your worship, it’s wonderful to worship such a transcendental hero.
Naturally I am aware SP also saved my guru maharaja and naturally I am aware Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati saved SP. I understand the power of the guru parampara. What according to you is not correct what I have written about SP on this forum?
Hare Krishna Guru Parampara.
In answer to your question I have included a few statements you recently made. These are just from this forum and not others on this site, although I suspect there is more of the same elsewhere.
“But ritvik tribal people are only conditioned souls.”
“The ritvik tribal people can’t even follow the four regulative principles.”
“The guy seems very much traumatised for some reason or another.”
“That’s just further evidence of your madness.
In the course of debate you throw about many opinions and speculations but factually you don’t know the hearts of others, (if they are conditioned souls, breaking regs, traumatised, or mad, etc) that would make you God, All Knowing.
So I don’t understand why you need to fabricate evidence if the Ritvik camp is so obviously wrong. It feels like a cheap trick and makes me wonder if you yourself doubt your own position?
Anyway that’s just how I see it, and since you asked I have shared that.
JFS.
@JFS
How do you know what others actually know or not know? You don’t since “knowing” is a strict individual state of consciouness. You end up mostly with a game of words when you start arguing about it. This is what philosophically inclined materialists love to do for some mind gratification (haha, I am smarter than the other person …)
How do you eg know for a fact that SP was a liberated person? Why is that not “an opinion”?
Actually it’s much more important that you become liberated yourself because until liberation has arrived you just have to accept the authority of the guru and execute his instructions.
Lord Visnu brings liberation according to the BG. But that’s also just an opnion in your analysis? And if not, why not since there is no empirical proof to verify the statement.
Further, you write,
“I think what the Ritviks are trying to say is in the current system guru’s are created by a two third ‘opinion vote’ but that this was never authorized by Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada never appointed any of his disciples as gurus and this is a fact. So in that sense the Ritviks are correct in saying so. It’s not childish or madness, it’s just the truth.”
How do you know for a fact that Srila prabhupada never appointed guru’s? I certainly believe he indeed didn’t, btw. But how do you know for a fact? Were you there all the time with SP when he communicated with his disciples?
About the GBC voting system. I checked with GBC how they accept a guru to function within Iskcon. It is not by a two third vote it was explained to me. They don’t appoint guru’s. They accept a guru to function within Iskcon in that role by a two third vote. So they don’t opinion whether a person is a guru or not. People with less thinking capacity, like ritviks, apparently don’t understand the difference. But apparently you also don’t understand. You’re just giving your opinion in this context while claiming facts. For someone who tries to correct others about what are opinions and what are facts this perhaps is not very handy. I can only say that I take the explanation I got to be correct. I have no reason to doubt it.
About becoming a guru SP has stated “you qualify”. And he stated more than once that he wanted every disciple to become guru. Qualified guru’s, of course … And of course I know about the tragical behaviour of a big number of Iskcon’s “previous guru’s”. This is perfectly understandable imo. Also given Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s info on this topic.
Ritviks have no devotional service since they thrive on stereotypes and blind accusing. Iskcon bad, GBC bad, all Iskcon devotees bad/wrong/corrupt. Ritviks are just childish wannabe dictators without any connection to reality. imo Since it is my clear observation.
@JFS: “So I don’t understand why you need to fabricate evidence if the Ritvik camp is so obviously wrong.”
Dear JFS, this is right!
GPD simply runs a strategy of psychological attack. There are no valid points in his arguments, it’s all about to disseminate conflict, discord and dissension for clueless readers. New readers understand only one thing, there is irreconcilable differences, trouble.
So GPD’s real intention is to make this forum look like a place of mud-wrestling. Nothing more. He won’t present any quotes by Prabhupada, sastra or previous acarya. It is all to simply alienate new readers and make people to turn away.
@Bhakta Carl
Turn them away from ritviks? Of course, ritviks are atheïsts. But gladly promote Sri Krsna. And for that people in general need a guru in the beginning stages of their spiritual life. Or Sri Krsna directly. (BG 3.9)
@JFS
You give a very strange answer in 9.26 on my 7.00 question, “What according to you is not correct what I have written about SP on this forum?”
Your answer just consists of certain quotes I made about ritviks …
Is it a normal thing for you that one poses a question and then you give a totally unrelated answer?
The GBC guru system, 2/3 show of hands vote, actually does not get them off the hook. When they re-instated Bhavananda, because of reports he was having homosex with taxi drivers in the holy dham etc., they all voted to keep him in the post of Vishnupada. Only Satsvarupa “abstained” from voting. That means the vote to worship sex with taxi drivers was practically unanimous. Why does Guru Parampara say that this proves the GBC is bona fide, that only one member abstained? SDG only abstained, he did not protest, he just said he’d rather not say one way or the other. So really, it was unanimous, if you think about it. So why does Guru Prampara want us to worship homosex in the holy dham as our acharyas, and why does he never answer this point? ys pd
Guru Parampara dasa says: Ritviks have no devotional service…
This is an insult to the sincere Ritviks who are working very hard to create and maintain this very website that GPD is using every day to spout his offensive nonsense. Are they not doing devotional service? IMHO, they are doing amazing service for Lord Sri Krishna and Srila Prabhupada. “The truth shall make you free.”
If GPD is committing so many offenses in the name of his nameless so-called guru, then his “guru” is in big trouble!
Yes too true Carl.
Just see how GPD trys to turn it around on me, (eewh that little trickster!) and note how throughout his long-winded reply he FAILS to touch on any of HIS claims that I quote. It’s called ‘begging the question’ and is considered a laughable, outdated approach even in mundane political circles. This guy will talk for a million years but can never produce any proof to back his big false claims. And when challenged he runs away and hides in the forest of words until the danger blows over. He tried to convince us all how straightforward he was, but actually he’s just like that Raja Gopal guy who tried, (and failed) to bluff us with his nonsense, “there’s liberated acaryas in Iskcon”. The onus of proof always lays with the person who makes the claim, and tricks and straw men arguments are the actions of cowards who get caught out by their own nonsense.
I experienced many born again Christians while on book distribution over the years who have this same mind-set and so this GPD is not as clever as he thinks,… old, worn out tricks, boring!
But personally I think it’s good that he is allowed to run off at the mouth here as it gives the readers a sample of what Iskcon may now have become.
JFS.
Actually Srila Prabhupada was very aware of this ‘begging the question’ game and often you can hear on his talks when someone tries to ‘move on’ and away from what they find awkward with more talking Prabhupada says “No, first you understand this point” and won’t let them go. He was not fooled.
@JFS
It’s clear, obviously you don’t have the intelligence to adequately communicate, failing miserably to answer my simple question: “What according to you is not correct what I have written about SP on this forum?”.
Instead you gave some weird, totally unrelated answer about quotes I made about ritviks.
Some living entities in the human form try a humanistic, third class and fake-rational approach in a futile attempt to corner others. Are you perhaps such a sentimentalistic “Rogers adept”?
@Guru Parampara dasa says: Ritviks have no devotional service…
Dear prabhus we got complaints from concerned Prabhupadanugas that all comments by Bh Jarek (160 comments), Guruparampara das (80 comments) and Raja Gopala das (100 comments) are simply a botheration to fool the innocent. So we decided that all these comments will be deleted. Any suggestion?
@Puranjana dasa
“So why does Guru Prampara want us to worship homosex in the holy dham as our acharyas,”
What is this utter nonsense? Are you perhaps permanently haunted by all kinds of crazy fantasies and neurotic thoughts?
Not only traumatised but also haunted. Bad, bad luck for you. Why don’t you consult a psychologer or a psychiatrist?
@EDITOR
Huh? It’s always positive to have communication, is it not? Why otherwise you want to have a forum?
@Pratyatosa Dasa
Don’t be such a crybaby. Ritviks, that’s you and your posse, are the “against people” so you simply can’t have loving devotion. Condensed grudge and blaspheme, that’s the only content of your tragical lives.
@”Don’t be such a crybaby. Ritviks, that’s you and your posse, are the “against people” so you simply can’t have loving devotion.”
Once more crux of the matter is that GPD presents himself as educated and familiar with ISKCON history. It is getting evident that this is not the case at all. GPD might have some understanding (hearsay) starting from 2009.
So this happens again and again that mentally deranged folks like GPD pretend to be knowledgeable and conversant with ISKCON history when meanwhile an army of 50 false GBC appointed gurus have the reputation of Prabhupada’s pure movement completely destroyed – with worldwide thousands of cheated devotees. So trolls like GPD are having no clue about the dimension of this meltdown. Present ISKCON status: No intelligent Westerner accepts initiation from present ISKCON gurus. Period.
There is no need to discuss anything further since all this is de facto over GPD’s head. He wasn’t there from 1977-2009, nobody told him and what he heard is rather prevaricated, fragmentary and insufficient to have a substantiated conversation based on facts.
In order to compensate their lack of knowledge newcomers like GPD always switch to name-calling profanity and insult. There is no need to extend this debate.
EDITOR says:
6. October 2013 at 8:27 am
@Guru Parampara dasa says: Ritviks have no devotional service…
Dear prabhus we got complaints from concerned Prabhupadanugas that all comments by Bh Jarek (160 comments), Guruparampara das (80 comments) and Raja Gopala das (100 comments) are simply a botheration to fool the innocent. So we decided that all these comments will be deleted. Any suggestion?
Mahesh: Srila Prabhupada has taught that a fool is glorified so long he does not speak. This shows EVERYONE that Guruparampara (Raja Gopala das) etc are EXPOSED. The comments can be kept to show that they are nonsense. BUT as a RULE there is no need for FURTHER accepting ANYONE on this forum who does NOT provide quotes from Srila Prabhupada’s books to back up his point. If they do not quote Srila Prabhupada: we reject them – simple as that. This should be our STANDARD for any debate.
@Matthijs Nijenhuis
Again you’re only talking from your very dusty crystal ball. Besides that, you aren’t able to bring any content.
So both in terms on factual info on my history as well as in terms of philosophical content you’re only a nitwit.
@Mahesh Raja
No problem Mahesh. But please, don’t fill miles with them since there are also the phenomenons of dry parroting and hiding behind quoting …
Guru Parampara dasa says:
6. October 2013 at 9:39 am
@Mahesh Raja
No problem Mahesh. But please, don’t fill miles with them since there are also the phenomenons of dry parroting and hiding behind quoting …
Mahesh: On the contrary, dry parrot is YOU:
Bg 2.25 P Contents of the Gita Summarized
Repetition of something is necessary in order that we understand the matter thoroughly, without error.
EDITOR says: So we decided that all these comments will be deleted. Any suggestion?
If you deleted them, then the replies would no longer make sense. Besides, I haven’t seen any evidence that there is any way to find old comments on this website. Neither Google nor Bing index them, and the “Search this website…” utility at the top of this very web page cannot even find them, even if you provide it with an exact, word-for-word quote! Therefore, all of the old comments, no matter how good they are, get buried, never to be seen again! 🙁
But I think that it’s become a little repetitious. “An empty barn is better than a barn full of naughty cows.”
Thanks Guru Parampara except I am not the person who said your acharyas are often found to be “engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children.” That is a direct quote from your guru parampara leader, spokesman, editor, position papers writer, etc. namely Jayadvaita swami. Your own lineage’s spokesman, for your own guru parampara, said that, … and so we are simply repeating what your guru parampara says.
I do not need medications, I am reading and then repeating what your parampara writer / editor / spokesman is saying.
That your guru parampara is often found to be engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children is also well known because its been a huge topic all over ISKCON since 1977, and many stories about these problems have been in the public newspapers.
Therefore, not only me, not only Jayadvaita, but the story of your gurus illict affairs and criminal behaviors — has been in the public newspapers? Are you saying all the millions of people who read about your parampara are not taking their medications, because your parampara is not guilty of these things? That means you are in need of medications. Sorry, your guru parampa and its lusty and criminal deviations is well known even to the mass of public, never mind us? ys pd
EDITOR says: So we decided that all these comments will be deleted. Any suggestion?
The name of this website is Prabhupadanugas.eu. If someone isn’t interested in being a Prabhupadanuga, or offends Prabhupada and his followers, can they not be blocked from the site? Otherwise if you want to get rid of an unwanted guest, stop feeding him.
Actually Guru Parampara my reply was a little subtle and requires calm intelligence to understand.
That I have shown that you are so willing to fabricate facts but that you also expect us to believe your statements about the Founder Acarya is not ‘weird’ nor ‘totally unrelated’. You don’t get to have it both ways.
In short you are untrustworthy, (you say you are straightforward but why have you avoided answering this question; “are you Raja Gopal”? What, you think we haven’t noticed how you suddenly forgot how a keyboard works when challenged in this way?)
Yep, way to go Guru Paramapara, I’m sure your guru maharaja must be proud. Either he has the same dishonest mentality and has approved your fabrications, or he has no idea you’re here representing him so badly? Which one is it Mr. Straightforward?
Yes Folks this is today’s Iskcon, bully-boys who spin the truth any which way and when exposed get nasty and resort to insult and belittling, (then they ban you and throw you out).
Now as I predicted with Raja Gopal you will simply continue to produce more of the same spin, insult, allegation and fabrication, (yawn). It’s no wonder everyone has grown tired of you and wants you gone.
Btw, when you say it’s okay to insult Puranjana because ‘he started it’ that sounds a little, well,… childish. Just saying.
JFS.
@Puranajan dasa
The guru parampara is strictly individual. Jayadvaita is no connection for me to the guru parampara. Whether or not he is bona fide I don’t know. And frankly speaking it is of no importance whatsoever for me what Jayadvaita’s position is.
Your guru is part of the GBC guru program, but he has no connection to the other gurus in his parampara? Then that is not a parampara, all the gurus in a parampara are linked. That means you do not even know what a parampara is, its a chain of persons linked together, that means all of them are connected. How can you use the name Guru Parampara, and say the other gurus in your parampara are not important? ys pd
To the Editor:
As the old saying goes, “give a man enough rope and he’s sure to hang himself”. By being allowed to speak the bullies and bluffers quickly reveal their true natures.
I am unfamiliar with the writings of Bhakta Jerek, (other than an apology I think he recently wrote) but I feel Guru Parampara and/or Raja Gopal have probably lost their right to continue due to fabrication of facts and uncontrolled insults.
We all know that Iskcon would never allow anyone who wasn’t in agreement with the party-line this kind of access to any Iskcon website, so the fact that these forums are open to everyone is remarkable, and a good thing. That said, if contributors like Guru Parampara refuse to play fair then maybe they should be given a time-out to think about their naughty behaviour. After all it is not their website, nor a website in which they feel philosophically aligned, and as such a little decorum while being allowed to put forth their view point probably isn’t too much to ask.
My two cents for what it’s worth.
JFS.
Dear Editor,
Please do not delete any of the remarks made by, the Gypso, Raja Gopal dasa and/or Guru Parampara dasa or a Bhakta Jarek or SG etc. because the replies given by various participants certainly would not make any sense in the event any of the comments are deleted.
From now on ward, my humble suggestion is that please only post the comments that have CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM to the Ritvik system of the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada which needs to be answered by any one. Otherwise, do not allow any posting by any one which are not constructive at all.
Hope it satisfies the readers.
OM TAT SAT.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Mahesh Raja says:
2. October 2013 at 4:40 pm
“ALL your points are DEFEATED IN DETAIL. You best at least READ
the following articles to get a GRASP of the subject of Ritvik”
SG — Defeat is when it is verified by an unbiased independent third party,
not that you make a rebuttal and simply declare defeat all by your lonesome
self, you who most of the time either misquote or give quotes not relevant
to the matter discussed followed by silly statements mixed with profanities.
That is why you are a fool, will always remain immature, will always be
governed by the modes of material nature just like Amar Puri and some
fellow ritviks. Being truthful and sincere seems to be not in the nature of
the these ritviks.
Learn to admit when you are wrong. Don’t be like a karmi politician. Death
is the final test for us all.
HARE KRSNA
The GBC guru program was defeated in 1979 when they said that despite Jayatirtha is taking drugs, is giving drugs to his inner circle of disciples, is offering LSD to his shalagram, is saying that LSD is “the feet dust of Radha,” and he is having illicit sex with followers,… never mind, he has to stay in the Vyasasana and be worshiped as “His Divine Grace Srila Jayatirtha Tirthapada.” All the karmis knew all along this is not what gurus are doing, no waiting requited, the karmis knew this was bogus all along. Guru Parampara even says that the other gurus in the parampara are not important, ummm, statements of the other acharyas in his parampara are not important, and may not be bona fide? They have defeated themselves. ys pd
Paramahamsa: […] “Why is it that even among the acaryas sometimes we find there is a difference of opinion?”
Prabhupada: They are not acaryas. They are not acaryas. There is no difference of understanding between acaryas. What Madhvacarya understands, we also understand. Suppose you are present also. So there is no difference. What Ramanujacarya understands, we also understand. What Caitanya Mahaprabhu understand, we also understand. So where is the difference? Difference should be that the fact that he is not acarya. As soon as he differs from the previous acaryas, that means he is not acarya. Otherwise there is full agreement between all the acaryas.
Evening Discussion
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
May 6, 1975, Perth
SG. how many times have you been challenged to your disbelieving and disobeying the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada ?
SG. you have never answered the questions I put it up to you with regard to Srila Prabhupada’s Quote you used it to offend the Ritviks systems of Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions and simply to defend your own misunderstanding of the point of view of Srila Prabhupada’s Ritvik system by concocting PRE / POST Smadhi during / after manifested life of Srila Prabhupada. Is Srila Prabhupada ALIVE or DEAD ?
What is the need of all these concocted material ideas of all sorts ?
Describe your problems as to why, where and what is illegitimate, and your personal reservations and doubts to accept the Ritivik system of Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions in His Spiritual Organization where Srila Prabhupada has not authorized any of His disciples to accept one’s own disciples in His Organization of Iskcon ?
I sincerely do hope that SG, you are going to address these issue at your end, if you truly mean it what you say in your own comments, ” Learn to admit when you are wrong. Don’t be like a karmi politician. Death is the final test for us all. ”
Lest it may prove the other way around you, SG, what you say in your own wordings ; ” That is why you are a fool, will always remain immature, will always be governed by the modes of material nature just like Amar Puri and some fellow ritviks. Being truthful and sincere seems to be not in the nature of
the these ritviks.”
This is being challenged to you, SG, for your disbelieving and disobeying Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions.
Hari BOL. OM TAT SAT.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Rukmini Ramana says:
7. October 2013 at 4:58 pm
Paramahamsa: […] “Why is it that even among the acaryas sometimes we find there is a difference of opinion?”
Prabhupada: They are not acaryas. They are not acaryas. There is no difference of understanding between acaryas. What Madhvacarya understands, we also understand. Suppose you are present also. So there is no difference. What Ramanujacarya understands, we also understand. What Caitanya Mahaprabhu understand, we also understand. So where is the difference? Difference should be that the fact that he is not acarya. As soon as he differs from the previous acaryas, that means he is not acarya. Otherwise there is full agreement between all the acaryas.
Evening Discussion
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
May 6, 1975, Perth
===========================
SG — Then by the above definition there cannot be such a thing as post
samadhi ritvik initiation the bogus ritualistic practice currently practiced
by the ritviks and claim to be his disciple. No previous acaryas or sadhus
practiced such a foolish idea and neither did Srila Prabhupada nor his spiritual master.
Srila Prabhupada — So where is the difference? Difference should be that
the fact that he is not acarya. As soon as he differs from the previous acaryas,
that means he is not acarya.
SG — One wonders if the goal of the ritviks is to make Srila Prabhupada
look foolish. These ritviks have poor realization. Accept the fact that you
are simply his followers and not his post samadhi ritvik initiated disciples.
There is no such thing.
HARE KRSNA.
In Conclusion:
Guru Parampara writes: “btw Please claim victory. That’s just further evidence of your madness.”
Since when does victory equate to madness? And where is this ‘evidence’ you speak of?
By your philosophy Prabhupada must have been mad to have claimed victory in the battle for the Juhu land, (stating that it was “a good fight”). Yuddhistira Maharaja was crazy when he accepted the throne of victory after the defeat of the Kuravas. And Lord Balarama must be ‘round the bend’ in His daily victory over the demons.
In defeat Guru Parampara you have forgotten that you entered into a Vaisnava debate wherein two parties strive to defeat one another with truth and logic, (actually Srila Prabhupada says the defeated party accepts the victor as his guru, ouch!)
So it’s curious that now in defeat you abruptly put a mundane spin on Vaisnava debate, concocting a Victory = Madness theory? Are you saying that every point you have ever made in debate wherein you feel you were the victor is ‘evidence’ of the extent of your own ‘madness’? Or is this madness charge applicable to others, but not Guru Parampara?
You say “please claim victory” but as the one in defeat victory is no longer yours to give away. It has already been taken from you! I requested you not to insult me but you chose to anyway. So yes I have happily claimed victory over you many times and I relish it’s sweet taste. Your attempts to intimidate, cyber bully, hoodwink and ‘spin’ have been thoroughly exposed by me, (along with your vanity).
JFS.
In reply to Rukmini Ramana SG says – “SG — Then by the above definition there cannot be such a thing as post samadhi ritvik initiation the bogus ritualistic practice currently practiced by the ritviks and claim to be his disciple. No previous acaryas or sadhus practiced such a foolish idea and neither did Srila Prabhupada nor his spiritual master.”
SG. where in the Scripture it says that appointment of Ritvik priest or a Brahman is prohibited ?
SG. Why are you concocting pre/post Samadhi of Ritvik Initiation system while the system was and is fully authorized by the Acaraya as per the Scripture during his presence and absence ?
SG. Where do you find the difference as Srila Prabhupada says in His quote which you are using to defend your concocted pre/post Samadhi conclusion ?
SG. Is your pre/post Samadhi conclusion based on the Scripture ?
IF you can not answer the above questions, then, please I beg respectfully from you to please STOP writing nonsense, baseless and useless CONCOCTED comments like your other associates, the Gypsy, Raja Gopala dasa and Guru Parampara dasa simply to cheat the people.
Hope it meets well to the readers.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
SG concludes with his own concocted remarks ; ” SG — One wonders if the goal of the ritviks is to make Srila Prabhupada look foolish. These ritviks have poor realization. Accept the fact that you are simply his followers and not his post samadhi ritvik initiated disciples. There is no such thing.”
If the above conclusion is your believe, then, you have no right to condemn and criticise Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions particularly when you are disbelieving and disobeying it altogether.
So, SG, who is making Srila Prabhupada look foolish ?
SG: Learn to admit when you are wrong. Don’t be like a karmi politician. Death
is the final test for us all.
Mahesh: Politician is exactly what YOU are. You are canvassing for the unholy BABOONS who you want to promote as Diksa guru by REPLACING Srila Prabhupada the BONAFIDE DIKSA GURU. This means YOU have a MOTIVE to be WORSHIPED yourself. Your UNHOLY SLAVERY MAKING BABOONS want to be worshiped as good as God AND SCREW MONEY this is ALL you have learnt: the art of being POLITICIAN.
SIMPLE THING like MEANING of DISCIPLE you EVADE the ACTUAL truth: ALL disciples in ISKCON are SRILA PRABHUPADA’S:
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
Would you be so kind as to enlighten us as to which part of ….
“I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and all the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually.”(Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968)
is difficult to understand?
“Guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya, ara na koriho mane asa. Don’t think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success.”
(28th January, 1977, Room Conversation)
Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple
— One who is accepting discipline from Srila Prabhupada is Srila Prabhupada’s disciple.
In ISKCON we are ALL being DISCIPLINED by Srila Prabhupada (we receive instructions (DISCIPLINE) FROM Srila Prabhupada’s books. Even the most basic discipline, 16 rounds of Hare Krishna Mantra and four Regulative Principles are coming FROM Srila Prabhupada. Common sense — if you ARE being disciplined BY Srila Prabhupada then it follows you ARE Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. How can it be otherwise?
The MEANING of the word “disciple”
Srila Prabhupada’s Morning Walk, March 8, 1976 in Mayapur:
Prabhupada: “Discipline… Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must… That should be uniform. Otherwise, sisya… sisya, the word sisya, it comes from the root, verb, sas-dhatu. sas. sas means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. sastra. sashtra means weapon, and sastra, scripture, and sisya… These things have come from the one root sas-dhatu. So sas-dhatu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that “Obedience is the first law of discipline,” or something. They say, “Obedience is the first law of discipline”? So I am right? “Obedience is…”? That is the…
Tamala Krsna: Yes, that’s more or less what it is.
Prabhupada: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. “Obedience is the first law of discipline.” So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. DISCIPLE MEANS ONE WHO FOLLOWS DISCIPLINE.”
Discipline comes from Srila Prabhupada. We are actually being disciplined by Srila Prabhupada. It is Srila Prabhupada who has given us the regulative principles of no meat, fish or eggs; no intoxication (including tea and coffee), no illicit sex, and no gambling. It is Srila Prabhupada who has made it a regulative principle for us to chant sixteen rounds on the beads HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE /HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.
Srila Prabhupada’s books contain all the instructions, the guidance required for us to get ourselves out of the clutches of the modes of material nature. In fact, Srila Prabhupada is personally present as his books.
Caitanya-caritamra, Adi 1, Text 35:
“There is NO DIFFERENCE between the spiritual masters instructions and the spiritual master himself.”
Since the instructions of the spiritual master and the spiritual master are not different, one can be the disciple of Srila Prabhupada by following his discipline and can be considered Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. Another point is he can be considered both direct disciple and not direct simultaneously, because Srila Prabhupada is still present in his instruction form (his books). The following example will illustrate the point.
Srila Krsnadasa kaviraja is the example of both direct and not direct disciple simultaneously. (THE PHILOSOPHY OF SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS AND DIFFERENCE).
Caitanya-caritamra, Adi 1:
“A direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami was Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The author of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, stands as the DIRECT DISCIPLE of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakishore dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self. Since we belong to this chain of disciplic succession from Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, this edition of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta will contain nothing newly manufactured by our tiny brains, but only remnants of food originally eaten by the Lord Himself.”
Caitanya-caritamra, Antya 19.102:
Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was not actually a direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami, but he FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS given by Srila Rupa Gosvami in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. He therefore ACTED ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTIONS of Rupa Gosvami and prayed in every chapter for his mercy.
Who is Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple?
Srila Prabhupada’s Morning Walk, June 13, 1976, Detroit:
Prabhupada: “Who is my disciple? First of all let him FOLLOW STRICTLY THE DISCIPLINED RULES.
Devotee (2): As long as one is following, then he is…
Prabhupada: Then he is all right.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Bhaktijana, September 21, 1972:
“You do not require to worry as I shall never leave you, you are my disciple and I am your spiritual master, so there is no question, AS LONG AS you follow my instructions, that I shall ever leave you. Just remember under all circumstances to chant sixteen rounds of japa daily, offer your prasadam to Krsna, and do all of the things which you already know, as you are senior disciple. These things will protect you under all conditions, without any doubt.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Madhudvisa, November 7, 1975:
“SO LONG AS one follows the principles, he continues to be my disciple.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Tusta Krsna, November 9, 1975:
“SO LONG AS one continues to follow the rules and regulations, he continues to be my disciple wherever he may be.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter, July 9, 1969:
“Out of the ten kinds of offenses, the number one offense is to disobey the orders of the Spiritual Master. The instructions given to the disciple by the Spiritual Master at the time of initiation should be strictly followed. That will make one advance to the spiritual path. But if one deliberately defies such instructions, then his advancement is hampered from the very beginning. THIS DEFYING MEANS TO DISCONNECT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. AND ANYONE WHO DEFIES AND THEREFORE DISCONNECTS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER can hardly expect the assistance of the Spiritual Master life after life.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Cidananda, November 25, 1973:
“Please always try to REMEMBER ME BY MY TEACHINGS AND WE SHALL ALWAYS BE TOGETHER. Just like I have written in the first publications of Srimad-Bhagavatam, “The spiritual Master lives forever by His divine instruction and the disciple lives with him.”, because I have always served my Guru Maharaja and followed His teachings I am now even never separated from Him. Sometimes Maya may come and try to interfere but we must not falter, we must always follow the chalked out path layed down by the great acharya’s and in the end you will see.”
Who is NOT Srila Prabhupada’s disciple?
Initiation does not bear any meaning
Srila Prabhupada Letter, January 11, 1970:
“Regarding your question of an initiated person falling prey to the maya, the answer is that so long we are in this material world, there is always chance of being spoiled by Maya, so we must stick with vow to the Lotus Feet of Krishna. An initiated devotee is given the chance for becoming free from the entanglement of karma wheel. Initiated means beginning, not perfection. The Spiritual Master’s business is to guide him to the perfectional point. But if one does not strictly follow the guidance of a bonafide Spiritual Master HIS INITIATION DOES NOT BEAR ANY MEANING. The initiation performance is an agreement by the disciples to abide by the order of the Spiritual Master. Therefore, if the Spiritual Master is bonafide and the disciple is serious to abide by His order, then the success is sure.”
Otherwise they are NOT my disciples
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Raja Laksmi, February 17, 1976:
“My advise is always chant 16 rounds minimum and follow the four regulative principles. All of my disciples must agree on this point OTHERWISE THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLES.”
Against the principle
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dhrstaketu, July 17, 1976:
“Unless absolutely necessary, one should keep head shaven and not allow the hair to grow long. If absolutely necessary, one can dress like an American gentleman, with short hair, but long hair is prohibited. The reason that one with long hair is not my disciple is because he is AGAINST THE PRINCIPLE. Unless absolutely necessary one should keep hair short, and if necessary one can dress like an American gentleman with short hair. It is not expected that everyone will join. For that reason we can’t compromise. The tendency is there to be hippy. When the acaryas are seen with beard, that is during Caturmasya, July-September. If observed strictly there is not simply a beard. There are so many rules and regulations. One can’t eat a variety of foods. Only kitri prepared and poured on the floor, and then licked up. There are so many other rules also. THAT IS NOT ALWAYS THAT THEY KEPT BEARD.”
There are many so-called Prabhupada disciples – but only in name. They in fact decline to follow Srila Prabhupada’s discipline hence they are Srila Prabhupada disciples in name only. They show superficial lip service to Srila Prabhupada.
Disciple in name only
Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk, New York, July 10, 1976:
Prabhupada: And the Bon Maharaja is his follower. HE’S IN NAME a disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, BUT HE’S A SERVANT OF Vivekananda.
Tamala Krsna: He’s very similar to him.
Prabhupada: He’s a great appreciator of Vivekananda. He has put in his curriculum Vivekananda philosophy, Gandhi philosophy. Rascal, what philosophy they have got?
STEALING SRILA PRABHUPADA’S DISCIPLES, HIS PROPERTIES, FOR ONESELF (BECOMING SELF MADE GURU-BY BOGUS GBC APPOINTMENT OF 2/3 MAJORITY VOTES) HAS GRAVE CONSEQUENCES:
Krsna Book, Chapter 64 – The Story of King Nrga:
At this time, Lord Krsna was present among His relatives who were members of the ksatriya class. To teach them through the exemplary character of King Nrga, He said, “Even though a ksatriya king may be as powerful as fire, it is not possible for him to usurp the property of a brahmana and utilize it for his own purpose. If this is so, how can ordinary kings, who falsely think of themselves as the most powerful beings within the material world, usurp a brahmana’s property? I do not think that taking poison is as dangerous as taking a brahmana’s property. For ordinary poison there is treatment–one can be relieved from its effects; but if one drinks the poison of taking a brahmana’s property, there is no remedy for the mistake. THE PERFECT EXAMPLE IS KING NRGA. HE WAS VERY POWERFUL AND VERY PIOUS, BUT DUE TO THE SMALL MISTAKE OF UNKNOWINGLY USURPING A BRAHMANA’S COW, HE WAS CONDEMNED TO THE ABOMINABLE LIFE OF A LIZARD. Ordinary poison affects only those who drink it, and ordinary fire can be extinguished simply by pouring water on it; BUT THE ARANI FIRE IGNITED BY THE SPIRITUAL POTENCY OF A BRAHMANA CAN BURN TO ASHES THE WHOLE FAMILY OF A PERSON WHO PROVOKES SUCH A BRAHMANA.” (Formerly, the brahmanas used to ignite the fire of sacrifice not with matches or any other external fire but with their powerful mantras, called arani.) “IF SOMEONE EVEN TOUCHES A BRAHMANA’S PROPERTY, HE IS RUINED FOR THREE GENERATIONS. HOWEVER, IF A BRAHMANA’S PROPERTY IS FORCIBLY TAKEN AWAY, THE TAKER’S FAMILY FOR TEN GENERATIONS BEFORE HIM AND TEN GENERATIONS AFTER HIM WILL BECOME SUBJECT TO RUINATION. On the other hand, if someone becomes a Vaisnava, or devotee of the Lord, ten generations of his family before his birth and ten generations after will become liberated.”
Lord Krsna continued: “If some foolish king who is puffed up by his wealth, prestige and power wants to usurp a brahmana’s property, it should be understood that such a king is clearing his path to hell; he does not know how much he has to suffer for such unwise action. If someone takes away the property of a very liberal brahmana who is encumbered by a large dependent family, then such a usurper is put into the hell known as Kumbhipaka; not only is he put into this hell, but his family members also have to accept such a miserable condition of life. A PERSON WHO TAKES AWAY PROPERTY WHICH HAS EITHER BEEN AWARDED TO A BRAHMANA OR GIVEN AWAY BY HIM IS CONDEMNED TO LIVE FOR AT LEAST 60,000 YEARS AS MISERABLY AS AN INSECT IN STOOL. THEREFORE I INSTRUCT YOU, ALL MY BOYS AND RELATIVES PRESENT HERE, DO NOT, EVEN BY MISTAKE, TAKE THE POSSESSION OF A BRAHMANA AND THEREBY POLLUTE YOUR WHOLE FAMILY. IF SOMEONE EVEN WISHES TO POSSESS SUCH PROPERTY, LET ALONE ATTEMPTS TO TAKE IT AWAY BY FORCE, THE DURATION OF HIS LIFE WILL BE REDUCED. HE WILL BE DEFEATED BY HIS ENEMIES, AND AFTER BEING BEREFT OF HIS ROYAL POSITION, WHEN HE GIVES UP HIS BODY HE WILL BECOME A SERPENT. A SERPENT GIVES TROUBLE TO ALL OTHER LIVING ENTITIES. My dear boys and relatives, I therefore advise you that even if a brahmana becomes angry with you and calls you by ill names or curses you, still you should not retaliate. On the contrary, you should smile, tolerate him and offer your respects to the brahmana. You know very well that even I Myself offer My obeisances to the brahmanas with great respect three times daily. You should therefore follow My instruction and example. I shall not forgive anyone who does not follow them, and I shall punish him. You should learn from the example of King Nrga that even if someone unknowingly usurps the property of a brahmana, he is put into a miserable condition of life.”
It has been a common practice among Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers to steal Srila Prabhupada’s disciples by trickery. Sridhara Maharaja and Puri Maharaja are also known to have re-initiated Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. Narayana Maharaja is also a culprit in this deplorable un-Vaisnava, offensive, insulting conduct. This act proves they are conditioned souls.
From the letter below one can see that history repeats itself; because they are conditioned souls they ventured to initiate Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. Thus, they were caught out as Srila Prabhupada clearly says of the action: “SO IT IS DELIBERATE TRANSGRESSION OF VAISNAVA ETIQUETTES AND OTHERWISE A DELIBERATE INSULT TO ME. I DO NOT KNOW WHY HE HAS DONE LIKE THIS BUT NO VAISNAVA WILL APPROVE OF THIS OFFENSIVE ACTION.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Mukunda, March 26, 1968:
“In meantime, I have also received one letter which is very depressing from Hrsikesa. I understand that he has been induced by Bon Maharaja to be initiated by him for giving him shelter, and this foolish boy has accepted his inducement. This isn’t very happy news, and I have replied Hrsikesa’s letter in the following words, which please take note, and in the future, we shall be very cautious about them. “My Dear Hrsikesa, Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter of March 14, 1968, and I am greatly surprised. I AM GREATLY SURPRISED FOR BON MAHARAJA’S INITIATING YOU IN SPITE OF HIS KNOWING THAT YOU ARE ALREADY INITIATED BY ME. SO IT IS DELIBERATE TRANSGRESSION OF VAISNAVA ETIQUETTES AND OTHERWISE A DELIBERATE INSULT TO ME. I DO NOT KNOW WHY HE HAS DONE LIKE THIS BUT NO VAISNAVA WILL APPROVE OF THIS OFFENSIVE ACTION. I very much appreciate your acknowledgement of my service unto you and you will always have my blessings, BUT YOU MUST KNOW THAT YOU HAVE COMMITTEE. A GREAT BLUNDER. I do not wish to discuss on this point more elaborately now, but if you are desirous to know further about it, I shall be glad to give you more enlightenment. Mukunda is not here. He has gone to L.A. Hope you are well.” If Hrsikesa writes you letter I think you may avoid reply. I DO NOT APPROVE BOTH HRSIKESA’S AND BON MAHARAJA’S THIS OFFENSIVE ACTION. Hoping you are both well.”
In venturing to initiate Srila Prabhupada’s disciples —they could not even have understood the philosophy properly. As It is clearly stated: A DEVOTEE MUST HAVE ONLY ONE INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER BECAUSE IN THE SCRIPTURES ACCEPTANCE OF MORE THAN ONE IS ALWAYS FORBIDDEN. For them to Initiate Srila Prabhupada’s disciples they would be falling into a trap of REJECTING Srila Prabhupada as the Initiating Guru—DIRECT INSULT-committed BOTH by the so-called disciple of Srila Prabhupada and their conditioned soul “gurus”.
Caitanya-caritamra, Adi 1.35:
The Spiritual Masters
“The expert spiritual master knows well how to engage his disciple’s energy in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, and thus he engages a devotee in a specific devotional service according to his special tendency. A DEVOTEE MUST HAVE ONLY ONE INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER BECAUSE IN THE SCRIPTURES ACCEPTANCE OF MORE THAN ONE IS ALWAYS FORBIDDEN.”
ALL GLORIES TO OUR BONAFIDE JAGAT DIKSA
AND SIKSA GURU SRILA PRABHUPADA!
HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE
Man proposes god disposes, if he feel like it. Krishna consciousness is very easy and very difficult, no doubt. Without sukrti, good fortune and strong common sense working in the background, sraddha affectionate faith wont work her wonders. It is like a jar of honey – we can see the honey but if someone doesn’t remove the lid, how can they ever taste the nectar? In the holy dham all these wonderful transcendental pastimes of the Lord and his devotees are eternally going on, the honey is there, we just have to want it – laulyam. Also living on the surface of the holy dham are mosquitos but to taste the nectar we must dive deep into the waters of saranagati. Maya is always keeping some cover over the dham to protect the sincere, faithful and chaste practitioners and to deceive the cheaters so as you like dandabat pranams
braja bihari das