This is my guru’s qualifications – how about yours?
by Damaghosa dasa
Now, suppose if you accept a wrong person as spiritual master, and if you, if he guides you wrongly, then your whole life is spoiled. So one has to accept a spiritual master whose guidance will make his life perfect
We have to select a guru by whose order we won’t make mistakes
March 2 1966 NY — Now, to take such guidance means the spiritual master should also be a very perfect man. Otherwise, how can he guide? …Therefore, one has to select a spiritual master whose order, carrying, you’ll not commit a mistake. You see? Now, suppose if you accept a wrong person as spiritual master, and if you, if he guides you wrongly, then your whole life is spoiled. So one has to accept a spiritual master whose guidance will make his life perfect. That is the relation between spiritual master and disciple. It is not a formality. It is a great responsibility both for the disciple and for the spiritual master. March 2 1966 NY
It is illegal to become a spiritual master if one is unable to deliver the disciple
In the process of devotional service, the first step is to take shelter of the spiritual master and then inquire from the spiritual master all about the process. This inquiry is essential for immunity to all kinds of offenses on the path of devotional service. Even if one is fixed in devotional service like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he must still inquire from the realized spiritual master all about this. In other words, the spiritual master must also be well versed and learned so that he may be able to answer all these inquiries from the devotees. Thus, one who is not well versed in the authorized scriptures and not able to answer all such relevant inquiries should not pose as a spiritual master for the matter of material gain. It is illegal to become a spiritual master if one is unable to deliver the disciple. SB 2.8.7 purport…
“Unless one is under the shelter of a realized spiritual master, his understanding of the Supreme is simply foolishness” quote from TLC
You cannot become guru unless you are agent to draw out the mercy water from the ocean of mercy of Kṛṣṇa. That is guru
Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, kṛṣṇa se tomāra, kṛṣṇa dite pāra: “Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura, Kṛṣṇa is your property. If you like, you can give
Therefore, guru must be authorized person, not that bhūmi-phala-guru(?). No. “I am guru,” no. You cannot become guru unless you are agent to draw out the mercy water from the ocean of mercy of Kṛṣṇa. That is guru. And therefore, a guru is not an ordinary person. He is the representative, bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, kṛṣṇa se tomāra, kṛṣṇa dite pāra: “Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura, Kṛṣṇa is your property. If you like, you can give.” Vedeṣu durlabhaṁ adurlabhaṁ ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33]. You cannot get Kṛṣṇa by studying Vedas. That is not possible. There is Kṛṣṇa in the Vedas, but you cannot pick up. It is not possible. But if you go to the Kṛṣṇa’s favorite person… Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. Kṛṣṇa’s very dear servant, confidential servant, is guru. Nobody can become guru unless he is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa.
Nov 30 1976 — Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-prāpti hoy yāhā haite. That is spiritual master, one who can give you Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa se tomāre, kṛṣṇa dite pāra, dhāi tava pāche pāche-Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. “Kṛṣṇa… I am seeking after Kṛṣṇa, Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura, my spiritual master. So Kṛṣṇa is your property.” Kṛṣṇa is not independent. He is the property of the devotee. Kṛṣṇa se tomāra, kṛṣṇa dite pāra, dhāi tava pāche pāche: “I am just following you, sir. Because Kṛṣṇa is your property, if you like, you can deliver: ‘Take it immediately.‘ ” So, it is not flattering; it is in the śāstras. Vedeṣu durlabha adurlabha ātmā-bhaktau. You cannot get Kṛṣṇa by studying all the Vedas. Vedeṣu durlabha. Durlabha means it is not possible. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi, jānāti tattvam [SB 10.14.29] Prasāda-leśa. Prasāda-leśa. One who has got little favor of Kṛṣṇa, he knows Kṛṣṇa-tattva. Yat-kāruṇya-kaṭākṣa-vaibhavavatāṁ gauram eva stumaḥ July 11 1976 NY
Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one’s own heart
As indicated here by the word manastaḥ, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devakī. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devakī not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by dīkṣā, initiation. Thus, the importance of initiation is mentioned here. Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one’s own heart. SB 10.2.18 purport...
“The Lord is all powerful, and by His grace His pure devotee can be as powerful as He may desire, and there is no limit to it.” (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.15.13, Purport)
“Śrīla Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura has sung that the devotees of Lord Caitanya are so powerful that each one of them can deliver a universe.”(Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 4.24.58, Purport)
“Pure devotees of the Lord are more powerful than the waters of the sacred river Ganges. One can derive spiritual benefit out of prolonged use of the Ganges waters. But one can be sanctified at once by the mercy of a pure devotee of the Lord.”(Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.1.15, Purport)
“The verdict of all revealed scriptures is that by even a moment’s association with a pure devotee, one can attain all success.” (Caitanya-caritāmṛta Madhya, 22.54)
“Kṛṣṇa is yours; you have the power to give Him to me. I am simply running behind you shouting, ‘Kṛṣṇa! Kṛṣṇa!'” (Ohe Vaiṣṇava Thākura, Verse 4)
“It is said that a single pure devotee of the Lord can deliver all the fallen souls of the world…” (Bhagavatam 2.8.5, Purport.)
And if we do not make the correct spiritual master choice, what’s the result? Judge by the result as it is said …
Follow bogus guru-you go to hell
SB 1.19.37 P The Appearance of Sukadeva Gosvami Unless one is perfectly anxious to inquire about the way of perfection, there is no necessity of approaching a spiritual master. A spiritual master is not a kind of decoration for a householder. Generally, a fashionable materialist engages a so-called spiritual master without any profit. The pseudo spiritual master flatters the so-called disciple, and thereby both the master and his ward go to hell without a doubt.
72-12-14.Letter: Tusta Krsna As for your next question, can only a few pure devotees deliver others, anyone, if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become spiritual master. But unless he on that platform he should not attempt it. Then both of them will to go to hell, like blind men leading the blind.
SB 6.7.14 Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati. Leaders who have fallen into ignorance and who mislead people by directing them to the path of destruction [as described in the previous verse] are, in effect, boarding a stone boat, and so too are those who blindly follow them. A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. Similarly, those who mislead people go to hell, and their followers go with them.
Srila Prabhupada…”So there must be faith, faith in the right person. Then it is all right…. Faith is required, but to the right person. Then it will be all right. You know that one barber is honest: then you can make your neck like this and he is with a sharpened razor. But you have faith that “He will not cut my throat; he will shave me.” This is faith. And if you do not know him and if you put your neck like this and if he is a rogue, he will cut your throat. That’s all. The same faith, if you put it to the right person, you become cleansed, shaved, and the same faith put in the wrong person—your throat is cut off. So, you must know where to put the faith. So, our Vedic injunction is: “Put your faith to the brahma-nistam, one who is God-realized”…. Otherwise there will be disaster. Right faith. [break] … (Morning Walk—November 26, 1975, New Delhi)
Madhya 22.153: PURPORT: Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says: rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti kabe hāma bujhaba se yugala pirīti.The sahajiyās’ understanding of the love affairs between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa is not bona fide because they do not follow the principles laid down by the six Gosvāmīs. Their illicit connection and their imitation of the dress of Rūpa Gosvāmī as well as their avoidance of the prescribed methods of revealed scriptures will lead them to the lowest regions of hell. These imitative sahajiyās are cheated and unfortunate. They are not equal to advanced devotees (paramahaṁsas). Debauchees and paramahaṁsas are not on the same level.
Madhya 19.160 purport — The unwanted creepers have been described by Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. He states that if one hears and chants without trying to give up offenses, one becomes materially attached to sense gratification. One may also desire freedom from material bondage like the Māyāvādīs, or one may become attached to the yoga-siddhis and desire wonderful yogic powers. If one is attached to wonderful material activities, one is called siddhi-lobhī, greedy for material perfection. One may also be victimized by diplomatic or crooked behavior, or one may associate with women for illicit sex. Others may make a show of devotional service like the prākṛta-sahajiyās, or one may try to support his philosophy by joining some caste or identifying himself with a certain dynasty, claiming a monopoly on spiritual advancement. Thus, with the support of family tradition, one may become a pseudo guru or so-called spiritual master.
Nice article. I would like to ask as would many others, who is being is asked “This is my guru’s qualifications – how about yours?” If disciples and followers of Srila Prabhupada are not being asked then the only one’s left are those with other gurus. Why would anyone be concerned with guru competition. Why not be concerned with just spreading Prabhupada’s teachings. Especially at this point in history. It is the OPEN and PUBLIC practicing of this philosophy that will garner followers while politely shaming the “other gurus”
Action always speaks louder than good words. That is what Srila Prabhupada came to the west to do.
Namaste,
I am happy to use the moniker Cigarette Sam as that’s what the 70s and 80s Melbourne devotees used to call me. One kind soul, instead of criticising me for smoking, lamented that I was missing out on valuable darshan by having to exit the temple room for a few quick puffs. He was right of course.
Can someone please help clear this up… perhaps Balaram Das who was the TP of Melbourne Mahaprabhu Mandir at the time? So does this article mean that all ZAS adhikaris have no status?
Back in the 80s I passed up the opportunity to be instanteously initiated with no test period by Charles Backus ie Bhavananda (also parading as Vishnupada) because I didn’t feel qualified, not having been observing the four regs and chanting the required number of rounds for 3 to 6 months which was the usual prerequisite. That didn’t stop a few of my mates though who didn’t observe Prabhupāda’s stipulated protocol and jumped the queue.
I am not criticising them as devotees, as I am all too aware of the etiquette of avoiding aparadhas. But I have had a falling out with one of them after I offended them by referring to Charles Backus as the poofter guru. In the 90s I went out with the female devotee whose earlier husband at the time (80s) sprung Fishnupad in a compromising position with the transport driver. So I know what I’m talking about..
Is it offensive to refer to these once highly-positioned devotees like Charles Backus as crooks and call them names or should I hold them in esteem because they achieved so much good work spreading harinama, had close association with Śrīla Prabhupāda and became elevated devotees? (Reading one of the previous post answers it makes sense to respect them but avoid association with them). There is no way I could ever consider myself on their level – regardless of their abominable actions – because my level of bhakti-yoga practice is even lower. Yet I find it hard to resolve the dilemma of them being saintly given their shocking behaviour.
The main difference with me as an unqualified jiva as I see it is that I don’t try to pass myself off as a devotee of any substance. I hate it when people pose as being Holy when clearly they’re not. Some hopeless losers not unlike myself become devotees because they are so overwhelmed by guilt from being so screwed up. I have known a few that “out of uniform” are much worse people than your average citizen – even devout atheists! Despite aham brahmasmi I know I’m just another bloke in the street. I don’t pretend to be no guru (please excuse the double negative – I used it for emphasis).
But as Jesus says, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone”. Shouldn’t we give Zonal Acharya System adhikaris the benefit of the doubt instead of condemning them as mongrels?
Ys Sam
हरे कृष्ण
The proof of Srila Prabhupada is the Topmost Guru is there in the 1972 edition of the Gita. That knowledge will not be available to those that Srila Prabhupada wants us all to reach. Unless it is taught. So comparing gurus then becomes a pundit discussion only.
“Now, suppose if you accept a wrong person as spiritual master, and if you, if he guides you wrongly, then your whole life is spoiled. So one has to accept a spiritual master whose guidance will make his life perfect”” So the best place to find a bona fide topmost spiritual master is in Srila Prabhupada’s 1972 edition of the Gita. That has already been agreed. Srila Prabhupada also agrees that is one of the many reasons that he compiled the Gita so that many others may find a bona fide guru.
Many of us still find it very odd that since May of 2019 there has only been one comment at the Gita link.
Odd that after 10 years of the Srila Prabhupada Gita Guide, indeed even the posted original Gita link not one senior disciple from anywhere in the world has written anything in support of Srila Prabhupada;s teachings in the Gita. The world needs it so why not give the world the knowledge that hopefully saved ourselves? Strange.
https://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=50257
Sasric discussions and arguments are very good for those already in the mix of this knowledge. But how does the average person engage in a discussion after reading this nice article? That will be very difficult especially without public .discussions with those leaders who are themselves qualified to teach.
So if we are really interested in revealing the truth about who is a qualified guru and we are interested in the welfare of those we focus our presentation on. Then why not show them the truth as presented in the Gita.Or are we just interested in our own ongoing devotee status quo?
Perhaps the question should be read as a statement. The Qualifications For A Bona fide Guru. Where? Bhagavad Gita As It Is https://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=50257
How to know your guru is in the Bhagavad Gita.
First you must read and study the 1972 edition of the Bhagavad Gita As It Is. The Gita is the essence of all Vedic knowledge.
If your guru does not in your heart measure up to the qualifications within the Gita then you must decide where you go from there. Therefore the truths there in set the standard for a Maha Bhagavat Pure devotee of Krsna who is The Supreme Personality of Godhead. Srila Prabhupada is non different from the Gita and the Introduction reveals Srila Prabhupada himself to the reader. The eternal connection can begin there.
Srila Prabhupada is The Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita As It Is 1972 edition. So introduce the people to Srila Prabhupada and watch the world transform.
Charles Dowson (Comment 2 December 2020 4.10 pm…3rd paragraph)
“Many of us still find it odd, that since May of 2019 there has only been one comment at the Gita link”
I do not intend to ‘downplay’ your efforts in presenting the ‘Gita Study Room’ but rather ‘analyse’ the reasons for the poor response, using the basic ‘design’ principal of “form follows function” (for your own, and for the benefit of others). I have worked for several years as a Graphic Designer after coming 2nd (at age 45) in a class of 20 somethings, who were, unlike myself all computer literate. My speciality is the conceptual design process, which if executed properly ‘eliminates all of the negative elements and accentuates all of the positive elements of the design process’
The world is made up of 2 main groups the Suras and the Asuras. There are 4 categories of Asuras that won’t take to Krishna Consciousness……..1) The grossly foolish 2) The lowest of mankind 3) Those who’s knowledge is stolen by illusion and 4) Those who partake in the atheistic nature of demons.
The 4 types of Suras the take to Krishna Consciousness are 1) The distressed 2) Those who are in need of money 3) Those who are inquisitive and 4) Those who are searching after knowledge of the absolute truth.
Srila Prabhupada’s program attracted both the Suras and the Asuras, and not a specific demographic such as 4) Those who are searching after knowledge of the absolute truth. This demographic is probably the smallest of all the 8 sub-groups as these are persons who are ‘intellectual, studious types who thrive on philosophy’. Charles Dowson maybe this type of persona but this is only a small percentage of the 2 groups Suras and Asuras. The phrase Atamanam Manyate Jagat (as I am thinking, I think everyone else is thinking) comes to mind and this can be a real pitfall for ‘misunderstanding one’s “customer base”
It is not necessarily a fault to chose such a small demographic (as this can be given some special attention and be very enlivening to those with that specific nature) and this is not a critique of Charles Dowson’s program as The Bhagavad Gita is our heart and soul but those of us who are very much into philosophy are very rare indeed this is why Srila Prabhupada “tricked us” (very nicely!) with the Sunday Feast as ‘food’ was the hook, the bait to ‘net’ us all into coming to the temple, writhing, yawning and stretching through the “Gita class” anxious and impatient for the ‘Main Event’………….PRASADAM!
Yes! unfortunately those in the ‘beginning stages’ such as Sunday feasters have virtually no appreciation of Bhagavad Gita so this appreciation only comes with many years of devotional service and surrender to His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Now, with the attraction of “newcomers” would they have got MORE person to come to the temple with flyers that read ” Gita Sunday School” rather than “Sunday Feast?”…..I doubt it!
My Idea of a semi rural plan for a devotee community with 90% private space (devotees only) and 10% public space (Vedic Museum (dioramas), gardens, al fresco restaurant, mini farm-yard, maze, stage etc etc) has also not gotten much interest either, but would require at least several dedicated persons to make it happen, but it is based on sound design principals nonetheless. With a ‘Vedic Diorama Museum’ concept (which has unique architecturally designed building (can be done in a very large farm shed!) and interchangeable dioramas (in wall, glass cases) which can be ‘changed’ (like cassettes) in minutes. Museums attract many visitors, so the demographic is very large and many persons can be engaged in this way. We have to get back to the rural life as the city is now unliveable and food shortages on the horizon, this will have to happen in the next few years.
I know it is a frustrating process as I have many things I myself have conceptualised (and to execute on a shoestring) “just waiting to go” that have already been ‘worked through’ but one thing is for certain, If whatever program we try starts to gain many followers, the demonic overlords will try to shut you down, frame you, ruin you financially or even kill you, that is a fact!…..this is why large rural communities are important now! as group we can withstand the demons assaults whereas individually were easy to ”pick off!”
Bhagavad Gita (and Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavatam, Chaitanya Charitamrita etc etc) helps us understand the ‘internal and the external’ demonic influences. Some think that ALL of the demonic elements are INTERNAL and so DON’T RECOGNISE THE EXTERNAL DEMONIC INFLUENCES. The external demonic oppressors are now stronger than ever and it is going to be hell living in the cities (lockups, masks, tagged, tracked and monitored!) it’s slowly becoming a nightmare, with total economic collapse imminent!
Defeating our internal demons is one thing but the external ones remain an increasing, more powerful threat by the day so this is the major problem!