How to Totally Demolish Mayesvara dasa’s Bogus Flat-Earth Theory

How to Totally Demolish Mayesvara dasa’s Bogus Flat-Earth Theory

BY: MAYESVARA DASA
Jun 26, 2019 —IRELAND (SUN) —

The following is a reply to Rajasekhara dasa’s article, “Prabhupada’s Globular Earth“.

Has Mayesvara dasa finally seen the light after reading Rajasekhara dasa’s latest article? Sadly (for some), the author has not recanted his heretical beliefs, but by way of reply we would like to help Rajasekhara Prabhu’s cause by showing how to construct an argument that will totally demolish Mayesvara dasa’s bogus flat-Earth theory once and for all.

In our previous encounter with Rajasekhara Prabhu, the discussion opened with the endearingly titled: “Total Demolition of Mayesvara’s Bogus Flat-Earth Theory“. Being in no mood for compromise with infidels, Rajasekhara dasa’s hurled further thunderbolts in the form of papers such as “Flat Earth—Completely Flattened” and “Failure of Flat-Earth Fanaticism“. Steadfast in his resolve, Rajasekhara dasa remains undaunted by the opinion of some that his own arguments were demolished, flattened, and finished in the process. See here, here, and here.

In a recent article I happened to mention that Rajasekhara dasa had left the previous debate being unable to reply any further. Rajasekhara dasa informs us that this was not the case, and that he withdrew from the debate being unhappy with the editing of his articles at Sampradaya Sun. For the record, Rocana Prabhu also suggested changes to one of my own papers as he felt I had not presented Srila Prabhupada correctly. I was very happy for the constructive criticism, and made the appropriate changes. In any case, now that Rocana Prabhu has graciously returned Rajasekhara dasa to an edit-free platform, we look forward to Rajasekhara Prabhu’s reply to our previously unanswered contentions.

In his latest article Rajasekhara dasa has provided us with twenty-eight statements from Srila Prabhupada in which Prabhupada refers to the Earth in the conventional sense as a globe floating in space. For those following our papers on Sampradaya Sun, we have already discussed almost all of these statements in the light of Srimad Bhagavatam’s description of the Bhu-mandala, as well as the historical context in which Srila Prabhupada spoke of the Earth as a globe. For example, see here, here, and here.

Rajasekhara Prabhu perhaps believes that it is sufficient to simply repeat a list of statements without dealing with the numerous questions and contentions that we have raised in regards to understanding these statements in context. In any case, we welcome the opportunity to go through Srila Prabhupada’s statements once again. Indeed, on this occasion we would like to show our goodwill by helping Rajasekhara Prabhu construct these statements into an undefeatable argument that will establish his position as ISKCON’s undisputed saviour of the Earth-globe. Let us begin then with the first statement on the list:

STATEMENT ONE:

“In Vedic literature it is bhu-gola, jagad-andha. These words are there. We can see also it is round, jagad-andha. The universe is round. And Goloka. Or Bhu-gola. Bhu-gola, the earth is round. So in the Vedic literatures… Therefore their knowledge is also imperfect because they do not refer to the Vedic literatures. It is already there. Bhu-gola. Bhu means the earth; gola means round. It is already there. And the geography’s called, according to Sanskrit, it is called Bhu-gola. Long, long ago, before Galileo”. (Morning Walk, December 9, 1973, Los Angeles)

Here Srila Prabhupada makes an argument that long before Galileo, the rishis knew that the Earth was round because they used the name Bhu-gola (round Earth). Any loyal follower of Srila Prabhupada such as you, Rajasekhara Prabhu, will accept the above statement without question as proof that the Vedic Earth is indeed round like a globe, and not round like a circle as Mayesvara maintains; but for the sake of all those innocent devotees who have been contaminated by Mayesvara’s bogus flat-Earth theory it may be helpful if you can provide the references to the shape and size of Bhu-gola in question. You may recall Rajasekahara Prabhu, that in your previous encounter with Mayesvara dasa—whom your recognized straight away as ‘a most cunning and deceitful person’—he raised the objection that Bhu-gola is described by Sukadeva Goswami as being pancasat-koti-yojana (500 million miles in diameter).

pancasat-koti-ganitasya bhu-golasya (SB.5.20.38)

Notice Prabhu that the name Bhu-gola is invoked, and the measurement is given at 500 million miles in diameter. Now we know you were not able to address Mayesvara’s contention last time because nasty Rocana Prabhu at Sampradaya Sun was meddling with your brilliant articles and making undue editing changes that frankly amounted to blatant censorship; but now Rajasekhara Prabhu, it must be Sri Krishna’s divine arrangement that you have been provided a second opportunity to clarify the point. Yes, I know it’s a small detail, but the somewhat trifling discrepancy between a circular-Earth measured at 500 million miles in diameter, and a globular Earth measured at 8,000 miles in diameter, may cause some devotees to think that the Bhu-gola described by Sukadeva Goswami may be referring to something other than your beloved Earth-globe. I know you are a great scholar of Srimad Bhagavatam, but just to remind you that Sukadeva Goswami provides this measurement for the size of the Earth in reply to Pariksit Maharaja’s initial inquiry:

“King Pariksit said to Sukadeva Gosvami: O brahmana, you have already informed me that the radius of Bhu-mandala extends as far as the sun spreads its light and heat and as far as the moon and all the stars can be seen.

My dear Lord, the rolling wheels of Maharaja Priyavrata’s chariot created seven ditches, in which the seven oceans came into existence. Because of these seven oceans, Bhu-mandala is divided into seven islands. You have given a very general description of their measurement, names, and characteristics. Now I wish to know of them in detail. Kindly fulfill my desire.” (SB 5.16.1-2)

In response Sukadeva Goswami said:

bhu-golaka-visesham nama-rupa-mana-lakshanato vyakhyasyamah (SB 5.16.4)

Here Sukadeva Goswami says: “I shall tell you about the name (nama), the form/shape (rupa), the size (mana) and other features and characteristics (lakshanatah) of the Bhu-gola”. Sukadeva Goswami then goes on to describe the Earth (Bhu-gola) in a narration that covers ten chapters. Yes, I know you’ve read all that already Rajasekhara Prabhu; but I believe that your knowledge of the subject, as well as your liberal disposition in intellectual debate, will be displayed by acknowledging that Mayesvara dasa has indeed raised a valid objection, namely that the Bhu-gola mentioned by Srila Prabhupada is actually described in Srimad Bhagavatam as having a diameter of pancasat-koti-yojana (500 million miles) in diameter, and not 8,000 miles diameter which is the currently accepted size of the Earth globe. Having addressed one of your opponents strongest arguments, you can then assure everyone, that you, Rajasekhara dasa, have understood Srila Prabhupada correctly, and that the Bhu-gola is none other than the iconic Earth-globe as shown in the wonderful images from NASA, (and not the 500 million disc described by Sukadeva Goswami). All that is required my dear Prabhu, is to point the devotee community to the relevant Sanskrit verses in Srimad Bhagavatam where the size and shape of this Bhu-gola is described at 24,900 miles in circumference, round like a ball, and floating in space—something like this artists impression of the Earth I presume:

FAKE NASA EARTH – CGI – Computer Generated Image – Paintshop

Remember Prabhu, Mayesvara has cited verses from Srimad Bhagavatam and other Puranas that measure Bhu-gola at 500 million yojanas in diameter; now what you have to do is present the verses that measure Bhu-gola at 8,000 miles in diameter. Be careful Prabhu, not to cite verses that measure any of the islands of Bharata-varsha as 8,000 miles in diameter, because that, of course, would be a reference to Bharata-khanda, and not the Bhu-gola itself. We specifically want the measurement for Bhu-gola as that is the name invoked by Srila Prabhupada, and which you have presented as proof for the Earth globe idea.

Regarding the ball-shape of the Earth, you may wish to look over Mayesvara’s second reply to Danavir Goswami where he quotes numerous sources from the Puranas that purport to describe the Bhu-gola as round like a circle, and not round like a ball.

Yes, it would definitely be a good idea to refer to his sources, and point out where he is going wrong in his understanding.

I believe it was in Mayesvara’s first reply to Danavir Goswami that he also cited all those verses from numerous Puranas measuring the Bhu-gola at 4 billion miles in diameter.

He may have even quoted that very verse from Srimad Bhagavatam that measures the Bhu-gola at 4 billion miles: pancasat-koti-ganitasya bhu-golasya. It may have skipped your attention —he writes such long articles (as you mention). In any case, they have no effect on anyone—unlike your shorter articles that just stick to quoting Srila Prabhupada without the need for discussing context, contentions, or anything like that. Amazingly and fortunately, in the midst of all Mayesvara’s long boring papers with endless verses quoted from here and there, you somehow managed to spot your own good name. And to stop further defamation to your good self, as well as courageously coming back onto to the battlefield to save the devotee community from dangerous ideas from which there is ‘no redemption in this lifetime’—to quote your own words—you are now in a position once again (by the divine arrangement of Sri Krishna) to explain to everyone how the name Bhu-gola is a reference to our beloved Earth globe, and not a reference to some weird idea of the Earth being a 4 billion mile diameter circle.

Listen Prabhu, I have to go now and finish chanting my rounds; sorry that I can’t provide all the ammunition for your argument right now, but regarding the idea that Bhu-gola is a planet floating in space, you’ll also need to answer all of Mayesvara’s objections in this article: “Does The Earth Float in Space?“.

Yes, I know it’s a pain, but think of it as a labour of love to be able to neutralize all these speculations that are creating havoc in our understanding of reality.

And regarding the idea that Bharata-varsha, the Bhu-gola, and the Earth globe are all the same thing, he [Mayesvara dasa] also had this to say in reply to Danavir Goswami’s morphing of the two separate ideas into a single concept.

Yes, I know it’s a lot to consider, but that’s what you are dealing with. Your argument has to be fool-proof. Anyway let’s get the ball rolling by starting with your elaborate purport for that first quotation on your list—the one about Bhu-gola being our Earth globe! It’s easy; all you have to do is explain how Sukadeva Goswami’s description of the Bhu-gola is the same as our idea of what we think the description means. So we’ll grant that Mayesvara is right when he says that Sukadeva Goswami describes Bhu-gola as having a diameter of 4 billion miles, an 800,000 mile high golden mountain standing in the center, seven islands and oceans that measure 202,800,000 miles, an underground realm that goes down for 560,000 miles, and which is all held up by Ananta-sesha who resides below on the Garbhodaka ocean—all you have to do is explain how all of the above is the same thing as our beloved Bhu-gola Earth globe that floats around in dark space.

Oh Prabhu, one more thing, some devotees have been asking questions about Srila Prabhupada’s statement that you quoted as proof of the Earth globe. First Srila Prabhupada says that jagad-andha means round; then he says that Bhu-gola also means round. Now anda as we know means egg, and refers to the perfectly round shape of the universe as in the following verse: andakoso bahir ayam pancasat-koti-vistritah (SB 3.11.40). Here it compares the shape of the universe to the roundness of an egg (anda-kosah). Anda means egg—in this case a completely round egg since the entire universe is measured here at four billion miles (pancasat-koti) from top to bottom and from side to side. So yes, the universe is round like a ball as Srila Prabhupada says. The question is, if Bhu-gola is also round like a ball (as opposed to Mayesvara’s idea that it is circular), and since Bhu-gola is measured at 4 billion miles, then how does everything else fit in the universe? Mayesvara was arguing that since the entire universe is only 4 billion miles, then a four billion mile globe would take up all the space in the universe leaving no room for anything else. Mayesvara’s argument is that the flat disc shape of the Bhu-gola allows for space both above and below the Earth circle as in the following diagram which shows Bhu-gola to be round like a circle, not round like a globe:

Some devotees were inquiring about that as they had no answer to Mayesvara’s argument. I wasn’t sure how to answer that one, but I’m sure you do my dear Rajasekhara Prabhu. Indeed, I think there is no one else at this present time on the whole Earth-globe-Bhu-gola-planet that understands the situation as well as you do; indeed you alone are capable of properly singing your own glories:

Rajasekhara dasa: “Only those who faithfully follow in the footsteps of the previous Acharya are qualified to speak on the Bhagavatam. Not someone who opposes the vision of the Acharya and ridicules those who convey the Acharya’s vision to others. One must be empowered by the grace of the previous Acharya in order to receive the transcendental vision to perceive the secrets behind the mantras contained in the Fifth canto of Bhagavatam. Not only that, one must be strictly following the sadhana practices given by the Acharya and live a life free from all kinds of material attachment. Explanations on the Bhagavatam by unqualified men or armchair philosophers are of no value and can benefit no one. The most prominent feature of Danavir Goswami’s article is the fact that both Shrila Prabhupada and Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati share the same vision that the earth is a globe. Therefore it behooves the intelligent class of men to follow in the footsteps of the great Acharyas and reject the opinions of mental speculations, who must be shunned if one is going to make progress on the spiritual path Back to Godhead, which is entirely dependent on the mercy of the great Acharyas.

The Fifth Canto reveals a number of astronomical models that must be appreciated individually in order to comprehend the overall presentation of the Vedic cosmos. Although it is impossible for a neophyte reader to comprehend the deeper meanings of the Vedic mantras which are composed in the form of sutras that can convey multiple meanings in a single verse, the Bhagavatam does in fact contain verses that convey a model of the globular Earth, and besides the geocentric model with Sumeru at the centre, we also find a discussion on the heliocentric model. Only by following in the footsteps of the great Acharyas and imbibing their vision can such realizations of the Bhagavatam be obtained.

Regarding your view that you have emerged victorious from the debate with me is rather far fetched. On the contrary, as you are well aware, your numerous and somewhat voluminous presentations have completely failed to have any effect on the cosmologists at the TOVP. On the other hand, my articles not only created a massive groundswell of support for Shrila Prabhupada’s views on the globular Earth – which had not been properly presented previously – but most importantly, the cosmologists at the TOVP were reminded of Shrila Prabhupada’s vision and ‘low & behold’ introduced the globular Earth into one of their exhibits. The whole purpose of my articles on Sampradaya Sun was to convey the message to all concerned, that the TOVP presentation of the Vedic Cosmos must include the TOVP founder-acharya’s vision of a globular Earth; otherwise they are certainly destined for a catastrophic failure.”

Such eloquence! And without having to name yourself (which would be deemed a distasteful display of an over-inflated false ego), the reader naturally infers that you are that shinning example of virtue who is empowered to reveal the truth of Vedic cosmology. And, of course, by default, that Mayesvara is a bhogi. Brilliant! Truly the efficacy of daily chanting 16 attentive rounds of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra for several decades as has been proven by the manifestation of such humility in a sincere and worthy sadhaka such as your good self.

Now, once you have written your first reply to that most rascally of rascals, Mayesvara dasa, and sent it to Sampradaya Sun for the whole devotee community to see, we shall see then who is unable to reply. Haha! We’ll wipe the grin from his face alright. Having stunned Mayesvara with your unassailable logic, you can continue (as the bona fide representative of the disciplic succession) to give the purport and proper understanding to every one of those statements from Srila Prabhupada that’s on your list. One by one you can take all these Earth-globe statements, and by refuting all of Mayesvara’s contentions, you can turn them into an invincible attack on the bogus flat-Earth theory. Like here for example, you have quoted Srila Prabhupada:

“How much big the Varaha animal was to show that it can pick up the whole earth, earthly planet just like a ball. He cannot imagine such big animals.” (Philosophy Discussions on Charles Darwin)

Mayesvara just doesn’t get it! As you know, Mayesvara has quoted from all the shastra to show that Lord Varaha lifted the entire Bhu-mandala, and not an Earth globe as everyone supposed. I believe the paper was called “Did Lord Varaha Lift an Earth Globe?

He even quoted a final conversation from 1977 wherein Srila Prabhupada affirmed that Varaha indeed lifted the whole Bhu-mandala. But setting aside for the moment the fact that all the shastra describes Varaha lifting Bhu-mandala, and regardless of that one discussion wherein Srila Prabhupada affirms that Varaha indeed lifted the entire Bhu-mandala, you Rajasekhara Prabhu have presented your quote from Prabhupada saying that Lord Varaha lifted the Earthly planet ‘just like a ball’. And though you and I know that Mayesvara has misunderstood everything, he is such a clever speculator that he is bewildering the whole devotee community. So to get everyone back on track, it may be wise at this point to find the supporting shastra that actually describes Varaha lifting an earthly planet that is shaped ‘like a ball’ and measured at 24,900 miles, and not an Earth-circle that is measured at 4 billion miles (as Mayesvara falsely believes) .

But, so as not to be thought rude and uncivilized by others who can’t always discern people’s good, honourable, and genteel motives, it may be pertinent to address Mayesvara as ‘Mayesvara dasa’ rather than just ‘Mayesvara’, which may be construed by some as lacking a certain respect. In any case ‘Mayesvara’ refers to our Lord Sri Krishna, the Controller (Ishvara) of Illusion (Maya), who is full in bliss (ananda) and opulence (aisvarya) as in the following verse:

kahan ‘purnanandaisvarya’ krishna ‘mayesvara’ ( Sri Caitanya-caritamrita, Antya-lila, 5.126)

kahan—whereas; purna—full; ananda—bliss; aisvarya—opulences; krishna—Lord Krishna; maya-isvara—the master of the material energy;

Mayesvara ‘dasa‘ refers to a servant of Krishna, the Lord of Illusion. Yes we know Mayesvara is a servant of maya, rather than a servant of the Lord of Maya, and that it is against your principles to address an undeserving rascal as a ‘Prabhu’ or ‘servant of Krishna’, but my dear Rajasekhara Prabhu, whilst showing proper etiquette, it will be to your eternal glory to expose the blaggard, and thereby prevent ISKCON from falling into the abyss of bogus flat-Earth theory. Thus by addressing the good-for-nothing as ‘Mayesvara dasa‘, your gentility and culture will be maintained, and you will remain in the transcendental position—not allowing yourself to be dragged down to Mayesvara’s lower mode of nature. The fruit of ‘strictly following the sadhana practices given by the acharya’, and living a life ‘free of all material attachment’ will be exhibited by you always showing respect to others (even to a dog like Mayesvara) whilst never expecting respect in return.

And one last point Prabhu, as I really have to go. In your article you said:

“And furthermore, Mayesvara says the audience who hears about Shrila Prabhupada’s vision of the globular Earth are labeled as ‘unwitting’. How offensive and foolhardy you are to have made such a pompous and misguided statement”.

In all fairness Prabhu, I believe Mayesvara dasa was stating that the audience who hears‘your presentation’ of Srila Prabhupada’s vision of the globular Earth are an unwitting audience. I believe they would be regarded as unwitting because you have yet to address his specific objections to your presentation. But now all that can be clarified with your usual brilliant wit and candour, starting with a full explanation of how the name Bhu-gola comes to mean our beloved Earth globe floating in space. So now without further ado, and before any more damage is done by Mayesvara dasa, start working on that reply…

An imaginary Rajasekhara dasa: So I just keep sending back those all those quotes from Prabhupada. Right!

Rajasekhara dasa’s Vedic Cosmology Coach: Um, not quite Prabhu. In your reply you have to address Mayesvara dasa’s contention that the Bhu-gola is described as 4 billion miles in diameter, not 24,9000 miles in circumference; and that it described as circular like a ‘perfectly round lotus leaf’, ‘a bracelet’, ‘a wheel’, ‘a belt’, ‘the Sudarshan disc’, etc.—not globular like a ball. Got it?

An imaginary Rajasekhara dasa: Right, yeah, got it! So I Just keeping sending back all those quotes from Prabhupada?

Rajasekhara dasa’s Vedic Cosmology Coach: [making a gesture of palm to forehead whilst making long sighs]